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Would Grosjean learn from another ban?


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194 replies to this topic

Poll: Would it change anything if he was banned again? (292 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think he should receive another ban?

  1. Yes (114 votes [39.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.18%

  2. No (177 votes [60.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.82%

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#51 Yhamm

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:53

You can't give someone a grid penalty or a stop and go penalty after you have given them a race ban for the same ****ing thing. Also he is an adult Formula One professional race driver, not a child in a classroom for ****s sake. :down:

you learn at something by doing it more, not by doing it less
that is why a ban is never a good idea in the first place
now if it is done on purpose, it's a different matter, but it's not the case here

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#52 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:53

He wont 'learn' from a ban..... but geez i'd like to see him cop one.

#53 King Six

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:56

you learn at something by doing it more, not by doing it less
that is why a ban is never a good idea in the first place
now if it is done on purpose, it's a different matter, but it's not the case here

Fair enough. I just think 8 out of 14 times is more than enough...

Edited by King Six, 07 October 2012 - 11:56.


#54 Oracle

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:59

There wouod lot less incidents like this if they would ban all the other cars on the track.

#55 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:11

I wouldn't keep him at Lotus next year. Put Kobayashi in there.

Sure, that would help Lotus move forward.... :stoned:

#56 Boxerevo

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:20

Today mistake was dumb again.

His lack of awareness... he didn't think Webber could loss grip there and just went full throttle like he was racing alone on simulation. :eek:

Troublesome.

Edited by Boxerevo, 07 October 2012 - 12:21.


#57 BigWicks

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:27

It's scary how bad he is at judging situations and closing speeds

#58 Raziel

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:27

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#59 Starish

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:27

Sure, that would help Lotus move forward.... :stoned:

It could, but I'm all for Grosjean staying.

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#60 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:29

It could, but I'm all for Grosjean staying.

No it couldn't. At least Grosjean is consistent when he's not making errors. He's there in the top ten at every race. Kobayashi is too inconsistent to be good enough for a top team. If Lotus decides to drop Grosjean, which I see highly unlikely as he's French and has Total and Boullier's support, they'll be looking for a more consistent guy I think.

#61 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:31

Can't vote in the poll, as you ask 2 different questions but only give us 1 question to answer.

#62 Icicle

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:44

Grosjean is one lucky sob. Imagine how things would have been if it was the other Redbull car receiving the punt.

#63 jeze

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:47

Time to revoke the license. NOW.

#64 GAZF1nut

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:48

This incident sort of reminds me of the first lap incidents that normally occur in the F1 game, when I'm driving :p .

#65 fieraku

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:17

Thats a very outdated way of looking at things, try reading "Overdrive: F1 In The Zone", mind management in any competitive environment is crucial, to say you just need to toughen up etc is very naive.

What is this mind management rubbish,he simply doesn't have what it takes.And all the support in the world won't inject some new skill or talent. He has the instincts of a sloth.


I say take his license before he kills someone.

#66 glorius&victorius

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:21

the only way he will learn: racing under probation from Korea onwards... for six races under probation... if he f***s up (ruled by stewards as his fault) he gets banned for 6 consecutive races. the racing under probation expires

other option: let him start the next 6 races from the pit.

Edited by glorius&victorius, 07 October 2012 - 14:23.


#67 Alx09

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:26

Nah. Not another ban.

I really think this incident made him realize that he is living on the edge here. I don't think we will see more incidents from him for a while.

If he does something again, then... I wonder what will happen.

#68 Seanspeed

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:31

It's scary how bad he is at judging situations and closing speeds

The mistake he made today was a pretty easy one to make I think. Webber was surprisingly slow right there.

#69 schumimercamg

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:31

He could do with a bit of time playing f1 2012 online and trying to involve the other nutters on there. F1 starts with decent drivers would become a piece of piss.

#70 SpaMaster

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:53

No, he does not need a ban to learn. I think he is trying to be extra cautious. When I watched the replay, I felt like he was focusing on Perez with extra care to avoid crashing with him because it was such a long high speed corner, and I think he was surprised by having to brake so suddenly for Webber (Was Webber fighting with Vettel or Kobayashi by any chance at that time?) He also mentions something like that in his interview. I think he was a bit overcautious and nervous in this case. He does not need any race ban because he has much bigger pressures from the team to worry about. I think he can be better once he gets through this period.

Edited by SpaMaster, 07 October 2012 - 14:57.


#71 KateLM

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:55

He won't learn from a ban, but since when was a ban meant to be a learning exercise?

Most worrying is whether he can actually learn or not. Regardless of what you think of Maldonado, the things he does are easy to fix - he just needs to chill out and control his aggression. But with Grosjean there doesn't seem to be anything to his accidents other than fundamental clumsiness and bad instincts - which can't be sorted out with just a bit of driver coaching.

What he did today, whilst stupid, wasn't as bad as the fact that the incidents are accumulating. To be honest the mental ramifications are probably much worse for him than anything the FIA could throw at him. For it to happen again after the ban will have knocked his confidence in a big way, and he's not going to be terribly popular within the GPDA. Or even within his own team, for that matter.

#72 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:56

No, Lotus needs to put him on the sidelines for the remainder of the season. Then work with him over the winter, possibly involving a former F1 driver as a mental coach. Much like Alex Wurz is doing at Williams.


Well, ge's doing wonders with Maldonado, isn't he.

#73 Seanspeed

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:57

Was Webber fighting with Vettel or Kobayashi by any chance at that time?

No. It was a bit strange.

#74 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:58

I'm amazed if Lotus offer him a contract. He is Boullier's pet, but he is a horrible racing driver.


That's a laod of bull. He has been very incident prone this year. But he is not a horrible racing driver.

#75 KavB

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:00

Funnily enough, he is more likely to learn racecraft by doing more starts. I don't think a ban would do much, I'm sure his seat is already under threat.

#76 my_own_shadow

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:00

Grosjean just need more practice with F1 car. And that is one more reason why the tests throughout the season should be allowed.

#77 Clatter

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:01

The mistake he made today was a pretty easy one to make I think. Webber was surprisingly slow right there.


Your being too kind. It's typical first corner stuff where they have to take the corner slower than they would once the gaps have opened up as the battles ahead will block your path. Webber said he had to slow down to match the cars ahead of him, and that's exactly what grosjean should have done as well.

I think Lotus should consider starting him from the pitlane for the next few races.

#78 Tardis40

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:29

Grosjean looked good in GP2 but has suffered in both of his stints in F1. He's had ample opportunity and hasn't been able to overcome his problem. He has already had a significant effect on this seasons championship. He should be removed for the good of the other teams and drivers.

It's unfortunate because he appears to have talent, but the top level of motorsport is too quick for him. This can be seen in many other sports where an athlete excels at the top minor league level but fails when brought up to the big time because of the increased speed of the game. There are other racing series he can try his hand at.



#79 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:36

Your being too kind. It's typical first corner stuff where they have to take the corner slower than they would once the gaps have opened up as the battles ahead will block your path. Webber said he had to slow down to match the cars ahead of him, and that's exactly what grosjean should have done as well.

I think Lotus should consider starting him from the pitlane for the next few races.


Yet if I look at the replay the cars in front are not slowing down so much.

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#80 fisssssi

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:38

Put him in a slower car, a Torro Rosso or Caterham or something. Just so he can't qualify so damn high all the time and might learn something racing with backmarkers at the starts.

He shouldn't be up there with the title challengers ruining their races all the time.

#81 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:38

Grosjean looked good in GP2 but has suffered in both of his stints in F1. He's had ample opportunity and hasn't been able to overcome his problem. He has already had a significant effect on this seasons championship. He should be removed for the good of the other teams and drivers.

It's unfortunate because he appears to have talent, but the top level of motorsport is too quick for him. This can be seen in many other sports where an athlete excels at the top minor league level but fails when brought up to the big time because of the increased speed of the game. There are other racing series he can try his hand at.


This comment is just ignorant. F1 is not too quick for him. Look at the lap times. Also the starts are much more hectic at GP2.

#82 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:41

Put him in a slower car, a Torro Rosso or Caterham or something. Just so he can't qualify so damn high all the time and might learn something racing with backmarkers at the starts.

He shouldn't be up there with the title challengers ruining their races all the time.


Really? How many races has he ruined for the title challengers. Two is what I count. So maybe the "all the time" comment is a bit off?

#83 Myrvold

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:43

No, he wouldn't learn. But still. Two or Three-race ban should be in place.

#84 fisssssi

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:44

Really? How many races has he ruined for the title challengers. Two is what I count. So maybe the "all the time" comment is a bit off?


Maybe, but it's often enough for the commentators, drivers and everyone in the forum to start questioning his ability.

There aren't many rookie drivers who jump straight into front-running cars. This is why.

#85 fisssssi

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:46

And when was the last time a 10-second stop-go penalty was given out? Even the stewards are over it.

#86 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:46

Grosjean just need more practice with F1 car. And that is one more reason why the tests throughout the season should be allowed.


He needs more practice under race conditions, preferably not in F1. Testing is absolutely nothing to do with racing.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 07 October 2012 - 15:46.


#87 Jejking

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:46

This comment is just ignorant. F1 is not too quick for him. Look at the lap times. Also the starts are much more hectic at GP2.

True. And he HAS a nice dose of speed. But I think it's the F1 sharkish environment that makes him go trippy and wanting to overperform. He's a nice guy really but in the mental area he's not so strong and that reflects in his behaviour ontrack.

#88 johnmhinds

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:49

Maybe, but it's often enough for the commentators, drivers and everyone in the forum to start questioning his ability.

There aren't many rookie drivers who jump straight into front-running cars. This is why.


Grosjean isn't a rookie driver, he has won championships in almost every race series he has competed in.

If that's any barometer of driver talent he is one of the most qualified guys on the grid.

Edited by johnmhinds, 07 October 2012 - 15:50.


#89 Reinmuster

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:52

Its time to put someone experience into Romain's car. De la rosa would be good.

#90 fisssssi

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:55

Grosjean isn't a rookie driver, he has won championships in almost every race series he has competed in.


He's a rookie in F1, just like they all were at some stage. It doesn't matter what he's done elsewhere.

Japan was his 21st grand prix, so he's only just done a season's worth of races.

#91 King Six

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:55

No word from anyone yet, I'm assuming the FIA are content with the 10 second stop and go penalty, which is rather incredible. I know it was 'only' Webber, but that's abit of a farce. Is it only when he takes out Alonso that anyone takes notice?

I think someone needs to remind the FIA of something called the World Constructors Championship, and how Grosjean has put a large impact on that at the top by taking out Webber who qualified 2nd.

Edited by King Six, 07 October 2012 - 15:55.


#92 CF22

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:57

Next on Grosjean's list: Vettel. Oh, I forgot Renault doesn't want that.

#93 djparky

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 15:59

oh dear- another first lap crash...I don't understand why this is happening- he did GP2 last year and never had these problems.

#94 Dolph

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:01

No word from anyone yet, I'm assuming the FIA are content with the 10 second stop and go penalty, which is rather incredible. I know it was 'only' Webber, but that's abit of a farce. Is it only when he takes out Alonso that anyone takes notice?

I think someone needs to remind the FIA of something called the World Constructors Championship, and how Grosjean has put a large impact on that at the top by taking out Webber who qualified 2nd.


I think the softening factor here is that it happened at the start. If it had happened in the race it would have been 5 place grid drop. THe hardening factor here was that it was Grosjean again.. Senna just got a drivethrough.

#95 johnmhinds

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:05

He's a rookie in F1, just like they all were at some stage. It doesn't matter what he's done elsewhere.

Japan was his 21st grand prix, so he's only just done a season's worth of races.


Well there are people overreacting in this thread saying he needs to drop back and practice more in a lower formula.

Which seems to be a completely pointless thing to do to a guy who has already won every lower series, he is more than ready for F1, he just needs to get over this hurdle of his F1 race starts.

#96 OSX

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:06

James Allen:

"Today’s incident shows that either he has not learned or he has some in-built problem when it comes to the instinctive phase of the racing driver’s art – the chaotic race starts.

Because race starts are an instinctive moment, many ex-drivers in the paddock argue that this is not something that can be trained into him."

http://www.jamesalle...start-incident/

#97 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:10

JA got it spot on. After the first 2/3 incidents, yes, it's fair to say he needs more time. After 7 your time is up.

#98 garoidb

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:11

Well there are people overreacting in this thread saying he needs to drop back and practice more in a lower formula.

Which seems to be a completely pointless thing to do to a guy who has already won every lower series, he is more than ready for F1, he just needs to get over this hurdle of his F1 race starts.


James Allen:

"Today’s incident shows that either he has not learned or he has some in-built problem when it comes to the instinctive phase of the racing driver’s art – the chaotic race starts.

Because race starts are an instinctive moment, many ex-drivers in the paddock argue that this is not something that can be trained into him."

http://www.jamesalle...start-incident/


Perhaps this all points to a deficiency in the role of the feeder series in training/filtering drivers for F1. As I mentioned a few posts back, the reverse grid in GP2 seems like it would address this, but for some reason it has not.




#99 Laster

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:40

Will Grosjean learn from a race ban? No. Drivers learn from experience. This wasn't a life threatening crash, it was a silly crash, a misjudgement, something that either deserved the 10 sec stop go or a 10 place grid demotion for the next race. Yes he keeps making these mistakes but he's not gonna learn if he isn't there to experience the opening lap. Keep him racing, get the kid some experience. He's fast, he's got the talent. Just not any intuition when regarding other drivers behaviour on an opening lap. He'll learn, with time.

Remember he's a rookie.

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#100 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:54

His instinct has proven to be consistently wrong though. When driving close to someone's gearbox they are your number one focus and its your primary aim to not go into the back of them. Nothing should come in the way of this. If he hasn't got the presence of mind to process this he shouldn't be in F1.