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Would Grosjean learn from another ban?


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Poll: Would it change anything if he was banned again? (292 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think he should receive another ban?

  1. Yes (114 votes [39.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.18%

  2. No (177 votes [60.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.82%

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#151 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:07

I think that they should institute a points system for poor driving. And before you get your panties in a wad, I haven't spent too much time considering the point structure I'm putting forth. It is just an example. Speeding in pit lane, 1 point. Not slowing in yellow flag zone, 2 points. Causing a crash 5 points, etc. 8 points gets you a drive through, 12 gets a race ban. 15 gets a two race ban. 20 gets your super license revoked for the rest of the year, 2 consecutive years with 20 points nets a lifetime ban.

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#152 jrg19

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:10

I just realised how stupid this poll is. First you ask if he would learn from another ban. Then you ask if he should receive another ban. Those are two entirely different questions.

Do I think he deserves a ban? Yes.

Would he learn from it? No.

I think this is how most people have voted, and now it looks like everyone doesn't want Grosjean to be punished. :/


When i created the pole I thought id wrote in two pole questions but it didnt work, and it doesnt allow you to edit or go back after.

So i figured people would vote and explain an answer to the first question.

#153 Tombstone

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:51

The question doesn't really match the thread title.

Does he deserve another ban? Yes

Will he learn from it? I doubt it.

#154 Prost1997T

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 00:51

Grosjean clearly has the pace; this reminds me a bit of Ralf Schumacher's early 1998 season. That driver did change very nicely for 1999.


You forgot 1997. At least Grosjean didn't move over on someone at 200mph...


Edited by Prost1997T, 09 October 2012 - 00:51.


#155 BigCHrome

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:09

No ban, he just needs the experience. Though Lotus management needs to give him an ultimatum - either fix the first lap issues or you get the boot.

#156 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:25

Someone taking Webber's line on the 2nd-53rd laps might catch someone off guard, but if a driver is caught off guard by that on the first lap, there is a serious problem. Webber didn't cut him off or close the door on him. On the first corner (or set of corners) on the first lap, every driver isn't on the racing line, and aren't all running the same speed. Running into someone from behind while under breaking is one thing, but accelerating into the back of another car shows a complete lack of awareness of one's surroundings.

Completely opposite. Its the first lap where unexpected moves catch people out most. Everybody is jostling for position. You cant expect that the entire field behind you is 100% concentrated on what you and only you are doing. If it was the 53rd lap, yes, it would be completely different as Grosjean would have been singled-out on what Webber was doing. Seriously, you do something a bit out-of-place at the start of the race and you put yourself at risk of getting hit. I've seen it happen so many times and I've experienced it happening even in games with other experienced racers.

It was a bad mistake considering all his others, but on its own, this one thing doesn't seem that bash-worthy to me.

#157 ViMaMo

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:30

:up: Was thinking the same thing. Raik. & Koba would be a pretty good team I think.



Koba deserves it. :up:

#158 MattPete

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:40

He has the speed but not the race-craft and spatial awareness.



In the meantime, Kobayashi has the speed, race-craft, and spatial awareness, but may be out of a seat. WTF?

#159 Jimisgod

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:04

He would learn by being kicked out and taking his moneybags elsewhere, and Koba filling his drive.

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#160 MrLam

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:23

In the meantime, Kobayashi has the speed, race-craft, and spatial awareness, but may be out of a seat. WTF?


I could not agree more... (and I am a french!)

#161 Craven Morehead

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:01

In the meantime, Kobayashi has the speed, race-craft, and spatial awareness, but may be out of a seat. WTF?



So true. I'd venture to say that Kobayashi's 'spatial awareness' is among the best out there. Another ban won't help Growjohn. He was trying to stay out of trouble when he ran into the Redbull. He just needs to relax a bit, so he can divide his focus on track. Hopefully he'll get it together soon.

#162 Mauseri

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:12

In the meantime, Kobayashi has the speed, race-craft, and spatial awareness, but may be out of a seat. WTF?

I agree Koba is being overlooked, thought so already before Suzuka, but now with a podium I can post this also here. I don't think Perez is so good in comparison as some of his alternative strategy podiums make people hype.

#163 g1n

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:47

Fixed for you. :p


It is more to do with the fact that Lotus boss is Growjohns manager, than money :blush:

#164 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:11

He would learn by being kicked out and taking his moneybags elsewhere, and Koba filling his drive.

He does not bring much money that I know of. And any team would be good to pick him up. He'll be a far better bet than somebody like Kobayashi long-term.

#165 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:23

one of the key factor in grosjeans drive is TOTAL, they support romain.

in regards to what action should be taken against him ... we have to see it from a wider view. it's no secret that romain is very talented and fast. his qualy pace is good. But it's also no wonder that he's under tremendous mental pressure. he's constantly thinking about not ****ing up race start. also all the other driver's attitude is also having an effect on him mentally. he's in a vicious cycle of bad mistakes, each piling the pressure on the other. i don't know spatial conciousness is an issue, if he can run the car on the edge of the track, he certainly knows where his front wing is. what he lacks is the confidence, he's trying too hard. we saw the same issue with Hamilton-massa crashes last year, one after the other. same with grosjean.


but the question is, people can be sympathetic so many times, after his race ban, even mark webber said it was harsh after singapore GP. Banning him again is not gonna help him. also he's found a worse time as we now have back to back races, no time for some quiet down self reflection, not to mention media hounds will hunt him down.

also another fact is boullier's attitude, he's too protective, i don't know what frank williams said to pastor but it seemed to work, i think boulier needs to do the same. we need both Grosjean and Kimi to perform to take third in WCC and also help kimi's WDC shot. we can only hope for the best.

#166 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:09

There are plenty of drivers who are fast but can't race. Grosjean is just the most famous one in the world at the moment unfortunately for him. He had his perma-smile well and truly wiped off his face now hasn't he?

Driving and racing are two different skills that can cancel each other out if you aren't careful. Obviously Grosjean can drive, he just can't race. In F1 at least. Being a rookie isn't an excuse, Lewis came into F1 as one of the best wheel to wheel racers to grace the sport right from his first season.

#167 engel

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:11

also another fact is boullier's attitude, he's too protective



Boullier is right in this instance, Grosjean was so focused on not making contact with Kobayashi he completely blurred Webber out. Accident avoidance is not a skill, it's an instinct, what Boullier says has merit. So long as Grosjean tries to secondguess himself he's more likely to get caught up in these types of situations.

#168 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:14

There are plenty of drivers who are fast but can't race. Grosjean is just the most famous one in the world at the moment unfortunately for him. He had his perma-smile well and truly wiped off his face now hasn't he?

Driving and racing are two different skills that can cancel each other out if you aren't careful. Obviously Grosjean can drive, he just can't race. In F1 at least. Being a rookie isn't an excuse, Lewis came into F1 as one of the best wheel to wheel racers to grace the sport right from his first season.



did u see valencia gp this year??? even in singapore he raced good. grosjeans problem is not racing others, he doesn't drive in anger like Pastor, romain's problem is first lap, he seems to try too hard and too much at the opening laps, that's his problem. once he's settled for a couple of laps, he's good driver. look at the podiums he's had so far.

#169 swerved

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:15

I cant quite fathom out this from Boullier

"We could see in Singapore, when Romain was back after his race ban, that some other drivers were putting extra pressure on him at the start,"


Does Boullier mean that some were trying to pass him ? As an F1 driver is he not expected to be able to handle pressure like that ?

#170 engel

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:21

I cant quite fathom out this from Boullier

"We could see in Singapore, when Romain was back after his race ban, that some other drivers were putting extra pressure on him at the start,"


Does Boullier mean that some were trying to pass him ? As an F1 driver is he not expected to be able to handle pressure like that ?


He's referring to the race start in Singapore (4 abreast into T1 with Grosjean in the middle). F1 drivers aren't trappist monks, they know if someone is vulnerable (cause he's just been punished for example) and they will squeeze him that little bit extra cause they know he'll take less risk.

#171 Vickyy

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:22

I saw post race interview and felt pretty bad for Romain, as Jake pointed out, he was about to burst in tears. I know F1 is not an emotional world and understandably fellow drivers are hard on him, but I hope he take it as a character building moments and be a force to be reckon with.

#172 FenderJaguar

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:22

I'd take Grosjean over Kobayashi any day (if the question was just about driver and no sponsormoney). I know Kobayashi is coming from a great result but Grosjean has a lot of potential. And if he gets the right support and confidence he will work out his start problems. This coming from someone who has been very critical of Grosjean since Malaysia and especially since Monaco and onwards.

#173 swerved

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:27

He's referring to the race start in Singapore (4 abreast into T1 with Grosjean in the middle). F1 drivers aren't trappist monks, they know if someone is vulnerable (cause he's just been punished for example) and they will squeeze him that little bit extra cause they know he'll take less risk.


I'd forgotten that 4 abreast thing, and yes i suppose some might try and take advantage, but if he had faith in his own ability surely he'd not allow himself to be bullied, It just seems a strange thing for Boullier to say.


#174 Risil

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:29

I'd forgotten that 4 abreast thing, and yes i suppose some might try and take advantage, but if he had faith in his own ability surely he'd not allow himself to be bullied, It just seems a strange thing for Boullier to say.


Hm? How could he have not allowed himself to be bullied, other than by getting involved in (another) accident? Throwing some punches after the race?

Edited by Risil, 09 October 2012 - 13:30.


#175 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:33

Boullier is right in this instance, Grosjean was so focused on not making contact with Kobayashi he completely blurred Webber out. Accident avoidance is not a skill, it's an instinct, what Boullier says has merit. So long as Grosjean tries to secondguess himself he's more likely to get caught up in these types of situations.


No, Bouillier is wrong. Was a Boullier a racer? Are you? If you are directly behind someone and someone is to your left your unequivocal priority is the car in front. At the same time make sure you are staying to the right as not to drive into the car you know is on your left but it's also his responsibilty not to drive into you (like Grosjean did to Hamilton at Spa) so trust is required. It's completely (and I can't empthasise this enough) the responsibility of the car behind not to drive into the one infront of you, no matter what they do and this should have been his main focus at that point. Actually, you don't even need to be an experienced racer to learn this, it's drilled into everyone who has ever learned to drive a car; "watch the road ahead".

did u see valencia gp this year??? even in singapore he raced good. grosjeans problem is not racing others, he doesn't drive in anger like Pastor, romain's problem is first lap, he seems to try too hard and too much at the opening laps, that's his problem. once he's settled for a couple of laps, he's good driver. look at the podiums he's had so far.


You say he's good at racing others, just not at the start when you are racing most of those others? :drunk: I agree he doesn't come across malicious which Pastor has at times but arguably it's more worrying that he doesn't know where these boundaries are at the most dangerous part of the race; the start.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 09 October 2012 - 13:39.


#176 engel

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:40

No, Bouillier is wrong. Was a Boullier a racer? Are you? If you are directly behind someone and someone is to your left your unequivocal priority is the car in front. At the same time make sure you are staying to the right as not to drive into the car you know is on your left but it's also his responsibilty not to drive into you (like Grosjean did to Hamilton at Spa) so trust is required. It's completely (and I can't empthasise this enough) the responsibility of the car behind not to drive into the one infront of you, no matter what they do and this should have been his main focus at that point. Actually, you don't even need to be an experienced racer to learn this, it's drilled into everyone who has ever learned to drive a car; "watch the road ahead".


calm down and reread what I wrote. it's basic psychology, the soccer star obsessing over not missing the penalty will miss the penalty, the golfer obsessing over not missing the putt will miss the putt etc. What Boullier, and most driver coaches, will tell you is to stop obsessing over not having an accident and allow your instincts to take over.

#177 Jimisgod

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:44

I'd take Grosjean over Kobayashi any day (if the question was just about driver and no sponsormoney). I know Kobayashi is coming from a great result but Grosjean has a lot of potential. And if he gets the right support and confidence he will work out his start problems. This coming from someone who has been very critical of Grosjean since Malaysia and especially since Monaco and onwards.


I wouldn't. If the start thing is something he hasn't fixed in years of junior formula, it's not really going to change. You can go from 8 stupid crashes a season to 6 or 4, but it will still cost you. I see him as a better de Cesaris, who was undoubtedly quick, but never amounted to much and was almost always in a ride due to a steady sponsor.

Kimi has been disappointing at qualifying, yes, but I feel next year that he will have the edge. Races are never in doubt, Kimi wins. Grosjean barely has half his points haul.

It's clear Kobayashi is closer to Perez than Grosjean is to Kimi, and Perez may, with time, amount to more than Kimi if his 3 years at McLaren go well. Kamui regularly outpaces Perez in races and quali when the crazy tyre strategies aren't at play. If I could afford erratic results ala Maldonado I'd go for Grosjean, but if I wanted more consistency, I'd choose Koba.

Edited by Jimisgod, 09 October 2012 - 13:45.


#178 swerved

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 14:50

Hm? How could he have not allowed himself to be bullied, other than by getting involved in (another) accident? Throwing some punches after the race?



He'd probably miss and fall over his feet.

But joking apart, the same way the other drivers dont allow themselves to be bullied, "other than by getting involved in (another) accident?" there's a chance that if that happened then the "bullying" driver would also have to take a risk that his own race might be compromised, Also, we'll never know of course, but would those 4 drivers have still ended up 4 abreast if Romain hadn't received his ban or didn't have this first lap reputation ?

I suppose it seems that Boullier and, or, Romain dont have any faith in the fact that its possible for Romain to be involved in an accident without it being his fault.



#179 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:13

Completely opposite. Its the first lap where unexpected moves catch people out most. Everybody is jostling for position. You cant expect that the entire field behind you is 100% concentrated on what you and only you are doing. If it was the 53rd lap, yes, it would be completely different as Grosjean would have been singled-out on what Webber was doing. Seriously, you do something a bit out-of-place at the start of the race and you put yourself at risk of getting hit. I've seen it happen so many times and I've experienced it happening even in games with other experienced racers.

It was a bad mistake considering all his others, but on its own, this one thing doesn't seem that bash-worthy to me.


At the start, you have to expect that someone may be off of the racing line, and moving slower than normal racing speed. In fact, everyone but the car in first is probably doing one, if not both, of off line and slow. There was nothing unexpected about what Mark Webber was doing. Suddenly swerving to one direction is unexpected. Slamming your brakes 100m before the breaking point is unexpected. Accelerating in a braking zone is unexpected. Being off line and not accelerating as fast as someone else should not be unexpected. If a driver can't deal with the start, that is a problem. Everyone makes mistakes, and the problem isn't that RG made one mistake at the start of this race. The problem is he has a habit of making mistakes at the start.


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#180 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:19

calm down and reread what I wrote. it's basic psychology, the soccer star obsessing over not missing the penalty will miss the penalty, the golfer obsessing over not missing the putt will miss the putt etc. What Boullier, and most driver coaches, will tell you is to stop obsessing over not having an accident and allow your instincts to take over.


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#181 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:26

There are plenty of drivers who are fast but can't race.

Grosjean is actually a fantastic 'racer'. Its just a shame he's had so few chances to show it this year, taking himself out early on.

At the start, you have to expect that someone may be off of the racing line, and moving slower than normal racing speed. In fact, everyone but the car in first is probably doing one, if not both, of off line and slow. There was nothing unexpected about what Mark Webber was doing. Suddenly swerving to one direction is unexpected. Slamming your brakes 100m before the breaking point is unexpected. Accelerating in a braking zone is unexpected. Being off line and not accelerating as fast as someone else should not be unexpected. If a driver can't deal with the start, that is a problem. Everyone makes mistakes, and the problem isn't that RG made one mistake at the start of this race. The problem is he has a habit of making mistakes at the start.

If Webber was crowded or something, what he did would be explainable, but he wasn't. He was clear to both his right, his left and he was not near Vettel or Kobayashi in front. For him to slow like he did definitely would not have been expected. Its still Grosjean's fault for not noticing it early enough, but Webber could have been a bit smarter as well. Just like in regular road accidents, one person may get the blame, but it doesn't mean that the 'victim' didn't do something that put them at bigger risk of getting hit.

#182 Risil

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:28

I suppose it seems that Boullier and, or, Romain dont have any faith in the fact that its possible for Romain to be involved in an accident without it being his fault.


If Romain returned from a ban for causing a first-lap accident and promptly got involved in another first-lap accident, the response would've been predictable enough. He wouldn't have got very far saying "I've got to stand my ground, drivers have got to start respecting me, even if it causes a few accidents".

That said I don't think any of the drivers who were around RG at the first turn at Suzuka did anything wrong, that was just another error. The 10-second penalty, as opposed to the normal drive-through for those sorts of incidents, is a measure of the stewards' annoyance. If he ruins anyone else's race on the first lap he might well find himself with a 3-race ban, which would more or less amount to being parked for the rest of the year.

Still, I don't like Mark Webber and Christian Horner trying to instigate a trial-by-media of Grosjean. It was unfair when Marco Simoncelli was subjected to it last year and it's unfair now.

#183 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:30

I don't think Perez is so good in comparison as some of his alternative strategy podiums make people hype.


mclaren aren't so dump to pick him aren't they ?

Edited by BoxToOvertake, 09 October 2012 - 16:30.


#184 FenderJaguar

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:37

mclaren aren't so dump to pick him aren't they ?

Getting off topic but - I think the Sauber is better this year than what we have been used to previous seasons and I think that all this talk of Perez replacing Massa has at least had some effect in McLaren's decision. I mean - let's take a driver Ferrari has been interested in might make it more interesting for a team like McLaren. I am not sure Perez is the next great thing. If he is great - great for McLaren, but I am not sure it is the best choice they could have made.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 09 October 2012 - 16:38.


#185 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:43

some interesting bit from french site on grosjean

link (use google translate, should get the jist of it)

#186 ali_M

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:11

Grosjean is actually a fantastic 'racer'. Its just a shame he's had so few chances to show it this year, taking himself out early on.


If Webber was crowded or something, what he did would be explainable, but he wasn't. He was clear to both his right, his left and he was not near Vettel or Kobayashi in front. For him to slow like he did definitely would not have been expected. Its still Grosjean's fault for not noticing it early enough, but Webber could have been a bit smarter as well. Just like in regular road accidents, one person may get the blame, but it doesn't mean that the 'victim' didn't do something that put them at bigger risk of getting hit.


Webber was going at the same speed as all the others cars barring Grosjean in the replays that I watched. Grosjean was on the inside of a queue of cars going faster than the queue. He ended up in the back of Webber. The speed differential wasn't that great so I was surprised that it happened. However, Grosjean's admission that he was concentrating on not hitting Kobyashi explained the collision.

He should be concentrating on the road ahead and stick to the inside line as much as possible. Once that's done, then he has nothing to fear in terms of being penalised for any contact that may occur.

He can't be taking on his head the responsibility of preventing collisions between him and others. The others have a responsibility as well. Once he maintains a reasonable line, it's up to the others to not do anything foolish. At Spa, Hamilton maintained his speed and line going into turn one. It was Grosjean who failed to maintain his line without provocation, thus leading to the collision. No penalty for Hamilton but a big one for Grosjean.

He needs to realize that it's about him not being responsible for collisions, not necessarily about him not being involved in race start collisions. Race start collisions are a collective responsibility of the drivers.

#187 muramasa

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:01


I'm not sure I buy the argument that Webber slowed down too much.



2nd corner is slow corner so of course you slow down into it. And it can look that Mark opened tad bit more space in front, but looks nothing abnormal going on there to me. In fact Grosjean literally slammed into the back of Mark, the speed differential up until the point of contact was quite big, besides on Grosjean's onboard you can see how fast he closed in on to Vettel and Kobayashi, as if there isnt Mark Webber between them. (Perez was much much closer to Mark throughout, but somehow he could react to as normal and escape not only "un-smart" Mark , but also the Mark sliding sideways hence going significantly slower suddenly.)

Also Gro said he kept his line, but actually that's not exactly correct. Racing line goes from T1's outside kerb into T2 apex. His excuse stands only if you are side-by-side with Mark. Maybe he meant it to be against Perez, who then was more than half a car length ahead of Gro. He kept his line per se against Perez, but problem is he didnt keep his speed and literally dived into Mark's line as a result. Mark was comfortably ahead of Perez/Gro, so of course he would take the aforementioned "normal racing line", and again did not slow down so strangely at all.

At least there cannot be excuse for that this time, and it's not hyperbole to say "another one from Grosjean" imo.

(He's so lucky to still have so many people defending him. Look at how many unilateral bashing and mocking were thrown at Kazuki Nakajima for only a few, instead of 7 or 8, incidents, by far less obvious mistake. )


#188 Risil

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:14

(He's so lucky to still have so many people defending him. Look at how many unilateral bashing and mocking were thrown at Kazuki Nakajima for only a few, instead of 7 or 8, incidents, by far less obvious mistake. )


Yeah but Nakajima was, well, slow.

#189 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:59

If Romain returned from a ban for causing a first-lap accident and promptly got involved in another first-lap accident, the response would've been predictable enough. He wouldn't have got very far saying "I've got to stand my ground, drivers have got to start respecting me, even if it causes a few accidents".

That said I don't think any of the drivers who were around RG at the first turn at Suzuka did anything wrong, that was just another error. The 10-second penalty, as opposed to the normal drive-through for those sorts of incidents, is a measure of the stewards' annoyance. If he ruins anyone else's race on the first lap he might well find himself with a 3-race ban, which would more or less amount to being parked for the rest of the year.

Still, I don't like Mark Webber and Christian Horner trying to instigate a trial-by-media of Grosjean. It was unfair when Marco Simoncelli was subjected to it last year and it's unfair now.


Certainly I think any other driver (except maybe Maldonado) would've just got a drive through for the incident at Suzuka. 1 other thing I pondered (and I'm not saying this would happen, merely a hypothetical situation) was if the stewards basically started with a blank slate for Grosjean (and to a lesser extent, Maldonado) next year, or if say in the first race he took a couple of guys out on lap 1 whether they'd say "I know it's a new season, but you have recent history of doing this sort of thing, so we're going to DQ you and ban you for the next 3 races". Oh and obviously by that I mean DQ during the race, not a stop go penalty and then deciding to DQ after the race.

#190 ausf1webber

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 22:39

I feel a bit sorry for Gros as he was caught out by Mark's slow pace at the start something he unfortuately seems to have gotten into a habit of recently. Grosj still should not have hit him but looking at what he said I can see how it happened. In time he will work it out and become a very fast consistent driver.

#191 metz

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:31

Just what is the poll question? 3 are asked.


Would Grosjean learn from another ban?

Would it change anything if he was banned again?

Do you think he should receive another ban?



Would that be 2 nos and a yes?

#192 Brandz07

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:36

one of the key factor in grosjeans drive is TOTAL, they support romain.

in regards to what action should be taken against him ... we have to see it from a wider view. it's no secret that romain is very talented and fast. his qualy pace is good. But it's also no wonder that he's under tremendous mental pressure. he's constantly thinking about not ****ing up race start. also all the other driver's attitude is also having an effect on him mentally. he's in a vicious cycle of bad mistakes, each piling the pressure on the other. i don't know spatial conciousness is an issue, if he can run the car on the edge of the track, he certainly knows where his front wing is. what he lacks is the confidence, he's trying too hard. we saw the same issue with Hamilton-massa crashes last year, one after the other. same with grosjean.


but the question is, people can be sympathetic so many times, after his race ban, even mark webber said it was harsh after singapore GP. Banning him again is not gonna help him. also he's found a worse time as we now have back to back races, no time for some quiet down self reflection, not to mention media hounds will hunt him down.

also another fact is boullier's attitude, he's too protective, i don't know what frank williams said to pastor but it seemed to work, i think boulier needs to do the same. we need both Grosjean and Kimi to perform to take third in WCC and also help kimi's WDC shot. we can only hope for the best.


I'm not sure they do? Dams and Renault have been sponsored by Total whilst Grosjeans not been in the teams, plus there wasn't any Total sponsorship on his AutoGP car.

Edited by Brandz07, 12 October 2012 - 12:37.


#193 engel

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:40

I'm not sure they do? Dams and Renault have been sponsored by Total whilst Grosjeans not been in the teams, plus there wasn't any Total sponsorship on his AutoGP car.


He is http://www.f1.total....omain-grosjean/

#194 matzy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:59

I think you are very right there. Get him to relax.


I tend to agree - right now, it feels like he has lost all confidence in himself. If he is offered some security, perhaps he can loosen up a bit and this problem will sort itself out.

#195 sailor

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 13:21

did u see valencia gp this year??? even in singapore he raced good. grosjeans problem is not racing others, he doesn't drive in anger like Pastor, romain's problem is first lap, he seems to try too hard and too much at the opening laps, that's his problem. once he's settled for a couple of laps, he's good driver. look at the podiums he's had so far.

:up:

I think RG is suffering the same problems Vettel was in 2010.
One crash - more pressure to recover and over drive . Crash again and then presuure increases causing more such issues. TPs naming ihm crash kids etc.

Just hope that RG is as strong as Vettel is mentally to not only ignore the trash talk but actually use it as motivation to do even better. One thing is sure - you can learn racecraft but you cant learn to be fast which he is definitely.

Perhaps Lotus should set him up so that he starts as high in Quali as possible and not among the midfield. If he loses places in races - its only a slight problem compared to a DNF or bans