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5 races to go. Vettel 3x WDC?


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Poll: Who will win the 2012 WDC? (445 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win the 2012 WDC?

  1. Alonso (75 votes [16.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.89%

  2. Vettel (307 votes [69.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.14%

  3. Hamilton (32 votes [7.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.21%

  4. Raikkonen (22 votes [4.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.95%

  5. Webber (5 votes [1.13%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.13%

  6. Button (3 votes [0.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.68%

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#201 Sakae

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:05

Already preparing your defence of Vettel in case Alonso still wins.....aren't we, Sakae?

Alonso will not win (I am on the record with this for several months), but I am readying myslef for a lot of complains from two famous teams in next five races. (He crowded me, he slowed me down, he was too close to me, why is he ahead of me) etc. To win off track if you cannot on track is trick that was used I think in the past already.

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#202 eronrules

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:07

He crowded me, he slowed me down, he was too close to me, why is he ahead of me


LOL :rotfl: :rotfl:

#203 EvanRainer

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:11

The big difference nowadays is the level of competition and how close in general the cars are. Back in Schumi's day there were usually 2 teams or even just two drivers going at it. Even if you were a second a lap slower you were still second and hanging in there.

Now, if you are just a bit off the pace you can find yourself starting 8th on the grid just like that, putting a lot of people between you and your rival who could be up front.

If the Red Bull is, not dominant but say best car on par with McLaren, even if Ferrari is just a bit behind that it means that Alonso suddenly has another 3 cars that can easily get in front of him...not to mention all the other cars that can potentially really hit the sweet spot on any given race.

#204 RealRacing

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:14


SV and Red Bull deserve credit for quietly working and improving. The car has not been the fastest; same as Ferrari, same as McLaren and other teams this season, performance varies a lot depending on the track and the weather. The reliability has cost them dearly and it might ye prove to be the defining factor in the championship. Remember MS 2006?

Ferrari and Alonso have talked so much about their car not being up there that they ended up believing it. They must be careful if they want to avoid stress getting the better of them. Alonso has had team problems at the end of other seasons when things were becoming tight and there is such a huge pressure from tifosi that the mix could prove explosive. Already there is a hint of tension from SD's declarations after FA said there have been no developments,

"When I hear that we have not developed the car for many grands prix, it is not true. The truth is that the level of development is very high, but we need to start higher because when you start there [in the middle of the grid] anything can happen."

The Ferrari as a package is fine: it has the best reliability, the best speed under special conditions and is top 3 or 4 in most races.

The WDC will be between SV and FA. If RBR can finish the remaining races, they look good based on their momentum. However, abandonment is not an option at this point and there Ferrari has the upper hand.





#205 Sakae

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:25

...Why people think a lights to flag win is nothing special whereas a win from 8th after a fluffed qualy is epic is beyond me


Perfect hit as result of correct shooting - seisha hicchū in kyūdō (way of the bow, Japanese archery) looks easy if performed by a master. I frequently think of this analogy when I see drive like one in the last race; of course the truth is, that flawless drive is anything but easy. Mind you, had this been Alonso or Hamilton instead Vettel, we would hear different rhetorics almost immediately, as we know from the past. Sebastian has nothing more to prove to his fans.

#206 apoka

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:27

b) give an example of something spectacular Vettel has done this season?

Just 4 races ago, Spa was spectacular.

#207 1Devil1

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:41

Just 4 races ago, Spa was spectacular.


:up: Vettel drove amazing this year. He had some really good drives after starting far back from the top positions and overtook others cars with much more top speed. He struggled in the first races to take the car on a higher grid position in qualifying and this is the only thing you could criticize this year. I really don't understand all the fuss about him only driving good in a superior car. This year is clearly a proof he doesn't need the best car to fight for the championship. After three retirements to placed second in the championship with a field which was leveled as we never seen before is a great achievement and a sign he is one of the best drivers out there if not the best.

Edited by 1Devil1, 08 October 2012 - 18:42.


#208 Jedi_F1

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:43

Oké some FORIX.com sci-fi here! :cool:

Actually there are still 9 drivers in the race for the WDC! :-)

The missing 3=

Massa can still be WDC,
but then he has to win all 5 GP's & Alonso may not score more then 1 point!
Don't know if a 'Fernando is faster then you!' will still be heard through the radio if this would happen!

Grosjean can also still be WDC too,
he even doesn't have to win all 5 remaining GP's,
but I think you will gain more money on a betting game that he will do more crashes then winning in the last 5 GP's!

And then Rosberg who isn't in the list of choice,
3 GP wins & two 2nd places could be enough.. for a WDC,
only if Grosjean manages to crash al the others in the list of choice out of each GP!

Edited by Jedi_F1, 08 October 2012 - 21:43.


#209 alframsey

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:50

I'm not one to praise Vettel very often, in fact him winning in Japan reminded me just how much I dislike him in racing trim and tbh I'd rather Alonso won instead of Vettel, but if he wins this season it really would be remarkable. Absolutely brilliant achievement and I can only respect him. I don't think he will though :p

#210 Skinnyguy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:11

It's all to play for even if RB and Ferrari keep their current relative performances... And that's unlikely. RB has some advantage but not enough to make up for a retirement here or there.

People thinking it's over is kneejerking because of Alonso's mistake, it's wide open between the two leaders with others having still small hopes.

#211 Mandzipop

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 23:10

This year has been very different in the sense that no team has dominated. It is fairly even between a lot of teams depending on track and conditions. Usually it is 2 or at most 3 teams, this year nobody knows form track to track. This has really been the season of if's and but's.

However, whoever wins it will win it on merit as all other drivers have at some point had major issues that have cost them serious points.

Although everyone down to Massa can technically win the WDC. However you have to look at realistically who can win it. *And considering the tools at their disposal I believe it is still between (in alphabetical order) Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel.

* That is why I'm not putting Kimi in there as I don't think he has the car to do it.

#212 F1 Tor.

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 23:18

It could go down to the very last race, and it probably will. Just imagining Grosjean on pole at a rainy Brazil and Fernando and Seb having to win right behind him. One can dream :lol:
Seriously, Seb has all the momentum but we all know that can change in a heartbeat. Fernando will be super motivated, as will Seb, so we're in for a treat. Hopefully Massa can drive like he did on Sunday for the remaining 5 races to help Fernando out a bit. Great way to secure your seat for next year. Right now I'd give a VERY slight edge to Vettel.

Edited by F1 Tor., 08 October 2012 - 23:32.


#213 weareracing

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 23:46

You are going to see/enjoy Sebastian crowned as the youngest TRIPLE back-to-back-to-back World Champion in Austin Texas.
No doubt, Sebastian, Mark (rear-gunner),Red Bull Racing & Newey are in the groove. :smoking:
Eat your heart out Luca, it's NOT going to be Fernando's year, AGAIN.

#214 lbennie

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 23:56

You are going to see/enjoy Sebastian crowned as the youngest TRIPLE back-to-back-to-back World Champion in Austin Texas.
No doubt, Sebastian, Mark (rear-gunner),Red Bull Racing & Newey are in the groove. :smoking:
Eat your heart out Luca, it's NOT going to be Fernando's year, AGAIN.


this

red bull have got their **** together now. going to be quite a boring end to the season unless you're a seb/mark/rb fan :smoking:

#215 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 00:15

I love threads like this, debating the merits of whether someone is worthy of being a WDC is similar to wrestling forums debating who's the greatest WWF champion the Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin :rotfl: .

This season is far from over. All it takes is a DNF for both Alonso and Vettel in Korea, with Hamilton winning and Kimi 2nd and the whole title race is back on. McLaren had a poor race in Suzuka, but I think they'll be on form the next race and beyond.

Edited by TheUltimateWorrier, 09 October 2012 - 00:16.


#216 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 00:51

Voted Alonso. Bernie needs it.
I'd rather see Vettel win it.
Hoping Kimi finishes strong, and wins it next year.

#217 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:05

Voted Alonso. Bernie needs it.

Why does Bernie NEED Alonso to win it?

#218 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:19

Under normal proceedings it’s realistically a toss between two drivers, but no one is home free by any degree of imagination.

In my estimation ChW will be requested to examine a lot of videos in next five races, and there will be no stone unturned…


In other words Ferrari will do all it can politically to try and get the FIA to help them eek out a title via the back door as opposed to on the track.

Just like during the Schumacher years.

Just like they did with that rather dubious penalty to Vettel at Monza.

Lovely.

#219 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:25

I think if Lewis had been first this weekend, I'd say things were equally good for Lewis and for Vettel, but things are looking a little more unpredictable now and with only 5 races left, Vettel's got the momentum and the nice points gap(or lack of one). I'm skeptical that Red Bull can keep up this dominating sort of pace, but Mclaren have shown they aren't going to be unbeatable either, so even Alonso still stands a chance.


Hamilton does have this Achilles Heel that seems to crop up from time to time: He/his side of the garage goes the wrong route on set up that makes him look like a chump in relation to Button from time to time.

Lucky for Lewis that he's the faster of the pair...and that Button, too, seems to be even more invisible than him - and on more occasions (on average).

The other think Hamilton now has against him is that Button is unlikely to "give up" a position to him in order to "help" him in the WDC. We didn't get a chance at Suzuka to see this because Hamilton was too far back and Button was genuinely figthing for an extra 3 points...but I do think Hamilton won't be getting *any* assistance whatsoever from Jenson now.

I also think that Ferrari have a trump card that no one else does: A political, bed-partner one with the FIA.

Ferrari and the FIA will do everything they can to give a penalty to Vettel, avoid giving a penalty to Alonso and also to come up with one test after another to scupper Red Bull's aero developments.

Mark my words. That penalty Vettel was given in Monza while fighting against Alonso at Curva Grande' was just the tip of the tentacle.

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 09 October 2012 - 01:29.


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#220 karne

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:41

Mark. Never lose faith in the most deserving driver on the grid.

If it can't be Mark, then COME ON ALONSO.

#221 George Costanza

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:07

Fernando will bounce back...

And he will be the World Champion.

#222 George Costanza

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:10

SV and Red Bull deserve credit for quietly working and improving. The car has not been the fastest; same as Ferrari, same as McLaren and other teams this season, performance varies a lot depending on the track and the weather. The reliability has cost them dearly and it might ye prove to be the defining factor in the championship. Remember MS 2006?

Ferrari and Alonso have talked so much about their car not being up there that they ended up believing it. They must be careful if they want to avoid stress getting the better of them. Alonso has had team problems at the end of other seasons when things were becoming tight and there is such a huge pressure from tifosi that the mix could prove explosive. Already there is a hint of tension from SD's declarations after FA said there have been no developments,

"When I hear that we have not developed the car for many grands prix, it is not true. The truth is that the level of development is very high, but we need to start higher because when you start there [in the middle of the grid] anything can happen."

The Ferrari as a package is fine: it has the best reliability, the best speed under special conditions and is top 3 or 4 in most races.

The WDC will be between SV and FA. If RBR can finish the remaining races, they look good based on their momentum. However, abandonment is not an option at this point and there Ferrari has the upper hand.



Michael made two errors that season that would have easily won it before Japan in 2006.... (Hungary and Melbourne). Yes, the blown engine played a role in Japan, but let's not forget some of the other reasons also. However, I do believe Schu would have been the 2006 World Champion if it did not blow up.

#223 seahawk

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:48

If you just look at the driving this year, it does not matter if Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton win. Those 3 were the best and between them there is little to choose from.

#224 Reinmuster

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:32

If you just look at the driving this year, it does not matter if Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton win. Those 3 were the best and between them there is little to choose from.


True, but we are looking to the possibilities whether Vettel could become the youngest triple world champion, or the 3rd crown for Alonso.

Edited by Reinmuster, 09 October 2012 - 05:33.


#225 seahawk

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:52

Does it matter? Both would deserve their 3rd title. Both drove very good this year.

#226 Skellen

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:08

True, but we are looking to the possibilities whether Vettel could become the youngest triple world champion, or the 3rd crown for Alonso.


Either Alonso or Vettel are going to become the youngest triple WDC if they win it this year. Currently this record is held by Senna who did it when he was 31 years, 227 days old.

Edited by Skellen, 09 October 2012 - 06:09.


#227 Atreiu

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:48

For the sake of it, Japan 91 was Sennas 125th GP. Vettel might do it with his hundreth or so and Alonso with over 170, Im not sure exactly how much.

#228 SparkPlug

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:01

I wouldnt rule out Hamilton from this championship yet. He still has an outside shot at this, especially if Vettel and Alonso end up taking each other out (the came close at Monza) in one of the next 2-3 races. Mclaren should be very strong at both Korea and India.



Ideally for the sake of fun :D , I would like Hamilton to get his second this year, so that next year we have 3 drivers with 2 WDCs each and then next year Mclaren produces a beast for Button to get his second as well. Imagine 2014, 4 drivers with 2 WDCs each, what a mouth watering prospect :drunk:


#229 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:45

You are going to see/enjoy Sebastian crowned as the youngest TRIPLE back-to-back-to-back World Champion in Austin Texas.
No doubt, Sebastian, Mark (rear-gunner),Red Bull Racing & Newey are in the groove. :smoking:
Eat your heart out Luca, it's NOT going to be Fernando's year, AGAIN.


If I put my tinfoil hat on I can see Bernie arranging for the US to get the title decider in the year they return to the sport. :smoking:

#230 Reinmuster

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:48

Either Alonso or Vettel are going to become the youngest triple WDC if they win it this year. Currently this record is held by Senna who did it when he was 31 years, 227 days old.


Yeah me forgot about it. Among those 3, vettel gonna be the most unique. Back-to-back-to-back wdc.

#231 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:31

Mark. Never lose faith in the most deserving driver on the grid.

If it can't be Mark, then COME ON ALONSO.



mark who ??? :stoned: com'on, even mark knows he doesn't have any hope.

#232 swerved

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:46

I would love Kimi to take it, people have discounted him before, and lived to rue the fact, but those who discount him this year are probably on less shaky ground given the tools at his disposal.

So, I would like Vettel to take it, for me he is the real star, and start, of the new era, he would be a worthy and deserving Champion imo.

#233 Jamiednm

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:48

Everybody sees a team do well in a race or two and freaks out about them. I expect Mclaren to be back and Ferrari could still have chances at some races coming up. Wouldn't write off Lotus doing something good, either. Red Bull have had little spurts where they've looked set to dominate but then things change. I think Vettel probably has a better chance at this point on-paper, but lots of things can happen.


I'm not basing this just on Suzuka. Vettel was very competitive in Singapore and over the course of the season, the RB8 has been much more competitive than the F2012. Unless it rains, I can't see Alonso getting another race win but it's easy to see Vettel picking up more victories.

#234 sailor

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:52

Mark. Never lose faith in the most deserving driver on the grid.

If it can't be Mark, then COME ON ALONSO.


If he does that - I m gonna be a bigger fan of his than you !

#235 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:01

I would love Kimi to take it, people have discounted him before, and lived to rue the fact, but those who discount him this year are probably on less shaky ground given the tools at his disposal.


:up: :up: :up:
:kiss:

we can only dream :blush:

Edited by eronrules, 09 October 2012 - 11:02.


#236 exogenesis1203

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:10

If he does that - I m gonna be a bigger fan of his than you !

I don't think such a feat is physically possible in this reality (I mean for someone to become an even bigger fan than karne) It will probably rip apart the fabrics of this world and awakens Cthulhu himself.

#237 joshb

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:40

:up: Vettel drove amazing this year. He had some really good drives after starting far back from the top positions and overtook others cars with much more top speed. He struggled in the first races to take the car on a higher grid position in qualifying and this is the only thing you could criticize this year. I really don't understand all the fuss about him only driving good in a superior car. This year is clearly a proof he doesn't need the best car to fight for the championship. After three retirements to placed second in the championship with a field which was leveled as we never seen before is a great achievement and a sign he is one of the best drivers out there if not the best.


I know the magazine ratings are not the holy grail but his lowest score this year is a 7/10- the only one to to have a 6 or lower. And whilst he's had some weekend where he's been solid but unspectacular, he hasn't had any weekends where he has been sub-par.
Might not be the best driver this season but he's been constantly in the hunt for top 6 finishes

#238 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 14:03

Why does Bernie NEED Alonso to win it?

To keep the RED MONSTER happy.
RBR have the faster car now.
They look like they're peaking at the right time.
Hopeing FA wins the WDC gives Bernie a nicer Luca to deal with.
And F1 is Ferraris game really.
Isn't it?

#239 Reinmuster

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 14:49

.... Both would deserve their 3rd title. Both drove very good this year.


Agree on all the points you stated.

Does it matter? ....


Of course.

Comparison will be made and history will debate on who gonna be the best youngest 3x WDC should both won their 3rd title.

Already someone mention Senna (regarding the youngest 3x WDC).




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#240 canaus

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 14:54

I know the magazine ratings are not the holy grail but his lowest score this year is a 7/10- the only one to to have a 6 or lower. And whilst he's had some weekend where he's been solid but unspectacular, he hasn't had any weekends where he has been sub-par.
Might not be the best driver this season but he's been constantly in the hunt for top 6 finishes


Quite so, Vettel has been solid all year, consistently solid I would say, but still bellow Hamilton and especially Alonso. In the first half of the season his qualifying performances were quite poor, to be honest. But in races he's been quite good and he recovered in most of them, most notable in Spa where he was absolutely brilliant. IMO, his best race ever.

The only one who's deserving this only as a driver is Alonso, who was consistently brilliant, race by race in an inferior car to RBR and McLaren. The fact that he is leading the WDC after 15 races, speaks for himself.

I said that because, I often hear, that driver deserves the title like the team doesn't count. That's only if he wins in an inferior car. It is not the case for Vettel, but the combo Vettel&RBR will definitely deserve this.

Edited by canaus, 09 October 2012 - 14:54.


#241 seahawk

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:05

Of course.

Comparison will be made and history will debate on who gonna be the best youngest 3x WDC should both won their 3rd title.

Already someone mention Senna (regarding the youngest 3x WDC).


Currently I think it does not matter. The speed of the car, the driving, reliability, the weather and luck will decide who will win the title and decide who will get his 3rd (or second) title. Discussing on the how, why and who will be left to the fans when the season ended.

#242 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:27

The speed of the car, the driving, reliability, the weather and luck will decide who will win the title ...


Yes, there's Speed, Reliability, Driving, Weather and Luck...but I think there are two other factors:

1. Politics. The FIA may be inclined to favour Ferrari. Already Vettel has gotten a penalty which I don't think he deserved at Monza (Curva Grande, Alonso). Also, the load tests were "stiffened" to try and reign in RBRs and McLarens. I

It's clear who is benifiting here: Ferrari/Alonso.

2. Development. Who out-develolps whom over these 5 fly-aways.

I'm hoping the FIA's pro-Ferrari bias doesn't hinder Vettel and Hamilton and even Raikkonen. But I have a bad feeling we've already seen the FIA's pro-Ferrari stance at Monza and now with the all new load tests.

#243 ali_M

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:32

I'm expecting that Vettel will win the title. He's so darned quick in that RedBull. IMO, no other driver on the grid is quicker than he is. Perhaps Hamilton is on par since Hamilton, like Vettel will take that pole once the car is up to it. They will take that win, making it seem easy. Alonso is no slouch himself and his completeness when compared to Vettel, has been overhyped this season.

Vettel has not enjoyed a dominant car all season. There have been ups and downs as with the others. He has had his DNF's as Alonso is now having his. Alonso and Ferrari are in a performance slump and have just seemed to recover since Massa's drive to second was very convincing.

I just don't agree that Alonso has had a poor car all season and that Vettel has had a great car all season. Kudo's to whichever of the two manages to pull this one off. All credit to them. Hamilton is in a similar position to them, but somehow, I doubt that he'll have the mental application to be able to pull it together and get the better of Vettel and Alonso. The wing choice and setup problem last race were just too much.

#244 UPRC

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:35

Vettel is only close because of Alonso being taken out from two races on the first lap. Alonso's lead would probably be near 50 points if it hadn't been for that. Frankly I feel that Grosjean is robbing Alonso of an easy title, and I'm not even an Alonso fan.

Vettel isn't doing any better than usual, he's just extremely lucky to have not been attacked by that lunatic Grosjean. As bad as this sounds, I actually want Grosjean to punt Vettel off at one of the remaining races just to even things back out again. I don't want a driver winning the title because the other guy(s) was taken out of the race one too many times by a madman who can't handle his car at the first corner of any given race.

Edited by UPRC, 09 October 2012 - 15:41.


#245 engel

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:42

Vettel is only close because of Alonso being taken out from two races on the first lap. Alonso's lead would probably be near 50 points if it hadn't been for that. Frankly I feel that Grosjean is robbing Alonso of an easy title, and I'm not even an Alonso fan.

Vettel isn't doing any better than usual, he's just extremely lucky to have not been attacked by that lunatic Grosjean. As bad as this sounds, I actually want Grosjean to punt Vettel off at one of the remaining races just to even things back out again. I don't want a driver winning the title because the other guy(s) was taken out of the race one too many times by a madman who can't handle his car at the first corner of any given race.


First time was Spa. When was the second time Grosjean took Alonso out?

#246 Mandzipop

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:49

Vettel is only close because of Alonso being taken out from two races on the first lap. Alonso's lead would probably be near 50 points if it hadn't been for that. Frankly I feel that Grosjean is robbing Alonso of an easy title, and I'm not even an Alonso fan.

Vettel isn't doing any better than usual, he's just extremely lucky to have not been attacked by that lunatic Grosjean. As bad as this sounds, I actually want Grosjean to punt Vettel off at one of the remaining races just to even things back out again. I don't want a driver winning the title because the other guy(s) was taken out of the race one too many times by a madman who can't handle his car at the first corner of any given race.


Seb has had technical retirements that Alonso hasn't had to contend with.

No car can claim to have been the fastest car all year unlike last year. It has been all over the place this year and all of the WDC contenders have had external issues to contend beyond their control.

Whoever wins deserves it.

#247 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:08

Vettel is only close because of Alonso being taken out from two races on the first lap. Alonso's lead would probably be near 50 points if it hadn't been for that. Frankly I feel that Grosjean is robbing Alonso of an easy title, and I'm not even an Alonso fan.

Vettel isn't doing any better than usual, he's just extremely lucky to have not been attacked by that lunatic Grosjean. As bad as this sounds, I actually want Grosjean to punt Vettel off at one of the remaining races just to even things back out again. I don't want a driver winning the title because the other guy(s) was taken out of the race one too many times by a madman who can't handle his car at the first corner of any given race.



This post is a joke, right?

I mean, you do realize that there was a 33 point swing at Valencia where poor Vettel's alternator went, turning a dominant lead into an Alonso win.

At best, Alonso would have gotten 18 points at Valencia had the alternators in the Renault engines of Vettel and Grosjean not gone.

The alternator in Vettel's Renault engine also went at Monza.

And why are you saying Grosjean is costing Alonso the title?

Grosjean took out Webber at Suzuka and he also took out Hamilton at Spa. McLaren won at Spa with Button...so Grosjean, in the end, has hurt Hamilton and Webber just as much as Alonso.

The logic in your post is flawed. If Grosjean takes out Vettel in one of the remaining races, then - to redress all balance - the Ferrari's engine should blow in 2 of the remaining 5 races too.

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 09 October 2012 - 16:10.


#248 RealRacing

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:11

Vettel is only close because of Alonso being taken out from two races on the first lap. Alonso's lead would probably be near 50 points if it hadn't been for that. Frankly I feel that Grosjean is robbing Alonso of an easy title, and I'm not even an Alonso fan.

Vettel isn't doing any better than usual, he's just extremely lucky to have not been attacked by that lunatic Grosjean. As bad as this sounds, I actually want Grosjean to punt Vettel off at one of the remaining races just to even things back out again. I don't want a driver winning the title because the other guy(s) was taken out of the race one too many times by a madman who can't handle his car at the first corner of any given race.


The other side of the coin: Alonso is only there because of Vettel's car failures.

#249 HappyPhantom

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:14

This post is a joke, right?

I mean, you do realize that there was a 33 point swing at Valencia where poor Vettel's alternator went, turning a dominant lead into an Alonso win.

At best, Alonso would have gotten 18 points at Valencia had the alternators in the Renault engines of Vettel and Grosjean not gone.

The alternator in Vettel's Renault engine also went at Monza.

And why are you saying Grosjean is costing Alonso the title?

Grosjean took out Webber at Suzuka and he also took out Hamilton at Spa. McLaren won at Spa with Button...so Grosjean, in the end, has hurt Hamilton and Webber just as much as Alonso.

The logic in your post is flawed. If Grosjean takes out Vettel in one of the remaining races, then - to redress all balance - the Ferrari's engine should blow in 2 of the remaining 5 races too.


Alonso was already past Grosjean after the safety car in Valencia. But I agree with the rest...

#250 Tauhid

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:15

I'd be surprised if Vettel doesn't become the WDC this year. He has everything working on his favours. Tracks that the Red Bull has always been good at and not to forget how brilliant and utterly dominant he was in all the circuits we have left to go to. On the other hand, I feel sorry for Alonso. He has been the best driver on the grid this year and Lewis comes 2nd in that respect but neither of them can win it this year. It has to be Vettel for all the bookies unless Ferrari gives Alonso a far better car or Hamilton really ups his game and wins 3 out of the remaining 5 races.