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Can Hamilton rise to the Mercedes challenge? [split]


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#1 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:28

Well Hamilton's stated reason for joining Mercedes is not the money or the broken bridges at McLaren, it is for the challenge of pulling a team towards competitiveness and delivering a title... I believe him.

But since I also believe that the reason that Hamilton is not yet proving to be the great driver that his huge natural talent and speed would suggest he is capable of being, chiefly because he lacks the approach to lead and deliver so far - I am seriously doubting his ability to meet this challenge. He is no Schumacher or Alonso in this regard in my book. His 6 years at McLaren appear to be, on the face of it, an easier version of the challenge he has now set himself and that only resulted in one championship. I guess I am concluding that I don't think Hamilton is ready for this challenge yet. I think he needed to prove he could do it with McLaren first.

The hope is that the new environment, released from the parenting of McLaren, will allow him to approach things with greater responsibility and conviction where we may see the difference and a better Hamilton emerge.


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#2 fed up

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:42

Well Hamilton's stated reason for joining Mercedes is not the money or the broken bridges at McLaren, it is for the challenge of pulling a team towards competitiveness and delivering a title... I believe him.

But since I also believe that the reason that Hamilton is not yet proving to be the great driver that his huge natural talent and speed would suggest he is capable of being, chiefly because he lacks the approach to lead and deliver so far - I am seriously doubting his ability to meet this challenge. He is no Schumacher or Alonso in this regard in my book. His 6 years at McLaren appear to be, on the face of it, an easier version of the challenge he has now set himself and that only resulted in one championship. I guess I am concluding that I don't think Hamilton is ready for this challenge yet. I think he needed to prove he could do it with McLaren first.

The hope is that the new environment, released from the parenting of McLaren, will allow him to approach things with greater responsibility and conviction where we may see the difference and a better Hamilton emerge.


You are judging this based on his time at mclaren. This doesn't mean a thing as it would be near on impossible to lead a team where you have effectively grown up.

Martin, for example, knew Lewis when he was 10 years old. How could Lewis lead him 17 years later? Not possible.

He has a better chance leading at Mercedes because other than Norbert he has to prove himself to the other members of the team.

#3 blackmme

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:44

Well Hamilton's stated reason for joining Mercedes is not the money or the broken bridges at McLaren, it is for the challenge of pulling a team towards competitiveness and delivering a title... I believe him.

But since I also believe that the reason that Hamilton is not yet proving to be the great driver that his huge natural talent and speed would suggest he is capable of being, chiefly because he lacks the approach to lead and deliver so far - I am seriously doubting his ability to meet this challenge. He is no Schumacher or Alonso in this regard in my book. His 6 years at McLaren appear to be, on the face of it, an easier version of the challenge he has now set himself and that only resulted in one championship. I guess I am concluding that I don't think Hamilton is ready for this challenge yet. I think he needed to prove he could do it with McLaren first.

The hope is that the new environment, released from the parenting of McLaren, will allow him to approach things with greater responsibility and conviction where we may see the difference and a better Hamilton emerge.


I tend to agree Rinehart, I am HUGE fan of Lewis, and he has set himself a stiff challenge. I admire him for that and it will be interesting to see if he can rise to it.

I am sure someone over the last few weeks said to Lewis "The things you regret most in life are the things you didn't do......"

Regards Mike

#4 mlsnoopy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:49

Well Hamilton's stated reason for joining Mercedes is not the money or the broken bridges at McLaren, it is for the challenge of pulling a team towards competitiveness and delivering a title... I believe him.

But since I also believe that the reason that Hamilton is not yet proving to be the great driver that his huge natural talent and speed would suggest he is capable of being, chiefly because he lacks the approach to lead and deliver so far - I am seriously doubting his ability to meet this challenge. He is no Schumacher or Alonso in this regard in my book. His 6 years at McLaren appear to be, on the face of it, an easier version of the challenge he has now set himself and that only resulted in one championship. I guess I am concluding that I don't think Hamilton is ready for this challenge yet. I think he needed to prove he could do it with McLaren first.

The hope is that the new environment, released from the parenting of McLaren, will allow him to approach things with greater responsibility and conviction where we may see the difference and a better Hamilton emerge.


Hamilton's problem is the team. McLaren has done to many mistakes. Those who accept the mistakes can see that he is the best driver on the grid. These seasone proves it. The problem is that most people ignore or don't want to accept the team mistakes.
What is interesting, people continue to bring up his only mistake from 2010. But that year Alonso made mistakes in 6 races, but nobody keeps bringing them up.

#5 whitevisor

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:49

So now, he should not go to the Mercedes team any more?

First he was "lucky to have winning cars every year" and now that he is going to a mid field team to prove himself, he shouldn't bother as he doesn't have the leadership skills to do it anyway? :)

What other things are there to nitpick? This "weakness" is new to me.

#6 robefc

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:57

Well Hamilton's stated reason for joining Mercedes is not the money or the broken bridges at McLaren, it is for the challenge of pulling a team towards competitiveness and delivering a title... I believe him.

But since I also believe that the reason that Hamilton is not yet proving to be the great driver that his huge natural talent and speed would suggest he is capable of being, chiefly because he lacks the approach to lead and deliver so far - I am seriously doubting his ability to meet this challenge. He is no Schumacher or Alonso in this regard in my book. His 6 years at McLaren appear to be, on the face of it, an easier version of the challenge he has now set himself and that only resulted in one championship. I guess I am concluding that I don't think Hamilton is ready for this challenge yet. I think he needed to prove he could do it with McLaren first.

The hope is that the new environment, released from the parenting of McLaren, will allow him to approach things with greater responsibility and conviction where we may see the difference and a better Hamilton emerge.


I agree.

I agree with the bottom part but not that it was easier at mclaren. I can see why it would be difficult for him given how he has grown up there both in terms of changing perceptions of him from the team and in developing the skils/maturity to fulfill that role.

No guarantee that he has it within his skillset/character to do it at mercedes but hopefully this will be the making of him from that perspective.

#7 as65p

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:58

Hamilton's problem is the team. McLaren has done to many mistakes. Those who accept the mistakes can see that he is the best driver on the grid. These seasone proves it. The problem is that most people ignore or don't want to accept the team mistakes.
What is interesting, people continue to bring up his only mistake from 2010. But that year Alonso made mistakes in 6 races, but nobody keeps bringing them up.


That's because nobody understands your maths.

#8 undersquare

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 13:05

Well Hamilton's stated reason for joining Mercedes is not the money or the broken bridges at McLaren, it is for the challenge of pulling a team towards competitiveness and delivering a title... I believe him.

But since I also believe that the reason that Hamilton is not yet proving to be the great driver that his huge natural talent and speed would suggest he is capable of being, chiefly because he lacks the approach to lead and deliver so far - I am seriously doubting his ability to meet this challenge. He is no Schumacher or Alonso in this regard in my book. His 6 years at McLaren appear to be, on the face of it, an easier version of the challenge he has now set himself and that only resulted in one championship. I guess I am concluding that I don't think Hamilton is ready for this challenge yet. I think he needed to prove he could do it with McLaren first.

The hope is that the new environment, released from the parenting of McLaren, will allow him to approach things with greater responsibility and conviction where we may see the difference and a better Hamilton emerge.

Lol, more malicious speculation. Can't you even wait to see? :drunk:

Lewis was doing the leading at McLaren, until they took the opportunity away with Jenson love and superequality.

From what Brawn's said it seems that the big carrot Mercedes offered was precisely to give Lewis that 2008-9 type relationship and listen to him.

#9 whitevisor

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 13:16

I actually think Lewis might surprise us in the leadership role. The two years he has lead the team ('08,'09) the car advanced very well. I still get emotional over 2009 when I remember it. Look where the car ended up... I was so proud to be a Mclaren supporter. I wonder what F1 life will be like as a Mercedes supporter? :p I can do without the 2009 emotions though.

#10 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 13:53

Interesting that one Hamilton supporter realised I was saying that whilst it doesn't look certain, I HOPE that Hamilton will deliver in the new environment, with that environment being the key. Whereas 3 Hamilton supporters took it as a dig, seemingly not being able to look past the midly negative pretext to a highly POSITIVE conclusion to the post.

Seriously, when it gets to the stage where in the same post I am saying I HOPE Hamilton does well at Mercedes, yet I am being called a hater, its time to reach for the ignore option.



#11 as65p

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:01

Interesting that one Hamilton supporter realised I was saying that whilst it doesn't look certain, I HOPE that Hamilton will deliver in the new environment, with that environment being the key. Whereas 3 Hamilton supporters took it as a dig, seemingly not being able to look past the midly negative pretext to a highly POSITIVE conclusion to the post.

Seriously, when it gets to the stage where in the same post I am saying I HOPE Hamilton does well at Mercedes, yet I am being called a hater, its time to reach for the ignore option.


Thou shalt not hope, but believe and trust in TDG all the time. Hope is for the weak in faith.

#12 EvanRainer

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:03

Amen :lol:

#13 schumimercamg

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 15:04

I actually think Lewis might surprise us in the leadership role. The two years he has lead the team ('08,'09) the car advanced very well. I still get emotional over 2009 when I remember it. Look where the car ended up... I was so proud to be a Mclaren supporter. I wonder what F1 life will be like as a Mercedes supporter? :p I can do without the 2009 emotions though.


Trust me life as a Mercedes supporter is not fun.

#14 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 17:57

Well Hamilton's stated reason for joining Mercedes is not the money or the broken bridges at McLaren, it is for the challenge of pulling a team towards competitiveness and delivering a title... I believe him.


Part of me also believes him. Don't know if he mentioned Schumacher or not when talking about others that moved teams etc, but Schumacher of course went from Benetton to a Ferrari team that wasn't exactly battling for titles every year, and hadn't won the drivers title in donkeys years, yet took up the challenge to take them back to the top, so certainly in that respect, what Lewis says about moving for the challenge, to take a team to the top is certainly believable, because it's happened before in the not too distant past.

#15 Darth Sidious

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 18:19

Part of me also believes him. Don't know if he mentioned Schumacher or not when talking about others that moved teams etc, but Schumacher of course went from Benetton to a Ferrari team that wasn't exactly battling for titles every year, and hadn't won the drivers title in donkeys years, yet took up the challenge to take them back to the top, so certainly in that respect, what Lewis says about moving for the challenge, to take a team to the top is certainly believable, because it's happened before in the not too distant past.


Jacques Villeneuve tried that. Epic fail.

These things happen.

#16 MinT

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 18:28

The onbly issue I have with Hami making the switch to build a competitve team around him is tha.. whilxt he has shown he is a great, fast racer, he has shown very little in the way of being able to grasp, let alone put into practice, the skills necessary to pull a team around him - far from it.

Other than parrotting the same team friendly platitudes every time he wins all the team gets otherwise is petulant whining over the radio and a face and manner like a smacked arse afterwards to the press.....

Edited by MinT, 05 October 2012 - 18:29.


#17 Fatgadget

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 18:36

The onbly issue I have with Hami making the switch to build a competitve team around him is tha.. whilxt he has shown he is a great, fast racer, he has shown very little in the way of being able to grasp, let alone put into practice, the skills necessary to pull a team around him - far from it.

Other than parrotting the same team friendly platitudes every time he wins all the team gets otherwise is petulant whining over the radio and a face and manner like a smacked arse afterwards to the press.....

I take it Michael Schumacher showed from the onset those 'team building characteristics' (whatever they are) lacking in Lewis Hamilton?


#18 F1Newbie

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 18:58

It seems to me people are expecting him to make Mercedes a winning car next year and if he doesn't, it will be a failure. I don't see no one calling Alonso's move to Ferrai an epic fail. He's been with them for 3 years now and he's yet to win a championship with them. Last year, Alonso only won 1 race with Ferrari. It's complicated to do what Schumacher did in Ferrari, not because of lack of skill from Hamilton or Alonso. Nowadays, there aren't unlimited testing like Schumacher used to enjoy. The objective for Lewis next year should be at least win a race and drive the sh*t out of the car like Alonso is doing now with Ferrari. If he can do that, he'll be doing great even if the car isn't a championship winning car.



#19 techspeed

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 20:57

I take it Michael Schumacher showed from the onset those 'team building characteristics' (whatever they are) lacking in Lewis Hamilton?

The 'team building characteristics' when Schumacher moved to Ferrari were Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne, and a free hand to do whatever it took to rebuild the team. The modern equivalent would be Vettel moving teams and taking Newey and Horner with him.

If Hamilton gets Mercedes into a regular race winning position or even challenging for the championship, it would show him to be considerable better than Schumacher at developing the team.

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#20 teejay

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:46

The 'team building characteristics' when Schumacher moved to Ferrari were Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne, and a free hand to do whatever it took to rebuild the team. The modern equivalent would be Vettel moving teams and taking Newey and Horner with him.

If Hamilton gets Mercedes into a regular race winning position or even challenging for the championship, it would show him to be considerable better than Schumacher at developing the team.


If it happens next year, not really.

He won walk in the doors until Jan 1, by then the car is pretty much done.

#21 F1ultimate

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 22:44

This video is the truth for those who are curious about what Lewis feels and has to say about his move to Mercedes.



:up:

#22 apoka

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:46

This video is the truth for those who are curious about what Lewis feels and has to say about his move to Mercedes.



:up:

Thanks for sharing. :up:

#23 BRG

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:01

Jacques Villeneuve tried that. Epic fail.

These things happen.

You do know that Lewis is moving to an established team, with race wins and championships to its credit, owned by a major manufacturer and using the best current engine? Whereas Jacques went to a brand new team set up by a pillock (sorry, I mean Pollock)?

Not even slightly similar....

#24 Bartel

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 19:32

You do know that Lewis is moving to an established team, with race wins and championships to its credit, owned by a major manufacturer and using the best current engine? Whereas Jacques went to a brand new team set up by a pillock (sorry, I mean Pollock)?

Not even slightly similar....

I wouldn't credit a Brawn one off championship paid for by millions and millions of Honda dollars, 3 wind tunnels, and a loophole a Mercedes championship.

#25 Peter Perfect

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 20:10

You do know that Lewis is moving to an established team, with race wins and championships to its credit, owned by a major manufacturer and using the best current engine? Whereas Jacques went to a brand new team set up by a pillock (sorry, I mean Pollock)?

Not even slightly similar....

Isn't Lewis moving from an established team, with race wins and championships to its credit and using the best current engine though?  ;)

In terms of technical bods Mercedes looks a good bet, the trick though will be to get everyone pulling in the same direction.

#26 Obi Offiah

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:28

This video is the truth for those who are curious about what Lewis feels and has to say about his move to Mercedes.



:up:

Well lets see what the future holds. I have a feeling that while he is struggling at Mercedes, Vettel and Alonso will be winning WDC's. In my opinion he isn't ready for the challenge he has set out for himself, perhaps in a lesser car the burden is eased as there is no expectation for him to challenge immediately for a WDC.
For a driver that wants to win and win multiple WDC's, I do find his decision strange. The challenge of winning multiple WDC's at McLaren has not been accomplished, its unfinished business.

#27 whitevisor

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:45

Well lets see what the future holds. I have a feeling that while he is struggling at Mercedes, Vettel and Alonso will be winning WDC's. In my opinion he isn't ready for the challenge he has set out for himself, perhaps in a lesser car the burden is eased as there is no expectation for him to challenge immediately for a WDC.
For a driver that wants to win and win multiple WDC's, I do find his decision strange. The challenge of winning multiple WDC's at McLaren has not been accomplished, its unfinished business.


That challenge is not possible in the current state of Mclaren.

1.) Best car, best driver, no mistakes... still no WDC. can't get any straight forward than that.
2.) Lewis Hamilton has ZERO influence over at Mclaren. It doesn't matter how good he drives he will never be a leader at Mclaren, so the challenge of which you speak is not valid.

#28 robefc

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:48

Well lets see what the future holds. I have a feeling that while he is struggling at Mercedes, Vettel and Alonso will be winning WDC's. In my opinion he isn't ready for the challenge he has set out for himself, perhaps in a lesser car the burden is eased as there is no expectation for him to challenge immediately for a WDC.
For a driver that wants to win and win multiple WDC's, I do find his decision strange. The challenge of winning multiple WDC's at McLaren has not been accomplished, its unfinished business.


I desperately hope that mercedes pull a surprise with a great car next year.

The thought of alonso and vettel having 6 championships by the end of the year between them or JB walking off with another one at macca is depressing the hell out of me.

I'm trying to remember how frustrating it must have been for alonso from 2007 onwards and how he/his fans must think if it wasn't for lewis he'd be at least 4xWDC already...kind of makes me stop thinking how annoying it is that for 3 years macca didn't build the quickest car/equal quickest car and then when they did clusterfucks and reliability issues have cocked it up...and that he won't be in the car next year when it will likely be equal quickest.

#29 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 23:19

I desperately hope that mercedes pull a surprise with a great car next year.

The thought of alonso and vettel having 6 championships by the end of the year between them or JB walking off with another one at macca is depressing the hell out of me.

I'm trying to remember how frustrating it must have been for alonso from 2007 onwards and how he/his fans must think if it wasn't for lewis he'd be at least 4xWDC already...kind of makes me stop thinking how annoying it is that for 3 years macca didn't build the quickest car/equal quickest car and then when they did clusterfucks and reliability issues have cocked it up...and that he won't be in the car next year when it will likely be equal quickest.



In order to get Hamilton to sign this must be the plan. Hamilton must be privy to info on the next Merc such that he believes that they can be front runners next year.

#30 Masenco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:25

In order to get Hamilton to sign this must be the plan. Hamilton must be privy to info on the next Merc such that he believes that they can be front runners next year.


Lewis has said pretty clearly a few times that he doesnt expect to chellenge for the wdc next year.

Although, like you, i am hoping that mercedes do up their game next year and lewis can do what alonsos done this year by consistently being on or around the podium

#31 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:28

Well lets see what the future holds. I have a feeling that while he is struggling at Mercedes, Vettel and Alonso will be winning WDC's. In my opinion he isn't ready for the challenge he has set out for himself, perhaps in a lesser car the burden is eased as there is no expectation for him to challenge immediately for a WDC.
For a driver that wants to win and win multiple WDC's, I do find his decision strange. The challenge of winning multiple WDC's at McLaren has not been accomplished, its unfinished business.


But I don't think staying at McLaren would be able to make him ready for that challenge. I'm coming round to the view that Lewis just needs to "leave home" for a bit, to fully mature as a driver.

#32 Niceone

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:52

I believe that 2013 season will be miserable for Hamilton. If they don't have car capable of winning at the beginning of the season Mercedes will most likely give up and focus on 2014 car (Similar to what Honda did at 2008). Big rule changes are coming and Mercedes could get huge advantage from engine knowledge (McLaren has to adapt to this new turbo engine while Mercedes can design their car around it from the beginning).

#33 ali.unal

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:08

I believe that 2013 season will be miserable for Hamilton. If they don't have car capable of winning at the beginning of the season Mercedes will most likely give up and focus on 2014 car (Similar to what Honda did at 2008). Big rule changes are coming and Mercedes could get huge advantage from engine knowledge (McLaren has to adapt to this new turbo engine while Mercedes can design their car around it from the beginning).

Perhaps they had already shifted focus solely on 2014 to do a "Brawn" and leveraged their position in luring Hamilton. Perhaps he already knows that 2013 will be a scruffy year.

#34 Burtros

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:12

I believe that 2013 season will be miserable for Hamilton. If they don't have car capable of winning at the beginning of the season Mercedes will most likely give up and focus on 2014 car (Similar to what Honda did at 2008). Big rule changes are coming and Mercedes could get huge advantage from engine knowledge (McLaren has to adapt to this new turbo engine while Mercedes can design their car around it from the beginning).


Im pretty sure the McLaren will know a fair amount about the Mercedes engine and will be designing a 2014 car for it. If you think that somethings going to turn up in Woking in a crate the day after the 2013 season ends then you are probably mistaken.

I think in the context of this thread, it would be fascinating to know how much of an advantage the works team get from knowing the engine a little earlier. Its fair to assume its been a big factor in Lewis move.

#35 Niceone

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:28

Im pretty sure the McLaren will know a fair amount about the Mercedes engine and will be designing a 2014 car for it. If you think that somethings going to turn up in Woking in a crate the day after the 2013 season ends then you are probably mistaken.

I think in the context of this thread, it would be fascinating to know how much of an advantage the works team get from knowing the engine a little earlier. Its fair to assume its been a big factor in Lewis move.

Thing is that this engine will be designed for what ever Mercedes F1 team has requested. They don't just know the engine earlier, they will have much deeper understanding.

#36 Burtros

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:30

do you know that or just guessing?

#37 Sinceref189

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:32

I believe that 2013 season will be miserable for Hamilton. If they don't have car capable of winning at the beginning of the season Mercedes will most likely give up and focus on 2014 car (Similar to what Honda did at 2008). Big rule changes are coming and Mercedes could get huge advantage from engine knowledge (McLaren has to adapt to this new turbo engine while Mercedes can design their car around it from the beginning).


Lewis knows what is expected of next year http://www.thesun.co...ext-season.html

#38 Niceone

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:33

do you know that or just guessing?

Just guessing. I mean it would be rather stupid to not use this kind of advantage.

#39 revlec

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:09

It seems to me people are expecting him to make Mercedes a winning car next year and if he doesn't, it will be a failure. I don't see no one calling Alonso's move to Ferrai an epic fail. He's been with them for 3 years now and he's yet to win a championship with them. Last year, Alonso only won 1 race with Ferrari. It's complicated to do what Schumacher did in Ferrari, not because of lack of skill from Hamilton or Alonso. Nowadays, there aren't unlimited testing like Schumacher used to enjoy. The objective for Lewis next year should be at least win a race and drive the sh*t out of the car like Alonso is doing now with Ferrari. If he can do that, he'll be doing great even if the car isn't a championship winning car.


:up: :up:
People is so brainwashed it's ridiculous.

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#40 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:19

IMO he doesn't have the leadership or team spirit qualities that Schumacher, Senna or Alonso posses(ed).

Prost was very tempermental but very politically cunning too. Almost always he had a psychological edge too. He totally mind f*cked Mansell at Ferrari. Outside of F1, Mansell could have snapped him like a twig.

Lewis has done too many juvenile things (burnout in OZ, telemetary picture, 'black' Ali-G joke, whining in press, Twitter/Button nonsense) to lead me to believe that he is mature enough to lead their team.

#41 Clatter

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:29

Hamilton's problem is the team. McLaren has done to many mistakes. Those who accept the mistakes can see that he is the best driver on the grid. These seasone proves it. The problem is that most people ignore or don't want to accept the team mistakes.
What is interesting, people continue to bring up his only mistake from 2010. But that year Alonso made mistakes in 6 races, but nobody keeps bringing them up.


Mercedes have made more and that's with the benefit of having MS there. If he couldn't turn the team around I'm really not sure how LH can.


#42 Kvothe

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:48

I don't know how many people have worked with, or know Lewis personally and so are qualified to speak about his leadership capabilities, but I'm going to assume their are a lot of angry McLaren mechanics, and friends of Lewis posting in this thread, with such well thought out, detailed analysis' of why his personality makes a stint at Mercedes untenable.

In my opinion I think that McLaren and its structure tends to discourage team leadership, and I think Lewis having been with the team since he was 13 years old needs to move to another team and find the room to grow. I can imagine that dealing with individuals could be frustrating as dealing with for example Parents who have a habit of seeing you as the boy you were, not the man you are. Lewis holds the record for spending the most amount of time (races) with his first team, and I think to an extent that has affected his maturity. A lot of drivers move on quickly to another team who are than able to work with them immediately, without the past baggage of having taught them and seen them grow, with opinions unclouded or uninfluenced by mistakes born of immaturity and inexperience. I think 6 years is enough, and from the past evidence its quite clear that operationally McLaren still seem incapable of challenging for the WDC on a consistent basis no matter how many race wins they rack up a year, so in terms of World Champions I don't think he is risking anything.

I don't expect a lot from Lewis and Mercedes in 2013, they might score a win but I think it will be a year more of building and integrating, than of instant success. Lewis will be trying to adapt to a world in which everything is different, expectations , the team philosophy, the heritage, the motivation and the role he is expected to play. There is no guarantee he'll make it, but from my perspective it will be fascinating to watch and see if he can adapt and assume the mantle of leadership, my only regret being that we'll not be privy to inside information on how he really adapts but instead be forced to make conclusions based on results.

Should be exciting next year, Lewis flogging a car is always a good sight, and I feel that Rosberg isn't as strong of an opponent as he once was.
Can he rise to the challenge? Yes
Will he? Let's find out!

#43 swerved

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:52

Thou shalt not hope, but believe and trust in TDG all the time. Hope is for the weak in faith.



:rotfl:


In answer to the question, No, I dont think he can.

Edited by swerved, 09 October 2012 - 12:55.


#44 undercut

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:05

IMO he doesn't have the leadership or team spirit qualities that Schumacher, Senna or Alonso posses(ed).

Prost was very tempermental but very politically cunning too. Almost always he had a psychological edge too. He totally mind f*cked Mansell at Ferrari. Outside of F1, Mansell could have snapped him like a twig.

Lewis has done too many juvenile things (burnout in OZ, telemetary picture, 'black' Ali-G joke, whining in press, Twitter/Button nonsense) to lead me to believe that he is mature enough to lead their team.


a burn out???big deal.and what whining in the press are you talking about?
and didnt alonso lose his cool with mclaren,and try to blackmail them?then he left...great leadership skills :up:


#45 goldenboy

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:14

I can totally understand how it would have been hard for him to try and build a team / be team leader like schuey did with ferrari while he is at mclaren. Firstly I get the impression they are not like that and secondly he was effectively raised by them.

#46 JimiKart

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:49

It's been pretty clear that the Hamsta has not displayed the skills required to do anything but drive fast, and I don't expect to see those skills showing up anytime soon, IMO there is no chance this move to Merc will end well for him.

#47 MinT

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 14:00

agree - hes a fast driver but has shown diminishing team skills with every season that passes. Wouldnt be surprised if its a short career with Merc and Nico shows him how to motivate and get a team behind you like JB did to him the last 3 years

#48 JRizzle86

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 14:23

Hamilton's problem is the team. McLaren has done to many mistakes. Those who accept the mistakes can see that he is the best driver on the grid. These seasone proves it. The problem is that most people ignore or don't want to accept the team mistakes.
What is interesting, people continue to bring up his only mistake from 2010. But that year Alonso made mistakes in 6 races, but nobody keeps bringing them up.


We expect much more of McLaren, therefore every single mistake is scrutinised.

Mercedes we almost expect to be average now so the mistakes don't come to the surface nearly as much.



#49 Buttoneer

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 14:26

Assuming you can even tell that he's shown diminishing team skills, there's nothing to say that a change of team and environment wouldn't make a huge difference. I found the blog/article by a McLaren engineer that someone posted quite interesting in that respect because in it he described a long association that saw the boy become a man and then some disillusionment that he changed over time. Having grown from boy to man at McLaren, perhaps there's a real benefit in going straight to Mercedes as a man?

#50 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 14:31

Right, MSC's three years at Merc, with his proven skills and abilities to lead and develop the car and team to the top didn't quite work... now Lewis is going to make it all happen?

-- Dream on. It is really down to the guys designing the car that it all hinges... all Lewis can hope for is that they will give him a competitive car to race in. The rest is just a fantasy land chatter.