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#1 Skellen

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:53

Currently most of the tracks present on the F1 calendar were designed by the famous circuit designer Hermann Tilke. Often criticised for being repetive and boring even by figures such as Sir Jackie Stewart his works has been always the reason of controversies. His works include the former A1 (now Red Bull Ring) in Austria, Sepang in Malaysia, Bahrain, Shanghai, Marina Bay in Singapore, Valencia, Abu Dhabi, Yeongam in Korea and Buddh in India and (soon) Austin in the USA. These ones are included in the current F1 calendar, but if you have an opinion about any other from his portfolio, feel free to include as well.

What do you think of them, and what are your the most/least favourite circuit designs by HT in F1?



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#2 Konsta

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:00

Currently most of the tracks present on the F1 calendar were designed by the famous circuit designer Hermann Tilke. Often criticised for being repetive and boring even by figures such as Sir Jackie Stewart his works has been always the reason of controversies. His works include the former A1 (now Red Bull Ring) in Austria, Sepang in Malaysia, Bahrain, Shanghai, Marina Bay in Singapore, Valencia, Abu Dhabi, Yeongam in Korea and Buddh in India and (soon) Austin in the USA. These ones are included in the current F1 calendar, but if you have an opinion about any other from his portfolio, feel free to include as well.

What do you think of them, and what are your the most/least favourite circuit designs by HT in F1?


The majority of them are dreadful - thoroughly designed instead of naturally flowing. Straight, hairpin, straight, med-speed corners in some mixture.

COTA seems a huge lot better than anything else even remotely connected to HT, Turkey wasn't bad either.

#3 Mandzipop

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:01

Not on this year's calendar, we on last year's and might be on next year (touted replacement if New Jersey doesn't happen). Turkey.

The problems were lack of regional infrastructure to make the race successful which meant lack of attendence.

#4 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:11

A1 is his only act of brilliance, the rest is shit.

#5 muramasa

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:13


I love Istanbul Park and Sepang.

#6 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:13

malaysia china turkey korea india austin

#7 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:13

for me, it's malaysia track. somehow i feel turkey (specially the famous corner) is overhyped. you can't overtake there, and most cars, due to high DF goes through there with ease, i'd preffer puohon over that. but malaysian track is tough and racy at the same time. it eats tire, requires good DF but at the same time requires good straight line spd.


i also think india is good too. i'm reserving my judgement on circuit of america, on paper it should be good, let's see.

#8 jeze

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:21

I like the flow of Malaysia and India, and also think Turkey is a good track, but apart from Turn 8 it's not too special. I also think the new Hockenheim is pretty much underrated as a unit, but it's only the old sections that are great, the sections Tilke designed just added some overtaking to an already brilliant stadium section and Turn 1.

#9 TheNewStig

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:22

Istanbul Park.

#10 wingwalker

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:24

Malaysia has some really great corners, but it's just so wide. Soooo Wiiiideeeeeee. I'd take A1 ring as at least it looked like a racing circuit, not lines painted on tarmac.

#11 Risil

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:24

Heh.

Er, Turkey is quite nice.

#12 montoyasminion

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:26

It's the one Bernie already abandoned - Turkey.

#13 katmen

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:26

sepang, Redbullring, long long nothing, turkeys turn 8

i am reserving my thoughts for austin, not driven by me in simulator yet

#14 Nonesuch

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:33

Favourite of these, which still isn't putting it up on a pedestal compared to other tracks by any means, would have to be Sepang.

#15 FNG

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:36

Sepang for sure is a great track. I gets shat on only because it was designed by Tilke. It's a fantastic track, one of my favourites.

#16 Anderis

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:40

Shanghai is probably my favourite F1 track recently. The last 3 races there were thoroughly unbelievable. This is what I want to watch in F1. :up:

I've mixed feeling about majority of other his tracks. Some of them are lacking something, for sure. But I'm not convinced if average Tilkedrom is that much worse than average no-Tilkedrom from current calendar. I've the group of my favourite circuits which include Shanghai, Albert Park, Montreal, Spa and Interlagos and this is based on how much I enjoy the most of the F1 races there. I don't particularly care about other circuits and wouldn't mind any changes in calendar which don't include one of my favourite circuits. Maybe bar replacing Hunaroring which is beyond the category in terms of lack of overtaking possibilities.

#17 sesku

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:42

Sepang no doubt. Turkey beside turn 8, there is not much to talk about.

EDIT: Shanghai pretty good in this couple years but I hate the haze and smog. Look very grey in TV.

Edited by sesku, 09 October 2012 - 17:44.


#18 encircled

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:49

Red Bull Ring, Turkey, Sepang.

#19 senna da silva

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:52

Turkey

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#20 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:00

Abu Dhabi :p

No I'm joking. It'll have to be Sepang I think. Istanbul was good too and I always liked Shanghai's layout. A1-Ring was good too but I don't consider it a full Tilke track, just a fairly good rescue of the Osterreichring.

Bahrain is too bland and point and squirt. Abu Dhabi is horrible. It's like the bonus track in a Playstation game. Have I missed any?

Oh I have. Yeah Buddh is not bad. I need to see another race there before I make up my mind. Yeongam I don't like apart from the flowing middle section.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 09 October 2012 - 18:04.


#21 BigCHrome

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:00

The tracks themselves are usually not bad, the problem is the scaredy cat rules that he has to abide by because of the FIA, and the horrible aerodynamic regulations that the teams insist on keeping, which prevent any close racing in high speed corners.

Sepang, Shanghai, Istanbul Park are all quite good, considering the setting Tilke was given.

India is kinda just the same thing as the others but it doesn't have its own style.

I don't like Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Hockenheim at all.

#22 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:01

Red bull ring (former A1 ring) is not really a tilkedome, it's just a modification, same case with hockenheimring,these were done when tilke were not so prominent and didn't had monopoly on design, they incorporated a lot of drivers input as well. so i don't count them as tilke-domes.

regarding chinese gp, the only bits i like is the Uzumaki-sktyle first-second coil spring corners. beside that, it's dull. also it's very long ... too long. but the reasons tilke gets bashed are those desert tracks (abu-dhabi/bahrain) and the god awefull monstrosity that's valencia street circuit.

#23 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:05

India is really great. Like, its a seriously good track.

I like a lot of other Tilke's tracks as well. People give him too much flak, not that he's completely undeserving of some of it.

Malaysia, Turkey, Aragon, Hockenheim, Singapore and Korea are quality tracks and I think the Austin one will get included in this after a season or two there.

And I know they get a lot of hate, some of it deserved, but even tracks like Bahrain, Valencia, China and Abu Dhabi have merits in my opinion.

Also, Moscow Raceway looked pretty good when watching World Superbikes there this year.



#24 Brandz07

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:08

India, Turkey, Red Bull Ring & Sepang.

COTA looks good too.

#25 Atreiu

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:45

Aragon is a Tilk-o-dome, right? Gets my vote.

#26 Kingshark

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:56

In no particular order:

Sepang
Shanghai
Buddh
Yeongam
Istambul
Aragon

#27 SpartanChas

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:03

For me driving on a simulator or F12012, got to be Turkey of COTA.

Watching a race though, got to be China or Malaysia.

#28 muramasa

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:16


Shanghai couldve been alot better if organizer (or whoever) hadnt made stupid request to design the track layout to resemble the chinese character "shang" of shanghai.

#29 brakedistance

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:25

The least crap is Istanbul Park

They are all universally awful. No flow and no sense of going anywhere - just glorified car parks

The beauty of Suzuka made it even more apparent how awful these tracks are

#30 midgrid

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:12

Previous poll for reference.

#31 Risil

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:40

Midgrid, do I detect a note of resentment? :p

#32 Longtimefan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:50

Has to be Turkey.

<3 Turn 8


#33 midgrid

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:02

Midgrid, do I detect a note of resentment? :p


Not at all! I just thought it would be helpful, as the old topic includes a poll. This topic is also about all the circuits designed by Tilke (Aragon has already featured), whereas the old one was about new F1 circuits, which would, er, theoretically include circuits not designed by Tilke if not for his monopoly.

But most importantly, I wouldn't have dreamed of starting another similar topic myself until at least one day after the inaugural Grand Prix held at the Circuit of the Americas... :p


#34 Skinnyguy

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:06

The "Tilke circuits suck" thing is just a mainstream dumb mantra.

There are good and bad Tilke circuits, and I dare saying the good ones are most of them: Malaysia is a masterpiece, so is Turkey. Corea is very nice, new Hockenheim is really good and it´s only underrated by nostalgia effect -had Tilke built that old straight/chicane/straigth/chicane/straight/chicane borefest...-. Bahrain is just racers heaven even if driving alone isn´t that fun, China is quite decent.

On the other hand, I don´t like Valencia too much, Singapore is terrible but no one could build good circuit there, and Abu Dhabi is a total failure.

#35 GSiebert

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:09

Sepang, because it looks natural, with sandtraps, grass, hills around the track for the spectators, and the layout is pretty ok, even though I don't like tracks being that wide. The rest of his tracks are awful, terrible layouts and ugly as sh*t.

Edited by GSiebert, 09 October 2012 - 21:11.


#36 King Six

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:28

Turkey and India stand out for me. I don't mind the Korean and Malaysian tracks. I think the Chinese track gets unnecessary hate. America (Texas) track looks ok, although I think it's a little too cut & paste from other tracks and doesn't seem unique.

I despise Abu Dhabi, Singapore, Valencia and I don't find anything interesting about Bahrain.

#37 Risil

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:35

Don't know about anyone else, but these days I look at Sepang with the same unjustified suspicion I imagine fans of other generations saw Hockenheim or Imola with. It's not a place I happily associate with racing anymore.

Edited by Risil, 09 October 2012 - 21:35.


#38 SpartanChas

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:36

Singapore isn't one of Tilke's.

#39 King Six

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:38

Singapore isn't one of Tilke's.

Tilke did the original layout and the design was modified afterwards. It was still worth putting in as the circuit is rubbish anyway.

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#40 GSiebert

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:50

Don't know about anyone else, but these days I look at Sepang with the same unjustified suspicion I imagine fans of other generations saw Hockenheim or Imola with. It's not a place I happily associate with racing anymore.

Well the track wasn't at fault in Simoncelli's accident.

#41 drag

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:54

Sepang

#42 MP422

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:57

Austin,Texas

#43 Risil

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 22:00

Well the track wasn't at fault in Simoncelli's accident.


Nope. But it's a place of sadness now.

#44 William Hunt

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 22:12

a list of all Tilke tracks:

1995 A1 Ring, Austria (renovation)
1999 Sepang International Circuit, Malaysia
2004 Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain
2004 Shanghai International Circuit, China
2005 Istanbul Park Racing Circuit, Turkey
2006 Cancun, Mexico (undeveloped)
2006 Beijing International Streetcircuit, China
2007 Bucharest Ring, Romania
2008 Marina Bay Street Circuit, Singapore
2008 Swedbank kartodroms, Latvia
2008 Valencia Street Circuit, Spain
2008 Jakarta Street Circuit, Indonesia
2009 Yas Marina Circuit, Abu Dhabi-United Arab Emirates
2009 Motorland Aragón, Alcañiz, Spain
2010 Dublin Street Circuit, Ireland (undeveloped)
2010 Korea International Circuit, South Korea
2010 Moscow Raceway, Russia
2010 Kazakhstan Motorcity, Kazakhstan
2010 Atlanta Motorsports Park, United States of America
2011 Buddh International Circuit, Greater Noida, India
2012 Circuit of the Americas, United States of America
2013 Port Imperial Street Circuit, United States of America
2013 Autodromo y Centro Cultural Motorpark, Chile
2014 Osijek - Tvrđa, Croatia (under construction)
2014 Bistra - Zagreb, Croatia (under construction)

#45 fisssssi

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 00:21

Is there no one else in the world who can design race tracks?

When was the last time a non-Tilke track was added to the calendar?

#46 Craven Morehead

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 00:55

Istanbul Park most definitely for me. That's a proper flowing racetrack & Tilke's best work imo.

#47 Jimisgod

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 00:57

Turkey. Then Malaysia.

The rest are awful and should be demolished.

#48 ViMaMo

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:46

Malaysia is good but feels just too wide. Austin looks like cut and paste. Turkey is nice. Chyna is boring.

Edited by ViMaMo, 10 October 2012 - 01:47.


#49 John Player

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:59

Malaysia

#50 Dauemannen

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:01

From driving in simulators, as well as F1 games, Istanbul Park wins hands down. It's actually one of my all time favourite tracks, second only to Spa among modern F1 tracks. It's so sad it's no longer on the calendar.

From watching F1 races it's probably still Istanbul Park, but now followed closely by Sepang and Shanghai. Korea and India look good too, but there have not been enough races to say for sure.