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#101 PayasYouRace

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:20

'Mickey mouse' circuit - that's the term that was used for such circuits. And one of the first MM-circuit was the Autodromo de la Ciudad de Mexico "Magdalena Mixhuca" built in 1962, now the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez.


Yeah not sure how you regard Mexico City as a Mickey Mouse circuit, considering it's got a massively long straight, series of fast challenging esses and a final corner than makes the Parabolica look tame. Sure it isn't Spa, but it's in a totally different league to Jarama.

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#102 Ali_G

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:25

'Mickey mouse' circuit - that's the term that was used for such circuits. And one of the first MM-circuit was the Autodromo de la Ciudad de Mexico "Magdalena Mixhuca" built in 1962, now the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez.


This is a joke right ? The esses have a beautiful flow and the Peraltada is an incredibly trick corner. And when it goes wrong there, it goes badly wrong.

#103 Ali_G

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:27

A very important aspect of the A1-Ring is that the basic layout of the track is the same as the Osterreichring it was built on top of, i.e. That square horseshoe shape using most of the same parts as before. What Tilke did right was not changing things too much. The link from T1-T2 was as straight as possible given the landscape, and the dangerous fast corners were tightened as simply is possible too.


He could have done something very stupid though. Damon Hill thought it wasn't a credible racing circuit as it only has 7 corners. Did Hill actually want him to add a chicane just for the sake of it or something ?

#104 PayasYouRace

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:37

He could have done something very stupid though. Damon Hill thought it wasn't a credible racing circuit as it only has 7 corners. Did Hill actually want him to add a chicane just for the sake of it or something ?


I haven't heard Damon's comments on in from back then so I can't comment on those. I'm glad Tilke didn't add in some sort of double hairpin combination somewhere or otherwise make it look like a go-kart track.

That's one of the problems with a lot of his new tracks. Too many corners. I think 10-15 for a track about 3.5 miles in length is about right. 20+ corners is too many for any track under 4 miles. I suspect that's why India (16 corners) is liked a bit more.

#105 Ali_G

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:04

I haven't heard Damon's comments on in from back then so I can't comment on those. I'm glad Tilke didn't add in some sort of double hairpin combination somewhere or otherwise make it look like a go-kart track.

That's one of the problems with a lot of his new tracks. Too many corners. I think 10-15 for a track about 3.5 miles in length is about right. 20+ corners is too many for any track under 4 miles. I suspect that's why India (16 corners) is liked a bit more.


The 2010 Bahrain GP took the piss in this respect. Used the longer variant of the circuit which contains 24 corners. Practically all of them slow corners. Another Tilke tracks that I absolutely despise in either variant.

#106 PayasYouRace

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:05

I did a quick analysis of corners per kilometre on all current tracks plus a few that have been mentioned. For tracks with official corner numbers I used that, for tracks with corner names I counted the corners using the Forix maps. I ignored street circuits because they are subject to the road layout. I still classify Montreal as a permanent track, though it is open to the public when not in use. Any corrections are welcome.

3.781 Abu Dhabi
3.739 Korea
3.651 Bahrain 2010
3.625 Texas
3.437 Barcelona 2007
3.423 Hungaroring
3.279 Hockenheim
3.121 India
3.112 Silverstone 1997
3.055 Silverstone 2010
3.016 Interlagos
2.980 Montreal
2.936 Barcelona 1995
2.935 Shanghai
2.927 Suzuka
2.913 Nurburgring
2.771 Bahrain Normal
2.712 Spa
2.706 Sepang
2.622 Istanbul
2.080 A1-Ring
2.071 Monza

Tilke tracks are in bold. I'm not sure if the modifications to the end of Barcelona were Tilke. I wonder if we can read much into this.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 13 October 2012 - 17:28.


#107 teejay

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:22

Abu Dubai should be wiped out and never spoken of again. It truly is a pathetic track to drive.

Singapore is good, but too wide.

New Hockenheim is great, but really, 50% of the track already existed.

s2 of Korea is awesome to drive in sims actually. S3 is a bit meh, and s1 too long for the sake of it.

India is a great track. Challenging and rewarding.

Turkey is great.

Bahrain ... not a fan.

#108 my_own_shadow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:47

This is a joke right ? The esses have a beautiful flow and the Peraltada is an incredibly trick corner. And when it goes wrong there, it goes badly wrong.

No, it's not a joke by any means. See this track from a view of half a century back, from contemporary point of the early 1960s. It was especially the esses part that was regarded (by drivers and contemporary journos) as silly and flat combinations of turns. The next such permanent Mickey mouse circuit would appear in World Drivers' Championship calendar in 1967 - Le Mans' Bugatti circuit.

#109 kissTheApex

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 18:28

Istanbul

#110 Bloggsworth

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 18:41

Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

#111 my_own_shadow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 18:50

Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

It is, indeed, the best out of worse that we are trying to determine. :drunk:

#112 LittleChris

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 20:58

Tilke should''ve been strung up by the balls for what he did on the site of the Osterreichring :mad:

The Red Bull Ring is a 2 bob sh!thole full of 2nd & 3rd gear corners and the very antithesis of the Osterreichring which was about speed, skill and bravery. The Mercedes, Sebring-Auspuff, Bosch, Texaco Schikane and Rindt curves were all topgear or 1 down from topgear corners and really showed who could drive a racing car and the slipstreaming resulting from the high speeds allowed a lot more overtaking than todays cadet kart track.

Jochen Rindt who advised the original designers of the O-Ring must be spinning in his grave.

#113 August

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:27

Turkey is the best Tilkedrome, excluding final corners, it has a good flow. Korea is 2nd best, that club circuit section is great excluding the stupid chicane at the end of the support pit straight. And the "street circuit" section isn't bad either. 90-degs aren't usually nice corners, yet as they are in succession in Korea, they are nice, you have to work all the time. Only the long straights are boring for driver, yet they make the circuit even bigger an engineering challenge, the car must be good in long straights, high-speed corners, and slow-speed corners.

Sepang is also a good track. But I have to say I wonder how come so many people think A1-Ring is good. I think it's quite boring a circuit with mainly hairpins and 90-degs. Only nice corners are in the middle section. On the other hand I'd love the old good Österreichring. Another Tilkedrome I wonder why so many people like about it is India. The first half of lap is mainly straights and hairpins. Then comes more challenging section, yet I'd prefer it to be faster. Not a bad circuit, but i don't regard it as one of the best either.

#114 Mauseri

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 00:50

What annoys me with tilke tracks is that all circuits consists of 3 sectors. 1 with long straiths and hairpins. Second with shorter straights and technical corners. 3rd with a fast mickey mouse sector. I have not driven any of them, but the basic elements seem to be everywhere.

#115 Orn

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 03:19

I have to say among his newer projects, Istanbul park to me seems like his best work and abu dhabi his worst.

#116 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:40

Turkey is the best Tilkedrome, excluding final corners, it has a good flow. Korea is 2nd best, that club circuit section is great excluding the stupid chicane at the end of the support pit straight. And the "street circuit" section isn't bad either. 90-degs aren't usually nice corners, yet as they are in succession in Korea, they are nice, you have to work all the time. Only the long straights are boring for driver, yet they make the circuit even bigger an engineering challenge, the car must be good in long straights, high-speed corners, and slow-speed corners.

Sepang is also a good track. But I have to say I wonder how come so many people think A1-Ring is good. I think it's quite boring a circuit with mainly hairpins and 90-degs. Only nice corners are in the middle section. On the other hand I'd love the old good Österreichring. Another Tilkedrome I wonder why so many people like about it is India. The first half of lap is mainly straights and hairpins. Then comes more challenging section, yet I'd prefer it to be faster. Not a bad circuit, but i don't regard it as one of the best either.


You mean exactly like Korea?


What annoys me with tilke tracks is that all circuits consists of 3 sectors. 1 with long straiths and hairpins. Second with shorter straights and technical corners. 3rd with a fast mickey mouse sector. I have not driven any of them, but the basic elements seem to be everywhere.


Mickey Mouse means slow, point and squirt type stuff. Not sure what you mean there.

#117 midgrid

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:45

He could have done something very stupid though. Damon Hill thought it wasn't a credible racing circuit as it only has 7 corners. Did Hill actually want him to add a chicane just for the sake of it or something ?


I've seen a draft design for the A1-Ring in a 1995 issue of Autosport which does indeed include pointless chicanes and slower entries to the new corners. I'll scan and upload it later on if I can find it.

#118 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:54

I've seen a draft design for the A1-Ring in a 1995 issue of Autosport which does indeed include pointless chicanes and slower entries to the new corners. I'll scan and upload it later on if I can find it.


This one? http://theracingline...1Ring1994p.html

#119 midgrid

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:49

This one? http://theracingline...1Ring1994p.html


Yes, it was practically identical to that. Thank goodness it wasn't built.

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#120 Disgrace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:57

Well it ain't Korea. Korea/India/Abu Dhabi back-to-back looks like it might just kill this championship.

#121 August

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:27

This one? http://theracingline...1Ring1994p.html


Thank God they didn't build that, at least the current track doesn't have Mickey Mouse corners. But as I said previously, track with mainly straights, hairpins, and 90-degs doesn't inspire me, I'd prefer this, if only they left away those stupid Mickey Mouse corners before Remus.

Well it ain't Korea. Korea/India/Abu Dhabi back-to-back looks like it might just kill this championship.


Do you mean those are too similar tracks? Well, Korea and India somewhat are, but they still have high-speed corners unlike Abu Crappy.

Anyway, I think we have too many too similar tracks. I'd love there to be more different tracks, that might mean there'd be different teams on top on different circuits.

#122 adam1312

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:52

india, great track for racing and driving