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Jenson Button and Mclaren 2013 onwards


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#251 SCUDmissile

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 22:24

The thing is, as you can see from the points this year, last year and 2010 that Button is nowhere near the leader. Granted in 2011 nobody was, but still...
The practice sessions just showed how close it is between the 3 teams, (when Ferrari don't put their car development on hold)
And from next year, McLaren's competition for the WDC will be Alonso at Ferrari, who are getting the blocks together for 2014 and are getting better, and Vettel at RedBull who are just taking the sport by storm. Then there is also Kimi at Lotus now used to his surroundings and Lewis at Mercedes maybe doing what he wanted to and make it a competitive car.

If you think Button/Perez can beat these guys then fair enough, he can take the WDC. But personally I think it will be awfully hard to beat Alonso and Vettel unless he gets a RB7, at least in the short term.


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#252 weareracing

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 22:35

Leaving Jenson aside for one moment the equation for 2013 for McLaren boils down to :-
Lost Lewis, Gained Sergio.
Chances for silverware improved or not?
I know what I think.

#253 speng

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 00:26

So basically the Lewis fans want Jenson to fail next year. We get it.

No, I think it is more of accessing his abilities compared to Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton (if he has the car). Having said that Button is good driver.

#254 Rinehart

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 00:33

You say that like qualifying is more important than the race.


Most of Lewis fans think qualifying is more important than the race.
That's whats keeping me amused!

#255 Rinehart

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 00:54

Jenson has already won a WDC
In their time at Mclaren together, Jenson has finished 2nd in the standings, Lewis hasn't
In their time together, Jenson and Lewis have scored virtually identical number of points
So
Jenson has proven he can do it
Jenson has proven he can lead Mclaren
Jenson has proven his craft and consistency overall equals Hamiltons raw pace and inconsistency
It is beyond doubt that Jenson can do it and the idea that the Mclaren would need to be a rocketship must then also be applied to Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso cos I don't see any of them winning the title without a great car either, the top 4 drivers are so close.

#256 gricey1981

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:13

Jenson has already won a WDC
In their time at Mclaren together, Jenson has finished 2nd in the standings, Lewis hasn't
In their time together, Jenson and Lewis have scored virtually identical number of points
So
Jenson has proven he can do it
Jenson has proven he can lead Mclaren
Jenson has proven his craft and consistency overall equals Hamiltons raw pace and inconsistency
It is beyond doubt that Jenson can do it and the idea that the Mclaren would need to be a rocketship must then also be applied to Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso cos I don't see any of them winning the title without a great car either, the top 4 drivers are so close.


You mean he has proven he can lead Mclaren the wrong way down set up alley

Finishing 2nd last year meant nothing - he never had a chance at the championship.

Still to be fair Ill probably end up supporting him next year. Ill support Lewis 1st but if Jenson wins it next year than that'll be cool too. Id rather a british guy win it rather than Seb or Fred.

#257 moorsey

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:56

Most of Lewis fans think qualifying is more important than the race.
That's whats keeping me amused!


Jenson certainly has a chance to prove your point this weekend. :stoned:

#258 mlsnoopy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:03

It looks like 2013 will be a painfull year for a McLaren fan.

#259 BernieEc

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:07

Button has fallen out of the points due to poor qualifying every year he has been at McLaren at one time or another - he had a good run at the tail end of last year and this has knocked his points tally up - but he has also had horrific downs. While we shouldn't ignore his good results - we shouldn't also white wash his bad ones. I made the point a while ago, a champion needs to either not finish a race or bring home points - Button does not fit into this bracket - his 'happy' window is too narrow and McLaren are yet to build a car for all seasons that will suit every track meaning that even if he does not lose his way on set up again - there will be races when he just cannot get the car where he wants it.

Like it or not - there is huge disapointment in McLaren for many reasons right now - even if Button does great next year - Perez is going to have to perform far far better than he has been seen to do in order for a WCC to sit at McLaren at the end of next year. If McLaren (which they won't) put everything behind Button from day 1 - there is a slim chance he could challenge for a WDC but against Alonso or Vettel with complete support from their respective teams/team-mates and good cars I do not give him a cat in hells chance.


That just made laugh as it reminded me of as it reminded me of Martin Whitmarsh and his "the pirellis have a narrow operating window to extract the optimum performance from them"......... :)

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#260 Kvothe

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:09

Most of Lewis fans think qualifying is more important than the race.
That's whats keeping me amused!


Still amused?

Sorry, couldn't help myself :)

#261 jrg19

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:11

Amusing.

I just hope we can give the drivers a mega car next year, otherwise its going to be a long old season :well:

#262 oligc94

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:28

Amusing.

I just hope we can give the drivers a mega car next year, otherwise its going to be a long old season :well:


I think McLaren fans probably need to get used to this sort of thing.... :cry:

#263 Force Ten

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:31

Still amused?

Sorry, couldn't help myself :)

2 months and eighteen days. Time isn't running fast enough.

#264 topical

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:36

Whitmarsh and Ron must be delighted to have Jenson leading the team in 2013. They can look forward to plenty more sessions like this. Expect a very strong push for Vettel (if he's not at Ferrari) for 2014.

#265 Dalton007

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:45

Whitmarsh and Ron must be delighted to have Jenson leading the team in 2013. They can look forward to plenty more sessions like this. Expect a very strong push for Vettel (if he's not at Ferrari) for 2014.


It will be a different car next season, slightly different tyres, so who knows...


#266 Wingnut

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:12

It looks like 2013 will be a painfull year for a McLaren fan.



#267 Fatgadget

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:23

So basically the Lewis fans want Jenson to fail next year. We get it.

Im sure the same applies to every other driver fanboy! :D

#268 10e10

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:49

Amusing.

I just hope we can give the drivers a mega car next year, otherwise its going to be a long old season :well:


x2

#269 ZooL

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:07

Well we have the 'can Lewis lead Mercedes' thread.

So thought id throw this out there for discussion.

IS JB fast enough to lead Mclaren short of them having a Brawn year? Will it be a mistake to have JB as the lead driver or as some posters have stated - it will be beneficiary as the team will operate more harmoniously.

Personally I don't think JB can take it to an on song Red Bull in the hands of Vettel or the Ferrari in the hands of Fred.

This year's car would have been seen as a bit of a failure if JBs results were the only ones looked at.

He doesn't need to lead McLaren. McLaren don't require a driver to lead them.
Button won't be decreasing the drag coefficient.
Button won't be increasing the downforce levels.
All McLaren need is to have their driver on pole and drive the car fast consistently.

Just by having Hamilton out of the way will automatically mean Button will capture more points because he'll be higher up the grid and don't have to compete with a faster teamate.

I personally think Button isn't quick enough to compete with Alonso and Vettel. Qualifying is half the battle won and he is too slow on a Saturday. He've never actually genuinely challenged for the WDC at McLaren either, he's always been out mathmatically before there's a race still to go whereas Hamilton has been in it 2 out of 3 I think.

So in terms of Championship challenges as thats the ultimate barometer, still mathmatically in the WDC going into the last race at McLaren:
Button 0 out of 2 seasons, soon to be 0 out of 3 seasons.

He'll win races though next year I'm sure, McLaren always do get 1 or 2 of the breadcrumbs.

#270 purpleturtle

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:09

2013 McLaren is a similar scenario to 2002 McLaren. World champion Hakkinen (Hamilton) left the team and rookie Raikkonen (Perez) joined number 2 Coulthard (Button). McLaren won 1 race that season.

On the bright side 2002 trained up Raikkonen nicely to challenge for the championship in '03... perhaps 2013 could make Perez world-class.

Edited by purpleturtle, 13 October 2012 - 12:12.


#271 BillBald

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:49

For me the events at Korea confirm that McLaren really need to sort out their race operations.

Admittedly Jenson was to blame for messing up his first run in Q2, but why on earth did they wait until the very end of the session before sending him out again?

If he'd been marginal on pace for getting into Q3, you might have said there was some point in delaying the 2nd run (track more rubbered-in) but all Jenson needed was a clean lap. If he'd gone out 2 or 3 minutes earlier, he would have been the first to get his final run in.

Once again, this is NOT hindsight.



#272 Force Ten

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:56

2013 McLaren is a similar scenario to 2002 McLaren. World champion Hakkinen (Hamilton) left the team and rookie Raikkonen (Perez) joined number 2 Coulthard (Button). McLaren won 1 race that season.

Always nice to meet people with time machines.

#273 undersquare

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:59

The Renaults were in the same position though.

#274 BillBald

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 13:17

The Renaults were in the same position though.


Are you saying that the Lotus drivers were in the same position as Jenson?

Clearly not, their underlying pace was slower, they needed to wait until the track was at its best.





#275 tifosiMac

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 13:22

The funny thing about this thread is that for some reason many Hamilton fans want Button to fail in 2013. And they want Perez to beat him in qualifying and in points. Considering the Button/Hamilton battle will be essentially a draw (excuses aside - only points and wins matter) you'd think they'd want Button to look good in the future to validate their man. If Perez really does "destroy" Button then he has done what Lewis could not.

I don't want to see Button fail but I certainly don't want to see Button and McLaren win the championship next year. I'd be very disappointed at that. If we are not allowed to compare circumstances from their years together then of course its easy to call it a draw up to this point. Coincidently if Lewis finishes ahead of Jenson this year it'll hardly be a draw. It will be close but Jenson will be beaten nonetheless. Button has done better than many expected and has been closer to Lewis in the points than I would have liked, but there has never been any question as to who has been the better driver IMO. McLaren have Button now as team leader so there is no excuses. Unless Perez comes in and has the pace Lewis has shown, they have no excuses and this is Jenson's chance to mould the team around him. Perez is a good driver but is still unproven and has made mistakes when in good positions. He's still learning and if McLaren treat him with the respect he deserves unlike what they did with Alonso and Heikki, I think he will improve a great deal.

#276 Mandzipop

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 13:27

2013 McLaren is a similar scenario to 2002 McLaren. World champion Hakkinen (Hamilton) left the team and rookie Raikkonen (Perez) joined number 2 Coulthard (Button). McLaren won 1 race that season.

On the bright side 2002 trained up Raikkonen nicely to challenge for the championship in '03... perhaps 2013 could make Perez world-class.


The difference was that Kimi hadn't driven 38 races. Sergio is no rookie no matter how you look at it. To prove he is the real deal he will need to perform as well as Seb in 2009 when he joined Red bull. Seb was even less experienced than Perez when he joined. So if Sergio isn't matching Jenson then Mclaren will have an issue.

Jenson shouldn't have to lead the team from a driver perspective. The only thing he should have in his favour is maturity and knowing the team.

#277 jjcale

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:55

The difference was that Kimi hadn't driven 38 races. Sergio is no rookie no matter how you look at it. To prove he is the real deal he will need to perform as well as Seb in 2009 when he joined Red bull. Seb was even less experienced than Perez when he joined. So if Sergio isn't matching Jenson then Mclaren will have an issue.

Jenson shouldn't have to lead the team from a driver perspective. The only thing he should have in his favour is maturity and knowing the team.

did you watch the last race  ;)

Seriously though, Macca will be fine... JB is a top class driver (even if he is a bit sensitive to changes in the car) and SP shows all the signs of being a very good and very professional driver.... its what the engineers do that will be really important ... and they seem to be on top of these current regulations.

Edited by jjcale, 13 October 2012 - 14:55.


#278 undersquare

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:24

Are you saying that the Lotus drivers were in the same position as Jenson?

Clearly not, their underlying pace was slower, they needed to wait until the track was at its best.

What I meant was they also hit the yellow, but it didn't affect them as badly. Why? Because they backed off less. And they backed off less because they're more aggressive - more typical F1 drivers.

This is McLaren's big problem: their lead driver next year isn't aggressive. He needs to be given a car he can guide beautifully round the circuit, with not too many obstacles, and still come in first.

#279 Watkins74

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:33

2013 is going to be brutal. What is the over/under on the "if Lewis was still in that McLaren" posts are we going to have? 4,000?

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#280 MirNyet

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:40

Most of Lewis fans think qualifying is more important than the race.
That's whats keeping me amused!


Perhaps you should look at how many races this year have been won from the front row of the grid. On many tracks these days Quali sets the result. Fail to qualify well, fail to have the chance to score a good result. And as we all know, points make prizes.

Today isn't an eye opener with regards to Button and Qualifying - and in a McLaren that is a shocking admission. Unless he starts to Qualify better (considering Perez is also not a great Qualifier) then he isn't winning anything of note next year - or any of the following years.

Also, people may also care to note that Button has two Mercedes cars in front of him on the grid - and that is without Hamliton sitting in either of them...

#281 undersquare

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:40

2013 is going to be brutal. What is the over/under on the "if Lewis was still in that McLaren" posts are we going to have? 4,000?

2013 is going to be a lot BETTER. Lewis and Jenson can do well or badly and it can be the car. The people who are predisposed to find fault with Hamilton will have to attach themselves to Rosberg instead.

#282 Raziel

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:46

I don't want to see Button fail but I certainly don't want to see Button and McLaren win the championship next year. I'd be very disappointed at that. If we are not allowed to compare circumstances from their years together then of course its easy to call it a draw up to this point. Coincidently if Lewis finishes ahead of Jenson this year it'll hardly be a draw. It will be close but Jenson will be beaten nonetheless. Button has done better than many expected and has been closer to Lewis in the points than I would have liked, but there has never been any question as to who has been the better driver IMO. McLaren have Button now as team leader so there is no excuses. Unless Perez comes in and has the pace Lewis has shown, they have no excuses and this is Jenson's chance to mould the team around him. Perez is a good driver but is still unproven and has made mistakes when in good positions. He's still learning and if McLaren treat him with the respect he deserves unlike what they did with Alonso and Heikki, I think he will improve a great deal.


I don't think that will happen. They (McLaren) will do everything in their power to accommodate their new driver Sergio. They did this with Raikkonen (when he arrived to McLaren to face their long time driver Coulthard), Hamilton (when he started his F1 journey against double World champion), Button (when he arrived to face their long time driver and their champion Hamilton) and we'll see the same with Sergio when he arrive alongside their 3 years old Button. For them, both drivers will be equal from the start and it is the right thing to do, it's fair. They'll do everything to satisfy their new "toy" Sergio because all drivers are just that for them, "the toys". They want to see both their drivers winning poles, races, podiums and if possible championships. They'll keep operating the same way they've always operated.



#283 boldhakka

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:48

I don't think that will happen. They (McLaren) will do everything in their power to accommodate their new driver Sergio. They did this with Raikkonen (when he arrived to McLaren to face their long time driver Coulthard), Hamilton (when he started his F1 journey against double World champion), Button (when he arrived to face their long time driver and their champion Hamilton) and we'll see the same with Sergio when he arrive alongside their 3 years old Button. For them, both drivers will be equal from the start and it is the right thing to do, it's fair. They'll do everything to satisfy their new "toy" Sergio because all drivers are just that for them, "the toys". They want to see both their drivers winning poles, races, podiums and if possible championships. They'll keep operating the same way they've always operated.


:up:

#284 MirNyet

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:49

I don't think that will happen. They (McLaren) will do everything in their power to accommodate their new driver Sergio. They did this with Raikkonen (when he arrived to McLaren to face their long time driver Coulthard), Hamilton (when he started his F1 journey against double World champion), Button (when he arrived to face their long time driver and their champion Hamilton) and we'll see the same with Sergio when he arrive alongside their 3 years old Button. For them, both drivers will be equal from the start and it is the right thing to do, it's fair. They'll do everything to satisfy their new "toy" Sergio because all drivers are just that for them, "the toys". They want to see both their drivers winning poles, races, podiums and if possible championships. They'll keep operating the same way they've always operated.


Completely agree - what will be interesting is if this messes with Buttons head - he seems to think he is just going to walk straight into a No.1 status next year.

#285 PinkZepStones

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:50

Mclaren shafted Prost for Senna, shafted Alonso for Hamilton and seemingly and possibly shafted Hamilton when Button came along, if Button or anyone else isnt slightly worried that history will for about the 15th time repeat itsself with Button be prepared for the worst.

The team doesnt even shaft the lesser driver it just harps on about the newest one whether better or not.

#286 tarmac

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:08

http://www1.skysport...n-Whitmarsh-Q-A

"We enjoy working with Jenson and now having the experience of Jenson and the youth and developability of Sergio what an exciting challenge for us next year. Maybe we are wrong, maybe it won't work out for us. But the aim is to be winning from the first race and I think we can do that."


"Maybe we are wrong" hmm

#287 teejay

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:10

Have to have a way out just incase.

I think he will do ok, but if he flops I dare say its Whitmarsh's head on the block.

#288 Force Ten

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:42

I think he will do ok, but if he flops I dare say its Whitmarsh's head on the block.

Then again how would you define "flop"? Is it for instance having his new, overall vastly less rated teammate performing in roughly equal manner to the incumbent team leader?

#289 thesham01

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:53

Jenson has already won a WDC
In their time at Mclaren together, Jenson has finished 2nd in the standings, Lewis hasn't
In their time together, Jenson and Lewis have scored virtually identical number of points
So
Jenson has proven he can do it
Jenson has proven he can lead Mclaren
Jenson has proven his craft and consistency overall equals Hamiltons raw pace and inconsistency
It is beyond doubt that Jenson can do it and the idea that the Mclaren would need to be a rocketship must then also be applied to Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso cos I don't see any of them winning the title without a great car either, the top 4 drivers are so close.


The most nonsense I've seen in a post in a long time.

Button has never challenged for a WDC in his time at McLaren, and the car has been good enough 2 seasons out of the 3. While his teammate has challenged twice. Add to that qualifying like today, and you have 2013 trouble for McLaren.

The more I think about it, the more I think Perez will give him a close run for his money.



#290 P123

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:00

The most nonsense I've seen in a post in a long time.

Button has never challenged for a WDC in his time at McLaren, and the car has been good enough 2 seasons out of the 3. While his teammate has challenged twice. Add to that qualifying like today, and you have 2013 trouble for McLaren.

The more I think about it, the more I think Perez will give him a close run for his money.


I don't see much wrong with it. JB's consistant points collecting certainly makes up for any speed deficiency vs LH occassionally getting himself involved in trouble and throwing away good points (mainly in 2011). As for challenging for a WDC, this season has been the only real chance, and McLaren dropped the ball as well as JB.

Will Perez run JB close? Not over the season. In a way I feel a tad sorry for Perez as all we have heard from Whitmarsh is nonense about 'developability', 'growing', 'honing'..... the poor guy will be suffocated if they're not careful to let him be himself.

#291 topical

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:01

http://www1.skysport...n-Whitmarsh-Q-A



"Maybe we are wrong" hmm


They are sh*ting themselves already. :rotfl:

#292 AlanK

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:04

Why is that post nonsense?
Rinehart`s post can be backed up by statistics.
As for you stating Jenson has never challenged for the title, he was 1 of 5 challenging up until the penultimate race in 2010
Lewis`s downfall will never be his speed. It is and will always be his attitude. Sulking child who has been managed rather than fathered.

Edited by AlanK, 13 October 2012 - 17:04.


#293 thesham01

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:16

I don't see much wrong with it. JB's consistant points collecting certainly makes up for any speed deficiency vs LH occassionally getting himself involved in trouble and throwing away good points (mainly in 2011). As for challenging for a WDC, this season has been the only real chance, and McLaren dropped the ball as well as JB.

Will Perez run JB close? Not over the season. In a way I feel a tad sorry for Perez as all we have heard from Whitmarsh is nonense about 'developability', 'growing', 'honing'..... the poor guy will be suffocated if they're not careful to let him be himself.


What gets me is people rate Hamilton off the 2011 season, a complete anomaly in his career. Hamilton is the 2007, 2008, 2009 (although hard to stand out with that McLaren), 2010 and 2012 Hamilton. He doesn't through away as many points as his reputation on these forums say he does.

Add to that the only run of races Button has ever held the advantage was the second half of 2011, when the WDC was completely over. To say Rhineharts views are an over-simplification is an understatement.

Now people like Witness are saying Button might have had the advantage over Hamilton next year. Based on what? Even in 2011 Button was never faster than Hamilton for a run of races. He beat him by outlasting, and even then only for half a season. The evidence is not there in any way, shape or form to suggest Button is going to improve next year. That's the cold, hard truth.

Edited by thesham01, 13 October 2012 - 17:18.


#294 bub

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:19

Will Perez run JB close? Not over the season. In a way I feel a tad sorry for Perez as all we have heard from Whitmarsh is nonense about 'developability', 'growing', 'honing'..... the poor guy will be suffocated if they're not careful to let him be himself.


I've also heard Whitmarsh say Pérez is no apprentice and he hopes/expects him to win/challenge from the 1st race. I also think they'll do their best to help Pérez succeed so losing Hamilton doesn't look like a huge mistake. Button will likely have more pressure placed on him as the more senior driver who they expect more from but I don't think he'll have any no.1 driver type preferential treatment. He might even get neglected slightly as the team pour more resources behind Pérez as he's the less experienced guy who needs more help.

Edited by bub, 13 October 2012 - 17:20.


#295 teejay

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:28

Then again how would you define "flop"? Is it for instance having his new, overall vastly less rated teammate performing in roughly equal manner to the incumbent team leader?


You cant put a number on it... but we will know.

I mean if Jenson wins a couple of races, podiums etc, and Sergio isnt getting into Q3 etc.. we will know.

Im a McLaren guy longer than Ive ever been a Lewis guy so I hope its not the case.

#296 olliek88

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:31

What gets me is people rate Hamilton off the 2011 season, a complete anomaly in his career. Hamilton is the 2007, 2008, 2009 (although hard to stand out with that McLaren), 2010 and 2012 Hamilton. He doesn't through away as many points as his reputation on these forums say he does.

Add to that the only run of races Button has ever held the advantage was the second half of 2011, when the WDC was completely over. To say Rhineharts views are an over-simplification is an understatement.

Now people like Witness are saying Button might have had the advantage over Hamilton next year. Based on what? Even in 2011 Button was never faster than Hamilton for a run of races. He beat him by outlasting, and even then only for half a season. The evidence is not there in any way, shape or form to suggest Button is going to improve next year. That's the cold, hard truth.


China 2007
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Canada 2008
France 2008
Japan 2008
Italy 2009
Italy 2010
Singapore 2010
Malaysia 2011
Monaco 2011
Canada 2011
Belgium 2011
Singapore 2011
Valencia 2012

Points he's thrown away. Thats a balls up every 7 and a half races.

#297 thesham01

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:36

China 2007
Bahrain 2008
Canada 2008
France 2008
Japan 2008
Italy 2009
Italy 2010
Singapore 2010
Malaysia 2011
Monaco 2011
Canada 2011
Belgium 2011
Singapore 2011
Valencia 2012

Points he's thrown away. Thats a balls up every 7 and a half races.


You think he was at fault for all those? Canada 2011? Valencia 2012?

You'll have to try a little harder than that.

Plus this thread is about Button and his inability to lead McLaren next year to the WDC.

Edited by thesham01, 13 October 2012 - 17:38.


#298 MinT

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:49

Plus this thread is about Button and his inability to lead McLaren next year to the WDC.


Its not actually - but we know your agenda anyway without needing to flag it up :lol:

This thread is about JB and McLaren next year - ability or otherwise.

Edited by MinT, 13 October 2012 - 17:49.


#299 thesham01

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:52

Its not actually - but we know your agenda anyway without needing to flag it up :lol:

This thread is about JB and McLaren next year - ability or otherwise.


:lol:

Fair enough.

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#300 olliek88

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 17:53

You think he was at fault for all those? Canada 2011? Valencia 2012?

You'll have to try a little harder than that.

Plus this thread is about Button and his inability to lead McLaren next year to the WDC.


Of course some are not 100% his fault (although Canada is IMO) but he has to take a portion of the blame for them.

Jenson is more than able, Lewis clearly can't, he's jumping ship. It interesting that Mclaren have got better season by season since JB joined, they're were regressing between 2007 - 2009 when Lewis was leading the team but have moved closer to the front since 2010 when Jenson joined. Those are the cold hard facts.  ;)