Jump to content


Photo

Rate the driver's 2012 thus far.


  • Please log in to reply
142 replies to this topic

#1 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,662 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:02

Ok, I saw the typical fighting, whinging, moaning and sarcasm you get when any media thing releases judgments on the performance of drivers - X should be higher, No X should be lower, X is getting favoured, X got hit in the X by Grosjean - well stump up and offer your 'rating'. To be fair, make it out of 100 like a percentage (1 worst driver ever, 100 absolutely perfect) and this is performance compared to car etc.

Alonso - 90
Raikkonen - 89 (Quali is the chink in his armor)
Perez - 88
Hamilton - 86
Vettel - 84
Kobayashi - 82
Rosberg - 80
Button - 79
Di Resta - 78
Ricciardo - 78
Webber - 77
Pic - 77
Schumacher - 76 (Mistakes in Singapore, Hungary, Spain cost him.)
Hulkenberg - 76
Glock - 75
Kovalainen - 75
Maldonado - 72
de la Rosa - 70
Petrov - 69
Vergne - 65
Grosjean - 63
Massa - 57
Senna - 51
Karthekayen - 42

Edited by Jimisgod, 10 October 2012 - 18:06.


Advertisement

#2 RayInTorontoCanada

RayInTorontoCanada
  • Member

  • 570 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:17

Alonso - 90
Raikkonen - 89 (Quali is the chink in his armor)
Perez - 88
Hamilton - 86
Vettel - 84
Kobayashi - 82
Rosberg - 80
Button - 79


Perez ahead of Hamilton and Vettel?

That's a joke. He's made more mistakes than both Hamilton and Vettel combined. Checo's also under-qualified the car way too often to be 3rd on that list!

Kobayashi 5th?

Really? Is that why he's about to get the boot by Ms Kaltenborn? Again, too many mistakes.

Rosberg 6th?

Wow. It's not 2010 or 2011. It's 2012...a year in which a 44 year old re-retiring Schuey has made him look ordinary.

Button 7?

The guy was invisible through a chunk of the middle of the season.

I don't put Kimi 2nd.

I put Kimi 4th.

To me it's

=1 Alonso
=1 Hamilton
=1 Vettel

(Alphabetical Order)

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 10 October 2012 - 18:19.


#3 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,814 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:19

I may be biased but I don't know how you have Hamilton fourth below Perez, Raikkonen and now Alonso.

I think before Suzuka I would have had Alonso 1st, but Japan was a crucial Championship error, and so unfortunately I would have had to put him second, behind Hamilton.

Hamilton has been the only driver to have made it into Q3 in every session, and the only one of the championship contenders (Kimi aside) not to have committed an error on track that had led to a non points scoring finish, he's also still in the championship despite being hit by F1's equivalent of the plagues of Egypt, having had the worst luck of any of the front runners, he has been pace and consistency personified.

You have Perez way too high, his last two podiums have come as a result of failing to make it into Q3, has generally been slower than his team mate, and as seen on Sunday still seems to lack something in wheel to wheel situations.

Raikkonen a bit too high if you consider where his 'rookie' team mate has been able to place the car in qualifying.

You have Rosberg too high, if you take into account how he has been beaten on raw pace by Michael this year.

I would swap Di resta and Hulkenberg around, particularly when you consider that Hulkenberg when he has not had technical problems has been beating Di resta pretty consistently despite having had a year out. Japan was another excellent performance.

JB too high, after the middle part of the season he's had.

Massa a bit too low considering the pace he's shown, and the points scored from Hungary onwards.

Edited by Kvothe, 10 October 2012 - 18:26.


#4 olliek88

olliek88
  • Member

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:21

I understand mid season ratings but why do it with 5 races to go? Might as well wait till the end of the season and give them a full review of the entire season.

#5 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,814 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:21

Perez ahead of Hamilton and Vettel?



=1 Alonso
=1 Hamilton
=1 Vettel

(Alphabetical Order)


Vettel's inconsistency in qualifying at the beginning of the year, plus various on track incidents with Karthikeyan in Malaysia, speeding under yellows in Spain and Button in Germany are reasons I wouldn't be able to rate Vettel quite up there with Hamilton and Alonso although he would be third.

Edited by Kvothe, 10 October 2012 - 18:21.


#6 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 3,034 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:22

So far:





Alonso: 90

Vettel: 85

kimi: 83

Hamilton: 82

Pérez: 75

Webber: 70

Kovalainen: 70

Rosberg: 70

Button: 70

Koba/Hulk/Schumacher: 68

Edited by Taxi, 10 October 2012 - 18:24.


#7 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:25

1. Alonso - 90
2. Vettel - 89
3. Hamilton - 85

The rest are not even in the mirror's.

Edited by Watkins74, 10 October 2012 - 18:26.


#8 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,136 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:26

Alonso 92
Vettel/Räikkönen/Hamilton 89
Di Resta 86
Perez 85
Hulkenberg 83
Pic/Button 80
Glock/ Kobayashi 78
Ricciardo/de la Rosa/Rosberg/Kovalainen 75
Webber 70
Maldonado/Schumacher/ 68
Petrov/Vergne 63
Grosjean 55
Massa 50
Senna 45
Narain 40

Someone with loads of free time could average it all after a while :cat:

#9 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:27

Alonso 95
Hamilton 93
Vettel 90
Kobayashi 80
Perez 80
Rosberg 75
Pic 75
Glock 75
Petrov 75
De La Rosa 75
Schumacher 70
Kovalainen 70
Raikkonen 70
Maldonado 70
Di Resta 65
Hulkenberg 65
Button 60
Vergne 60
Ricciardo 60
Webber 60
Massa 55
Grosjean 55
Senna 50
Karthikeyan 45

#10 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:28

1. Alonso - 90
2. Vettel - 89
3. Hamilton - 85

The rest are not even in the mirror's.

In the mirror's what?

#11 RayInTorontoCanada

RayInTorontoCanada
  • Member

  • 570 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:29

Vettel's inconsistency in qualifying at the beginning of the year, plus various on track incidents with Karthikeyan in Malaysia, speeding under yellows in Spain and Button in Germany are reasons I wouldn't be able to rate Vettel quite up there with Hamilton and Alonso although he would be third.


I don't know.

How can you accuse him of being fully at fault w Karthy when:

A) Karthy got a penalty;

B) Hamilton collided w Maldonado at Valencia;

C) Alonso moved over on Kimi at Suzuka.

You can't call out someone on a contact without calling out others in similar instances.

Webber has proven to be far stiffer competition than Massa. So you can't compare "inconsistency" when it's only relative to one's own teammate.

No one on the planet is rating Massa's season at remotely the same level as Webber's. They aren't the same.

#12 RayInTorontoCanada

RayInTorontoCanada
  • Member

  • 570 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:32

Alonso 95
Hamilton 93
Vettel 90
Kobayashi 80
Perez 80
Rosberg 75
Pic 75
Glock 75
Petrov 75
De La Rosa 75
Schumacher 70
Kovalainen 70
Raikkonen 70
Maldonado 70
Di Resta 65
Hulkenberg 65
Button 60
Vergne 60
Ricciardo 60
Webber 60
Massa 55
Grosjean 55
Senna 50
Karthikeyan 45



Umm...Er...Where do you put Raikkonen?

O...I see you have him way down the order! Behind two Sauber drivers that have qualified the car out of position way more often and have made a fair amount more race day mistakes.

Good show!

:stoned:

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 10 October 2012 - 18:35.


#13 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:34

In the mirror's what?

Those things on the side of the car you look into to see if someone is behind you. Those mirror's. :D

#14 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:37

Those things on the side of the car you look into to see if someone is behind you. Those mirror's. :D

Oh, you mean mirrors? I thought that when you edited your post you cut off the thing the mirror was owning.

#15 TheWilliamzer

TheWilliamzer
  • Member

  • 688 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:38

Rating the drivers will never be a successful task until all of them are in the same machine, with the same setup and with similar driving preferences. Thus it's impossible.

Lewis is the Fastest, Seb is the Craziest, Nando is the Smartest, Kimi is the Coolest, Jenson is the cunning one, Massa is cute, Pastor is the most brave and reckless... etc.. that's how I rate!

But to just give a 90 for a guy just like that... I don't think that's precise. Everyone on the grid is better than the others in some aspects.

Edited by TheWilliamzer, 10 October 2012 - 18:39.


#16 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:38

K.Raikkonen - 100 (you gotta admit what he's done after 2 years sabbatical+i'm kimi fanboy :love:)

F.Alonso - 95 (even though he constantly moans about Ferrari not being top 4 car, his consistency,driving and never die attitude is the best)

S.Vettel - 90 (even though half the season RBR was 3rd fastest car, he managed to continuously gather points and he can overtake)

Perez - 85 (good kid, great race craft)

L.Hamilton - 80 (could've been much better, but he's been too much on the news for all the wrong reasons)

J.Button - 75 (he's shown he's not gonna play second fiddle to lewis, let's see what happens in 2013)

M.Webber - 70 (he's like the forgotten driver in 2012, compared to vettel, he's been unlucky)

N.Rosberg - 65 (unfullfilled potential,let down by team)

N.Hulkenberg - 63(i think he's better package than di resta)

K.kobayashi - 60 (he's quali performance is much better than perez's but mostly due to strategy, he has suffered)

P.Maldonado - 58 (crash kid or not, he has the blinding pace)

T.Glock - 55 (given the equipment, he's doing a damn good job)

P.Di resta - 52 (aside form british media overhyping him he's a good avarage driver)

R.Grosjean - 50 (yea yea i know what he did, but on his day, he's a good qualifire and racer. his podiums speak for themselves)

M.Schumacher - 48 (last year, he was energetic, this year, he always seemed downbeat, though driving that Merc shouldn't cheer anyone up)

H.kovalainen - 45 (same as glock, he's doing good job with his car)

B.Senna - 42 (overshadowed by pastor, his quali performance is below avarage)

F.Massa - 40 (despite his podium. he's still not doing enough to deserve 2nd Ferrari seat, specially compared to Alonso)

D.Ricciardo - 38 (nothing spectacular really, makes you wonder all the hype preseason)

C.pic - 37 (considering he's more than once rattled Glock shows that he has pace)

P.De la rosa - 35 (considering the car, he's doing OK)

J.E.Vergne - 34 (some odd flashes, but nothing noteworthy )

V.Petrov - 30 (last year he showed promise on several occasion, this year, he's nowhere really)

N.Karthekayen - 25 (car is bad, but he's not driving it to its potential)

#17 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:38

Umm...Er...Where do you put Raikkonen?

O...I see you have him way down the order! Behind two Sauber drivers that have qualified the car out of position way more often and have made a fair amount more race day mistakes.

Good show!

:stoned:

Yes, Raikkonen who has wasted what has sometimes been the best car on the grid and has been soundly beaten in qualifying by his near-rookie teammate.

#18 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:41

Oh, you mean mirrors? I thought that when you edited your post you cut off the thing the mirror was owning.

So....are you giving me a 10 second stop and go for sloppy writing?!

#19 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:44

So....are you giving me a 10 second stop and go for sloppy writing?!

No, just a reprimand.

Advertisement

#20 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,814 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:46

I don't know.

How can you accuse him of being fully at fault w Karthy when:

A) Karthy got a penalty;

B) Hamilton collided w Maldonado at Valencia;

C) Alonso moved over on Kimi at Suzuka.

You can't call out someone on a contact without calling out others in similar instances.

Webber has proven to be far stiffer competition than Massa. So you can't compare "inconsistency" when it's only relative to one's own teammate.

No one on the planet is rating Massa's season at remotely the same level as Webber's. They aren't the same.


Who said fully at fault, but Vettel definitely turned into early?

Hamilton did not collide with Maldonaldo, the latter drove into him.

I included the Alonso Suzuka incident, but apart from a going wide moment in china and losing a position he's been pretty much flawless during the races which is why I have him second.

Furthermore Vettel has been penalised twice for indiscretions on the track, and in qualifying in the early part of the season there were times such as China when he wouldn't make Q3 but his team mate would qualify 4th, or Monaco where his team mate qualified second and he qualified 11th (technically tenth after Pastor's penalty). That's why I would rate them: Ham, Alo, Vet in that order.

Edited by Kvothe, 10 October 2012 - 19:00.


#21 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,136 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:48

Yes, Raikkonen who has wasted what has sometimes been the best car on the grid and has been soundly beaten in qualifying by his near-rookie teammate.


You mean the guy who's third in wdc with 3 teams -6 drivers- having better tools than him overall?

Cool story, bro. :up:

#22 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:50

Yes, Raikkonen who has wasted what has sometimes been the best car on the grid and has been soundly beaten in qualifying by his near-rookie teammate.


to finish first, first you have to finish.


and that's why kimi shines above all. his race pace is perhaps the best in the grid right now. people say he qualifies lower than grosjean and bla bla bla and
yet with 5 wins between them, both Macca boys are behind him. Also take note that most of the time kimi had some sort of issues with the car during Quali, not to mention Lotus still haven't given kimi a steering wheel that he can drive 100% with.

Edited by eronrules, 10 October 2012 - 18:50.


#23 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:51

You mean the guy who's third in wdc with 3 teams -6 drivers- having better tools than him overall?

Cool story, bro. :up:

Why don't people make their own list instead of just saying other people are wrong?

#24 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:55

You mean the guy who's third in wdc with 3 teams -6 drivers- having better tools than him overall?

Cool story, bro. :up:

How do you know the other teams have better cars? The general consensus in the first part of the season was that the Lotus was qthe quickest, or at least the joint-quickest.

Again, the age-old problem crops up: you can't criticize Raikkonen without a legion of his fans jumping on your back.

#25 Kingshark

Kingshark
  • Member

  • 2,944 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:56

1.) Alonso - 91
2.) Vettel - 90
3.) Hamilton - 85

I feel no need to finish my list.

#26 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:57

Also take note that most of the time kimi had some sort of issues with the car during Quali, not to mention Lotus still haven't given kimi a steering wheel that he can drive 100% with.

By most of the time, I think you mean in 2 or 3 sessions. And the steering is the same for Grosjean, so Raikkonen should stop complaining and start delivering. I remember Trulli being mercilessly mocked for his steering complaints. So why doesn't that happen to Raikkonen?

#27 Mr.Wayne

Mr.Wayne
  • Member

  • 572 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:59

I would put 1. Vettel, 2. Alonso 3. Hamilton.
I am putting Alonso below Vettel due to two reasons mainly (and this is unfair since the championship is not over yet): Massa is not allowed to race Fernando, while Vettel and Hamilton have to deal with their own teammates first; and even though both Hamilton and Vettel have made mistakes, both of their mistakes have been while catching up. Alonso's gross mistake in Suzuka was while managing a lead that very well could have lasted him until the end of the season if administered correctly. In a way, I see Alonso's mistake as a championship-losing mistake, while Vettel's and Hamilton's were mistakes that, although costly, were "affordable".
That said, with 5 races to go, both Vettel and Hamilton could go very well and kill their own chances by doing something worst than what Alonso did last week...

#28 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:02

I would put 1. Vettel, 2. Alonso 3. Hamilton.
I am putting Alonso below Vettel due to two reasons mainly (and this is unfair since the championship is not over yet): Massa is not allowed to race Fernando, while Vettel and Hamilton have to deal with their own teammates first; and even though both Hamilton and Vettel have made mistakes, both of their mistakes have been while catching up. Alonso's gross mistake in Suzuka was while managing a lead that very well could have lasted him until the end of the season if administered correctly. In a way, I see Alonso's mistake as a championship-losing mistake, while Vettel's and Hamilton's were mistakes that, although costly, were "affordable".
That said, with 5 races to go, both Vettel and Hamilton could go very well and kill their own chances by doing something worst than what Alonso did last week...

You can't hold that against Alonso; it's not as if Massa has ever been in a position to threaten him this year, so therefore hasn't been able to let him through (apart from one race).

#29 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,154 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:03

Marking the drivers out of 100..... seems a little :well:

The most consistant performers have been Alonso, Vettel Raikonnen and Hamilton; then you have good drives but some lacklustre performances from the majority of the field, such as Webber, Perez, Button, Kobayashi, Rosberg, di Resta, Hulkenberg, Schumacher, Ricciardo. Then you have the disappointments (for various reasons) such as Maldonado, Senna, Vergne and Massa (although he has been getting stronger lately, so could probably move him into the second grouping) and finally the back of the grid championship between Caterham, Marussia and HRT with Pic being probably the standout driver from that lot.

#30 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:05

By most of the time, I think you mean in 2 or 3 sessions. And the steering is the same for Grosjean, so Raikkonen should stop complaining and start delivering. I remember Trulli being mercilessly mocked for his steering complaints. So why doesn't that happen to Raikkonen?



funny :rolleyes:

you are seriously not gonna compare trulli to kimi, are you??? even if trulli had the best steering, with caterham, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. but when your driver is perhaps one of the best natural talents (beside alonso/hamsta/vettel), former WDC and who's hanging on to 3rd this season, i'd say he's preferences matters. and his 2-2nd and 3-3rd place justifies that claim.

Edited by eronrules, 10 October 2012 - 19:06.


#31 joshb

joshb
  • Member

  • 3,253 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:08

Alonso

Vettel/Hamilton

Kimi
Hulk/di Resta

Perez



#32 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:10

funny :rolleyes:

you are seriously not gonna compare trulli to kimi, are you??? even if trulli had the best steering, with caterham, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. but when your driver is perhaps one of the best natural talents (beside alonso/hamsta/vettel), former WDC and who's hanging on to 3rd this season, i'd say he's preferences matters. and his 2-2nd and 3-3rd place justifies that claim.

No I'm not comparing Trulli to Raikkonen. But I remember posts here last year along the lines of 'lol Trulli complaining about his steering again, if he doesn't like it he should get out of F1'. Hardly anybody suggested that it was the team's fault. With Raikkonen, however, all his fans are saying it's the team's duty to give him a perfect car. I think that's a bit deluded.

#33 amppatel

amppatel
  • Member

  • 451 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:11

Ok, I saw the typical fighting, whinging, moaning and sarcasm you get when any media thing releases judgments on the performance of drivers - X should be higher, No X should be lower, X is getting favoured, X got hit in the X by Grosjean - well stump up and offer your 'rating'. To be fair, make it out of 100 like a percentage (1 worst driver ever, 100 absolutely perfect) and this is performance compared to car etc.

Alonso - 90
Raikkonen - 89 (Quali is the chink in his armor)
Perez - 88
Hamilton - 86
Vettel - 84
Kobayashi - 82
Rosberg - 80
Button - 79
Di Resta - 78
Ricciardo - 78
Webber - 77
Pic - 77
Schumacher - 76 (Mistakes in Singapore, Hungary, Spain cost him.)
Hulkenberg - 76
Glock - 75
Kovalainen - 75
Maldonado - 72
de la Rosa - 70
Petrov - 69
Vergne - 65
Grosjean - 63
Massa - 57
Senna - 51
Karthekayen - 42


LOL, you cannot distinguish between 1%, should be made out of 10


#34 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:15

This before Korea and after Japan:

P1 - Vettel

1. Points.
2. Momentum.
3. Mental strength.

Behind Seb is probably Kimi; remarkable comeback with that weirdly painted car.

Michael works well with what he has, but car is simply not competitive on majority of tracks.

Edited by Sakae, 10 October 2012 - 19:18.


#35 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,665 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:17

his race pace is perhaps the best in the grid right now.

I can't agree.
Grosjean was showing comparable or better race pace in China, Canada, Valencia, Great Britain, Singapore etc. Quite a lot if you consider how may occassions to outpace Kimi did Grosjean lost due to his 1st lap accidents.
If you look at race lap times, there were maybe 3 or 4 races this season where Raikkonen clearly outpaced Grosjean. Romain could be as well in front of him in the standings if he had kept him clean on 1st laps throughout the season and if the failure in Valencia hadn't happened.
Raikkonen has astonishing pace only on occassion. The fact that he is paired with inconsistent and crashy Grosjean helps him a lot. I'm afraid that more consistent driver in Lotus could make Raikkonen look far worse. Credit to Grosjean, I think he is very fast and Raikkonen is no disaster, but for me Kimi is clearly not at the very top this season and Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel would be leading him by significant margin in the same team IMHO.

#36 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:22

I can't agree.
Grosjean was showing comparable or better race pace in China, Canada, Valencia, Great Britain, Singapore etc. Quite a lot if you consider how may occassions to outpace Kimi did Grosjean lost due to his 1st lap accidents.
If you look at race lap times, there were maybe 3 or 4 races this season where Raikkonen clearly outpaced Grosjean. Romain could be as well in front of him in the standings if he had kept him clean on 1st laps throughout the season and if the failure in Valencia hadn't happened.
Raikkonen has astonishing pace only on occassion. The fact that he is paired with inconsistent and crashy Grosjean helps him a lot. I'm afraid that more consistent driver in Lotus could make Raikkonen look far worse. Credit to Grosjean, I think he is very fast and Raikkonen is no disaster, but for me Kimi is clearly not at the very top this season and Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel would be leading him by significant margin in the same team IMHO.

:up:

#37 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:23

I can't agree.
Grosjean was showing comparable or better race pace in China, Canada, Valencia, Great Britain, Singapore etc. Quite a lot if you consider how may occassions to outpace Kimi did Grosjean lost due to his 1st lap accidents.
If you look at race lap times, there were maybe 3 or 4 races this season where Raikkonen clearly outpaced Grosjean. Romain could be as well in front of him in the standings if he had kept him clean on 1st laps throughout the season and if the failure in Valencia hadn't happened.
Raikkonen has astonishing pace only on occassion. The fact that he is paired with inconsistent and crashy Grosjean helps him a lot. I'm afraid that more consistent driver in Lotus could make Raikkonen look far worse. Credit to Grosjean, I think he is very fast and Raikkonen is no disaster, but for me Kimi is clearly not at the very top this season and Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel would be leading him by significant margin in the same team IMHO.



you do watch Formula 1 ... right. :stoned:

in bahrain, kimi's race pace was better, so in china (let down by tire gamble, he hit the cliff), in singapore he outpaced romain, same in Hungary,Malaysia,Germany,Britain,Spain(MIND YOU, these are the races Romain finished). the only time kimi was generaly beaten by romain on race pace was valencia, but as i've said before


TO FINISH FIRST, FIRST YOU HAVE TO FINISH :cat:

Edited by eronrules, 10 October 2012 - 19:24.


#38 LiJu914

LiJu914
  • Member

  • 1,776 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:27

Lotus´ performance may have declined recently, but until a few races ago it was an excellent race-car and could´ve won races in some occasions.

Grosjean virtually crashes out of every 2nd Grand Prix and is still ahead of Massa (just 1 DNF) in the standings ffs.




#39 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:28

you do watch Formula 1 ... right. :stoned:

in bahrain, kimi's race pace was better, so in china (let down by tire gamble, he hit the cliff), in singapore he outpaced romain, same in Hungary,Malaysia,Germany,Britain,Spain. the only time kimi was generaly beaten by romain on race pace was valencia, but as i've said before


TO FINISH FIRST, FIRST YOU HAVE TO FINISH :cat:

NO. That myth has been well and truly busted. Grosjean kept his tyres going longer than Kimi with no problems, so therefore Grosjean was better. In Bahrain, Kimi was aided by qualifying poorly, so therefore comparison is unfair. In Singapore Grosjean was quicker all weekend but had to let him through. Germany and Britain are not fair comparisons due to Grosjean's incidents, and the case is the same for Malaysia. In Spain Grosjean was driving with a damaged car after being hit by Perez and Senna.

Advertisement

#40 PorcupineTroy

PorcupineTroy
  • Member

  • 293 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:33

1. Alonso
2. Vettel
3. Hamilton
4. Raikkonen
5. Button
6. Perez
7. Rosberg
8. Webber
9. Di Resta
10. Kobayashi
11. Kovalainen
12. Schumacher
13. Grosjean
14. Glock
15. Hulkenberg
16. Ricciardo
17. Maldonado
18. Petrov
19. Massa
20. de la Rosa
21. Pic
22. Vergne
23. Senna
24. Karthikeyan

I don`t really know where to put d'Ambrosio, and sorry, I don't feel like making up numbers out of one hundred to judge them. This was also done a little hastily, so later today I may disagree with myself.



#41 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 3,491 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:39

Who said fully at fault, but Vettel definitely turned into early?

Hamilton did not collide with Maldonaldo, the latter drove into him.

I included the Alonso Suzuka incident, but apart from a going wide moment in china and losing a position he's been pretty much flawless during the races which is why I have him second.

Furthermore Vettel has been penalised twice for indiscretions on the track, and in qualifying in the early part of the season there were times such as China when he wouldn't make Q3 but his team mate would qualify 4th, or Monaco where his team mate qualified second and he qualified 11th (technically tenth after Pastor's penalty). That's why I would rate them: Ham, Alo, Vet in that order.

You probably put Hamilton on top, because you just like him more than Alonso and Vettel.  ;) I'm tempted to do the same and rate them Vet, Alo, Ham in that order. But honestly, all three are driving superbly when looking at the season as a whole and it's very hard to say whether one was really better than the other.


#42 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,665 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:41

you do watch Formula 1 ... right. :stoned:

in bahrain, kimi's race pace was better, so in china (let down by tire gamble, he hit the cliff), in singapore he outpaced romain, same in Hungary,Malaysia,Germany,Britain,Spain(MIND YOU, these are the races Romain finished). the only time kimi was generaly beaten by romain on race pace was valencia, but as i've said before

LOL.
In China their pace was comparable. Kimi was gaining a bit due to earlier pit stops, but this eventually didn't pay off.

In Singapore he clearly didn't outpace Romain. Did you watch that race? Grosjean was 7 seconds in front of him when SC appeared. After the restat, the team made Romain to let Raikkonen pass him. But Grosjean was still able to finish on his tail. It's out of the discussion.

In Malaysia Grosjean completed 3 or 4 laps, I don't know why it should be compared.

In Germany Grosjean again had 1st lap colision, we don't know if this affected his pace.

In Great Britain Grosjean made a fantastic recover. He was 28 seconds behind Kimi after lap 3, but finished only 7 seconds behind Kimi despite highly compromised strategy due to 1st lap colision (again).

the only time kimi was generaly beaten by romain on race pace was valencia, but as i've said before

What about Canada?

Kimi deserves credit for staying out of trouble when he is compared with Grosjan, but when he is compared with top drivers, I think it's not enough.

#43 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:46

LOL.
In China their pace was comparable. Kimi was gaining a bit due to earlier pit stops, but this eventually didn't pay off.

In Singapore he clearly didn't outpace Romain. Did you watch that race? Grosjean was 7 seconds in front of him when SC appeared. After the restat, the team made Romain to let Raikkonen pass him. But Grosjean was still able to finish on his tail. It's out of the discussion.

In Malaysia Grosjean completed 3 or 4 laps, I don't know why it should be compared.

In Germany Grosjean again had 1st lap colision, we don't know if this affected his pace.

In Great Britain Grosjean made a fantastic recover. He was 28 seconds behind Kimi after lap 3, but finished only 7 seconds behind Kimi despite highly compromised strategy due to 1st lap colision (again).

What about Canada?

Kimi deserves credit for staying out of trouble when he is compared with Grosjan, but when he is compared with top drivers, I think it's not enough.


so what would be then enough for your taste to be a good driver??? taking banzai move to gain first place in both bahrain and hungary and perhaps in that process taking both seb and hamsta out, or play the patience game and don't collide with every fool around you and pick up points. you be the judge of that :kiss:

#44 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,003 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:49

Not really interested in such ranking, but I'd like to give some credit to Webber. He has matched Vettel's quali pace at the early stages of the season (lost that edge later on, but was also screwed up by team decisions) and won 2 races. He's 36 and still can produce good results.

#45 WatchingF1since4yearsold

WatchingF1since4yearsold
  • Member

  • 250 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:52

just the top 10/bottom 5:

1. Alonso
=2. Hamilton/Vettel
4. Raikonen
=5. Button/Webber
7. Perez
8. Di Resta
9. Rosberg
10. Kobayashi

20. Maldonado
21. Grosjean
22. Senna
23. Vergne
24. Karthikeyan

#46 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:52

so what would be then enough for your taste to be a good driver??? taking banzai move to gain first place in both bahrain and hungary and perhaps in that process taking both seb and hamsta out, or play the patience game and don't collide with every fool around you and pick up points. you be the judge of that :kiss:

I think you'll find Anderis was talking about outright pace, not incidents. You have conveniently avoided all the good points he brought up.

#47 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,136 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:56

Why don't people make their own list instead of just saying other people are wrong?


Real question is why some adults can't rate a f1 field honestly, without obvious trolling attempts.

#48 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:58

I think you'll find Anderis was talking about outright pace, not incidents. You have conveniently avoided all the good points he brought up.


no i haven't, praise is shown where it's due, RoGro's podiums speak for itself, but saying kimi's is constantly under-performing the car and RoGro is Constantly outpacing him is not logical either. i seem to remember a certain F.alonso is getting all the praise cause bar the two DNF's he's constantly in the points and podiums, if that certifies him as a good driver,then why not kimi??? in that regard, rosberg should be way better than kimi too cause he's outqualified kimi on several occasions. but when dust settles, people look what you achieved on sundays. just saying, :cool:

#49 Lord_Shaitan

Lord_Shaitan
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:58

1. Alonso 95
2. Vettel 90
3. Hamilton 85
4. Raikkonen 75
5. Webber 70
6. Hulkenberg 68
7. Di Resta 67
8. Button 65
9. Grosjean 60
10. Kovalainen 58
11. Glock 57
12. Pick 55
13. Perez 53
14. Ricciardo 52
15. Maldonado 51
16. Schumacher 50
17. Rosberg 49
18. Kobayashi 48
19. Massa 40
20. De la Rosa 35
21. Petrov 33
22. Vergne 30
23. Senna 25
24. Karthikeyan 15

#50 FenderJaguar

FenderJaguar
  • Member

  • 1,450 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 10 October 2012 - 20:24

4 best drivers of the 2012 season, and some of the others

Vettel 95
Top driver, top mentally, really wants to win and knows what it takes, has made the most of a car that for part of the season weren't better than the other teams (but maybe is starting to be now). has fought for as many points as possible wherever he could. and Karthikeyan was a cucumber. if he has a poor ending to the season his grade will drop

Alonso 90
A great season for him until Spa, not his fault, but he wasn't positive in Japan, is he losing the mental strength? what was that stupid tweet about seas and mountains? if he recovers and wins the title he is close to 100

Kimi 85
Very impressed with his comeback and his clean racing. A little shy in the beginning of the season. is getting tougher. has been more on it since Silverstone. Scary quick pace in Hungary which is the level I really want to see from Kimi. Needs to qualify better. He is still in the chase for the WDC in his comeback year. In a Lotus Renault. That is an achievment. Kimi fanboy - yes.

Hamilton 80
Sometimes he's the quickest out there but only sometimes. seems to have problems with setup on occasions. seems to have problems with other things and it is my personal belief that he and Jenson isn't getting the most from that McLaren.

Button 70 - Captain Slow has great mental ability, doubt his raw speed, but if the car is slightly better he will be a machine in collecting points, if it is average he is nowhere
Perez 70 - hyped? has had a great season though he did look stupid in Japan, interesting to see what he will become
Webber 70 - mr up and down
Hulkenberg 70 - see great potential in Hulkenberg, a champion in the right car
Di Resta 65 - don't really know if F1 is his thing
Maldonado 60 - sometimes he is really fast and maybe he has started to use his brain
Rosberg 60 - the invisible man in F1 and seems so perfect. and perfect is boring. how good is he? no one knows

Edited by FenderJaguar, 10 October 2012 - 21:07.