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Rate the driver's 2012 thus far.


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#101 Anderis

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:43

thats why, you are blind!!

In Silverstone do you noticed the fastest tyre was hard????
Romain didn;t compromised by pitting earlier, instead he benefitted by running more laps on fastest tyre and clean air. Kimi was on worn out slower tyre and stuck on traffic. The team reluctantly pit him earlier unlike what rbr did for Vettel which hurt kimi by running too long on the slow tyre. They nvr thought of undercut the schumacher train. Which is why the gap remain 7 when kimi finally got clean air and pitted with hard compound.

And nope, i disagree with your false claim on kimi clinging 3rd because others underperforming.
And your claim on kimi losing little point is laugable!! 18 point in shanghai, 7 points in bahrain, 3 points in spain, 15 points in canada (differntial failure and brundle strategies), 10 points in monaco (provide kimi undrivable power steering) ...i havent count the points loss due to KERS issues. Allan Mcnish said the other teams question their strategies as it clearly hurt kimi on every race so far.

No way in hell kimi could finished 4th on Suzuka. You claim you read the live timing, i dont think lotus has the pace of mclaren - button. Kimi could hv finished 5th if the team didnt perform a 4 sec pit stop.

In conclusion, you got no facts because you cant reason with stats.

If somebody is blind, it's you. You were insisting Kimi had better pace in Singapore. I've provided you lap time chart which clearly shows that it wasn't the case (in fact, you didn't even need this chart to realise this, but you were still insisting otherwise), then you're silent about Singapore and switching on other races. Need I really to analyse every single GP, providing lap times, numbers etc.? I'm not going to, it would take too much from my time.

Great Britain, ok you may have the point about hard tyre, but read this:
Since lap 35 Kimi had both hard tyres and clean air. On lap 35 he had 5 seconds advantage over Grosjean. He finished the race with 7 seconds advantage over Grosjean. Grosjean had 8 laps older tyres which was significant disadvantage. But he had lost only 2 seconds on 17 laps compared to Raikkonen. 2 seconds lost on 17 laps despite much more worn tyres. I don't think it counts as a much better pace from Raikkonen.
Grosjean's strategy was compromised, because after early pit stop his strategy was ultimately like one stop strategy, which certainly wasn't the quickest strategy around Silverstone.

Kimi is only 5 points in front of Hamilton in the standings. Are you really trying to say that Hamilton didn't lose more points due to car failures, team mistakes etc. than Kimi?

I've never written where Kimi should've finished on Suzuka, I don't know what are you talking about.

You're also overestimating the amount of points that he has lost. He didn't lose 18 points in China. He was on 2nd place with some laps to go because of early 1st and 2nd pit stop and no 3rd pit stop. That' why his tyres gave up, but it's also that' why he was there on second. Was he on other strategy, he would have been at least 1 position lower at that point. I also don't know why he wasn't able to manage his tyres, Senna made his 2nd stop only one lap later and managed to keep the pace to the end of the race.
Don't know from what you take the amount of points lost in Monaco, Canada, he clearly could've finish lower than you assume. And I don't know what problem do you have with his strategy in Canada, it was basically the same strategy on which Perez has finished on podium...
What's the excuse for Bahrain? They didn't undercut Vettel? Maybe they tried? Both have made their last pit stop quite early. RBR have some clever people onboard, they could well predicted what Lotus was going to do and react. It's like accusing the team that they didn't give him the edge over Vettel. It's not fair way of counting lost points, when Hamilton for example retired from the lead due to mechanical failure...
Spain is arguable, when he was on the same tyres with Maldonado and Alonso didn't really look like a match for them, bar the last stint when he benefitted from fresher tyres and from the fact they were focusing on each other instead of trying to lap as quick as possible.

In conclusion, if I can't reason with stats, then I don't know what should I do. I certainly don't rate judging by impression as a better way than judging by lap times. If you have some points why lap times shouldn't be interpreted in the way which I do, then OK, post it. But take note that I can disagree with your reasoning as I did with Singapore and Silverstone, as you clearly try to interprate everything in favour of Raikkonen. I'm not Kimi's hater and I was over the moon when he has scored the WDC in 2007 so I don't have the reason to rate his driving lower than what can I read from facts, lap times etc. I consider his driving this season not on the level of Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton and you haven't convinced me so far that I should think otherwise.

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#102 Headspin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:47

90 Alonso, Vettel
85 Kimi, Lewis
75 Webber, Perez
70 Button, Hulkenberg, Rosberg
65 Schumi, Kobayashi, Di Resta

The rest I really cant tell, some maybe should also be in these points too in which case I'm sorry for exclusion.

#103 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:08

before you made superficial judgement, why dont you hv a look on team strategies ??

in bahrain, they should pit kimi earlier to undercut vettel

in spain, they pit kimi on soft tyre for longer run (hard was the fastest tyre)

in monaco, delivered a bad steering setup for kimi

shanghai (make kimi run half the race distance on used medium tyre (when they had fresh medium on their disposal)

in canada, (pit kimi behind traffic)

hockenheim (again, pit kimi on slow tyre and make him run longer, kimi ended up 3rd starting from 10th)

silverstone ( team again showed that they are clueless about undercut)

suzuka (4 sec pit stop, lose 5th position to lewis)

And since silverstone, kimi often faced kers failure issues during qualifying and races!!

your judgement are single sided, i hardly doubt qualifying hampered kimi much on sunday as much as team strategies. and again, pls open live timing during races before making stereotype judgement.

Kimi has been 100% or more during races for example spa and monza!! The car clearly lack pace but kimi still ended up 3rd and 5th!!!

Edit

Romain received new updates on valencia to silverstone while kimi receive it later than him!!

You could say the same about most drivers this season. Plus there were a few races I bthink where Raikkonen had new parts and Grosjean didn't.

#104 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:12

lol

the self-described Webber hater doesnt have Webber at even half table. Shocker.

What's wrong with that? I think he's been very poor indeed. Put almost all of the midfield drivers in that car and they'd do a better job in my opinion.

#105 UPRC

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:27

After arranging them from best to worst drives, I stuck numbers that felt suitable by their names.

Alonso - 90
Vettel - 87
Hamilton - 86
Raikkonen - 85
Perez - 82
Hulkenberg - 81
Rosberg - 80
Webber - 77
Kobayashi - 76
Button - 75
Maldonado - 74
Di Resta - 74
Kovalainen - 73
Schumacher - 72
Ricciardo - 71
Glock - 71
Pic - 70
de la Rosa - 66
d'Ambrosio - 65 (did about as good as we could expect from one race)
Petrov - 61
Vergne - 60
Massa - 58 (better lately, but I can't forget his slump that pretty much lasted half of the season)
Senna - 56
Karthekayen - 50
Grosjean - 45 (great speed, but that's pretty much all he has going for him)

Edited by UPRC, 11 October 2012 - 11:31.


#106 Torsion

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:46

Alonso 95
Hamilton 93
Vettel 90
Kobayashi 80
Perez 80
Rosberg 75
Pic 75
Glock 75
Petrov 75
De La Rosa 75
Schumacher 70
Kovalainen 70
Raikkonen 70
Maldonado 70
Di Resta 65
Hulkenberg 65

Button 60
Vergne 60
Ricciardo 60
Webber 60
Massa 55
Grosjean 55
Senna 50
Karthikeyan 45


I am curious as to how you rate Kobayashi's performance higher than a guy like Raikkonen. Kamui has one podium in a car which has had three podiums in the hands of Perez, who is also ahead in points. I am just trying to understand what your criteria are for this rating, as it baffles me. Thanks.

Also don't really understand why the FI drivers are so low, unless you feel they have a top car at their disposal?

Edited by Torsion, 11 October 2012 - 11:47.


#107 Disgrace

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:53

Not really sure why Karthikeyan is last on everyone's lists. Sure, in no way at all does he merit an F1 drive but that shouldn't cloud judgement of his actual performances now he's here.

He has only crashed out of one race, Singapore, otherwise he has brought the car home and has avoided a de la Rosa qualifying whitewash. He is not an expensive repair bill. There isn't much else for him to achieve but he has done it.

By contrast, Senna and Massa in particular have fallen way behind both expectations and the proven performance of their machinery. Maldonado likewise has criminally and systematically not delivered the points his car is capable of due to what can only be his temperament. He is an expensive repair bill.

Karthikeyan should be out of F1, but he really hasn't done a bad job for a real pay driver.

Edited by Disgrace, 11 October 2012 - 11:57.


#108 sailor

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:57

Hamilton 92
Vettel 91
Raikonen 89
Alonso 88
Webber 80
Perez 75
Maldonado 75
Grosjean 70
Button 65
Rosberg 60
Massa 50
Schumi 50
'
'
'
dont care abt the rest


#109 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:59

I am curious as to how you rate Kobayashi's performance higher than a guy like Raikkonen. Kamui has one podium in a car which has had three podiums in the hands of Perez, who is also ahead in points. I am just trying to understand what your criteria are for this rating, as it baffles me. Thanks.

Also don't really understand why the FI drivers are so low, unless you feel they have a top car at their disposal?

I rated Kobayashi that highly because he could easily have had more points than Perez if he hadn't been so unlucky, and also, bizarely, if he had been worse in qualifying. I rated Raikkonen quite lowly because I think he has been wasting a car that is better than it's results have shown. Finally, I rated the FI drivers lowly for the same reason as Raikkonen.

#110 Torsion

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:20

I rated Kobayashi that highly because he could easily have had more points than Perez if he hadn't been so unlucky, and also, bizarely, if he had been worse in qualifying. I rated Raikkonen quite lowly because I think he has been wasting a car that is better than it's results have shown. Finally, I rated the FI drivers lowly for the same reason as Raikkonen.



Thanks. Personally I would like to rate Kamui quite high as well, but I don't think he has done that well this season. Considering your argument, I am not convinced that even if he had qualified where Perez has qualified (lower on the grid - and had the advantage of different tire strategies), that there would be any guarantee that he would have had the same race performances as Perez. For example, if you look at Bahrain and Canada where Kamui and Perez both qualified out of the top 10, Sergio finished ahead of Kamui on both occasions, in-spite of qualifying lower than him.

Regarding FI drivers, where do you rate the team/car for this season?

Edited by Torsion, 11 October 2012 - 12:21.


#111 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:22

Thanks. Personally I would like to rate Kamui quite high as well, but I don't think he has done that well this season. Considering your argument, I am not convinced that even if he had qualified where Perez has qualified (lower on the grid - and had the advantage of different tire strategies), that there would be any guarantee that he would have had the same race performances as Perez. For example, if you look at Bahrain and Canada where Kamui and Perez both qualified out of the top 10, Sergio finished ahead of Kamui on both occasions, in-spite of qualifying lower than him.

Regarding FI drivers, where do you rate the team/car for this season?

I rate the car as the fifth or sixth fastest generally, rising to second or third fastest at certain tracks such as Valencia and Singapore.

#112 OSX

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:30

Lewis is the Fastest, Seb is the Craziest, Nando is the Smartest, Kimi is the Coolest, Jenson is the cunning one, Massa is cute, Pastor is the most brave and reckless... etc.. that's how I rate!

:lol:

#113 intelligentsia

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:30

I'm not saying that Kimi is constantly underperforming the car but there are some states between underperforming and having the best pace and I'm convinced Kimi is somewhere there. Overall Kimi's performance throughout the season wasn't that bad, but Grosjean has proved many times that the car was capable of more than Kimi delivered in some races.
As there are some people who would like to put Kimi to the same category with Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton, I have to disagree with them. Kimi's race pace is sometimes very good (I.E. Hungary), but sometimes Grosjean is proving that the car is capable of more. (Canada, Valencia and Singapore are the obvious one and you can argue about Great Britain and China also, and it's quite high percentage given how often Grosjean makes him unavailable to compare in the race). And we cannot just left his qualifying issues. There are some drivers on the grid who can perform on both Saturday and Sunday. Weak qualifying makes it harder to get everything from the car in the race and a great recovery from low grid position isn't worth of praise if you could finish even better with a proper performance in qualifying which were bad down to you. For the moment, Kimi looks like a good midfield driver, but I want to see improved qualifying and outpacing Grosjean more convincingly in more races before I put him into the top driver category with Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton.

I rate him clearly out of top3 2012 drivers at any day of the week. Wheter he deserves 4th, 7th or 10th it's hard to say. It's really hard to compare drivers this season as I can see some kind of inconsistency from the most of the drivers on the grid.


A lot has been made of Kimi's poor qualifying form, but he and Grosjean has actually qualified pretty similar. Looking at the statistical numbers alone dont tell the whole story. While Kimi hasn't suffered a race ending retirement yet he has had some issues in qualifying. In Australia it was a team communication misunderstanding, it wasn't that Kimi didn't have the pace to go through to Q2. In Malaysia Kimi had a penalty for a gearbox change. In Bahrain the team made a strategical decision to not send Kimi out in Q2, there was nothing wrong with his pace. In Canada Kimi had a differential problem, and at Silverstone Kimi had Kers failure. That is 5 qualifying sessions where Kimi had problems, so in actual fact Kimi and Grosjean have actually been pretty similar in qualifying thus far.

Of course everyone has their own personal ranking system, I am obviously not going to change your mind. But for me personally it is a bit of a flawed argument to say someone isn't really doing that well or to downgrade someone, because other drivers are under performing. F1 isn't just about showing flashes of speed. If you are driving for the championship for example, you will try to rack up as much points as possible. If you are fast but mess up by crashing for example, then it is your fault, speed alone means nothing if you cant complete the whole task. And if others have under performed why would you want to hold it against the driver who did his job correctly and did nothing wrong? It is like the qualifying session in Suzuka, Kimi was on a very fast lap when he spun out, it would have been much faster then Grosjean. But I think it would be wrong of me to say that Grosjean was under performing or slow on his lap because he completed his lap and finished the task, whereas Kimi messed up, if Kimi was going a tenth or two slower then he might also have completed the lap. To get the task done you might have to compromise along the way which will look less impressive but you finish your goal, so therefore it is an flawed argument for me.
It is the same principal when someone is saying other drivers are messing up and under performing therefore Kimi can score points consistently. It is not that easy to score points consistently if it was then why isn't everyone else doing it? In fact in this season where car performances varies a lot it has only been two drivers, Kimi and Alonso who doesn't really have the fastest cars, who has been able to score points so consistently, and surprise, surprise they are also right up there in the championship.
Racing is about getting to the finish line as quickly as possible, if you dont reach the finish line then you haven't completed the ultimate goal. But that is just my opinion.

A lot has also been made about Mclaren's bad strategies. Lotus have improved their strategies a lot since the middle of the season, but people dont really notice that they are sometimes not doing that well strategically because they are a midfield team people tend to look over it or expect less from them. It isn't really tangible or easy to calculate compensation for, but both Kimi and Grosjean have lost a lot of positions due to slow pitstop and bad strategical decisions. Also as a smaller team with less resources, who is moving up they still have a lot of kinks to sort out. While Kimi is finishing the races, he has had lots of issues with Kers for example. Or Lotus just struggles to put together whole weekends and as a rule something generally tends to go wrong, while for the top team it is often more of an exception (albeit the exception can sometimes be a big mistake). it is understandable for Lotus since they are moving up and have made a lot of changes since last year, but it does effect the results of the drivers at the end of the day, but again it is difficult to calculate how much. This pass weekend is a good example, Kimi tested the DDRS in FP1 which didn't work, in FP2 he had a broken Kers in FP3 a broken roll bar. He had no time to setup the car or do any long runs. He ended up in 6th place in end, but perhaps if he had a bit of proper setup time he might have done better. So something like a 6th place might not look very impressive but under circumstances it is a reasonable job. A lot of it goes unnoticed but Lotus practically has these small issues every single weekend.

#114 discover23

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:10

A lot has been made of Kimi's poor qualifying form, but he and Grosjean has actually qualified pretty similar. ....


I stopped reading right there.. :drunk:

#115 2ms

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:01

Vettel 100
Kimi 96 (qualifying mistakes but devastatingly flawless in races)
Alonso 95 (solid and shrewd like Kimi and Vettel but seemed to lose head a bit couple weekends for example last race imitation of Grosjean)
Button and Hamilton 90 (excellent but flawed)
Webber and Rosberg 85 (solid but not excellent)

Edited by 2ms, 11 October 2012 - 19:02.


#116 kpchelsea

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:13

I don't know.

How can you accuse him of being fully at fault w Karthy when:

A) Karthy got a penalty;

B) Hamilton collided w Maldonado at Valencia;

C) Alonso moved over on Kimi at Suzuka.

You can't call out someone on a contact without calling out others in similar instances.

Webber has proven to be far stiffer competition than Massa. So you can't compare "inconsistency" when it's only relative to one's own teammate.

No one on the planet is rating Massa's season at remotely the same level as Webber's. They aren't the same.

I think maybe you got that wrong as far as i recall Kathikeyan never got a penalty but Maldonado certainly did

#117 H2H

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:57

I think maybe you got that wrong as far as i recall Kathikeyan never got a penalty but Maldonado certainly did


Narain got a well deserved penalty for taking out a car lapping him by slicing off the rear tyre with his front wing.


#118 Wander

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:59

I'm in the process of counting points averages based on the posts of everyone who bothered to rate all 24 drivers. If you want to take part, do it yourself too (0-100 or 0-10 system, doesn't matter). I'll probably post it up tomorrow.

#119 Skinnyguy

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:07

Button 80
Webber 80
Kimi 79


In the future, dogs will be cats, ya...
and in the future, shoes will be hats, ya...
in the future, wrong will be right...
and in the future you will troll all niiiiiight!!!

Sorry, been watching SNL all afternoon and that song got stuck in my head :lol:

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#120 MP422

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:10

Hamilton
Alonso
Vettel
Raikkonen
Webber

my top 5 order of 2012 so far.

#121 jals99

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:27

Well he did not win but waste? Well Considering he puts Kovalainen well below Petrov makes it seem like ethnicity issue more than anything else.

Petrov is better than Kovalainen in races this year, statistics clearly shows it :) And Kova knows team very well, while Vitaly missed first tests...

#122 Wander

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:34

Statistics alone don't show anything.

#123 Cool Beans

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:08

My top 5 for 2012 thus far:

1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Insensitive Amoeba
5. Button

#124 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:44

Well he did not win but waste? Well Considering he puts Kovalainen well below Petrov makes it seem like ethnicity issue more than anything else.

If I am not entirely mistaken, like Alonso, Perez (at 80) also kind of sort completely wasted a very good race car last Sunday but I guess it's just me thinking that parking a perfectly healthy car on sand in the race is less of a mistake than spinning on a qualifying lap let alone failing to overtake for lead on a track where overtaking is next to impossible.

All this crap about under performing the car is circular, it inevitably hinges on priors:

Räikkönen is crap & he gets decent results ==> The car must be the best or very close ==> Räikkönen cannot win & Räikkönen has the best car ==> Räikkönen is crap....

reduced to bare essentials this becomes: Räikkönen is crap ===> Räikkönen is crap.

and there you have it.

Ethnicity issue? I'm British for God's sake, not a nation hostile to Finland, and I have nothing against Finns. Indeed, I am very excited to see how Bottas will do in the Williams next year. However, it just happens that I regard the two current Finnish representatives on the F1 grid as two of the most overrated drivers in the sport. Yes, I think Raikkonen has been average, but I have given my reasons and they are not, as you claim, as simple as me thinking 'Raikkonen is crap'.

#125 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:45

Petrov is better than Kovalainen in races this year, statistics clearly shows it :) And Kova knows team very well, while Vitaly missed first tests...

:up:

#126 tommi34

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:58

Well I think the top 3 of the championship have clearly been the 3 best drivers this season.

#127 Wander

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:06

So I counted the averages of the 11 members (including myself) who posted a rating for every driver in either a 0-10 scale or 0-100 scale. As such, the Autosport forum 2012 performance ratings (so far) are as such:

1. Alonso ------92.1
2. Vettel -------87.8
3. Hamilton -----85
4. Raikkonen ---84.5
5. Perez -------78
6. Webber -----71.5
7. Button ------71.3
8. Hulkenberg --71
9. Rosberg -----70.1
10. Kobayashi --68
11. Maldonado -66.4
= Di Resta -----66.4
13. Kovalainen --64.7
14. Glock -------63.5
15. Schumacher -62.9
16. Pic ----------61.8
17. Ricciardo -----60.6
18. Grosjean -----58.9
19. de la Rosa ---55.5
20. Massa --------54.5
21. Petrov --------53.7
22. Vergne -------52.4
23. Senna --------48.5
24. Karthikeyan --37.5

Edited by Wander, 13 October 2012 - 14:11.


#128 Brandz07

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:11

I think people are being quite harsh on Bruno considering he gets 2 practice sessions to everyone else's 3.

#129 Wander

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:13

Please do post your ratings as well if you would like to show where you'd place Bruno and I'll see if it would improve his position in the overall average.

#130 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:19

So I counted the averages of the 11 members (including myself) who posted a rating for every driver in either a 0-10 scale or 0-100 scale. As such, the Autosport forum 2012 performance ratings (so far) are as such:

1. Alonso ------92.1
2. Vettel -------87.8
3. Hamilton -----85
4. Raikkonen ---84.5
5. Perez -------78
6. Webber -----71.5
7. Button ------71.3
8. Hulkenberg --71
9. Rosberg -----70.1
10. Kobayashi --68
11. Maldonado -66.4
= Di Resta -----66.4
13. Kovalainen --64.7
14. Glock -------63.5
15. Schumacher -62.9
16. Pic ----------61.8
17. Ricciardo -----60.6
18. Grosjean -----58.9
19. de la Rosa ---55.5
20. Massa --------54.5
21. Petrov --------53.7
22. Vergne -------52.4
23. Senna --------48.5
24. Karthikeyan --37.5


:up: For your work mate. In the end average gave a reasonable ranking.

In my view maybe top 4 is maybe too spread, and maybe Button and Webber too high -there´s people doing better overall in midfield-, but it´s pretty good still. I think di Resta paid the price for the dumb ratings he got from journos :lol:

#131 jeze

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:27

1, Alonso

2, Vettel

3, Räikkönen

4, Hamilton

5, Di Resta

6, Pérez

7, Webber

8, Button

9, Rosberg

10, Massa

In all seriousness outside the top four on this list I haven't been impressed by too many. Rosberg's had a stinker since the initial DDRS advantage got disrupted, Grosjean's an idiot who doesn't deserve a superlicense, Maldonado is plain stupid, Kobayashi sits in a rocketship, Pérez has done alright in the races but has an arguably equal car to Ferrari et cetera. Kovalainen's been too slow in races as well, so is way overrated with regards to this season. Since Massa is included on the top 10 list it means I regard Ferrari to have an identical car to Sauber, and Massa's beaten Kobayashi for points so far. Our car has been shockingly poor this season. This weekend it's better than Sauber but whenever there's a single fast corner around, even Alonso gets beat by Kobayashi (!) in qualifying...

Edited by jeze, 13 October 2012 - 14:30.


#132 Alarcon

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:32

TOP 5 so far:

1st: VETTEL
2nd: LEWIS
3rd: ALONSO

4th: HULKENBERG
5th: DI RESTA

Edited by Alarcon, 13 October 2012 - 14:33.


#133 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:35

...Pérez has done alright in the races but has an arguably equal car to Ferrari et cetera ... Since Massa is included on the top 10 list it means I regard Ferrari to have an identical car to Sauber, and Massa's beaten Kobayashi for points so far. Our car has been shockingly poor this season. This weekend it's better than Sauber but whenever there's a single fast corner around, even Alonso gets beat by Kobayashi (!) in qualifying...


Good list, Fernando. :up: Good luck tomorrow, and don´t cry that much, you guys have been looking quite strong from Barcelona on, and tomorrow you look really good again. :p

Remember to mind Romain, and you´ll be allright. :smoking:

#134 jeze

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:47

Good list, Fernando. :up: Good luck tomorrow, and don´t cry that much, you guys have been looking quite strong from Barcelona on, and tomorrow you look really good again. :p

Remember to mind Romain, and you´ll be allright. :smoking:

I'm not Fernando :p

But I measure how good a car is on how good it is around Hungaroring, Spa's sector 2 and Suzuka in qualifying. Ferrari sucked in all three departments and that's very sad. Back in 2007 or 2008 we always could expect that either Kimi or Felipe would fight for pole whenever there was a fast corner, now there's just no downforce at all. Sauber, Williams and Force India have outqualified Alonso on such tracks this season so come on... we all know Fernando is at least a couple of tenths quicker than average drivers like Kobayashi and Massa around places where high-speed bravery is required (basically everywhere but Valencia) and even more on low-grip places like Singapore. I don't see many drivers around that would outqualify Alonso in dry conditions in the same car. Hamilton and Vettel would probably do it half the time, Button two-three times a year, Webber maybe five-six times, Di Resta, Räikkönen, Grosjean and Rosberg might have a shot at doing that too a couple of times a year... but the rest? Nah... Kimi comes alive on race days that's his quality, but unless he's in the best car he has no hope on the front two rows on 90 % of tracks. Korea is a track that suits his driving style perfectly, long out-lap and a long stretch where each tyre is active during the warm-up lap so he can heat them up. Had Korea been there in 2007 and 2008 Kimi would've won that race easily because that's what he does best, and I'll give him credit for that :up:

But whenever Kobayashi or Maldonado outqualifies Alonso I know it is the car, and Ferrari know this too. Unfortunately since the wind-tunnel continues to flop we'll do this again again and again and that's why we need Vettel. Two best drivers and one less rival. Thanks a lot for that. Having the cake and eating it :wave: So please sign him up.

Massa finished 2nd in 2008 after all..

Edited by jeze, 13 October 2012 - 20:04.


#135 olliek88

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:00

My (slightly controversial) top 5 so far.

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Pic


I know, i know......... but someone's got to look out for the little guys!


#136 jrg19

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:06

1. Alonso
2. Lewis
3. Vettel



#137 Sapphiresteel

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:08

1. Vettel 90
2. Räikkönen 88
3. Alonso 87
4. Hamilton 84
5. Perez 82

#138 Jimisgod

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:16

So I counted the averages of the 11 members (including myself) who posted a rating for every driver in either a 0-10 scale or 0-100 scale. As such, the Autosport forum 2012 performance ratings (so far) are as such:

1. Alonso ------92.1
2. Vettel -------87.8
3. Hamilton -----85
4. Raikkonen ---84.5
5. Perez -------78
6. Webber -----71.5
7. Button ------71.3
8. Hulkenberg --71
9. Rosberg -----70.1
10. Kobayashi --68
11. Maldonado -66.4
= Di Resta -----66.4
13. Kovalainen --64.7
14. Glock -------63.5
15. Schumacher -62.9
16. Pic ----------61.8
17. Ricciardo -----60.6
18. Grosjean -----58.9
19. de la Rosa ---55.5
20. Massa --------54.5
21. Petrov --------53.7
22. Vergne -------52.4
23. Senna --------48.5
24. Karthikeyan --37.5


Eh, this one is too weighted towards the car as opposed to the driver. The first 4 or 5 are far to far out in front.

Daniel has shown to be rather better than the 17th best driver on the grid, and it's embarrassing that he is behind Heikki and Glock, who aren't really showing up their teammates as much despite having years under their belt.

Schumacher probably deserves to be higher, too.

Edited by Jimisgod, 13 October 2012 - 15:17.


#139 GT Racing Online Magazine

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:22

Alonso - 95
Raikkonen - 92
Vettel - 91
Perez - 90
Hamilton - 88
Kobayashi - 84
Button - 84
Webber - 82
Rosberg - 79
Hulkenberg - 77
Schumacher - 76
Di Resta - 75
Ricciardo - 75
Pic - 73
Glock - 73
Kovalainen - 73
Grosjean - 72
Maldonado - 71
Massa - 71
de la Rosa - 70
Vergne - 70
Petrov - 70
Senna - 63
Karthekayen - 50

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#140 Cesc

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:26

1- Alonso
2- Hamilton
3- Perez
4- Raikkonen
5- Vettel
6- Maldonado***

Alonso has been the best so far, with quite a big gap versus his rivals.

Hamilton has been quiteok, but he always has to deal with a few horrible weekends, like the one in Suzuka.

Perez has done some brilliant races considering his experience and the car he´s driving.

Raikkonen has been way more consistent than most of the top ones and only Alonso has been betten than him on that sense.

I don´t see anything special in Vettel´s season. He has been able to perform only when he has had the fastest car. BEsides, he has shown some attitude problems versus his rivals when things doné go as he wants, a little bit spoiled kid attitude to me. He needs some experience in a crap car to be more humble.

Maldonado has a special consideration in my list. He´s so aggresive and has been involved in incidents so many times that his results are somehow "fake". But the guy has shown some real talent from time to time. He has literally destroyed Senna in terms of raw speed and has done great quali sessions (he has even won a race!). It is a pitty that he and Grosejan are battling for the "more in race incidents" championship. Races like Barcelona, Valencia (without the colision with Hamilton) or Singapore have been great from him.





#141 kartinhero

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:44

Raikkonen 94
Vettel 87
Alonso 86
Perez 82
Hamilton 81
Di Resta 80
Button 77
Webber 76
Massa 60
Grosjean 58


#142 ZZei

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:44


I don´t see anything special in Vettel´s season. He has been able to perform only when he has had the fastest car. BEsides, he has shown some attitude problems versus his rivals when things doné go as he wants, a little bit spoiled kid attitude to me. He needs some experience in a crap car to be more humble.

[/quote]
Im sorry but there is no sense in these posts. Give me a driver who doesnt moan or critisize to the radio. After all, we only hear what the broadcasters want us to hear, it just happens to be vettel who we hear more cause hes on top. Not saying he doesnt sound aggressive on the radio. This "spoiled kid" crap just comes naturally when hes about to win the 3rd title in a row.

#143 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:19

I don´t see anything special in Vettel´s season. He has been able to perform only when he has had the fastest car. BEsides, he has shown some attitude problems versus his rivals when things doné go as he wants, a little bit spoiled kid attitude to me. He needs some experience in a crap car to be more humble.


Uh-oh. Someone is smelling the danger... :smoking: The "if he wins he´s a fluke 3x WDC" campaign begins.

Wonder how many times he must proof himself to stop people always comming up with the "of course he wins, he´s driving a RB" crap.