Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 7 votes

Honda open to F1 return / McLaren to use Honda engines from 2015 [merged]


  • Please log in to reply
1442 replies to this topic

#551 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,661 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:58

Excuse the typo, I meant CRV not CRZ. I can't for the life of me remember which Autocar Mag I read it in but I'm sure it said the Honda diesel technology was bought in from another OEM, which I believe was Isuzu.

Edited by Petroltorque, 10 March 2013 - 06:14.


Advertisement

#552 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 3,025 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:17


Hyundai engines on CR-V and Civic? Never heard. As far as I know they've used diesels of Rover's and Isuzu's in the past but Hyundai? Their recent ones like CTD and DTEC are Honda's diesel. They shud use other companies products for peripheral parts like sparkplug and turbocharger but engine? Makers like Toyota and Nissan have complex oem relationships with other companies (sometimes even the whole car is oem) but Honda likes to do it on their own. I dont really know much about what they do in european and american market tho, it's pretty common that the same car use different engine depending on location, eg Mazda3 uses or used engines provided by Ford (iirc). But Honda consumer cars not run by Honda engine? I'm not so sure.

#553 tkulla

tkulla
  • Member

  • 3,141 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 09 March 2013 - 15:15

The problem with this topic is that we're going to have to wait FOREVER for an official announcement. If McLaren is actually going to use Honda engines in 2015 that means the usual time to announce such a thing would be summer of 2014, or roughly 16 months from now. I foresee a lot of pages of going in circles in this thread in that much time...

#554 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 804 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 09 March 2013 - 15:33

The problem with this topic is that we're going to have to wait FOREVER for an official announcement. If McLaren is actually going to use Honda engines in 2015 that means the usual time to announce such a thing would be summer of 2014, or roughly 16 months from now. I foresee a lot of pages of going in circles in this thread in that much time...


We could have a confirmation earlier than that, but if it doesn't happen, we will always have rumors :p

#555 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,629 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 09 March 2013 - 19:58

Excuse the typo, I meant CRV not CRZ. I can't for the live of me remember which Autocar Mag I read it in but I'm sure it said the Honda disel technilogy was bought in from another OEM.

I don't know where you get this silly Hyundai information from.
Honda's 2.2 and 1.6 diesels have been developed in-house.

#556 Felix

Felix
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 09 March 2013 - 22:05

I don't know where you get this silly Hyundai information from.
Honda's 2.2 and 1.6 diesels have been developed in-house.

Agreed:

http://world.honda.c...05/c050601.html

#557 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,421 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:10

They're miles behind many european manufacturers in automotive engine technology these days.

Let's ignore BMW/Mercedes as it is not fair to compare low-cost car with those.

They're miles behind many european manufacturers in automotive engine technology these days.

..That's true *but* is VW a best selling brand for economy commuter vehicles in USA? No. Do VW even try to sell twinchargers in basic commuter vehicles to Americans? No they are still n/a 2.0-2.5L and people still think they are unreliable even without stories of 3x twincharger engine replacement in 3 year old 40,000 mile Golf. :)

Is Honda one of the best selling economy commuter vehicle brand in USA? Yes.

Horses for courses. Will these 1.4-1.6L stressed turbos in non-performance A-to-B vehicles really last for 250,000 miles and 20 years, as the marketplace expects? It remains to be determined.

There is no problem with advanced complicated engines in performance cars, but I am not sure of the wisdom of them being in mundane vehicles, it is worth the hassle of a Golf being parked on the roadside waiting for a towtruck to get 15% improved economy when it's working? :)

#558 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,421 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:15

eg Mazda3 uses or used engines provided by Ford (iirc).

Vice versa I think. I believe the 2.0 GDI focus is based on the mazda skyactiv engine. (And yes, it is also more advanced than Honda. That's true. But only Honda can claim the record of only 1 in 300 engine failure rate, from after market warranty insurer stats, about twice as good as Toyota. :) )

#559 joora

joora
  • Member

  • 350 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 10 March 2013 - 21:18

I have a civic with 2.2 i-CTDI diesel engine and it's brilliant!



Advertisement

#560 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,767 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:32

This is mighty interesting:

Honda sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that it plans to return to Formula 1 as an engine supplier to McLaren.



#561 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,243 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:41

This is mighty interesting:


Surprised that anyone would confirm anything at this time. Have to wonder who the source is.

#562 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,629 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:44

Italy's omnicorse.it says that Gilles Simon has been hired by Honda as a consultant. He spends 1 week per month at the Tochigi R&D facility in Japan.
Gilles Simon was previously with Ferrari, then FIA and last with P.U.R.E.

#563 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,767 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:46

Surprised that anyone would confirm anything at this time. Have to wonder who the source is.


Interesting, also, is what Whitmarsh says:

There is nothing to announce at the moment. I can't elaborate any further. We have a contract that covers the next three seasons at the moment and we will certainly go into next year [2014] with Mercedes-Benz.



#564 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,243 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:46

Italy's omnicorse.it says that Gilles Simon has been hired by Honda as a consultant. He spends 1 week per month at the Tochigi R&D facility in Japan.
Gilles Simon was previously with Ferrari, then FIA and last with P.U.R.E.


But that's old news and not the same as Honda sources confirm, or are they saying he has said it?


#565 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,243 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:49

Interesting, also, is what Whitmarsh says:


I'm not all surprised if it is true. The indications have been there. Just surprised that an unknown source would let the cat out of the bag.

#566 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,629 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:54

But that's old news and not the same as Honda sources confirm, or are they saying he has said it?

What did Honda sources confirm?

#567 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,243 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:00

What did Honda sources confirm?


Did you bother to read the article that we are discussing?

#568 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:01

Sad for McLaren. Last Honda was in F1 they were possibly the worst engine available. The only year the Honda F1 team was ever successful was when they stopped using Honda engine and started using a Mercedes engine (2009).

The pissing match between RD and Mercedes has just been so destructive to both companies. Both of them have been less successful than ever and spent more money on competing products than ever.

Maybe Mercedes is now going to be ok with their massive throwing money at everything. But I have to say I think things look bleak for McL.

Edited by 2ms, 11 March 2013 - 13:03.


#569 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 3,025 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:04


"Honda sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that it plans to return to Formula 1 as an engine supplier to McLaren. "

wut :lol:



Sad for McLaren.

nothing confirmed yet :lol:

Edited by muramasa, 11 March 2013 - 13:07.


#570 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:05

Sad for McLaren. Last Honda was in F1 they were possibly the worst engine available. The only year the Honda F1 team was ever successful was when they stopped using Honda engine and started using a Mercedes engine (2009).

The pissing match between RD and Mercedes has just been so destructive to both companies. Both of them have been less successful than ever and spent more money on competing products than ever.

Maybe Mercedes is now going to be ok with their massive throwing money at everything. But I have to say I think things look bleak for McL.


Not sad at all, the last engine wasn't that bad, the car they put it in tended to be though. Honda have great experience with Turbo V6 engines and will be better placed than they were in the V8 V10 era.

Quote: Given the success last time around - five seasons from 1988-1992 that yielded four drivers/constructors' championship doubles - that can only be good news for McLaren.

Edited by JRizzle86, 11 March 2013 - 13:07.


#571 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:09

Sad for McLaren. Last Honda was in F1 they were possibly the worst engine available. The only year the Honda F1 team was ever successful was when they stopped using Honda engine and started using a Mercedes engine (2009).

The pissing match between RD and Mercedes has just been so destructive to both companies. Both of them have been less successful than ever and spent more money on competing products than ever.

Maybe Mercedes is now going to be ok with their massive throwing money at everything. But I have to say I think things look bleak for McL.


I think its a world of difference between producing a chassis, engine and running a team and producing the engine alone.

Then you have Honda's experience in the area - not only in F1.

Then you have to consider that McLaren wont go into this blind and will have to be convinced they can be competative with a Honda lump.

Its far, far to early to say things look bleak for McLaren I am afraid.

Edited by Burtros, 11 March 2013 - 13:10.


#572 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,243 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:10

Sad for McLaren. Last Honda was in F1 they were possibly the worst engine available. The only year the Honda F1 team was ever successful was when they stopped using Honda engine and started using a Mercedes engine (2009).

The pissing match between RD and Mercedes has just been so destructive to both companies. Both of them have been less successful than ever and spent more money on competing products than ever.

Maybe Mercedes is now going to be ok with their massive throwing money at everything. But I have to say I think things look bleak for McL.


Actually its sad for you that your unable to understand the circumstances that led to that situation. Honda have plenty of time to develop an engine, and if they do then I have no doubt it will be as good as any of the championship winning engines they have produced in the past.

#573 NoDivergence

NoDivergence
  • Member

  • 1,811 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:10

Sad for McLaren. Last Honda was in F1 they were possibly the worst engine available. The only year the Honda F1 team was ever successful was when they stopped using Honda engine and started using a Mercedes engine (2009).

The pissing match between RD and Mercedes has just been so destructive to both companies. Both of them have been less successful than ever and spent more money on competing products than ever.

Maybe Mercedes is now going to be ok with their massive throwing money at everything. But I have to say I think things look bleak for McL.


What are you saying? The Brawn car with a Honda engine and KERS and a gearbox that didn't have to be crammed onto that chassis would have done even better, and "reliability upgrades" to the Honda motor would have greatly improved its competitiveness. The Japanese teams stayed true to the engine freeze while everyone else didn't. I wouldn't hold that against Honda's ability to make and develop a racing engine... Look at how far their Moto GP engine has come

#574 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,629 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:12

Did you bother to read the article that we are discussing?

I probably read it before you. Answer my question. You made a vague statement about 'not same as Honda sources confirm'. Clarify that.

#575 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,243 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:15

I probably read it before you. Answer my question. You made a vague statement about 'not same as Honda sources confirm'. Clarify that.


Nothing vague at all about what I said. The article says "Honda sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that it plans to return to Formula 1 as an engine supplier to McLaren.".

#576 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,629 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:22

Nothing vague at all about what I said. The article says "Honda sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that it plans to return to Formula 1 as an engine supplier to McLaren.".

So how is that in conflict with what I wrote about Gilles Simon being hired as a consultant? It's just news (albeit unconfirmed) I was not aware of.

#577 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:27

Not sad at all, the last engine wasn't that bad, the car they put it in tended to be though. Honda have great experience with Turbo V6 engines and will be better placed than they were in the V8 V10 era.

Quote: Given the success last time around - five seasons from 1988-1992 that yielded four drivers/constructors' championship doubles - that can only be good news for McLaren.


What are you talking about? Check Rubens' take on both engines and you will see that the Honda was far from an OK engine.

What happened in the 80s with V12 is completely irrelevant.

Edited by slmk, 11 March 2013 - 13:29.


#578 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:40

What are you talking about? Check Rubens' take on both engines and you will see that the Honda was far from an OK engine.

What happened in the 80s with V12 is completely irrelevant.


do you mean what happened in the 80's with a V6 Turbo by any chance?

Only reason I say that is I dont recall any V12 Honda engine in the 80's? Early 90's yes.

I also struggle to see how Honda's efforts from 5 years ago with a V8 or V10 before that are any more relevant than other historical efforts.






#579 Lemans

Lemans
  • Member

  • 1,326 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:45

What are you talking about? Check Rubens' take on both engines and you will see that the Honda was far from an OK engine.

What happened in the 80s with V12 is completely irrelevant.


Yes. as are the engines Rubens complained about also completely irrelevant to the upcoming V6 turbo.



Advertisement

#580 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:50

Maybe they're basically going to be PURE engines. Still wonder why McL just weren't able to buy Cosworth. Would be a lot more impressive to have Cosworth name association on supercars than maker of Fit, Accord, Civic, CRV.

#581 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 3,025 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:53


Surprised to see that some people still believe what Rubens is supposed to have said about Honda and Merc engine back then. No wonder homeopathy, spiritual etc never disappear.


#582 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,629 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 11 March 2013 - 14:05

Maybe they're basically going to be PURE engines. Still wonder why McL just weren't able to buy Cosworth. Would be a lot more impressive to have Cosworth name association on supercars than maker of Fit, Accord, Civic, CRV.

You really believe Cosworth has more capability than Honda?
Do you realize that the it's not just the v6 block but about the utalization of recovery systems... you still think Cosworth has more capability?
You don't have a clue.
Honda vs Cosworth is no contest. Did you notice they are withdrawing from F1? As they do not have the resources to design and develop the new hybrid powertrain.

Edited by Timstr11, 11 March 2013 - 14:13.


#583 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 14:42

What are you talking about? Check Rubens' take on both engines and you will see that the Honda was far from an OK engine.

What happened in the 80s with V12 is completely irrelevant.


Any of Honda's engine history is relevant. The part that fell down more than any was when they started building their own chassis.

Edited by JRizzle86, 11 March 2013 - 14:45.


#584 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 14:45

Maybe they're basically going to be PURE engines. Still wonder why McL just weren't able to buy Cosworth. Would be a lot more impressive to have Cosworth name association on supercars than maker of Fit, Accord, Civic, CRV.


NSX?, or Acura models, i.e Toyota has Lexus, Nissan has Infiniti, Honda has Acura.

Edited by JRizzle86, 11 March 2013 - 14:47.


#585 BillBald

BillBald
  • Member

  • 3,438 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 14:47

What are you talking about? Check Rubens' take on both engines and you will see that the Honda was far from an OK engine.

What happened in the 80s with V12 is completely irrelevant.


The situation regarding the Honda V8 has been explained before.

Honda produced a new, much more powerful version of their engine just before the engine freeze, but decided not to use it because it was unreliable. They then compounded the problem by not applying 'reliability updates' to the old engine, because it WAS reliable.

The most you could say is that they didn't know how the game was being played. I'm sure that McLaren will bring them up to speed if similar issues arise again.



#586 Boing 2

Boing 2
  • Member

  • 2,505 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 11 March 2013 - 15:16

The Mugen Honda in the Ligier/Jordan wasn't half bad, when BAR got a half decent chassis in 05 (?) they went pretty well. I was always under the impression it was a chassis/aero weakness that killed them rather than engine.

#587 2ms

2ms
  • Member

  • 2,212 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 15:39

NSX?, or Acura models, i.e Toyota has Lexus, Nissan has Infiniti, Honda has Acura.


McLaren want to be a supercar company that people think of as being in the same league as Ferrari and Lamborghini. In fact, they want to ask people to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on them. Having Honda engines isn't going to cut it no matter what badge they intend to slap on them (Acura, Super Type R, whatever). Hyundai makes a car more expensive than any currently available Honda (£70,000 Equus). Doesn't mean people would buy a Ferrari with a Hyundai engine. You can see how well Honda and Toyota engines have worked out for Lotus. Honda is at an all time low right now in general prestige and engine technology. Moreover, where F1 is concerned, their most recent F1 effort was a big disappointment.

Surely Mercedes has successfully put McL in a very desperate situation, or else RD is truly delusional.

People that buy supercars buy them to impress people and to feel like they have something really exotic and special. McL will fail if they try to sell supercar buyers Honda engines. That's the bottom line. By letting Honda in on their name in F1, it'll basically be like acknowledging they don't have the ability to build their own engines. That, of course, is the truth, but companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini know you have to hide it if you want to sell supercars. They would have been infinitely better off buying Cosworth or PURE and rebading as McLaren. Cosworth, in fact, has a name that they might not even have to rebadge.

The fact that RD was not able to make any of these other alternatives happen indicates to me that he has a kind of delusional ego that will make the company crash and burn. British sportscar companies should be top of the heap. Instead, they're all a shambles.

Edited by 2ms, 11 March 2013 - 15:44.


#588 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 15:55

McLaren want to be a supercar company that people think of as being in the same league as Ferrari and Lamborghini. In fact, they want to ask people to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on them. Having Honda engines isn't going to cut it no matter what badge they intend to slap on them (Acura, Super Type R, whatever). Hyundai makes a car more expensive than any currently available Honda (£70,000 Equus). Doesn't mean people would buy a Ferrari with a Hyundai engine. You can see how well Honda and Toyota engines have worked out for Lotus. Honda is at an all time low right now in general prestige and engine technology. Moreover, where F1 is concerned, their most recent F1 effort was a big disappointment.

Surely Mercedes has successfully put McL in a very desperate situation, or else RD is truly delusional.

People that buy supercars buy them to impress people and to feel like they have something really exotic and special. McL will fail if they try to sell supercar buyers Honda engines. That's the bottom line. By letting Honda in on their name in F1, it'll basically be like acknowledging they don't have the ability to build their own engines. That, of course, is the truth, but companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini know you have to hide it if you want to sell supercars. They would have been infinitely better off buying Cosworth or PURE and rebading as McLaren. Cosworth, in fact, has a name that they might not even have to rebadge.

The fact that RD was not able to make any of these other alternatives happen indicates to me that he has a kind of delusional ego that will make the company crash and burn. British sportscar companies should be top of the heap. Instead, they're all a shambles.


Pretty sure McLaren are measured by their successes in the sport not by the name of the engine supplier in the car. Yes Mercedes carries more prestige than a Honda, but Honda actually has a Motorsport history that probably surpasses even Mercedes. Put it this way people who buy McLarens as road cars buy them because they are McLarens not because their raceteam is powered by Merc or Honda.

Desperate situation, more like a perfect opportunity.

Edited by JRizzle86, 11 March 2013 - 15:56.


#589 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 2,150 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 16:51

It seems like we will see McLaren-Honda dream team in a few years :clap:

#590 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,912 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 11 March 2013 - 17:50

Looking from outside, surely McLaren teaming up with its most successful engine partner is a good thing?
Maybe it's just me.

Although the devil inside me was hoping for Vodafone McLaren Ferrari :evil: :lol:

#591 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 3,025 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 11 March 2013 - 17:54

Honda is at an all time low right now in general prestige and engine technology. Moreover, where F1 is concerned, their most recent F1 effort was a big disappointment.

you simply dont know what Honda is and only judge Honda based on image of those dumb earth-color F1 cars.

They started off by making machine tools and small engine for bicycle, then super-cubs and light trucks. Their first 4-wheel car came out in 1963. Yes ninety-sixtythree. and their first F1 operation was from 1964-68. When they first came to F1 they barely had only few, light vehicle 4wheels.

They arent prestige company, and not trying to be in the first place. They are and will always be a company that is next to you, offering compact generators, agriculture machine, affordable bikes and cars. They also have NSX, ASIMO, Hondajet, and F1.
From general machine tools to small cars to Asimo to F1 to jet plane...THAT'S HONDA. They are Honda and only trying to be Honda.

I have no idea what you mean by all time low in engine. You just dont know. They are making superb engines, they have ambitious earth dreams project that is gradually coming to fruition.


#592 onewingedangel

onewingedangel
  • Member

  • 909 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 11 March 2013 - 18:43

If Honda are looking to re-enter F1 in 2015, I wonder if they will run the engine in a WEC car for 2014 for development purposes.

If they ask nicely, McLaren could loan them a former technical director to help design the platform for the next 9 months. :lol:

#593 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 804 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 11 March 2013 - 19:52

It seems like we will see McLaren-Honda dream team in a few years :clap:


I hope so! Vodafone McLaren Honda has a nice touch in the ear.

#594 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,767 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 11 March 2013 - 20:32

I hope so! Vodafone McLaren Honda has a nice touch in the ear.


The Vodafone contract runs out after 2013, doesn't it? And Vodafone are thought to not want to renew the deal.

#595 athlon

athlon
  • Member

  • 508 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 20:41

The Vodafone contract runs out after 2013, doesn't it? And Vodafone are thought to not want to renew the deal.



It's time to bring Marlboro back from Ferrari :)

#596 athlon

athlon
  • Member

  • 508 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 11 March 2013 - 20:43

If Honda are looking to re-enter F1 in 2015, I wonder if they will run the engine in a WEC car for 2014 for development purposes.

If they ask nicely, McLaren could loan them a former technical director to help design the platform for the next 9 months. :lol:


This should be a suitable option. I would like to see them partnering Williams.

Or if they are going to supply Marussia, it can be converted as their work team in a few years time. :rotfl:

#597 V3TT3L

V3TT3L
  • Member

  • 1,681 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 11 March 2013 - 20:59

Honda must take care. :eek:

McLaren could manipulate/use them to get a better financial deal over the Mercedes engines 2015 and on.

After all in F1's Pirana Club, Ron Dennis is the King Shark.

#598 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:49

The Mugen Honda in the Ligier/Jordan wasn't half bad, when BAR got a half decent chassis in 05 (?) they went pretty well. I was always under the impression it was a chassis/aero weakness that killed them rather than engine.

The V10 was good, the V8 sucked. It was 04 by the way, great chassis, good engine but they were flattered at the start of the season by other teams not having their 'shit' together.

#599 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:52

Just had a thought, could Mclaren build a generic single seater chassis, give it to Honda, Honda plonk their engine into it, and pound around Suzuka for a year refining, adding performance etc, and as they aren't in F1, they don't fall under testing restrictions? Or Honda just simply use a single seater chassis they already have...know what I mean? That wouldn't be illegal would it? Then come in with a years worth of solid track testing under their belts and trump the field.

Advertisement

#600 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,767 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:54

Just had a thought, could Mclaren build a generic single seater chassis, give it to Honda, Honda plonk their engine into it, and pound around Suzuka for a year refining, adding performance etc, and as they aren't in F1, they don't fall under testing restrictions? Or Honda just simply use a single seater chassis they already have...know what I mean? That wouldn't be illegal would it? Then come in with a years worth of solid track testing under their belts and trump the field.


It's what Honda did in 1999 (with a Dallara-commissioned chassis), and Toyota in 2001, prior to its 2002 debut.