Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 6 votes

Honda open to F1 return / McLaren to use Honda engines from 2015 [merged]


  • Please log in to reply
1423 replies to this topic

#701 JRizzle86

JRizzle86
  • Member

  • 2,087 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 18 March 2013 - 21:54

I hope that , if it's possible, they will supply engines to Williams as well. What a superb retro-F1 would that be.


Williams Renault always sounded better to me.

Advertisement

#702 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 802 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 18 March 2013 - 21:57

Williams Renault always sounded better to me.


Yeah, me too, Williams Renault vs McLaren Honda vs Ferrari sounds too good to be true again. Let's hope it's true.

#703 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,368 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:00

I just hope for McLaren's sake Honda don't decide to do a Lamborghini and go with a small team first.

Honda don't decide to do a Lamborghini and therefore should go with a small team first. ?

Honda don't decide to do a Lamborghini and don't go with a small team first. ?

Sorry I don't quite follow, English is a problematic language with many poor design features. Of course Honda will not go with a small team. Racing with Jordan and BAR was a big waste of time. You got to get with the top teams. :up: McLaren need not worry, I am sure the engine will be adequately competitive.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 19 March 2013 - 05:01.


#704 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 942 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:02

Honda don't decide to do a Lamborghini and therefore should go with a small team first. ?

Honda don't decide to do a Lamborghini and don't go with a small team first. ?

Sorry I don't quite follow, English is a problematic language with many poor design features. Of course Honda will not go with a small team. Racing with Jordan and BAR was a big waste of time. You got to get with the top teams. :up: McLaren need not worry, I am sure the engine will be adequately competitive.

When Lambo came to F1, they decided to go with Larousse because it was a smaller team and they could 'grow' with the team, I 'don't' want that to happen because i 'want' them to supply McLaren.

#705 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 2,971 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:09

I'd be more surprised if the development was going on somewhere else since every F1 engine ever developed by Honda has been designed there.

Its nice to see though that they've hired an external consultant (presumably Gilles Simon). I hope they don't repeat the same mistakes as previously, ie focussing on top end power and headline power figures rather than torque and driveability. I also hope they retain a core cadre of F1 engineers who will only ever work on the engine rather than changing the entire team every few months.

Otherwise I agree, it just confirms rumours from elsewhere but the more conservative nature of Japanese newspapers makes it much much more likely to be true.

I thought this time they might outsource or collaborate with outfits like Cosworth in order to reduce costs and mitigate risks. If they do it in-house at home that would be fantastic.

Hiring Simon (supposing it's true) should be good move. he was involved in reg making of 14 engine to some degree and has actual experience of developing it at PURE, so it would give Honda quite a bit of shortcuts.

Timing is interesting.

Mclaren fails to deliver in Australia. > Big paper manifest in Japan the return of Honda, that fix the autosport's article. > conclusion, Honda is Doing it with Mclaren.

Honda said nothing yet...

Nothing to do with Mclaren's form at OZ, but probably to do with OZGP. Circulating news on early Monday morning, right after opening race of the season, to see the market reaction, perhaps. Judging by the way Japanese media reported it, I suspect there was official leak as I said before, but that's just my hunch.



#706 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:31

Gilles Simons did engines for Ferrari when development was frozen by FIA. ...

Is it such a great idea to get Simons? He does know well about FIA reg and have very close line with Jean,... Still Ilmore engine is the most impressive in terms of concept design.

After watching OZ race, the order is apparently Lotus > FI > Sauber... Got to wait a bit more. Sauber car is not as good s it has been reported and discussed this year? James Aloson to move to Mclaren in 2014? FI to go bust? Mclaren is fallibg all time low? ...complex...

#707 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 19 March 2013 - 13:18

Why did Merc originally supply Mac with free engines?
Why do Renault supply RB with free engines?

Forgive me short response, but I have no idea, assuming if it is so as you are stating. Corporations do not spend money mindlessly, and there is always an objective; I just do not know what those are. On speculative side, for Honda several concepts could fit such as association with McLaren; a test case for new product, a marketing launch platform, means of getting foot into the F1-door first followed by contractually signing-on majority of teams, thus dominating headlines... who knows.

Edited by Sakae, 19 March 2013 - 13:22.


#708 katmen

katmen
  • Member

  • 570 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 19 March 2013 - 14:36

just see on my twitter:
James Allen ‏@Jamesallenonf1
#f1 Japanese paper Asahi Shimbun report Honda 2015 deal with McLaren is done. They were always the journal of record in past for Honda leaks

here is that article:

http://ajw.asahi.com.../AJ201303180080

another source? :
http://blogs.wsj.com...-for-f1-return/

edit: added sources

Edited by katmen, 19 March 2013 - 14:43.


#709 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 2,971 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:07

^^
that's what I mentioned yesterday, didnt know there was english version of the article.

But no, JA is wrong.

tell him that (`・ω・)


#710 Wiggy

Wiggy
  • Member

  • 450 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 19 March 2013 - 15:17

Has Honda made any comment since this specuation began?

#711 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,211 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:09

Forgive me short response, but I have no idea, assuming if it is so as you are stating. Corporations do not spend money mindlessly, and there is always an objective; I just do not know what those are. On speculative side, for Honda several concepts could fit such as association with McLaren; a test case for new product, a marketing launch platform, means of getting foot into the F1-door first followed by contractually signing-on majority of teams, thus dominating headlines... who knows.


I'm a little confused by your posts. Are you unaware of the many works engine deals that have been around for a long time?

#712 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 3,754 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 19 March 2013 - 16:51

Forgive me short response, but I have no idea, assuming if it is so as you are stating. Corporations do not spend money mindlessly, and there is always an objective; I just do not know what those are. On speculative side, for Honda several concepts could fit such as association with McLaren; a test case for new product, a marketing launch platform, means of getting foot into the F1-door first followed by contractually signing-on majority of teams, thus dominating headlines... who knows.


Sakae, it is just like any other sponsorship/partnership deal. This has been around in F1 for ages. Honda's marketing themselves by having an advertising presence on McLaren (*Sponsor* Mclaren-Honda). Instead of paying McLaren money to do this, they are supplying goods and/or services instead (Engine + R&D that comes with it). The most recent works effort (not entire team effort), of theirs was BAR-Honda. I believe Super Aguri was also a works deal for some time (I cannot guarantee that this is correct, though), with a requirement that Takuma Sato would occupy one of their seats.

#713 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 2,971 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 19 March 2013 - 17:55

I believe Super Aguri was also a works deal for some time (I cannot guarantee that this is correct, though),

sort of, as much of SA development had been done at Tochigi as well as at of course Brackley. but it was not simple, as evidenced by anecdote that Suzuki told, that one day he received a paper/letter from Honda, he thought it's about car update plan or sth but actually it was a reminder of engine fee payment.

Suzuki fell victim to cheating by fake oil company that was SA's main sponsor, and as a result was sued by the security firm for being unable to pay back about 15billion yen ($15mil) loan. I think he and his company ended up losing $17mil and of course his A-company that managed SA operation as well as his other racing activity had had to go bankrupt.

with a requirement that Takuma Sato would occupy one of their seats.

maybe I should put this to F1 myth thread. ( ・ω・)
Suzuki had been wanting to have his f1 team, and at that time Honda wanted customer team to share car development because of soon-to-be-scrapped customer team plan and budget cap scheme by Bernie, exact same reason RedBull purchased Minardi outfit.

SA had Sato coz Suzuki wanted to create all-Japan lineup.

If Honda wanted Sato that much, they couldve retained him for 06 or done whatever they wanted to do easily coz they were just becoming Honda team. Also look at how Honda squashed Super Aguri early in 2008, there cannot be worse way to finish an f1 team than that.
Also remember that Sato had offer from Spyker for 06, so it wasnt like he was definitely losing f1 seat after 2005 season.


#714 Jackmancer

Jackmancer
  • Member

  • 2,775 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 19 March 2013 - 18:29

Posted Image
or
Posted Image

Edited by Jackmancer, 19 March 2013 - 18:31.


#715 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 3,754 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 19 March 2013 - 18:32

Wow, that is a stunning render (the first one)

Edited by mclarensmps, 19 March 2013 - 18:32.


#716 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,202 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 18:32

the livery just looks like 2012 sauber painted red ... horrible TBH
and...

shell won't quit ferrari, better stick to mobil 1

#717 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 3,754 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 19 March 2013 - 18:38

sort of, as much of SA development had been done at Tochigi as well as at of course Brackley. but it was not simple, as evidenced by anecdote that Suzuki told, that one day he received a paper/letter from Honda, he thought it's about car update plan or sth but actually it was a reminder of engine fee payment.

Suzuki fell victim to cheating by fake oil company that was SA's main sponsor, and as a result was sued by the security firm for being unable to pay back about 15billion yen ($15mil) loan. I think he and his company ended up losing $17mil and of course his A-company that managed SA operation as well as his other racing activity had had to go bankrupt.


maybe I should put this to F1 myth thread. ( ・ω・)
Suzuki had been wanting to have his f1 team, and at that time Honda wanted customer team to share car development because of soon-to-be-scrapped customer team plan and budget cap scheme by Bernie, exact same reason RedBull purchased Minardi outfit.

SA had Sato coz Suzuki wanted to create all-Japan lineup.

If Honda wanted Sato that much, they couldve retained him for 06 or done whatever they wanted to do easily coz they were just becoming Honda team. Also look at how Honda squashed Super Aguri early in 2008, there cannot be worse way to finish an f1 team than that.
Also remember that Sato had offer from Spyker for 06, so it wasnt like he was definitely losing f1 seat after 2005 season.


That is interesting, I did not know that much of the details of how things panned out. Thanks for that info :). It's a pity that things ended up the way they did for Mr. Suzuki, I really liked him, and absolutely loved the F1 team! As for the way S.A was dismantled, I wholeheartedly agree. It's a real kick in the teeth, but the way things panned out, I am sure a fair few employees saw it coming. At least they can be proud of the fact that the fruits of their labour came good in '09 with the car they helped develop dominating that year!

#718 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 19 March 2013 - 19:53

Sakae, it is just like any other sponsorship/partnership deal. This has been around in F1 for ages. Honda's marketing themselves by having an advertising presence on McLaren (*Sponsor* Mclaren-Honda). Instead of paying McLaren money to do this, they are supplying goods and/or services instead (Engine + R&D that comes with it). The most recent works effort (not entire team effort), of theirs was BAR-Honda. I believe Super Aguri was also a works deal for some time (I cannot guarantee that this is correct, though), with a requirement that Takuma Sato would occupy one of their seats.

Err, maybe, but probably not so. Paying for real state on the body of McLaren to place Honda decals would be sort of an expensive, but understandable marketing exercise. In contrast, developing a new engine, support operations on two tracks (home factory and in paddock), and make just handful of prototypes is totally different, and very expensive proposition, which stubbornly makes me to dwell on the idea, that after the engine development there could be another phase for Honda to follow. What I mean is that they could purchase McLaren, for example, and become a full team some way down the road.

Edited by Sakae, 19 March 2013 - 19:55.


#719 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,194 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 19 March 2013 - 20:18

Err, maybe, but probably not so. Paying for real state on the body of McLaren to place Honda decals would be sort of an expensive, but understandable marketing exercise. In contrast, developing a new engine, support operations on two tracks (home factory and in paddock), and make just handful of prototypes is totally different, and very expensive proposition, which stubbornly makes me to dwell on the idea, that after the engine development there could be another phase for Honda to follow. What I mean is that they could purchase McLaren, for example, and become a full team some way down the road.

Presumably they're unaware of what went on between Merc and Mclaren in your scenario?

Advertisement

#720 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 942 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:09

Dannnnnnng that red and white render is beautiful.

#721 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,751 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:20

What I mean is that they could purchase McLaren, for example, and become a full team some way down the road.


I don't think McLaren is (wholly) for sale.
By the way, not only did both times that Honda were/owned a team end up with rather expensive single-digit race wins, McLaren's experience with manufacturer ownership was a relative failure as well.

#722 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 802 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:55

Posted Image

:up:

It looks great!

#723 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,859 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:23

I can't help but think of Marlboro when I see that red and white mockup.

#724 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:27

Honda logo is too small.
McLaren fuel provider is Mobil 1, not Shell.

#725 Talisman

Talisman
  • Member

  • 772 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:19

Err, maybe, but probably not so. Paying for real state on the body of McLaren to place Honda decals would be sort of an expensive, but understandable marketing exercise. In contrast, developing a new engine, support operations on two tracks (home factory and in paddock), and make just handful of prototypes is totally different, and very expensive proposition, which stubbornly makes me to dwell on the idea, that after the engine development there could be another phase for Honda to follow.


Not entirely sure what you're getting at here. What you've described is exactly what a works engine deal consists of, it was good enough for Honda in the 80s/90s and in their initial years in their most recent effort from 2000 to about 2005-6 or so. The fact that Honda are willing to go down this route says nothing about their subsequent plans whatsoever. There have been plenty of car manufacturers that have provided such engine deals with no intention of buying a team. In fact I would argue that Honda is extremely unlikely to buy their own team given their most recent experience.

What I mean is that they could purchase McLaren, for example, and become a full team some way down the road.


McLaren is not for sale to a car manufacturer, they split up from Mercedes because the German company wanted to buy the Woking team, Ron Dennis refused. If Honda was interested in buying a team they are clearly looking at the wrong team, which would indicate that this is not their intention.

Edited by Talisman, 20 March 2013 - 12:19.


#726 Talisman

Talisman
  • Member

  • 772 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:20

Honda logo is too small.
McLaren fuel provider is Mobil 1, not Shell.


I also do not believe Telmex will be sponsoring McLaren either.

#727 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 56,882 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:22

And Honda now work corporately with BP, not Shell. Plus they wouldn't paint the car like a stylised Marlboro unless Marlboro was paying.

#728 Talisman

Talisman
  • Member

  • 772 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 20 March 2013 - 13:24

Plus they wouldn't paint the car like a stylised Marlboro unless Marlboro was paying.


Honda colours are a red sundisk on a cream background which could easily be modified to fit in with the Telmex brand marking though, just as it was for the Lucky Strike logo.

#729 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 56,882 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 20 March 2013 - 13:30

That paintjob is neither Honda nor Telmex. It's a restyled Marlboro McLaren. There's more red in Vodafone branding than Honda, and they didn't run a tribute paintjob.

#730 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,202 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 20 March 2013 - 13:33

LOL

people are going crazy with this, it's like picking a name for a grandchild before the engagement proposal. let the deal come through guys, who knows, it may as well be the 'Dream earth ' livery :p

Posted Image

Edited by eronrules, 20 March 2013 - 13:33.


#731 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 20 March 2013 - 13:58

More interesting will be 2014. Mercedes won´t be too supportive to McLaren, when they will always fear that all data will go straight to Honda.

#732 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 2,971 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 20 March 2013 - 14:32

Posted Image


we have exactly this already.


Mercedes :stoned:




#733 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 440 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 20 March 2013 - 15:33

Nice pictures, but as I've said before, TelMex is not a global company so they will never be a title sponsor. If Carlos slim ponies up for a title sponsorship, he will do it with the Claro brand.

#734 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,751 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 March 2013 - 17:17

Honda colours are a red sundisk on a cream background


Those are actually just the Japanese racing colours, just as red is Italy's, blue is France's and green is Britain's.

#735 Talisman

Talisman
  • Member

  • 772 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 20 March 2013 - 18:47

Those are actually just the Japanese racing colours, just as red is Italy's, blue is France's and green is Britain's.


I think (but I might be wrong) that red and white are Japanese racing colours as used by Toyota and Honda, but only Honda uses the red disk as per the Japanese flag.

#736 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 56,882 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 20 March 2013 - 18:48

Where has Honda been using a red disc?

#737 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,751 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 March 2013 - 18:57

I think (but I might be wrong) that red and white are Japanese racing colours as used by Toyota and Honda, but only Honda uses the red disk as per the Japanese flag.

Computer says no. ;)

#738 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,751 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 March 2013 - 18:58

Where has Honda been using a red disc?


Here:

Posted Image

#739 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 56,882 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 20 March 2013 - 19:02

Oh right. Like, 50 years ago.

Advertisement

#740 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,751 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 March 2013 - 21:33

Oh right. Like, 50 years ago.


Exactly. I think it's very unlikely that Honda will mandate the Japanese colours if/when they start working with McLaren. They didn't do that last time around with McLaren nor with BAR. And they didn't do do when they had their own factory outfit either — that was all about Lucky Strike and later about 'the Earth'.
If McLaren and Honda do team up, I fully expect the cars to remain in McLaren's corporate colours, which are chrome and black with a touch of red, perhaps win an additional colour of one title sponsor or the other.

#741 Talisman

Talisman
  • Member

  • 772 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 20 March 2013 - 21:39

Computer says no.;)


could you point out a single example of a Japanese manufacturer other than honda using the red disk on white livery?

#742 Talisman

Talisman
  • Member

  • 772 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 20 March 2013 - 21:46

Exactly. I think it's very unlikely that Honda will mandate the Japanese colours if/when they start working with McLaren. They didn't do that last time around with McLaren nor with BAR. And they didn't do do when they had their own factory outfit either — that was all about Lucky Strike and later about 'the Earth'.
If McLaren and Honda do team up, I fully expect the cars to remain in McLaren's corporate colours, which are chrome and black with a touch of red, perhaps win an additional colour of one title sponsor or the other.


Hold on a sec.

I've not claimed that Honda will mandate any livery whatsoever so please don't put words into my mouth. I just pointed out that the Honda livery happens to be similar to Telmex (actually I realise now its one of Slim's other brands, Claro), but I also pointed out that I doubt very much that any of Slim's brands will be title sponsor to replace Vodaphone.

WRT Lucky Strike, again I do wonder if BAT chose partly to use that brand with BAR because the logo, a red disk on a white background albeit with a black outline has synergy with Honda's livery as opposed to 555 with its blue colours (the other tobacco brand BAT tried to advertise in its dual livery BAR).

Although the livery mockups on this thread are fun and good looking I believe like you that McLaren will carry on with its silver/black theme, if anything the new title sponsor will likely influence the colour scheme more than Honda will. The 80s McLaren Honda livery was dictated entirely by Marlboro after all.

#743 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,751 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 March 2013 - 22:12

could you point out a single example of a Japanese manufacturer other than honda using the red disk on white livery?


I can't find any other examples, quickly, but all sources I know refer to red-disk-on-ivory as Japan's colors and not strictly Honda's. Apparently even the FIA's 1977 Yearbook said so.

On the rest of the issues we appear to agree. :)

#744 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:36

super aguri red, white and blue

Red, white and blue, is kinda ok. This blue is dar, bnut will be telmex if it need to be. Chrome instead of white, or Crome will be more pearl white...?

#745 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,827 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:39

Seems like marussia wont' be a guinea pig.
Merc or Ferrari for them, decision expected in April.
http://www.motorspor...ende-april.html

Edited by peroa, 29 March 2013 - 09:39.


#746 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 802 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:50

Seems like marussia wont' be a guinea pig.
Merc or Ferrari for them, decision expected in April.
http://www.motorspor...ende-april.html


Maybe Honda doesn't want to risk and use the engine in 2914, and use it from 2015, and Marussia need a engine in 2014.

#747 V3TT3L

V3TT3L
  • Member

  • 1,681 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 10 May 2013 - 17:42

http://www.auto-moto...da-7054748.html

According to...
Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener
#F1 @McLaren missed the deadline to sign the option for new Mercedes engine deal for 2015. So Honda it is.

Some Googled parts :drunk:

Now, four out of five customers deposited Renault in Paris, the news that you can not pay these prices. Only Red Bull has no money problem. But for Lotus, Williams, Toro Rosso, Caterham and it is already tight. Depending on the scope of the package the Renault engines will cost 20-23 million euros.

So that the French would be the most expensive V6 turbo engine in the field. Mercedes is apparently responding to the economic downturn in the potential clientele and lowered the price for the basic package to less than 20 million. If you want more, you have to pay more. Extra dyno cost extra money. One can only speculate about the totals. You should move 17-19 Millionen.

Ferrari currently offers the cheapest package. Supposedly 15-17 Millionen. Sauber had already warned last year that you could not pay more than 15 million. In effect, the engine manufacturers have no choice. If they fix the prices so high that only a few are able to pay the bill, then they can development costs of the refinancing forget it.

McLaren gets its engines from 2015, probably in vain. Next year you drive according to contract even with Mercedes power. The team from Woking would have to decide until the end of April whether to continue also makes 2015 Mercedes. Insiders report that this period has elapsed. It is clear that McLaren from 2015 relies on Honda Power.

As a development partner McLaren will probably get the engines from the Far East for nothing. So it was between 1988 and 1992, as McLaren and Honda have worked together before. Free engines are an important argument, because the former champion team is not as a bed of roses, as in the past.

The Japanese have yet to deliver on the request of the FIA ​​at least a second team. The price for the Honda six-cylinder is not fixed yet. However, it should already give teams have expressed an interest in Honda engines. These include Sauber and Lotus.

Edited by V3TT3L, 10 May 2013 - 18:00.


#748 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 10 May 2013 - 17:46

http://www.auto-moto...da-7054748.html

According to...
Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener
#F1 @McLaren missed the deadline to sign the option for new Mercedes engine deal for 2015. So Honda it is.

This is a puzzler; nothing makes sense anymore.

#749 Nobody

Nobody
  • Member

  • 1,401 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 10 May 2013 - 18:09

Posted Image
Fixed  ;)
Respect Mr. Viola

#750 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 10 May 2013 - 18:28

http://www.auto-moto...da-7054748.html

According to...
Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener
#F1 @McLaren missed the deadline to sign the option for new Mercedes engine deal for 2015. So Honda it is.

Some Googled parts :drunk:

Now, four out of five customers deposited Renault in Paris, the news that you can not pay these prices. Only Red Bull has no money problem. But for Lotus, Williams, Toro Rosso, Caterham and it is already tight. Depending on the scope of the package the Renault engines will cost 20-23 million euros.

So that the French would be the most expensive V6 turbo engine in the field. Mercedes is apparently responding to the economic downturn in the potential clientele and lowered the price for the basic package to less than 20 million. If you want more, you have to pay more. Extra dyno cost extra money. One can only speculate about the totals. You should move 17-19 Millionen.

Ferrari currently offers the cheapest package. Supposedly 15-17 Millionen. Sauber had already warned last year that you could not pay more than 15 million. In effect, the engine manufacturers have no choice. If they fix the prices so high that only a few are able to pay the bill, then they can development costs of the refinancing forget it.

McLaren gets its engines from 2015, probably in vain. Next year you drive according to contract even with Mercedes power. The team from Woking would have to decide until the end of April whether to continue also makes 2015 Mercedes. Insiders report that this period has elapsed. It is clear that McLaren from 2015 relies on Honda Power.

As a development partner McLaren will probably get the engines from the Far East for nothing. So it was between 1988 and 1992, as McLaren and Honda have worked together before. Free engines are an important argument, because the former champion team is not as a bed of roses, as in the past.

The Japanese have yet to deliver on the request of the FIA ​​at least a second team. The price for the Honda six-cylinder is not fixed yet. However, it should already give teams have expressed an interest in Honda engines. These include Sauber and Lotus.

I see you added some text...

So, McLaren, after years of partnership with Mercedes, did not bother even to send them a short letter declining further business on basis they have another source, and let the deadline to pass - as a message? Honda meanwhile is developing an engine in the background without attending meetings between FiA and three engine suppliers? One would assume that with pending IPO, BE would be delirious with happiness to announce to the whole world, that another manufacturer came on board. The silence about this huge event, if true, is somewhat hard to understand.

Edited by Sakae, 10 May 2013 - 18:31.