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Honda open to F1 return / McLaren to use Honda engines from 2015 [merged]


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#1201 corf

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:42

Read closely

Since when does a customer design or make the engines???????????

RENAULT SPORT F1, customer Mecachrome-Aubigny, unveiled the future engine turbo 1.6-liter V6 that will land in 2014.


Renault is Mecachrome's customer not the other way round. Renault pay Mecachrome to build all their F1 engines. I originally chose my words carefully and didn't mention design before you mocked me for being clueless - When infact it is you that is lacking knowledge on the subject.

Pretty sure they also build all the GP2 engines, do you understand yet that mecachrome are far more than a company that rebuilt old Renault engines as you put it.

Also I thought there was a general feeling that the Honda was the worst engine because they failed at the politics of the reliability improvement bull that went on where pretty much everyone else improved theirs on the sly.

Edited by corf, 24 June 2013 - 07:01.


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#1202 2ms

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:22

Worst engine??? according to who?????

Skeptical about your ability to understand history

Nice perspective.
You're not a downer, just amusing.

Good luck


The worst engine in 2008 was either the Honda or Toyota. Do you really disagree?


#1203 Lights

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:49

The worst engine in 2008 was either the Honda or Toyota. Do you really disagree?

As I recall it, Honda's main problem in 07/08 was a malfunctioning windtunnel, not a weak engine.

#1204 pingu666

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:43

then they stuck merc numbers in simulator, and had a q3 capable car at every race...

#1205 molpid

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:32

As I recall it, Honda's main problem in 07/08 was a malfunctioning windtunnel, not a weak engine.


Drivability of the Honda engines were shitty according to Barrichello [from 2009, comparing it to the Merc engine]

#1206 muramasa

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:08

jeez Honda crap engine argument again? been done many times but here it is;

- RBR and STR run basically same chassis with different engine for 3 years, so that gives some perspective
- in 2008, it suggests Renault engine was inferior to Ferrari
- in 2009, it suggests how packaging, optimization and tailored development makes difference

- 2006-08, cumulative development was essential factor for competitiveness. Even Newey car wasnt competitive at that time. Honda 07 and 08 was completely new car from clean sheet abandoning all they've established previously, designed by Nakamoto.
- no idea about what F1 car designed by Nakamoto mean? think this; Mclaren designed by Haug, BMW designed by Theissen, Toyota or Ferrari designed by Marmorini.
- 2008/09 were by far the tightest field. top 15 drivers in Q2 covered within 1sec was norm. There's this "0.8sec boost by Merc" thing is totally absurd. 0.8sec would put that pathetic Earth car designed by Nakamoto on front row at many circuit. If Honda engine was that inferior and different engine gave such boost, it would make aero-primitive-looking Honda cars designed by Nakamoto as good as Ferrari/Mclaren.

- so, at the begining of 2009, Mclaren mustve been running Honda engine while Brawn run by Merc
- after engine freeze, there's effectively zero difference b/w works engine and customer engines. One Renault engine dominating while the other Renault running at the bottom. So, how can anyone be so confident that Honda was weak? what is the logic and evidence? and believe what Brawn (seriously, Ross Brawn!) said about Honda?

Why some people so naive and jump to an easy and cheap conclusion when it comes to Honda (of 00s), giving up all those thoughts and comparison that you usually do? I dont get it.

Drivability of the Honda engines were shitty according to Barrichello [from 2009, comparing it to the Merc engine]

I think he also said he could literally feel drag with 08 Honda car.
Drivability can only be compared fairly and accurately under the same chassis. I wonder RBR drivers would say "this engines drivability is shit" if they drive Caterham or Williams, Ferrari drivers drive Sauber, etc.


#1207 muramasa

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:47

For years effort was focused on gimmicks (sorry for that), like bogus concepts of hybrids just to cut on consumption,

recently I heard that first gen Prius still running healthy without changing any key component incl battery cell. Actually when looking into details of Prius, Aqua, etc, I can understand why it sells well...even me is tempted to buy one, for economical reason. :D

Unfortunately for Honda the fact that they are Japanese is likely to dictate how sales in China go more than any advertising campaign or the quality of their products.

Japan government and right wing's fault. They have absolutely no idea about "profit and mutual benefit and strategic relationship", instead obsessed with petty pride and face. :o

The same argument might be valid for gas powered cars, as many taxis have retrofitted their fleets from petrol to that, but is that a final solution? Probably not.

Not sure the gas u meant, but reminded me that some Asian countries have alot of gas-powered cars and buses whose engines are altered to run by gas, presumably LPG, yikes! coz gas is cheaper than petrol there of course. but such use is not good for engine, i heard. Also it has massive gas tank fitted in the luggage room at the back, just scary. There're alot of accident that gas tank explodes at filling station and by road accident and of course death/injury by that. Scary :well:

Now look at the biggest car markets in the world, the US and China. Both countries are currently highly dependent on imported oil and are keen to reduce consumption in order to reduce reliance on the Middle East and improve trade balances.

US still have ample choices for energy source, they have oil within and can afford to go for risky and unknown solution like shale gas. Also rather nearer to middle east and africa.

Europe too is in alot better position, it has North Sea oil field nearby, and Russia and Middle East, all these connected with pipe hence cheap. Also has diversified energy source - nuclear energy in France and East Europe, grid across Europe hence can afford to take hedge, such as venturing unknown renewable energies in Germany, Spain etc.

But Japan, it's bit too far to connect pipe and grid with Eurasia continent, and no oil/resource within its territory, no nothing. That's why nuclear power is essential for Japan and many countries want it, but almost all nuclear reactors are stopped now not directly due to nuclear disaster in 2011 earthquake but coz of incompetent regulator and media as well as silly protest and crazy people. It's costing Japan about extra 3 trilion yen ($30bil) (!) annually just for importing extra oil just for generating electricity. :|
Anyway so Japan has very limited option regarding energy/resource unlike EU and US, so it's natural and inevitable for Japanese automakers to go for alternatives, high tech and "gimmicky" possibilities like hybrid, rather than keep pursuing traditional method, in order to combat the disadvantageous circumstances and reduce resource dependency.

China is similar to Japan but their advantage is they can afford to play power game.

Honda have understood they need to spend R&D money on downsizing, direct-injection, turbocharging and energy recovery for their road cars. They will be spending this money regardless of any motorsport involvement.

This expense can be subsidised by marketing budgets by putting the lessons learnt into producing motorsport engines. So F1, SuperGT (and it's possible DTM/American DTM connection) and possibly LMP involvement is really making the best use of their resource, even if the motorsport programme provides only fringe benefits to core road car development.

yip that's basically what they said - expectation for f1 engine development and technology to feed back on roadcars.
but seems guys at R&D just want to do F1 :p
Marketing and technological transfer and adaptation is of course essential factor but that's other people's job, esp at Honda, i guess.


#1208 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 14:01

Hey Muramasa, isn't it clear that the truth isn't interesting on forums? Those who don't like Honda will always find a reason to bash the 00's. No matter how hard you try to talk about facts, as long as they're not interested, they'll skip it. I know I do that.

#1209 Sakae

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 14:32

recently I heard that first gen Prius still running healthy without changing any key component incl battery cell. Actually when looking into details of Prius, Aqua, etc, I can understand why it sells well...even me is tempted to buy one, for economical reason. :D

Absolutely, if it makes an economical sense to you for area where you live. I would be misunderstood if anyone thought that I am badmouthing Toyota's Prius, however it is my position, that hybrid cars generally are not all as successful as claimed, and many are nothing more than unsuccessful engineering projects which has ended up as advertising gimmicks. Final solution to energy crisis? I think not; just a bridge to future.

Not sure the gas u meant, but reminded me that some Asian countries have a lot of gas-powered cars and buses whose engines are altered to run by gas.

That's correct muramasa, but we have to differentiate between finite resources and renewal resources. Gas and oil are of course finite set of resources, and therefore any propulsion devices depending on one or the other resources will have limited future. For now it works, but there is no point to wait until new crisis shows up, is there? Gas powered devices are not new and they are common all over the globe. Electricity, hydrogen, nuclear power, and other areas suggest more stable future, no gimmicks, but we have to learn how to manage those technologies. Right now we have not done very good job.
I am not sure what Honda seeks in F1, but there is not much, if any, transfer of technology between F1 and road cars. There wasn't much for years, and we shall see what future holds. One thing F1 however does well, which is, it promotes brand-name recognition on global scale at relatively lower cost than through other venues.


#1210 sneaker91

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 19:38

Renault is Mecachrome's customer not the other way round. Renault pay Mecachrome to build all their F1 engines. I originally chose my words carefully and didn't mention design before you mocked me for being clueless - When infact it is you that is lacking knowledge on the subject.

Pretty sure they also build all the GP2 engines, do you understand yet that mecachrome are far more than a company that rebuilt old Renault engines as you put it.

Also I thought there was a general feeling that the Honda was the worst engine because they failed at the politics of the reliability improvement bull that went on where pretty much everyone else improved theirs on the sly.


Renault pay mechachrome to assemble motors. Don't get how anyone can say an engine assembler is in the same league as a constructor like Honda.



Which is my biggest gripe!!!!


You are very quick to point out Honda as having the worst V8 never mind that they had the best V10 before that formula finished.

Both points are really irrelevant because neither are turbos.

Last time F1 ran turbos you know who was dominant.

#1211 sneaker91

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 19:48

The worst engine in 2008 was either the Honda or Toyota. Do you really disagree?



Can you find me a credible respected motorsport article to support your statement?????

Honda had the most powerful V10 ever. Big deal, its not relevant to turbos.

How is your worst V8 engine comment relevant to the new turbo formula???????



Edited by sneaker91, 24 June 2013 - 20:02.


#1212 Owen

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:26

McLaren influence being felt?
http://www.autocar.c...aboola-internal

#1213 Kvothe

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:44

McLaren influence being felt?
http://www.autocar.c...aboola-internal


What do you mean? The date of that article is December 2008.

#1214 Coops3

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:46

Drivability of the Honda engines were shitty according to Barrichello [from 2009, comparing it to the Merc engine]


I remember him saying that too.

#1215 muramasa

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:41

Absolutely, if it makes an economical sense to you for area where you live. I would be misunderstood if anyone thought that I am badmouthing Toyota's Prius, however it is my position, that hybrid cars generally are not all as successful as claimed, and many are nothing more than unsuccessful engineering projects which has ended up as advertising gimmicks. Final solution to energy crisis? I think not; just a bridge to future.

i know and yea it's bridge. Still hybrid just fulfills its whole point - saving petrol. I vaguely thought hybrid isnt as economical if you count total cost - manufacturing and running cost such as maintainance and fuel consumption, but recent figure i saw shows it's quite excellent. Most cars last only 10-15 years anyway, and first gen Prius still runs healthy, then calculate everything and it's as economical as other non hybrid solutions, even considering higher manufacturing price and material cost.

That's correct muramasa, but we have to differentiate between finite resources and renewal resources. Gas and oil are of course finite set of resources, and therefore any propulsion devices depending on one or the other resources will have limited future. For now it works, but there is no point to wait until new crisis shows up, is there? Gas powered devices are not new and they are common all over the globe. Electricity, hydrogen, nuclear power, and other areas suggest more stable future, no gimmicks, but we have to learn how to manage those technologies. Right now we have not done very good job.

yea. ultimately we have to extract as much energy as possible from the sun or any sun related energy such as wind and water, but even they have its own disadvantage to environment.
I dont necessarily think energy recovery is gimmick coz cars need to be braked often anyway. Needless to say KERS is common technology for trains, cars need to do it internally but nothing is bad about the technology becoming commodity coz its better that way than wasted as heat anyway.
Think this way, it's not bad that many things are tried and different people trying different things.

I am not sure what Honda seeks in F1, but there is not much, if any, transfer of technology between F1 and road cars. There wasn't much for years, and we shall see what future holds. One thing F1 however does well, which is, it promotes brand-name recognition on global scale at relatively lower cost than through other venues.

Of course marketing is important aspect for them. They said one of their aims is to show and prove their technology in F1 and to have Honda's presence in the world. Also when they withdrew from F1 last time, they said they regard recyclability, sustainability and efficiency as essential and focus resources to developing new technology to achieve that. It's not excuse, they'd already started earth dream project, discontinued or massively scaled down sports cars, etc. Anyway after all it's management job to oversee everything, analyze situation and decides how much money to allocate where and what to do eventually. But at R&D level, they just want to do it and appreciate challenges. I think it's same at most companies.


#1216 ThomFi

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 13:11

As I recall it, Honda's main problem in 07/08 was a malfunctioning windtunnel, not a weak engine.


The engines of Renault and Honda were the weakest and that's why there was a big debate about engine equalisation at the end of 2008. FIA allowed Renault and Honda to modify their engines, but in the case of Honda, it didn't matter anymore, because they were out of F1 in 2009.

Teams mystified by engine unfreeze
Not all manufacturers are upset about the move to equalize engines, however. Honda Racing CEO Nick Fry told autosport.com that he welcomed the decision to help under-powered engines – of which Honda is believed to be one – get a performance increase.
"The FIA, since we have had the common ECU, clearly have a lot of information about the relative performance of the engines," he explained. "Although it was never intended with the frozen engine, there is clearly a disparity.
"So we are pleased moves will be made to pull it back together again. I am not an expert on what the FIA can see from the modules, but I am sure they have good information of the power characteristics. So to equalise the power curves is something that on the surface can be done."


Brawn wants engine performance equalised

Edited by ThomFi, 25 June 2013 - 13:21.


#1217 muramasa

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 17:45

Interesting phrase "in charge".

They have been actively working with Zytek recently on a number of projects. One of them being the "Honda CR-Z GT Hybrid".
<First-Win-For-Honda-Zytek-ERS-at-Sepang>

It would make more sense to me to continue that relationship (it appears to be working ok) than to go another way.

in that context, "in charge" meant it's Honda, not Mclaren that is responsible for development of the power unit (engine and ERS). Detailed design and layout work will of course be done according to Mclaren's specific request and input.
They confirmed whole development will be done by Honda in Japan, but yea suggested coorporation with outsiders on some components like MGU-H. They also said they cant reveal who yet, but surely could be Zytek.


:confused: I wonder how the process would be.

maybe i should elaborate more on that part. It was an answer to question about drivers and possibility of Japanese driver, the Q was abit dumb in the first place, but actually they merely stated their wish casually, more like "sure it would be nice if Japanese driver driving for us", not sth to be taken seriously.
What I thought was interesting is not about Japanese driver part, but that they implied they will have some say in driver selection, by saying "will talk with Mclaren and decide together (on drivers)", instead of "operational side incl driver selection is on Mclaren". Whether what they said really mean it or not I'm not sure, but that's what's been said anyway.
Personally I dont want them to meddle with that..Just leave that all to Mclaren.

What I would love to know is if Honda R/D had designed and built a F1-ish engine already once the new rules had come out and hence aren't starting from zero, or if they haven't done any prior work at all.

With their WTCC engine Honda R/D had designed an engine already that was in the spirit of the new FIA regulations but wasn't legal, it needed a little redesign before it could be raced legally but nothing significant. I'd be a little surprised if Honda R/D hadn't already tried to build an engine that was vaguely but not completely compliant with the 2014 F1 engine regs way before the company officially looked into entering F1

yea you never know what corporate R&Ds are doing. Esp Honda as in 90s theyve built an F1 car on their own several times just for "hobby". :lol: Not sure it's still free like that tho. Realistically all they did must be constructing blue print on simulator to greater degree or sth like that. but those who've been working on new Super Formula and SuperGT engine (which has some similar aspects to new F1 engine) might have been in a position to play with building improvised F1 spec engines anytime. We never know anyway.

When they're pressed on whether they've built and are working on singe cylinder block already, they said they're working on it on simulation now but somewhat evaded going into detail.

Will the engines be built in Japan too or built and maintained in the European base?

developed and manufactured in Japan.
European base for assembling and maintenance.


one more to add;
the last week's PC was done by Arai, left, director of Honda R&D and the current leader/supervisor of Honda's F1 project, and Sato, right, motorsport division chief at Honda Motor Co.

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#1218 V3TT3L

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 18:58

maybe i should elaborate more on that part. It was an answer to question about drivers and possibility of Japanese driver, the Q was abit dumb in the first place, but actually they merely stated their wish casually, more like "sure it would be nice if Japanese driver driving for us", not sth to be taken seriously.
What I thought was interesting is not about Japanese driver part, but that they implied they will have some say in driver selection, by saying "will talk with Mclaren and decide together (on drivers)", instead of "operational side incl driver selection is on Mclaren". Whether what they said really mean it or not I'm not sure, but that's what's been said anyway.
Personally I dont want them to meddle with that..Just leave that all to Mclaren.

:up:
Thank you!

I thought it was just one of these promises made at the sales moment and unfulfilled after the sign.
I wonder if - by contractual terms - Honda has the right to impose, veto, approval of one of their drivers.

Anyway we will see soon if McLaren intentions are true, bcs they have to add a Japanese driver to their Young Drivers Program or test drivers.

#1219 packapoo

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:48

:up:
Thank you!

I thought it was just one of these promises made at the sales moment and unfulfilled after the sign.
I wonder if - by contractual terms - Honda has the right to impose, veto, approval of one of their drivers.

Anyway we will see soon if McLaren intentions are true, bcs they have to add a Japanese driver to their Young Drivers Program or test drivers.


Have seen that question answered on another site.
I have to say that the poster answered this and many other questions on the McLaren /Honda relationship; not all of the answers were what I wanted to hear. :(

That was a week ago, since then all has gone quiet - I'm still watching and waiting for some verification.
I won't share it with you presently, as although the poster has shown great insight in many 'inner' areas this has just lain dormant. :confused:


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#1220 Talisman

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:35

yea you never know what corporate R&Ds are doing. Esp Honda as in 90s theyve built an F1 car on their own several times just for "hobby". :lol: Not sure it's still free like that tho.


I think it still is, judging from the WTCC engine. They developed a four cylinder engine according to the FIA universal engine regulations as soon as the rules came out with no intention of racing it until Honda's board decided to enter WTCC. In fact Honda's board didn't know about the existence of the engine until they asked Honda R/D whether they could develop one in time. Their principle seems to be that they may as well develop new race engines simply because they do not know what new technologies they might end up developing on the way.

the last week's PC was done by Arai, left, director of Honda R&D


I have to say if I was an engineer Arai probably has THE dream job. A huge budget and very little corporate oversight, effectively he can research and develop what he wants, even extending into areas like genetics, robotics and bioengineering. I'm very jealous....

#1221 10e10

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:38

Have seen that question answered on another site.
I have to say that the poster answered this and many other questions on the McLaren /Honda relationship; not all of the answers were what I wanted to hear. :(

That was a week ago, since then all has gone quiet - I'm still watching and waiting for some verification.
I won't share it with you presently, as although the poster has shown great insight in many 'inner' areas this has just lain dormant. :confused:


Can you quote those answers?

#1222 Anonymous

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 22:01



Amazing.

#1223 bogi

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 22:15



Amazing.





#1224 EthanM

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 22:30



Amazing.


random bit of trivia ... the NSX car they have in the hands film at 0:43 actually carries Senna's personal car's license plate BSS - 8888
http://blogs.estadao...927734375000000

nice small esoteric homage

#1225 10e10

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 22:52



Amazing.


:up:

#1226 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:14



Amazing.

On the one hand:

"Thank you Honda for making the CRF 450 sound correct. Hollywood loves to make 2stroke's sound like 4stroke's and vise versa."

On the other hand ;)

"Civic touring car is front wheel drive yet it did a burnout smoking its rear wheels."

Not a bad ad. For the Euro market I guess with the Euro civic and maybe even UK only by using the relatively obscure Team Dynamiks BTCC race car (instead of WTCC livery)?

It's quite similar in principle to the old advertisement though? Nothing they haven't done before?

#1227 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:14



Amazing.

On the one hand:

"Thank you Honda for making the CRF 450 sound correct. Hollywood loves to make 2stroke's sound like 4stroke's and vise versa."

On the other hand ;)

"Civic touring car is front wheel drive yet it did a burnout smoking its rear wheels."

Not a bad ad. For the Euro market I guess with the Euro civic and maybe even UK only by using the relatively obscure Team Dynamiks BTCC race car (instead of WTCC livery)?

It's quite similar in principle to the old advertisement though? Nothing they haven't done before?

#1228 One

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 13:42



Amazing.


OK, where is the SAUBER!!!!!

#1229 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:28

Historic V12s:

1.5L
3.0L

:up:

#1230 encircled

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:00

@F1Lite


Japanese engine manufacturer Honda has announced that it will base its operations in Milton Keynes upon its return to the sport in 2015.



#1231 Mc_Silver

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:09

@F1Lite


Japanese engine manufacturer Honda has announced that it will base its operations in Milton Keynes upon its return to the sport in 2015.


http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108717

It is good news I guess. It is important for Honda to have factory close to MTC.

#1232 Timstr11

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:21

Posted Image

#1233 One

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:00

Posted Image

A shed to house.... Trillion costs?

#1234 Clatter

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 13:51

A shed to house.... Trillion costs?


Don't judge a book by it's cover. Red Bulls base on an industrial estate doesn't look much better.


#1235 Talisman

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 15:50

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108717

It is good news I guess. It is important for Honda to have factory close to MTC.


But why not Bracknell, their previous centre? That's even closer to Woking and has significant Honda UK/Europe departments there already. Strange choice.

#1236 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 16:49

But why not Bracknell, their previous centre? That's even closer to Woking and has significant Honda UK/Europe departments there already. Strange choice.



Probably find Red Bull have a contract up their sleeve with Honda in 2015 to!

#1237 muramasa

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 17:17


is that Mugen factory pic a current one or the new one that will open this autumn and provide base for Honda F1 from mid next year?


But why not Bracknell, their previous centre? That's even closer to Woking and has significant Honda UK/Europe departments there already. Strange choice.

do HRD or any Honda's racing related facility in Bracknell still exist? When they withdrew from F1 in 2008 I remember hearing talks about what they gonna do about HRD, but since then i havent heard nothing. Did brief searching on the net now, but just couldnt find any relevant info. :well:


btw what's funny is Mugen means infinity. Suppose Honda provide customer engine to Lotus from 2016 and rebadge it as Mugen, and Lotus team renamed as Infinity Racing - Infinity Mugen :lol: also of course there's Infiniti Red Bull. :D


#1238 Talisman

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 17:22

It's quite similar in principle to the old advertisement though? Nothing they haven't done before?


I think its because Honda still face the same problem on Continental Europe. Most of the market don't differentiate between Far Eastern cars to the extent that a significant proportion aren't aware that Honda and Hyundai are different companies. To a large segment of this market Honda's technological prowess or sporting history is meaningless, nor the vast range of their products. Mazda had the same problem when it found that while the MX5 was well recognised throughout Europe. Few were aware of which company made it and in fact more people though the MX5 was built by Toyota than Mazda...

Thats why Honda ads that are aimed at Continental Europe keep featuring every Honda product going including Asimo and the jet.

#1239 Talisman

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 17:26

do HRD or any Honda's racing related facility in Bracknell still exist?


I haven't been there but I do know a few people who work there. Bracknell houses Honda UK and Europe with several departments including finance, HR and legal. Its a big base which is visible from the M4 and ties Swindon with Chiswick. There should be plenty of space there. Also Honda tends to use land it already owns for F1 like Chiswick in the 60s and Bracknell more recently. Mugen is a separate company so using their facilities when there are closer options available seems strange.

BTW I thought Mugen changed name to M-Tec after the recent scandal, have they changed back again?

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#1240 muramasa

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 18:59

I haven't been there but I do know a few people who work there. Bracknell houses Honda UK and Europe with several departments including finance, HR and legal. Its a big base which is visible from the M4 and ties Swindon with Chiswick. There should be plenty of space there. Also Honda tends to use land it already owns for F1 like Chiswick in the 60s and Bracknell more recently. Mugen is a separate company so using their facilities when there are closer options available seems strange.

BTW I thought Mugen changed name to M-Tec after the recent scandal, have they changed back again?

Thanks.
Maybe the Bracknell facility isnt doing racing anymore? According to today's announcement, Mugen's new facility in MK will be used for not just F1 but also Honda's other operations incl. WTCC. Maybe integrate all motorsport project into one, brand-new facility, specialized for motorsport, by Mugen that is racing entity, is more efficient?
true that Honda and Mugen is completely separate company (used to be in capital relationship in 90s), but they specialize Honda after all. I'd be surprised if Toyota or Nissan used Mugen to base for F1 :p Maybe Honda will start to use Mugen more actively for their motorsport activity?


yea M-Tec is formally a new company that was formed to inherit Mugen as a result of the scandal, but i think Mugen corp itself still exist either under M-tec or as a paper company. M-Tec holds naming or brand license of Mugen, sth like that. Dont know why have to do that, well i know it's because of scandal and legal thing and all that..anyway that's how it is.
I mentioned this before, but Mugen and Hirotoshi Honda were really hard done by the authority. :well:


#1241 10e10

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 19:02

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108717

It is good news I guess. It is important for Honda to have factory close to MTC.


This is getting interesting! Can't wait for it!

#1242 Amphicar

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 21:10

is that Mugen factory pic a current one or the new one that will open this autumn and provide base for Honda F1 from mid next year?


The photo above is the old Mugen factory in Northampton (very close to Cosworth).

Mugen's new factory will be in MK


#1243 One

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 22:54

SO are they (Honda) going to use the engine (block)next year in other series? Like sports car?

#1244 One

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:57

I just come up with yet anther stupid technical idea for 2014.

Is there a possibility to create pressure release valve on Turbo system so that the compression air can be released during the braking? This is not an exhaust, so could be vented in a good area, me thinks...

#1245 muramasa

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:23

:up:
Thank you!

I thought it was just one of these promises made at the sales moment and unfulfilled after the sign.
I wonder if - by contractual terms - Honda has the right to impose, veto, approval of one of their drivers.

Anyway we will see soon if McLaren intentions are true, bcs they have to add a Japanese driver to their Young Drivers Program or test drivers.

oh yeah at the pc (june 14th), they said they'd like to expand their young driver program to be connected to F1. Perhaps drivers of their program get chance to have simulator experience, and maybe to drive actual car for young driver testing at Mclaren.

Have seen that question answered on another site.
I have to say that the poster answered this and many other questions on the McLaren /Honda relationship; not all of the answers were what I wanted to hear. :(

That was a week ago, since then all has gone quiet - I'm still watching and waiting for some verification.
I won't share it with you presently, as although the poster has shown great insight in many 'inner' areas this has just lain dormant. :confused:

I seen quite a few wild guessing here and there but mostly bs. Many people incl so called f1 journos are saying stupid things but i'm only interested in facts.

as for the matter, that "we will decide together (on driver selection)" can be interpreted in any ways, in other words practically means nothing. The only practical thing they mentioned and explained specifically is the young driver program thing.


I think it still is, judging from the WTCC engine. They developed a four cylinder engine according to the FIA universal engine regulations as soon as the rules came out with no intention of racing it until Honda's board decided to enter WTCC. In fact Honda's board didn't know about the existence of the engine until they asked Honda R/D whether they could develop one in time. Their principle seems to be that they may as well develop new race engines simply because they do not know what new technologies they might end up developing on the way.

haha that's interesting. Honda R&D is separate company from Honda, of course financially dependent (also Honda Moter co gives them incentives according to contribution to sales or sth like that) but operation-wise quite independent with little interference from parent company, so that can well happen.

I have to say if I was an engineer Arai probably has THE dream job. A huge budget and very little corporate oversight, effectively he can research and develop what he wants, even extending into areas like genetics, robotics and bioengineering. I'm very jealous....

yea, good for him, and i could feel he was really speaking for other engineers and representing their passion, so good for them too.
Arai is currently a leader and spokesperson of F1 project, but at the pc last month they said they're not sure who will be the chief tech yet, and they will assess and appoint later on. Not sure if it's right to say he's "temporary" chief, but anyway atm Arai is the supervisor of f1 project under whom there're specialists of each department.


SO are they (Honda) going to use the engine (block)next year in other series? Like sports car?

atm no but they said there're some common things bw F1 engine and the new engine for Super Formula (formerly called F-Nippon) and SuperGT to be introduced next year, so some developments will be done together and shared b/w f1 team and super formula team within company.



#1246 Anonymous

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 14:52

Honda to fire up new F1 2015 engine in autumn this year

:smoking:

Edited by Anonymous, 12 July 2013 - 14:52.


#1247 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:59

I just come up with yet anther stupid technical idea for 2014.

Is there a possibility to create pressure release valve on Turbo system so that the compression air can be released during the braking? This is not an exhaust, so could be vented in a good area, me thinks...

No. How the heck would that be legal!?

#1248 Sakae

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 16:38

Honda to fire up new F1 2015 engine in autumn this year

:smoking:

So, there aren't any packaging concerns?

#1249 One

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 19:33

No. How the heck would that be legal!?


Guess because it is not illegal. :lol:

Release compressed air not from exhaust, but from charging side...

#1250 One

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 22:55

Any news on 2015 car development by James Allison for Honda in Tochigi?