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Honda open to F1 return / McLaren to use Honda engines from 2015 [merged]


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#1251 muramasa

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 23:18

Any news on 2015 car development by James Allison for Honda in Tochigi?

Recent rumor is that he will join Ferrari?

Also, Arai (current supervisor of Honda's F1 engine project) said they dont expect to conduct on-car testing in the foreseeable future atm, not only that, he hinted it can be 2015 to put and run a whole powerunit incl engine on an actual car, and currently not thinking about running it on "other cars (that do not participate actual GP races) bcs there's no point doing that. They expect simulator work and in-lab testing as main method of development.


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#1252 chumma

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:52

Recent rumor is that he will join Ferrari?

Also, Arai (current supervisor of Honda's F1 engine project) said they dont expect to conduct on-car testing in the foreseeable future atm, not only that, he hinted it can be 2015 to put and run a whole powerunit incl engine on an actual car, and currently not thinking about running it on "other cars (that do not participate actual GP races) bcs there's no point doing that. They expect simulator work and in-lab testing as main method of development.

this scares me

#1253 Sakae

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:36

this scares me

For an engine development that's actually quite normal these days. Total vehicle system testing would be something else again (I am not sold on absolutes).

#1254 Timstr11

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:03

this scares me

Why? It's modern technology and what all the other manufacturers are doing. How else should they do R&D?

#1255 One

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:41

this scares me


Source?

I heard that Honda is planning in Japan Harvey type's of small design team that run test car in Motegi the whole year 2014 or as soon as it is ready, the car is by Allison. sounds great actually, if this is true.

#1256 Clatter

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 18:13

this scares me


Why? Do you think the other manufacturers are doing it differently?


#1257 Der Pate

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:08

BTW, it came to my mind, if there could be a problem for McLaren having Mercedes-Turbos in 2014 and Honda-Turbos in 2015... (I´m not certain, if this was already discussed)

I guess Mercedes won´t share all of their know-how towards the turbos with McLaren in 2014, in fear that McLaren could take the know-how to Honda. So it could be a difficult relationship for both parties in 2014. As far as I remember a F1-season has never been easy for a team, when it was the last season with an engine-supplier...

And again 2015 could be a difficult year, as the Japanese have to learn in their first year with the new engine.

Is there anyone, who shares my thoughts, or am I totally wrong in this case?

#1258 Hyatt

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:15

Is there anyone, who shares my thoughts, or am I totally wrong in this case?


Mclaren for sure has 2 transition years ahead and hence valid excuses in case of bad results ...

#1259 Owen

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 15:49

McLaren and Honda consider ways to extend their Formula 1 tie-up into road cars
http://www.autocar.c...r-collaboration

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#1260 10e10

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 16:16

McLaren and Honda consider ways to extend their Formula 1 tie-up into road cars
http://www.autocar.c...r-collaboration


First I wold love to see some success on track, but an alliance off track would be good too.

#1261 Lemans

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 16:20

McLaren and Honda consider ways to extend their Formula 1 tie-up into road cars
http://www.autocar.c...r-collaboration


Let's hope this is handled properly. Brand dilution could be fatal for McLaren.



#1262 Owen

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:10

http://www.espn.co.u...tml?CMP=OTC-RSS

The future; sounds exciting :clap:

#1263 10e10

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 14:11

http://www.espn.co.u...tml?CMP=OTC-RSS

The future; sounds exciting :clap:


A 10 years contract? Wow, now that's long term contract.

#1264 lustigson

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 14:20

A 10 years contract? Wow, now that's long term contract.

It is, but compared to the 20 seasons that McLaren will then have competed with Mercedes, it's not that long.

The relative length of engine contracts over the past 15 years is amazing, really. In the mid-90s, mid-field teams would sometimes switch engine suppliers almost every season.

#1265 F1ultimate

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 15:10

A 10 year contract indicate that the two companies will have deeper ties than just F1 engines. The Mclaren group is huge and extend beyond F1, and likewise Honda develop jets and industrial equipment your average Accord driver is oblivious too. I can see opportunity for synergy in a quite a few areas.

#1266 10e10

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 17:18

It is, but compared to the 20 seasons that McLaren will then have competed with Mercedes, it's not that long.

The relative length of engine contracts over the past 15 years is amazing, really. In the mid-90s, mid-field teams would sometimes switch engine suppliers almost every season.


Yes, but Mercedes situation is different as they bought into McLaren, and I don't know if that will happen with Honda.

#1267 Clatter

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 17:52

It is, but compared to the 20 seasons that McLaren will then have competed with Mercedes, it's not that long.

The relative length of engine contracts over the past 15 years is amazing, really. In the mid-90s, mid-field teams would sometimes switch engine suppliers almost every season.


Did Mac ever have a contract of that length with Merc or just a series of shorter ones? I'd say a 10 year contract from the get go is a big deal.


#1268 lustigson

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 16:24

Yes, but Mercedes situation is different as they bought into McLaren, and I don't know if that will happen with Honda.

True.

#1269 Rasputin

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 18:15

I'm still certain that the Honda F1 project for 2015 is just an extension of PURE and that Gilles Simon has been in Japan for some time,
while Craig Pollock will soon materialize in a Honda-skirt. Remember that it was Pollock who bought Honda back to F1 the last time.

#1270 onewingedangel

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 20:25

I expect Honda have been trying to recruit any specialists available - whether from the aborted PURE project or Cosworth, Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari. If just to give their in-house engineers a leg up and avoid potential dead-end development paths.

Given their compressed development time, they need to seek any advantage possible.

#1271 Talisman

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 21:02

I'm still certain that the Honda F1 project for 2015 is just an extension of PURE and that Gilles Simon has been in Japan for some time,
while Craig Pollock will soon materialize in a Honda-skirt. Remember that it was Pollock who bought Honda back to F1 the last time.


Pollock's name is dirt at Honda after he tried to interfere in the takeover of BAR by BAT and their appointed engineering subcontractors prodrive, as well as I think interfering again in the sale of BAR to Honda.

If he still has anything to do with what's left of PURE it will guarantee Honda won't have anything to do with it.

#1272 WitnessX

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 07:32

I'm still certain that the Honda F1 project for 2015 is just an extension of PURE and that Gilles Simon has been in Japan for some time,
while Craig Pollock will soon materialize in a Honda-skirt. Remember that it was Pollock who bought Honda back to F1 the last time.

http://nonf1.com/201...t_of_motor.html

Arai: "It is true that Gilles Simon participated in the drafting of a new regulation on the motors in the FIA, it is true that we have received from him some information about the technology, but this does not mean that Gilles participates in the development of the engine. Designing a new motor engineers Honda, Simon is not involved in this process."

So it looks like they are using Simon as a consultant to interpret the FIA regulations. Pollock is a businessman, not an engineer. Honda already has a partnership agreement with McLaren.

#1273 muramasa

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:27

I'm still certain that the Honda F1 project for 2015 is just an extension of PURE and that Gilles Simon has been in Japan for some time,
while Craig Pollock will soon materialize in a Honda-skirt. Remember that it was Pollock who bought Honda back to F1 the last time.

no way Honda is an extension of PURE, for the same reason PURE was not Ferrari (Simon used to be Ferrari man), Toyota was not Ferrari and vice versa (Luca Marmolini), Ferrari car is not Mclaren (Fry), Merc car is not Ferrari (Costa), or Mclaren (Lowe), STR is not either Sauber or Force India (James Key), Ferrari will not be Lotus (Allison), etc.

it's exactly because PURE discontinued that Simon was available and Honda approached Simon. He was involved in actual rule making process, so knows about new rules to the finest details, so hiring him would give them sort of short-cut and head start. That for them was simply v reasonable choice. In terms of interpreting rules and getting informed of and undated with what's behind and beyond the set of written texts, there's no one like Simon.

Pollock? It's not that i'm following this very closely, but i've never seen his name mentioned related to Honda this time at all. Also it's not true that Pollock brought Honda back to F1 last time. Honda originally was preparing to come back as full manufacturer, but abandoned due to internal situations. BAR just happened to be there.


http://nonf1.com/201...t_of_motor.html

Arai: "It is true that Gilles Simon participated in the drafting of a new regulation on the motors in the FIA, it is true that we have received from him some information about the technology, but this does not mean that Gilles participates in the development of the engine. Designing a new motor engineers Honda, Simon is not involved in this process."

So it looks like they are using Simon as a consultant to interpret the FIA regulations. Pollock is a businessman, not an engineer. Honda already has a partnership agreement with McLaren.

yip that's what Arai said on 14th June PC in Japan. Simon is consultant giving advice for Honda, but isnt working inside Honda R&D (there's a rundown about the June PC several pages ago on this thread).

I was wondering about this "autosport on Arai" thing, coz there was nothing new in those articles, plus it was very rough&short and a month delay, but it seems Arai visited UK for Goodwood event last month, so probably they talked with Arai at that time.


#1274 Rasputin

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:42

http://nonf1.com/201...t_of_motor.html

Arai: "It is true that Gilles Simon participated in the drafting of a new regulation on the motors in the FIA, it is true that we have received from him some information about the technology, but this does not mean that Gilles participates in the development of the engine. Designing a new motor engineers Honda, Simon is not involved in this process."

So it looks like they are using Simon as a consultant to interpret the FIA regulations. Pollock is a businessman, not an engineer. Honda already has a partnership agreement with McLaren.

Honda would say exactly that if he indeed was involved, wouldn't they?

Pollock could also be the business-interface between Honda and McLaren, it might have been McLaren who financed PURE anyway.

#1275 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:43

Uhm. This is Honda. Not Hyundai.

#1276 Mrluke

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 13:06

I dont know I think having somebody who drafted the rules working for you is a handicap.

He will be working to what he wanted the rules to mean, you want somebody who will work to what the rules actually say.

#1277 ATM_Andy

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 14:25

http://www.espn.co.u...tml?CMP=OTC-RSS

The future; sounds exciting :clap:

Yup, and Hitachi being onboard too is very cool. MTC will be the next Nakatomi Plasa ;-)

#1278 V3TT3L

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 14:46

http://www.espn.co.u...tml?CMP=OTC-RSS

The future; sounds exciting :clap:

:well: Well... McLaren failed to sell this vision of success to Lewis.

#1279 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 14:59

Yup, and Hitachi being onboard too is very cool. MTC will be the next Nakatomi Plasa ;-)


Having now read the article there's actually no statement about the contract being 10 years, but that it puts the team in a good position for 'the next decade'

Also, when did Hitatchi come in? :p

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#1280 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 15:22

Hitachi McLaren-Mercedes / Honda?


I don't like it, hopefully they're just providing electrical equipment and money to the team.

Edited by JimmyTheFox, 11 August 2013 - 15:23.


#1281 V3TT3L

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 15:30

I just don't want to see 'NEC' as sponsor.

It would inspire jokes like 'Button is wearing that turtle-NEC' :p

#1282 BillBald

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 16:30

I just don't want to see 'NEC' as sponsor.

It would inspire jokes like 'Button is wearing that turtle-NEC' :p


I really don't imagine that anyone would want to make that joke. :)

#1283 Talisman

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 16:34

Yup, and Hitachi being onboard too is very cool. MTC will be the next Nakatomi Plasa ;-)


Which branch of Hitachi would that be?

#1284 onewingedangel

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:03

Hitachi were already working with McLaren Electronic Systems on a smart city project, and I can imagine Applied Technologies use of data analysis in the medical field would be of interest to them as well. Seems quite a logical B2B partnership, and that could be just scratching the surface.

#1285 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:05

Hitachi are involved in the Chevrolet Indycar engines. Since they are turbos, maybe there's an area of the new F1 engines that appeals to them.

#1286 Talisman

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 20:46

Hitachi are involved in the Chevrolet Indycar engines. Since they are turbos, maybe there's an area of the new F1 engines that appeals to them.


Interesting, I'd noticed lots of Hitachi ads in the economist for various services and thought it might be a b2b opportunity for them but what you've said figures. Hopefully with the Abenomics revival there might be a bit more Japanese cash heading in f1s direction.

#1287 muramasa

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 22:00

Hitachi McLaren-Mercedes / Honda?


I don't like it, hopefully they're just providing electrical equipment and money to the team .

wut
no

Hitachi will provide;

express trains to connect MTC with Milton Keynes and all the Southern England airports as part of UK's IEP program
Posted Image


nuclear reactor to help Mclaren's effort of carbon offsetting
Posted Image


CT scanner for the welfare of engineers and mechanics
Posted Image


and this fab twin arm to wreck their current sxxt car
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by muramasa, 11 August 2013 - 22:32.


#1288 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 22:05

I worked for Hitachi last year. Hated it. 7 days a week 10 hours a day for over a year for average wages. Now that I know McLaren are some kind of tech partners with them, they(McL) go on my "do not root for" list. A bunch of slave drivers that outfit. :down:

#1289 muramasa

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 22:05

I just don't want to see 'NEC' as sponsor.

It would inspire jokes like 'Button is wearing that turtle-NEC' :p

HITACHI inspires "the next", so it shud be ok then ;) :stoned:

Posted Image


#1290 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 04:23

Honda would say exactly that if he indeed was involved, wouldn't they?

Pollock could also be the business-interface between Honda and McLaren, it might have been McLaren who financed PURE anyway.



Sorry but I fail to see why they would need Pollock in the middle after all his failures. The success of the Mclaren Honda partnership speaks for itself and without this character being anywhere near.

So it would be wiser to keep Pollock out of it and avoid complications.

Edited by TakataDomeNSX, 17 August 2013 - 04:34.


#1291 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 04:24

I worked for Hitachi last year. Hated it. 7 days a week 10 hours a day for over a year for average wages. Now that I know McLaren are some kind of tech partners with them, they(McL) go on my "do not root for" list. A bunch of slave drivers that outfit. :down:


Thats the average Japanese company for you. And that includes Honda and Sony, and... and .... and ...

#1292 muramasa

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:33

Honda revealed today that they will publish the sound of their new F1 engine on their website on 18th Oct 2013.

The one under development of course.

 

http://www.honda.co....ng/news2013/13/

 

 

 

trivial news :p



#1293 Anonymous

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 13:19

Can't wait!



#1294 dau

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 14:20

God, it sounds horrible. Like the wiper motors on my 1950 2CV. What has become of F1?

 

Uhm. Too soon?



#1295 eronrules

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 15:06

God, it sounds horrible. Like the wiper motors on my 1950 2CV. What has become of F1?

 

Uhm. Too soon?

63 years too late, get rid of it soon and buy a Dacia Sandero ... the new peasant's car  :o



#1296 Owen

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:37

Honda wants 'good drivers, good team and good organisation' for 2015 McLaren return

http://www1.skysport...-mclaren-return



#1297 10e10

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 15:21

Honda wants 'good drivers, good team and good organisation' for 2015 McLaren return

http://www1.skysport...-mclaren-return

 

 

I hope Honda is ready to have a good start and that McLaren makes a good enough car, so they can give the drivers (whoever they are) a chance to win.



#1298 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 16:33

I hope Honda is ready to have a good start doesn't interfere with car development and leave mclaren in charge to designing the car and that McLaren makes a good enough car, so they can give the drivers (whoever they are) a chance to win.

 

 

corrected for you  :kiss:



#1299 10e10

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 18:38

corrected for you  :kiss:

 

I see what you did there. But we have to be honest, their 2005 and 2009 chassis wasn't that bad. But they should really focus on the engine, and how to better use with the car McLaren provides.



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#1300 DanardiF1

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 22:23

I see what you did there. But we have to be honest, their 2005 and 2009 chassis wasn't that bad. But they should really focus on the engine, and how to better use with the car McLaren provides.

 

I think the whole point of teaming up with McLaren and not just entering another works team is for exactly that reason. Honda's greatest successes in F1 have come via this kind of symbiotic relationship with it's partner teams. It's combining the two super-departments of chassis design from McLaren and engine/powertrain work by Honda that'll be both challenging and rewarding.


Edited by DanardiF1, 09 October 2013 - 22:24.