49 replies to this topic

[arttidesco]

I don't usually find much time to do TV but I stumbled across this nostalgic bit of fluff that was originally shown at 10 pm Wednesday on BBC4 using i Player just now.

Features the usual suspects from MG, Austin Healey, MGA, Triumph TR's, Spridgets the XK 120's and E-types, even a passing shot of Annie Soisbault poor cheetah on the back seat of a car. Contributions from Ann Riley, Stirling Moss and Norman Dewes to name a few.

Not rivetingly informative but none the less cheerfully nostalgic, with scenes from the Liege Rome Liege, Le Mans, Alpine Rally and various sprints autotests and test tracks not to mention the M1 when it was devoid of crash barriers.

Edited by arttidesco, 13 October 2012 - 10:29.

[Geoff E]

This one http://www.youtube.c...p;v=zYV1ceBBtJw

UK only http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01n8hl9

[arttidesco]

This one http://www.youtube.c...p;v=zYV1ceBBtJw

UK only http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01n8hl9

The very same

[Allan Lupton]

As I wrote last week, in another place, some of the young "motoring journalists" had not much idea of what they were talking about, conflating the MG TC with the significantly altered TD.

However I really did like Ann Riley enthusing over her days with Pat Moss and the "Big Healey" and Sir Stirling telling us about the MG record car he drove. Norman Dewis' tale of the E type and the newly opened M1 and his consequent discussion with Northampton's Chief Constable was fun - particularly when you remember that John Gott held that post then. . .

Even Quinton Willson, left over from the days when "Top Gear" was about cars, told a number of things well.

[kayemod]

Not rivetingly informative but non the less cheerfully nostalgic...

Like artti, I stumbled across this by chance, but found it quite enjoyable. Even my wife, who normally has little interest in this kind of thing watched most of it. However, her main interest seemed to be identifying the narrator, she must have run through the names of every English woman who has ever been on TV, trying to pinpoint the name. As an Archers addict, I knew all along of course, it was Debbie Aldridge, actress Tamsin Greig to the rest of you. I put her out of her very minor misery just before the credits appeared, wife that is of course, not Debbie/Tamsin.

[nicanary]

I also thought that it was perfectly watchable, compared to many poorly-researched documentaries. They didn't really bother with an analysis of the demise of the British sports=car, but possibly that was not the intention.

But for me , it was all about the clips from the Shell films on the Alpine Rally, including the infamous "handcart sequence". I wonder how many younger fans of modern rallying watched it, and gawped in awe at the roads they used to traverse, at nigh=on impossible averages. Gravel surface, single lane, no safety barriers, often with public traffic. The Golden Age of Rallying.

[arttidesco]

Norman Dewis' tale of the E type and the newly opened M1 and his consequent discussion with Northampton's Chief Constable was fun - particularly when you remember that John Gott held that post then. . .

Might that be the same John Gott who's name was given to the trophy the Big Healey's were racing for at Castle Combe last weekend ?

[Tim Murray]

Indubitably - John will always be associated with his famous Big Healey SMO 746, in which he died racing at Lydden in 1972. Nice bio here.

[arttidesco]

Indubitably - John will always be associated with his famous Big Healey SMO 746, in which he died racing at Lydden in 1972. Nice bio here.

Thanks Tim !

[Mistron]

The BBC are trying to start 'em young too. My youngest was watching this yesterday:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01nd46t

A pre school programme with period footage of '60s rallying. 'Grandpa Logan' is of course Logan Morrison. I particularly like the fact he seems to be showing his son's Seat a clean pair of heels round Knockhillin the imp. presumably the Seat had traction issues on the oil slick..........

[JMH]

Anorak Fact for a Saturday morning:

At 3:20 they show a pre-war clip of J2005 (JB522) being driven by A. Ness, who was editor of the "MaGazine" at the time. He trialed a fair bit, but alas, the cars' whereabouts have been unknown since 1935.

JH

[Allan Lupton]

Indubitably - John will always be associated with his famous Big Healey SMO 746, in which he died racing at Lydden in 1972. Nice bio here.

Yes, I should try to remember that TNF includes young people when making allusions to the well-known of the past.
The rev-counter story in that obit may be true but John did use it when he was actually prosecuted for speeding in the Healey in St Albans - he should have known better than to speed in his old patch as he was at Hatfield (in the Hertfordshire Constabulary) before becoming Chief in Northamptonshire. His regular rally co-driver in the MGA was Chris Tooley who also worked in Hatfield.

[Stephen W]

Nice to see that the credits included the Woolbridge MC members who helped out at Wiscombe Park where the 'modern' footage was shot. It was also nice to see the suicidal pheasants roaming the hill!

[Bloggsworth]

No mention of Lotus; Morgan, the oldest of those still making cars; TVR or any others other than the dismissive "Anyone could get a glass fibre body and stich a Ford side-valve..."

[kayemod]

No mention of Lotus; Morgan, the oldest of those still making cars; TVR or any others other than the dismissive "Anyone could get a glass fibre body and stich a Ford side-valve..."

True, but given that they were really only covering fairly mass-produced stuff, I thought that it was a decent effort with no glaring mistakes.

It hasn't been mentioned on TNF, so I'm assuming that either no-one has seen it, or maybe they were just too shocked to comment, but Channel 5 are currently running a series on restoring classic cars, the latest effort messing about with a Ford Mustang is on tonight. The series is almost indescribably awful, bad beyond belief, in fact an insult to viewers' intelligence. In the first prog they ruined an innocent E-Type, and in the second they massacred an old 911. Last week was just plain silly, they "restored" a hopelessly rotten MGB in just a couple of weeks, buying new parts like chrome bumpers for about one tenth of the proper prices, and using at least two different cars in the sequence, a B owning friend reckons probably three. They clearly used a new monocoque from BL Heritage £1000 at least, and claimed to have fitted chrome bumpers to a rubber-bumpered car, when of course the suspension and front and rear metalwork on those two are significantly different. The funniest bit was where one worker did an all-nighter, and claimed to have removed a "factory fitted" Webasto roof (surely those were only ever dealer-fitted?) and welded a perfectly shaped sheet of steel over the hole with no trace of a join, absolutely ludicrous. Then at the end, an "expert valuer" walked around the car, no test drive or even looking underneath, and wrote a frankly silly valuation down and handed it to the two incompetents responsible, singularly charmless pair with zero acting or presenting ability, a 'Cock-er-nee' from central casting with awful false teeth, and a clueless Canadian, neither of whom seemed to do much apart from argue with each other. Have a look at as much of this drivel as you can stand, as the Cockney character might well say, "It's all a complete load of tom-tit !".

[nicanary]

The latter supposition - too shocked to comment. I missed the first episode, but was so astonished by the vitriol on other website forums that I felt compelled to watch the next ones. I just cannot fathom out who the intended market audience is supposed to be. It wouldn't interest the layman enough for him to tune in, and is too banal for the enthusiast.

By all accounts a large number of viewers have contacted Channel 5 and the production team, and voiced their discontent. I doubt there will be a second series. If members of TNF like black humour, it can be looked upon as a comedy show- remember, the screen of your set is fragile. and the dog is maybe more nervous than you realised.

[RTH]

The whole thing is too ghastly for words, incorrect, very misleading the language and behaviour of the main characters is vile in the extreme.
A complete waste of valuable airtime , where a proper programme on the subject could have been made. They clearly take the viewing public for idiots.

[Derwent Motorsport]

The C5 series is dreadful, an insult to the viewer. The fact that there is such deception in it makes it question the credibility of the producers.

[kayemod]

The C5 series is dreadful, an insult to the viewer. The fact that there is such deception in it makes it question the credibility of the producers.

It's so awful, it made me feel sorry for the programme sponsor, insurance brokers Adrian Flux, who surely can't have known what they were getting into. They've wasted their money, this crap won't do them any good at all.

[RogerFrench]

I don't usually find much time to do TV but I stumbled across this nostalgic bit of fluff that was originally shown at 10 pm Wednesday on BBC4 using i Player just now.

Features the usual suspects from MG, Austin Healey, MGA, Triumph TR's, Spridgets the XK 120's and E-types, even a passing shot of Annie Soisbault poor cheetah on the back seat of a car. Contributions from Ann Riley, Stirling Moss and Norman Dewes to name a few.

Not rivetingly informative but none the less cheerfully nostalgic, with scenes from the Liege Rome Liege, Le Mans, Alpine Rally and various sprints autotests and test tracks not to mention the M1 when it was devoid of crash barriers.

I have to say I loved it. Even though it didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know, it did bring back that time, and I'm not ashamed to have had a lump in the throat during the bit about Pat Moss. Proper fare for a Nostalgia Forum, I say.

[arttidesco]

"The team find a bargain-basement example, but as they struggle to bring this racer back to glory they discover suspicious welds that could mean it is a write-off."

Shouldn't the team have done this with either an online HPI or DVLA check ?

Needless to say I passed on watching something that is obviously aimed at a species with no more intelligence than a tea spoon full of plankton.

Edited by arttidesco, 15 October 2012 - 16:09.

[nicanary]

I meant to say that somewhere along the line I got the impression that the "valuer" was associated with RM Auctions. Surely not? Why would they allow themselves to be mentioned on this drivel?

[Peter Morley]

I meant to say that somewhere along the line I got the impression that the "valuer" was associated with RM Auctions. Surely not? Why would they allow themselves to be mentioned on this drivel?

I caught the end of one programme and the 'world renowned valuer' wrote them a valuation on RM headed paper.
What impressed me was that he could inspect a Porsche 911 without even getting his suit dirty, unlike supposed 911 experts I've come across.
I was amazed how high the valuation was given how unoriginal and uninteresting the 911 was, but his inspection was so cursory the car was presumably in amazing condition.

[nicanary]

I caught the end of one programme and the 'world renowned valuer' wrote them a valuation on RM headed paper.
What impressed me was that he could inspect a Porsche 911 without even getting his suit dirty, unlike supposed 911 experts I've come across.
I was amazed how high the valuation was given how unoriginal and uninteresting the 911 was, but his inspection was so cursory the car was presumably in amazing condition.

But he does use a clipboard - this is very important. It means that his authority cannot be questioned, like the "scientists" in toothpaste or detergent commercials. Ticks are also of huge import.He ticks a lot.

I hope he's getting paid an inordinate amount of cash for his expert opinion, because he'll be the laughing stock of the classic car auction world for some time to come.

[arttidesco]

I caught the end of one programme and the 'world renowned valuer' wrote them a valuation on RM headed paper.

I've never purchased or sold a car or anything else at auction, but I suspect a valuation on headed paper is worth about as much as the paper it is written on.

[Allan Lupton]

Continuing the digression about programmes about mechanical "restoration", TV producers seem mesmerised by time so everything has to be done against the clock for them. No time for sitting on a wheel contemplating a job before starting it, but headlong into doing it wrongly.
There was a series some years ago fronted by a pop-singer (I was told) which "restored" various mechanical devices in no time flat with much major work done off-camera and a few trivial (and often downright wrong) things shown in great detail. A traction engine boiler inspection shown which was no such thing and a magneto for a Meteor tank engine which was gutted and fitted with electonic innards are just two things that contaminate my memory.

[BRG]

Channel 5's Classic Car Rescue makes Wheeler Dealers (which it apes) look positively true to life. At least Edd China is a real mechanical wizard - for those who don't know, he was responsible for the various bits of motorised furniture which entertained us a few years back.

I watched the first couple of CCRs with a sceptical eye, but the MGB episode was too much. When the rear axle 'fell out' (who had cut through the spring leaves, I wonder?), I tuned out. As for the choreographed rows and walk-outs.....

Edited by BRG, 15 October 2012 - 18:27.

[D-Type]

I haven't seen the programme but I don't think it will figure in my "Things you regret not doing" list.

Edited by D-Type, 15 October 2012 - 19:17.

[h4887]

I wondered if this programme could possibly be worse than 'American Hot Rod' and 'American Chopper'. To my delight it was worse, far worse! In fact, it's difficult to imagine how it could be made worse than it is, which is quite an achievement...

[Glengavel]

It hasn't been mentioned on TNF, so I'm assuming that either no-one has seen it, or maybe they were just too shocked to comment, but Channel 5 are currently running a series on restoring classic cars, the latest effort messing about with a Ford Mustang is on tonight. The series is almost indescribably awful, bad beyond belief, in fact an insult to viewers' intelligence. In the first prog they ruined an innocent E-Type, and in the second they massacred an old 911.

I would have e-mailed a complaint to C5 but I was afraid I might accidentally enter the prize draw and win one of the cars.

That cheap after-market sunroof on the E-Type...the Mockney idiot hacking away at a 911 rotor arm with a penknife...

[Paul Rochdale]

I wondered if this programme could possibly be worse than 'American Hot Rod' and 'American Chopper'. To my delight it was worse, far worse! In fact, it's difficult to imagine how it could be made worse than it is, which is quite an achievement...

Quite, and it also compared to that drivel about the British-run garage in Malaga or somewhere Spanish. When the refurbished V8 engine backfired in a cloud of smoke, I thought 'timing out' which it turned out to be. No need for hystionics. All these programmes feature a shaven headed, tatooed loudmouth who instantly throws a hizzyfit when anything goes wrong, before stomping off out of the nearest door. Personally I would have persevered with the original seized engine with lots of WD40 and patience. The Canadian gave up far too easily. Still it's a bit of 'wallpaper for the eyes'.

[kayemod]

I wondered if this programme could possibly be worse than 'American Hot Rod' and 'American Chopper'. To my delight it was worse, far worse! In fact, it's difficult to imagine how it could be made worse than it is, which is quite an achievement...

You have a point, but it needs some qualification. They may both have been scripted reality TV, but in American Hot Rod, and to a lesser extent American Chopper, there was nothing fake about most of the craftsmanship in evidence. I haven't seen much of Chopper, as I'm not into motorbikes, and couldn't stand any of the characters, but if you could ignore the contrived situations and some of the acting, much of Hot Rod was classy stuff, the panelbeating, fabrication, painting and finishing etc was impressive work, even if they did leave out much of the boring stuff and make it all look far simpler than it really is. I've seen some of Boyd Coddington's work, and believe me, it fair takes your breath away, while the vehicles themselves are pretty outlandish, the workmanship is every bit the equal of most of the restoration stuff I've seen in the UK. And one of my most heartfelt desires in life is to possess a moustache the equal of Al's.

Classic Car Rescue on the other hand, is utter crap on every level.

[Peter Morley]

I've never purchased or sold a car or anything else at auction, but I suspect a valuation on headed paper is worth about as much as the paper it is written on.

That might be rather over generous when you consider how much some of the auction houses charge for their catalogues!

I have bought a couple of things at auction (parts rather than whole cars, nothing expensive) since auctions are traditionally a way of getting rid of stuff rather than getting the best price (e.g. opposite way round to daytime tv shows, traditionally dealers buy at auction and sell to the public) and they can be quite cheap, except for star lots where they manage to find two people or one person and a wall who are prepared to let the world know how much they paid.

As for expert reports, I've got a copy of a Maserati expert's report saying that Fangio won a race in this particular Maserati and it is true that he won that particular race but he was driving an Alfa Romeo at the time...

[arttidesco]

As for expert reports, I've got a copy of a Maserati expert's report saying that Fangio won a race in this particular Maserati and it is true that he won that particular race but he was driving an Alfa Romeo at the time...

....

Hope nobody was taken in by that expert report

[FredF1]

You have a point, but it needs some qualification. They may both have been scripted reality TV, but in American Hot Rod, and to a lesser extent American Chopper, there was nothing fake about most of the craftsmanship in evidence. I haven't seen much of Chopper, as I'm not into motorbikes, and couldn't stand any of the characters, but if you could ignore the contrived situations and some of the acting, much of Hot Rod was classy stuff, the panelbeating, fabrication, painting and finishing etc was impressive work, even if they did leave out much of the boring stuff and make it all look far simpler than it really is. I've seen some of Boyd Coddington's work, and believe me, it fair takes your breath away, while the vehicles themselves are pretty outlandish, the workmanship is every bit the equal of most of the restoration stuff I've seen in the UK. And one of my most heartfelt desires in life is to possess a moustache the equal of Al's.

Classic Car Rescue on the other hand, is utter crap on every level.

The problem with American Hot Rod was the fake 'dramatic tension'. In one episode, Boyd completely thrashed a mechanics work "just because" and in another took a cutting saw to a chassis for no reason. Why do all the US-based car restoring shows have to have such a sham of a "We must finish this by yesterday or the world will end" nonsense? The new Fast & Loud series, which has nice examples of American cars, has this curse as well.

I don't get Channel 5 so haven't seen this travesty but I note that one Bernie Fineman is involved. He was also in charge of this heap of steaming ordure.

[HiRich]

No mention of Lotus; Morgan, the oldest of those still making cars; TVR or any others other than the dismissive "Anyone could get a glass fibre body and stich a Ford side-valve..."

The blurb did make it clear that it was about the mass-produced sports cars, but it does beg a sister piece on the garagistes. And then a primer on the British motorcycle industry for those of us who weren't there. And then one on how we built a post-War motor racing industry...

[AAGR]

The blurb did make it clear that it was about the mass-produced sports cars, but it does beg a sister piece on the garagistes. And then a primer on the British motorcycle industry for those of us who weren't there. And then one on how we built a post-War motor racing industry...

But first (to modify Mrs Beeton) snare your producer ....

AAGR

[Sharman]

Quite, and it also compared to that drivel about the British-run garage in Malaga or somewhere Spanish. When the refurbished V8 engine backfired in a cloud of smoke, I thought 'timing out' which it turned out to be. No need for hystionics. All these programmes feature a shaven headed, tatooed loudmouth who instantly throws a hizzyfit when anything goes wrong, before stomping off out of the nearest door. Personally I would have persevered with the original seized engine with lots of WD40 and patience. The Canadian gave up far too easily. Still it's a bit of 'wallpaper for the eyes'.

I didn't see it but my favourite for seized engines is brake fluid not WD40.

[RTH]

................ but in American Hot Rod, and to a lesser extent American Chopper, there was nothing fake about most of the craftsmanship in evidence. I haven't seen much of Chopper, as I'm not into motorbikes, and couldn't stand any of the characters, but if you could ignore the contrived situations and some of the acting, much of Hot Rod was classy stuff, the panelbeating, fabrication, painting and finishing etc was impressive work, even if they did leave out much of the boring stuff and make it all look far simpler than it really is. I've seen some of Boyd Coddington's work, and believe me, it fair takes your breath away, while the vehicles themselves are pretty outlandish, the workmanship is every bit the equal of most of the restoration stuff I've seen in the UK. And one of my most heartfelt desires in life is to possess a moustache the equal of Al's.

Classic Car Rescue on the other hand, is utter crap on every level.

Spot on Rob.

I think Boyd died some years back soon after an operation.
http://en.wikipedia....Boyd_Coddington

Edited by RTH, 16 October 2012 - 16:31.

[kayemod]

Spot on Rob.

So you're an admirer of big Al's facial hair as well?

[RTH]

Quite extraordinary ! It completely covered his mouth.

He really was a fine craftsman.

The foreman a chap called Duane was so unpleasant all the time to everyone he would not have lasted 5 minutes in a British workshop.

[Peter Morley]

....

Hope nobody was taken in by that expert report

No one had spotted that, but they were rather more bothered by the description of how much of the chassis had been replaced which I think was information provided by the owner rather than the expert's investigation!

[garyfrogeye]

I had this email back from the producer of the Timeshift programe today after emailing with some positive comments

Dear Gary

We were all so pleased to receive your email and were genuinely pleased to hear that you had enjoyed the film. It’s often very difficult on somewhat specialist subjects – like sports cars – to make something that will have general appeal whilst still properly serving those who are truly knowledgeable. It’s fantastic to think we went some way to achieving this.

The programme did very well (the best in the series so far) in terms of ratings. It will be repeated several more times so I hope all those interested get to see it.

Thanks again for all your kind words – it meant a lot to us.

Kind regards

William

William Naylor

Series Producer

‘Timeshift’

[Mal9444]

I had this email back from the producer of the Timeshift programe today after emailing with some positive comments...

Any word yet from the producer of the C5 series, in response to your email?

Or perhaps just send him a link to this thread.

[Mal9444]

By the way... no one has mentioned the excellent contribution (to the Timeshift programme) of our very own Simon Taylor.

Edited by Mal9444, 26 October 2012 - 05:33.

[Hamish Robson]

By the way... no one has mentioned the excellent contribution (to the Timeshift programme) of our very own Simon Taylor.

Or AAGR.

[Pullman99]

The Timeshift programme has, quite rightly, received the plaudits it deserves. Truly great TV!

C5's Classic Car Rescue is yet another in a series of truly bad ones. Actually "bad" is too mild. Bernie Fineman seems to have had a track record of these awful productions. Bangla Bangers and Chop Shop being two others. Says it all really.

We have a world class restoration industry in the UK; part of an historic vehicle world that's worth an estimated £4bn to this country's economy. That's what we need to persuade the programme makers to take a serious look at. Not two dodgy geezers destroying E Types and a potentially even more dodgy valuer plucking figures out of the ether. Maybe someone associated with RM or Adrian Flux could comment

Edited by Pullman99, 26 October 2012 - 11:56.

[RTH]

I think that programme disgraces the whole of the UK retail motor industry and reinforces prejudices in the public mind about short cut practices from 50 years ago. I think it has done enormous harm.
The finances mentioned are ludicrous, they claim restoration cost of perhaps just a quarter of the obvious expense required in the real world and then come up with valuations perhaps as much as double it real worth. This gives highly misleading expectations to anyone out there thinking they can make a fast buck at a time of financial pressure. not responsible television in my opinion.

[arttidesco]

I think that programme disgraces the whole of the UK retail motor industry and reinforces prejudices in the public mind about short cut practices from 50 years ago. I think it has done enormous harm.
The finances mentioned are ludicrous, they claim restoration cost of perhaps just a quarter of the obvious expense required in the real world and then come up with valuations perhaps as much as double it real worth. This gives highly misleading expectations to anyone out there thinking they can make a fast buck at a time of financial pressure. not responsible television in my opinion.

[kayemod]

I think that programme disgraces the whole of the UK retail motor industry and reinforces prejudices in the public mind about short cut practices from 50 years ago. I think it has done enormous harm.
The finances mentioned are ludicrous, they claim restoration cost of perhaps just a quarter of the obvious expense required in the real world and then come up with valuations perhaps as much as double it real worth. This gives highly misleading expectations to anyone out there thinking they can make a fast buck at a time of financial pressure. not responsible television in my opinion.

All absolutely true, and what bothers me most about this awful series is the sheer dishonesty, it's not even as if they were turning out something decent at the end. The quality of the welding has been mentioned, as has much of the other stuff, but the paintwork on the finished vehicles is appalling, you can actually see runs and orange peel on the screen. I saw the last few minutes of the recent Cadillac 'restoration', and the panel gaps! The shut bonnet was at least half an inch proud of the surrounding bodywork on one side at the rear, something not mentioned by their tame 'expert valuer'. At least they didn't try to fit a pop-up sunroof into the thing.