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Is Vettel worthy of the 3 WDC Title?


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#151 Lights

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:49

China 09 for an example. Brawn was quite scary fast in the first half, we all know.

But then again, it rained, and both Red Bulls finished like a minute in front of the Brawns. Don't see where the 'great victory' for Vettel comes in TBH. I think he has driven more impressive races than any of his 2009 ones.

EDIT: Also, what the guy above me says.

Edited by Lights, 13 October 2012 - 21:50.


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#152 George Costanza

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:50

I can remember way more spectacular race wins by Mansell than Prost - whose only really impressive race-win, that i can spontaneously remember, was in Mexico 1990. But i think not many would rate Mansell higher than Prost...

So this aspect doesn´t prove much imho (even tough i think nonetheless that ALO is better and HAM at least more talented).


Note some of the races I wrote had weather-changing or rain conditions, which shows Schu's skill more clearly than the rest.

#153 pacwest

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:50

As expected, that earns a LOL. 'Finger frustration' is a common syndrome nowadays, all you can do, is get used to it. It is frustrating, yes, but it is a trademark. It is not a birdie,even if you feel it is. :lol:



As I explained, it goes beyond the finger. He wins with arrogance and loses with impunity. The finger is just an external, non-verbal indicator of his arrogance. I presume you are a fan of his by your replies based on the "deal with it" angle.

#154 weareracing

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:50

NOBODY flukes 3 WDC :smoking:

#155 ali_M

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:51

He's resoundingly deserving of the 3 championships if he manages to win this year. He managed to beat all the other more apparently deserving ones. He wins consistently and the others don't. His car then is assumed to be better than that of the others. We too often forget how often these brilliant others have failed to take maximum opportunity in the past. Vettel, OTOH, seems to do just that and with devastating effect. He therefore makes it look easy.

Yes.... Alonso got two DNF's, but so did Vettel. I don't know where De La Rosa is coming from really.... Oh... I guess from the POV of being a Spaniard. Whoever wins this championship surely deserves it despite the ridiculous hype surrounding Alonso's lead in the championship to date. In fact, the hype has been so ridiculous that there are some so caught up in it that they will now think it unjust if Vettel comes along and wins the championship.

As to his personality and boyish style, you can't have it all, now can you. The sour grapists will always find a hook to hang their hats on. The nice guys will always be left behind. Ask Senna himself about that one!! :)

To those who think him undeserving, I'd just love if he beat Michael's record. 7 in a trot!

I'm certainly no German, but when I keep reading the negative remarks, I can't help but revel in the poetic justice of Michael and now Vettel coming along and dominating.

Edited by ali_M, 13 October 2012 - 21:52.


#156 Alarcon

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:51

At the beginning of the year the RB8 was not the best car on the grid, it was very hit and miss. It has only been the last 3 races that it has had some consistancy in speed.

Race-pace wise Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren have been trading it between them with an occasional upset.

Seb has had some reliabilty issues like everyone else.

Seb has only had one season in F1 with a bullet-proof fast and reliable car and that was last year. And he made full advantage of it like any WDC should.

Not every point he has scored since he came into F1 has been in a Newey designed car. ;)

Look at the all time greats, how did they win? I mean, Fangio is regarded as an all time great. True he raced in a very dangerous era, but he still always had the best car, and if his wasn't working then his teammate would give up his car for him? Does he not deserve his titles?

What about when they used to have the spare car? Or even when drivers would swap cars with their teammates if the set-up worked on their teammates cars. Are any of those drivers not deserving of their WDC's either.

Many people look at it with rose tinted glasses.

The teams are closer in speed, the equality is closer than yesteryear. So does that make him more undeserving than his predecessors?



:up: :up: :up:

#157 George Costanza

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:52

But then again, it rained, and both Red Bulls finished like a minute in front of the Brawns. Don't see where the 'great victory' for Vettel comes in TBH. I think he has driven more impressive races than any of his 2009 ones.

EDIT: Also, what the guy above me says.



You are correct on that. But we would have to take the car in account here as well. But I agree that SV drove amazingly quick last year much like Schu in 2002 himself.

#158 LiJu914

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:55

Note some of the races I wrote had weather-changing or rain conditions, which shows Schu's skill more clearly than the rest.


I wasn´t talking about Schumacher but whether "being spectacular" is a clear indicator of a driver being at a higher level in general compared to others.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 October 2012 - 21:57.


#159 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:58

I can remember way more spectacular race wins by Mansell than Prost - whose only really impressive race-win, that i can spontaneously remember, was in Mexico 1990. But i think not many would rate Mansell higher than Prost...

So this aspect doesn´t prove much imho (even tough i think nonetheless that ALO is better and HAM at least more talented).


Talent in F1 is a seriously misinterpreted concept. Usually, it means driving abilities for average fans. That is only true in spec series. If driving abilities would automatically lead to WDC's, Jean Alesi would be king of the hill, JV, Montoya, etc, ditto. It takes more to be a multiple WDC since Niki Lauda.

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#160 JimiKart

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:58

Fingerboy... to my mind he's a poor winner and an even worse loser which makes him hard to watch, personally I think Newey is the sole reason for his success and I doubt without Newey if he'd even have 1 title.

#161 Alarcon

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:59

As I explained, it goes beyond the finger. He wins with arrogance and loses with impunity. The finger is just an external, non-verbal indicator of his arrogance. I presume you are a fan of his by your replies based on the "deal with it" angle.



You really think Seb is arrogant ???

I can´t believe it.

http://www.guardian....dian-grand-prix

http://www.the-atlan...h...e&Itemid=55

http://www.caravanti...036;1365001.htm

Well I´ve a lot of examples... but you are the first one I read saying he is arrogant. Maybe you know him much better than anybody,,,


#162 PinkZepStones

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:59

A lot of people either aren't getting it or aren't reading properly

I started the OP making a massive point of saying I believe Vettel deserves as well as every other wdc te titles he has, my point is is he worth 3 to his name, when countless drivers have seemingly proved much more and earnt less. I personally want to see Vettel in any car but with an established top flight teammate, and personally I believe he'd get eaten as a teammate of Alonso or Hamilton, both of whom together only have 1 more title (for a few months anyway!)

That's the question I'm asking, Vettel is worthy of a wdc yes I agree but three on the trot? Not as far as I'm concerned tbh.

#163 scheivlak

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:00

This is pretty much true. Although, Vettel had some great victories in 2009 aganist the Brawn.

But something is missing; like Schumacher of Spain 1996 or Spa 1997 or Monaco 97, Hungary 98, European GP 2000 or Japan 2000 of that quality or Spa 2002, San Marino 02 also... Senna had a great number of those. Alonso has some himself, Hungary 2006 (before he retired) or Imola 05, Japan 08, Brazil 05.

Brazil 2005 :confused:

#164 scheivlak

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:01

That's the question I'm asking, Vettel is worthy of a wdc yes I agree but three on the trot? Not as far as I'm concerned tbh.

Yes, we really know that by now :wave:

It's still utter nonsense.

#165 LiJu914

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:02

Talent in F1 is a seriously misinterpreted concept. Usually, it means driving abilities for average fans. That is only true in spec series. If driving abilities would automatically lead to WDC's, Jean Alesi would be king of the hill, JV, Montoya, etc, ditto. It takes more to be a multiple WDC since Niki Lauda.


Well obviously i have a different definition of "talent", but as this is really not an important issue, i´ll leave it at that.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 October 2012 - 22:02.


#166 George Costanza

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:03

Brazil 2005 :confused:



I messed up that one... Sorry. I should have said this: British GP 06. Alonso was wonderful there.

#167 Alarcon

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:06

But then again, it rained, and both Red Bulls finished like a minute in front of the Brawns. Don't see where the 'great victory' for Vettel comes in TBH. I think he has driven more impressive races than any of his 2009 ones.

EDIT: Also, what the guy above me says.



2009 China was impressive and remind me Schumi at BCN at some point.

Silverstone 2009 was also a driving lesson from him.

#168 showtime

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:09

Webber is a A class team mate.

Alonso had the best car in 2005, 2006 and 2007. And Alonso never faced a WDC team mate if you prefer... the first time he faced a fast team mate he cracked under pressure against him (2007). Since then he needed even Flavio order to crash his team mate on the wall... then nothing proved. But anyone has any doubt about Alonso´s value isn´t ???

Well this season has been the most equal season ever, if you fear Vettel or you can´t accept he can be able to win a WDC with exhaust, mapping or whatever the excuses you made last season... it´s your problem.

It´s not a question to opinion, it´s a fact.


About Webber :lol:

In 2005 and 2006 the Renault (looking at the whole season) was more or less at the same level of the main rival, it depended mostly on the circuit and the tyres. In any case there was a extremely dominant car like the 2010 or 2011 RBR. In 2007 a lot of things happen and even in that situation he came only 1 point short of the title. Hating Alonso as you do, your opinion about that season was expected but downplaying Hamilton just because he wasn't WDC yet is laughable. Then he had mediocre cars in Renault and the third best car in Ferrari, despite this he was able ton win races a fight for the 2010 WDC until the last race. That's why most of the people do not doubt Alonso's value.
If you had read what I wrote before you would know I don't fear Vettel at all (my point precisely) and I understand that the F1 game is played with men and machines so I would never consider him less worthy of the WDC title because he had the best car. Another matter is to imply that he's the best driver just because he has won those titles. If you can't understand that with such advantage on machinery a driver could won without being the best you have a problem. And I'm not saying Vettel isn't, maybe he is. Fans should enjoy the fact he had those cars to drive because other drivers didn't have the chance. Don't be so eager to try to prove that Vettel is the best by showing his stats, unfortunately (for him and you) he eventually will have to deal with worst cars and will be able to show how good he is. I don't get why you get so defensive, I'm not doubting Vettel skills, but when you car goes like a train on rails those supposed great skills are not even necessary.

#169 pacwest

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:10

You really think Seb is arrogant ???

I can´t believe it.

http://www.guardian....dian-grand-prix

http://www.the-atlan...h...e&Itemid=55

http://www.caravanti...036;1365001.htm

Well I´ve a lot of examples... but you are the first one I read saying he is arrogant. Maybe you know him much better than anybody,,,



I just listen to what he says in public and how he acts in public. He's an extremely good racer who is worthy of his titles. His age is showing perhaps. As he ages he will be more diplomatic maybe and possibly more understanding of how he got to where he is. I do not see him as down to earth at all when he opens his mouth. Maybe that's the Canadian in me.

Understand that I live in a part of the world where there is zero F1 press. I see no SKY, ITV or BBC video post/pre race etc. All I see is the race feed, the press conference and his interviews. I pay zero attention to propaganda or marketing. I simply watch the race and follow a few pundits on twitter.

My assessment of him is shared by my wife who speaks fluent German and lived there for years. She dislikes his attitude and we are very different when it comes to our F1 tastes.

#170 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:11

Talking about his car's superiority this year is nonsense... Wake up, this has been the most tight season ever, and you dare talking shit like "it's the car"? Then there hasn't ever been a worthy champion, because this season's field has been closer than ever.

#171 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:11

Well obviously i have a different definition of "talent", but as this is really not an important issue, i´ll leave it at that.

That is sad, because it IS an important issue. Talent is a given attribute for app. 70% of the grid. That is what makes for instance LH's move to Merc an interesting scenario.


#172 jj2728

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:13

Of course he's worthy enough to be a 3 times WDC. Going by the logic of the OP, one must be inclined to think that a driver worthy enough to win a World Championship must do so in an inferior car. Why? The car and driver are part and parcel of the entire package. Jim Clark won many a race by more than 20 seconds ahead of his nearest rival, yet few, if any, would call his victories hollow. The same could be said for Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Senna, Schumacher etc., etc. Would people call their victories hollow? Some may say he's been lucky. Well, luck whether we like it or not will always play a part to some degree and it should be remembered that for a driver to be in position to clinch the WDC he must be in position in some way or another throughout the entire season to capitalize on others' mistakes and/or misfortunes in order to seize on that. Worthy? Yes, absolutely.

#173 showtime

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:15

Talking about his car's superiority this year is nonsense... Wake up, this has been the most tight season ever, and you dare talking shit like "it's the car"? Then there hasn't ever been a worthy champion, because this season's field has been closer than ever.

There are some races left, let's wait till then to judge the superiority, or not, of his car. Besides the WDC has been close despite the cars not being so close at all.

#174 DrF

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:18

A lot of people either aren't getting it or aren't reading properly

I started the OP making a massive point of saying I believe Vettel deserves as well as every other wdc te titles he has, my point is is he worth 3 to his name, when countless drivers have seemingly proved much more and earnt less. I personally want to see Vettel in any car but with an established top flight teammate, and personally I believe he'd get eaten as a teammate of Alonso or Hamilton, both of whom together only have 1 more title (for a few months anyway!)

That's the question I'm asking, Vettel is worthy of a wdc yes I agree but three on the trot? Not as far as I'm concerned tbh.

Answer is still YES, YES and Y E S

Webber is as established and top flight a team mate as Alonso and Hamilton. Put him in a McLaren or Ferrari and he'll fight for the title just as he did in 2010.

For the record, neither Alonso nor Hamilton have won the WDC when they had competitive team mates (each other). Kimi beat them both.

Vettel's earned and deserves these and all future titles. Why is that so hard To accept?

Edited by DrF, 13 October 2012 - 22:22.


#175 George Costanza

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:19

Regarding inferior cars that won championships in the past 20 years, which is the "worst" car to win it? Or who won the most with an inferior car?

Edited by George Costanza, 13 October 2012 - 22:20.


#176 as65p

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:20

Answer is still YES, YES and Y E S

Webber is as established and top flight a team mate as Alonso and Hamilton. Put him in a McLaren or Ferrari and he'll fight for the title just as he did in 2010.

Vettel's earned and deserves these and all future titles. Why is that so hard To accept?


Vettel, like every other driver, will have deserved everything he wins. The bit about future titles is complete BS, though.

#177 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:21

Answer is still YES, YES and Y E S

Webber is as established and top flight a team mate as Alonso and Hamilton. Put him in a McLaren or Ferrari and he'll fight for the title just as he did in 2010.

Vettel's earned and deserves these and all future titles. Why is that so hard To accept?


It seems because of his finger.


#178 LiJu914

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:21

A lot of people either aren't getting it or aren't reading properly

I started the OP making a massive point of saying I believe Vettel deserves as well as every other wdc te titles he has, my point is is he worth 3 to his name, when countless drivers have seemingly proved much more and earnt less. I personally want to see Vettel in any car but with an established top flight teammate, and personally I believe he'd get eaten as a teammate of Alonso or Hamilton, both of whom together only have 1 more title (for a few months anyway!)

That's the question I'm asking, Vettel is worthy of a wdc yes I agree but three on the trot? Not as far as I'm concerned tbh.



So, basically you wanted to know whether members rate Vettel as high or higher than Alonso or Hamilton.

Thank god you opened a thread for that. It´s not like that this has been discussed 12304924059 times already...

Edited by LiJu914, 13 October 2012 - 22:22.


#179 showtime

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:22

I just listen to what he says in public and how he acts in public. He's an extremely good racer who is worthy of his titles. His age is showing perhaps. As he ages he will be more diplomatic maybe and possibly more understanding of how he got to where he is. I do not see him as down to earth at all when he opens his mouth. Maybe that's the Canadian in me.

Understand that I live in a part of the world where there is zero F1 press. I see no SKY, ITV or BBC video post/pre race etc. All I see is the race feed, the press conference and his interviews. I pay zero attention to propaganda or marketing. I simply watch the race and follow a few pundits on twitter.

My assessment of him is shared by my wife who speaks fluent German and lived there for years. She dislikes his attitude and we are very different when it comes to our F1 tastes.


Hamilton is also considered arrogant by some, Alonso... well Alonso is the devil :lol: , Schumacher also arrogant... I'm sure you get where I'm going. Don't get me wrong, each time Vettel wins I turn off the TV as soon as he is starting to get out of the car and I hate how he plays the nice kid car but when he is not the first his face looks like the one of a reprimanded child. But if he wasn't so successful it wouldn't be so annoying and we wouldn't care.

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#180 prty

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:29

ok, so now let's discuss how worthy Mansell's title was, or Hakkinen's, or Prost's third, or Damon's or Villeneuve's.;)


We can discuss it no problem: they hadn't a special value either.

#181 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:29

There are some races left, let's wait till then to judge the superiority, or not, of his car. Besides the WDC has been close despite the cars not being so close at all.


The cars haven't been close? What are you on? Look at the number of gp winners. Look at the number of people that could have won races this year. Look at the ridiculous margins separating ALL the stablished teams during qualifying sessions. Look at the ups and downs EVERY single team on the grid has gone through.

This is the closest f1 has been to a spec series in all my time as a fan, you must be a real hater to play the "it's the car" card, because this is the year when it has mattered the least for a long, long time.

#182 showtime

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:38

The cars haven't been close? What are you on? Look at the number of gp winners. Look at the number of people that could have won races this year. Look at the ridiculous margins separating ALL the stablished teams during qualifying sessions. Look at the ups and downs EVERY single team on the grid has gone through.

This is the closest f1 has been to a spec series in all my time as a fan, you must be a real hater to play the "it's the car" card, because this is the year when it has mattered the least for a long, long time.


I'm not playing any card, in fact waiting until the end to judge the performance of the cars during the season seems more reasonable than doing it now with 5 races to go. But if you can't wait I would like you to show me the average distance between the pole and the first Ferrari. Then take a look at the average grid position by cars and tell me if they are so close.

Edited by showtime, 13 October 2012 - 22:39.


#183 Mandzipop

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:41

Of course he's worthy enough to be a 3 times WDC. Going by the logic of the OP, one must be inclined to think that a driver worthy enough to win a World Championship must do so in an inferior car. Why? The car and driver are part and parcel of the entire package. Jim Clark won many a race by more than 20 seconds ahead of his nearest rival, yet few, if any, would call his victories hollow. The same could be said for Fangio, Stewart, Prost, Senna, Schumacher etc., etc. Would people call their victories hollow? Some may say he's been lucky. Well, luck whether we like it or not will always play a part to some degree and it should be remembered that for a driver to be in position to clinch the WDC he must be in position in some way or another throughout the entire season to capitalize on others' mistakes and/or misfortunes in order to seize on that. Worthy? Yes, absolutely.


Valid point.

What makes a driver deserving of a WDC?

Just going by the BBC list, the majority of the 3x WDC drivers had the option of either a spare car or hopping into their teammates car. Plus the majority of the time they had the best car in the first place.

This thread is about if and a big if, Seb winning his 3rd WDC.

If you look at how other drivers have acheived a triple WDC, does that devalue what Seb has done? Especially in the nature he has one it and with the competition against him.

When was the last time a driver won his 3rd WDC without being in the best and most reliable car, without a t-car or in fact not being able to jump into their own teammates car if it suited them better?

This thread, rightly or wrongly has become a driver vs driver thread.

However the title of the thread is "Is Vettel worthy of the 3 WDC Title?"

Please discuss.

#184 Hanzo

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:42

I understand OP point of view, and I agree in certain aspects, but titles are not everything. IF he wins a third title, it will be a great achievement, something extraordinary. But you could think that a young, talented, german driver with three titles under his belt at his age would be considered the Lord of F1, the wonderboy, the biggest thing to happen to F1. And he is not. Mainly for some of the reasons you said in your post.
Even with three titles, he would not be considered the undisputed number 1 F1 driver. And that tells you something. I don't know exactly what, but tells you something.
There are still two other drivers at the same level or even better than him. They are more exciting to watch, in my opinion and with all due respect to him and his fans.

Edit: I think it is a little bit early for this thread, anyway

Edited by Hanzo, 13 October 2012 - 22:47.


#185 Cool Beans

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:43

If he wins 3 he has deserved them. But I value his 2, possible 3 championships as equal to one normal WDC.
Personally I would hand the drivers' championship trophies straight to Newey, Vettel is just the guy who's lucky to drive those cars.

#186 Arska

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:44

If Vettel wins he, ofc, deservs it completely, much like Alonso if he does it. When a guy wins by a 20s margin he is actually owning the rest of the field, not the opposite...


I guess that means that Mansell's dominating victories in 1992 were because he simply was the best driver. Obviously ignore whenever he backed off before the end of the race.

#187 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:47

I'm not playing any card, in fact waiting until the end to judge the performance of the cars during the season seems more reasonable that doing it now with 5 races to go. But if you can't wait I would like you to show me the average distance between the pole and the first Ferrari. Then take a look at the average grid position by cars and tell me if they are so close.


Pole has been done by all sorts of people. The RB guys have been out of q3 sometimes too. Mclaren has been doing poles and also missing q3. Lotus has qualified on front row and also missing q3 sessions. Williams too. EVERY team has a big average gap with pole sitters, because everyone has been all over the place. Again, this season has been less than ever about the cars, so stop crying.

And why on earth you use qualifying as a measure, exactly the season where qualifying performance has been less critical ever? Agenda much?

Edited by Skinnyguy, 13 October 2012 - 22:51.


#188 Lights

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:53

2009 China was impressive and remind me Schumi at BCN at some point.

Silverstone 2009 was also a driving lesson from him.

So these were driving lessons in how to beat Mark Webber by some 13-odd seconds? I again don't see what's that impressive about driving the fastest car from pole to victory with a winless teammate as your rear gunner and nobody else in sight at the finish line.

#189 Cult

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:54

Vettel is a fantastic driver and deserves the accomplishments he's had up to this point.

The truth of the matter is there are still two doubts, 1) can he beat a real top class teammate (Alonso, Hamilton etc.) and 2) can he win when a car isn't gifted with a ridiculously high level of downforce. Don't get me wrong, he could rule out those criticisms in the future. He's definitely got rid of the crash kid/can't overtake label with some superb fights through the field after pitstops, I've been impressed.

I wish Sebastian luck but I don't think he could beat Alonso and Hamilton as teammates which kind of makes the does he deserve it question difficult. It's fair to see him AND Red Bull deserve to win the drivers championship should it happen.

#190 showtime

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:56

Pole has been done by all sorts of people. The RB guys have been out of q3 sometimes too. Mclaren has been doing poles and also missing q3. Lotus has qualified on front row and also missing q3 sessions. Williams too. EVERY team has a big average gap with pole sitters, because everyone has been all over the place. Again, this season has been less than ever about the cars, so stop crying.

And why on earth you use qualifying as a measure, exactly the season where qualifying performance has been less critical ever? Agenda much?


How do you propose to rate how fast a car is?

#191 Juan Kerr

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 22:57

Vettel is a fantastic driver and deserves the accomplishments he's had up to this point.

The truth of the matter is there are still two doubts, 1) can he beat a real top class teammate (Alonso, Hamilton etc.) and 2) can he win when a car isn't gifted with a ridiculously high level of downforce. Don't get me wrong, he could rule out those criticisms in the future. He's definitely got rid of the crash kid/can't overtake label with some superb fights through the field after pitstops, I've been impressed.

I wish Sebastian luck but I don't think he could beat Alonso and Hamilton as teammates which kind of makes the does he deserve it question difficult. It's fair to see him AND Red Bull deserve to win the drivers championship should it happen.

This is a very very accurate post to be fair.

#192 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:05

How do you propose to rate how fast a car is?


There's no perfect equation, but judging the cars mainly on their qualifying pace this season of them all is beyond any logic. Who would say Mercedes was a better car than Lotus in the first races, only cos it was starting near the front? No one is that shortsighted.

I'd say the best car right now is the one able to go from lights to flag faster in a time trial, with a small correction for qualifying pace to cover the time lost in traffic (less than ever before).

#193 jj2728

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:11

Vettel is a fantastic driver and deserves the accomplishments he's had up to this point.

The truth of the matter is there are still two doubts, 1) can he beat a real top class teammate (Alonso, Hamilton etc.)


But, he does have a top class teammate in Webber. Those that think otherwise are IMHO wrong. One does not have to be a WDC to be a top class teammate.

#194 Mandzipop

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:18

I'm going to nip this in the bud.

This is not a driver vs driver thread. This is a thread about whether Seb will deserve the WDC if he wins it. It is not a Lewis vs Alonso 2007 thread. Please stay on topic.

#195 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:18

But, he does have a top class teammate in Webber. Those that think otherwise are IMHO wrong. One does not have to be a WDC to be a top class teammate.


+1

Who is on pole tomorrow? Funny post, ain't it? :lol:

#196 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:21

Another funny thing is, nobody friggin' bashes Newey for designing a car for his two drivers that is constantly capable of fighting for the titles?

#197 showtime

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:23

But, he does have a top class teammate in Webber. Those that think otherwise are IMHO wrong. One does not have to be a WDC to be a top class teammate.


I don't think people don't rate Webber as a top class driver because he hasn't won a WDC. Let's just say his performance are... erratic.

#198 Szoelloe

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:28

I don't think people don't rate Webber as a top class driver because he hasn't won a WDC. Let's just say his performance are... erratic.


Webber was considered to be WDC material before he had the 'honor' of having this kid for a teammate. Do you think he would still be so erratic if had for instance Barrichello as a teammate?


#199 showtime

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:31

Webber was considered to be WDC material before he had the 'honor' of having this kid for a teammate. Do you think he would still be so erratic if had for instance Barrichello as a teammate?


By whom? :confused: . He has been this way before Vettel, nothing to do with teammates.


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#200 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 23:35

By whom? :confused: . He has been this way before Vettel, nothing to do with teammates.


Every single person in the paddock during his Jaguar years. Most of people during his Williams years. Not that much people now ;)