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Hulkenberg and Gutierrez expected to be confirmed at Sauber for 2013


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:20

BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/19940929

Nico Hulkenberg is to leave Force India and join Sauber next year.

And Mexican Esteban Gutierrez, the team's reserve driver, is tipped as a partner for the German, which would leave Kamui Kobayashi without a seat.

Mexican Sergio Perez, Kobayashi's team-mate this year, is joining McLaren to replace Mercedes-bound Lewis Hamilton.

Ex-Toro Rosso drivers Sebastian Buemi and Jaime Alguersuari are vying with former Force India driver Adrian Sutil to be Hulkenberg's replacement.

If he loses the Sauber seat, Kobayashi also has a chance to go to Force India but is likely to have to find some sponsorship to secure the drive.

Sauber have not yet officially confirmed Hulkenberg but the deal is understood already to be done.


To add to that, Ted Kravitz said on Sky that it was 'possible' that Sauber could drop Kobayashi immediately and draft in Gutierrez for the last four races. After what happened in Japan I do feel a bit sorry for Kobayashi, but at the same time his performance today and being outperformed by Perez has done him no favours really.

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#2 King Six

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:26

Amazing that after his podium everyone was singing his praises but a mistake today and everyone is on his case. Where was all this when Grosjean was being a mess. He was given like 6, 7, 8 chances before people started talking about him... I feel sorry for Kamui.

I'd love to know what the real deal is behind all this. It's rather strange for Hulkenberg to move to Sauber from Force India. It's a rather lateral move. And for Sauber to pick Hulk over Kamui, I don't think there's THAT much of a difference. And then Sauber to put faith in Esteban over Kamui, probably monetary related though.

I think there's more to it than people saying that Hulk is simply fleeing the sinking ship of Force India...

Edited by King Six, 14 October 2012 - 11:27.


#3 D.M.N.

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:33

Amazing that after his podium everyone was singing his praises but a mistake today and everyone is on his case. Where was all this when Grosjean was being a mess. He was given like 6, 7, 8 chances before people started talking about him... I feel sorry for Kamui.

I'd love to know what the real deal is behind all this. It's rather strange for Hulkenberg to move to Sauber from Force India. It's a rather lateral move. And for Sauber to pick Hulk over Kamui, I don't think there's THAT much of a difference. And then Sauber to put faith in Esteban over Kamui, probably monetary related though.

I think there's more to it than people saying that Hulk is simply fleeing the sinking ship of Force India...

If Force India were in significant financial trouble then I would have thought that di Resta would be looking for a get out card as well. Considering Williams dropped Hulkenberg at the end of 2010, I don't think he brings any significant financial backing, at least for him to be considered over Kobayashi.

It's an odd one for someone to move from one midfield team to another, unless Force India have basically told Hulkenberg that they're getting Bianchi, so you need to move elsewhere.

#4 tarmac

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:35

Kobayashi has been Sauber for three seasons. Time for change

#5 silencer

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:37

I think; For sauber to choose esteban over kamui is nothing more than just to make sure TELMEX is happy

if rumours about Kamui being dump by sauber is true... It's such a pity for Kamui... hope he can find a seat for next season.

#6 F1ultimate

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:38

Huklenberg is Germanand if he does well sponsorship money will come Saubers way unlike with KK who everyone know is a capable driver but yet isn't finding sponsors. I don't blame the Hulk from leaving. Sauber is a respected team while Force Indias future is uncertain. Sitting pretty in the Swiss team and doing will until seats open at Ferrari and Redbull at the end of 2013 is a good move.

#7 Don_Humpador

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:45

but at the same time his performance today and being outperformed by Perez has done him no favours really.

Thing is, he hasn't exactly been dominated by Perez or anything, I mean he's only 16 points behind this "wonderkid" Perez who is being touted as a WDC or whatever, with 4 races to go. It's conceivable - if perhaps unlikely - that Kamui could end up with a very similar points total to Perez, or even ahead.

Also, Kamui is still ahead in the qualifying battle. There really hasn't been as much between them as some people think.

But the need for sponsor's cash, and the stigma attached to Japanese drivers, seems to be enough for people to call for his head.

I can understand Hulkenberg, but Gutierrez has to be a sponsor's decision.

If Jenson Button, Mark Webber and the 'old guard' think these current F1 drivers are 'idiots' or 'nutcases', just wait to see Gutierrez and Bianchi next year.. better the devil you know..

Edited by Don_Humpador, 14 October 2012 - 11:46.


#8 King Six

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:48

I have heard that Bianchi is abit of a ...handful, haven't read or seen much of Esteban though. I hope Force India choose Jaime over Sutil or Bianchi...even though I would say Sutil is the best driver out of everyone, including Kobayashi/Hulkenberg...

Edited by King Six, 14 October 2012 - 11:48.


#9 Jimisgod

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:52

Black day for the sport.

I've already found the next young F1 driver.

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#10 wj_gibson

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:04

Black day for the sport.

I've already found the next young F1 driver.

Posted Image


I'd give Guttierez at least one more year in GP2, he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory since GP3.

But if it's a financial decision, it's a financial decision. Perhaps if the teams got more of the prize money we wouldn't be having these sorts of decisions...

#11 King Six

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:11

But if it's a financial decision, it's a financial decision. Perhaps if the teams got more of the prize money we wouldn't be having these sorts of decisions...

Very true, it's an abomination that most of the money goes towards CVC/Bernie.

#12 DS27

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:12

I hope Hulk has a view to getting in the Ferrari, after a year. Otherwise, it is a very sideways move, though as others say, it's a more secure team.

Still think Mac should have taken Hulk over Perez. He has comfortable outshone Diresta and burst his bubble.

#13 Bloggsworth

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:12

Is Guttierez the bloke who was often shown the way by the rookie Calado?

#14 glorius&victorius

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:14

BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/19940929



To add to that, Ted Kravitz said on Sky that it was 'possible' that Sauber could drop Kobayashi immediately and draft in Gutierrez for the last four races. After what happened in Japan I do feel a bit sorry for Kobayashi, but at the same time his performance today and being outperformed by Perez has done him no favours really.


love it: F1 is a tough world. I´d like to see more toughness in the paddock.... some other drivers should also be sacked

#15 wj_gibson

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:16

love it: F1 is a tough world. I´d like to see more toughness in the paddock.... some other drivers should also be sacked


Yeah, but only if there is good ground to believe their replacements will do a better job. My feeling is that if Guttierz was half as good as was he's been made out to be he should have walked this year's GP2 title given the modest quality of the field.

#16 fisssssi

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:16

Worst possible timing for Kamui I'm afraid. With only 1 week between races, his great drive last week is quickly forgotton.

I'd be very happy for him to end up in Force India though.

#17 wj_gibson

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:18

Worst possible timing for Kamui I'm afraid. With only 1 week between races, his great drive last week is quickly forgotton.

I'd be very happy for him to end up in Force India though.


Assuming such a thing as Force India even exists come March.

#18 GX390

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:19

Is Guttierez the bloke who was often shown the way by the rookie Calado?


Yes.

#19 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:36

I'm hoping Force India go for Buemi or Alguersuari then. Would be the easy way if they go for Sutil again. Would be surprised if Sutil wants to go back, especially after the way they ditched him last year when he was superior to Di Resta.

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#20 seahawk

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:45

Better going back to the team that ditched you, than having no seat in F1.

#21 FenderJaguar

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:48

It's not like Kobayashi's mistakes are gonna go away if he gets to try the Sauber for a 4th season. They both need a change.

#22 jals99

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:05

Petrov and Alguersuari still in talks with Sauber, Guttierez is not signed yet
http://translate.goo...s_12101363.html

#23 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:10

It's not like Kobayashi's mistakes are gonna go away if he gets to try the Sauber for a 4th season. They both need a change.

what are his "mistakes"? Which mistakes are they exactly?


Perez also hit another car today, just that he got away with it

#24 sniper80

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:10

Who is Guttierez? :confused:

#25 nomi

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:14

Seriously, would Guttierez be getting a serious look into F1 right now if there was no "Slim" factor?
Is he a standout in GP2?

#26 Lennat

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:17

It makes sense for the Hulk. It's pretty much 50/50 right now which car of the two that will be better next year as I see it, but Sauber is a safer bet right now in other ways, and there's also the Ferrari connection.

#27 August

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:19

IIRC Sauber needs to have one Mexican to get the Mexican sponsor money. So if that's the case, and they don't want to give up that money, they need to hire Gutierrez. But who'd partner him? I'd pick Hülkenberg, I think he's clearly better than Koba. But who should Force India pick then. Of the drivers mentioned here, I'd say Kobayashi>Sutil>Alguersuari>Buemi. Koba would be best as he's raced this year, of others I think Sutil is best before Algu and Buemi. But money can change everything. And I think Williams needs to get rid of Senna.

Anyway, I really hope Kamui gets a seat for next year. He's sometimes very quick and good racer, but not always. If he would drive next year a similar season to this, then I wouldn't be too disappointed if he didn't get a seat. But I'd also love to see Sutil and Alguersuari getting one more chance, especiallyy Sutil was great in last season's final races.

#28 vas04614

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:36

I'm hoping Force India go for Buemi or Alguersuari then. Would be the easy way if they go for Sutil again. Would be surprised if Sutil wants to go back, especially after the way they ditched him last year when he was superior to Di Resta.

but don't think any other team is looking at him, so he will not say no to FI if approached IMO.

#29 Collective

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:37

Seriously, would Guttierez be getting a serious look into F1 right now if there was no "Slim" factor?
Is he a standout in GP2?

Well he only lost to two drivers that have been in GP2 forever and ever. Doesn't look completely out of place.

#30 BigWicks

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:42

I don't get Hulkenberg, he's not any better than Kobayashi.

#31 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:01

I don't get Hulkenberg, he's not any better than Kobayashi.

You dont know that. I think he very well might be.

I think thats a good signing for Sauber. Gutierrez brings money, which is good for the team as well. Not a bad lineup, although I dont expect much from Gutierrez on the track.

#32 seahawk

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:10

Hülkenberg seems way more consistent imho.

#33 Disgrace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:18

My initial reaction is not positive. Gutierrez could struggle badly initially; junior formulae results are not a foolproof indicator and he may prove to be another Kobayashi and shine in F1, but his errors in GP2 have not impressed. Hulkenberg is a safe choice but a sideways step in his career unless Force India is about to be bought out.

It's not like Kobayashi's mistakes are gonna go away if he gets to try the Sauber for a 4th season. They both need a change.


Please list these mistakes you refer to, other than today.

Edited by Disgrace, 14 October 2012 - 14:28.


#34 jannyg

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:27

No internet source for this...

But I had heard that Hulkenberg hadn't been paid properly this season, his contract has good bonuses based on performances and FI didn't expect him to go so well. This now makes sense to me seeing at FI are now in financial problems.

I think he is basically moving away from FI to get away from that as the situation doesn't look to be improving.

This is the only logical reason I can see for NH moving sidewards.

#35 Brandz07

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:29

Gutierrez has a lot more talent than half the cash bringers in the field. At least he knows how to win a championship, and was only beat in GP2 by two guys who've been in the series for 4 & 5 years.

#36 Brandz07

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:32

I don't get Hulkenberg, he's not any better than Kobayashi.


I know junior series results aren't everything, but Kobayashi finished 16th in both his GP2 seasons, Nico won the championship in his first season. It's clear to me that the natural talents there and he deserves a better car. The Sauber's been a better car than the FI all year IMO.

Edited by Brandz07, 14 October 2012 - 14:32.


#37 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:38

Gutierrez has a lot more talent than half the cash bringers in the field.

I dont really see any reason to believe this. The talent level on the grid right now is very high.

At least he knows how to win a championship, and was only beat in GP2 by two guys who've been in the series for 4 & 5 years.

He was pretty disappointing in GP2 overall. Flashes of speed at most. Lacked severely in racecraft and consistency. There's more to it than the GP2 standings show.

#38 Brandz07

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:41

I dont really see any reason to believe this. The talent level on the grid right now is very high.


He was pretty disappointing in GP2 overall. Flashes of speed at most. Lacked severely in racecraft and consistency. There's more to it than the GP2 standings show.


Well the first point was mainly aimed at the HRT drivers of recent years to be honest, I forget there are quite a few pay drivers in the field. And I'm by no means a big fan, I'd much rather see Calado get a seat, but I think there's more talent there than some people are suggesting.

Edited by Brandz07, 14 October 2012 - 14:41.


#39 noikeee

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:54

Gutierrez is a european Formula BMW champion, a GP3 champion, and a frontrunner in GP2, so he got on the F1 teams shortlist on merit. The last push that gets him a F1 seat ahead of the likes of Kobayashi would be based on money though, as he's not been convincing in GP2 and indeed matched by a less experienced Calado as a team-mate.

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#40 turssi

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 15:39

Changing both pilots is not what I like to see. Anyway if this happens I expect a similar 2013 for Sauber that Williams is having in 2012.

#41 gm914

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 15:43

Sutil is done in F1, I'm not even sure why his name was even being touted.

So Alguesuari and Di Resta at Force India? I like that match-up. Pity I can't stand the team. I will be rooting for both drivers to get good enough results to get the hell out of there. :p

#42 Disgrace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 15:46

Changing both pilots is not what I like to see. Anyway if this happens I expect a similar 2013 for Sauber that Williams is having in 2012.


Do you believe Hulkenberg will be as slow/crashprone as Senna/Maldonado have been this year in his third full season of F1? I don't see any evidence to support that. I think there will only be question marks over Gutierrez.

#43 turssi

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 15:50

Do you believe Hulkenberg will be as slow/crashprone as Senna/Maldonado have been this year in his third full season of F1? I don't see any evidence to support that. I think there will only be question marks over Gutierrez.


I was thinking more on the lines of a difficult season regarding the WCC crowned by a single race win :-)

#44 olliek88

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:12

Sutil is done in F1, I'm not even sure why his name was even being touted.

So Alguesuari and Di Resta at Force India? I like that match-up. Pity I can't stand the team. I will be rooting for both drivers to get good enough results to get the hell out of there. :p


Indeed, any ties he had with F1 have been "slashed", so to speak.

Surely Bianchi in the other Fi makes more sense?

#45 muramasa

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:27

After what happened in Japan I do feel a bit sorry for Kobayashi, but at the same time his performance today and being outperformed by Perez has done him no favours really.

as i wrote in Kobayashi thread, that collision was not as silly/reckless as it looks really. Even tho it's reckless, how many times he had opening lap accident involving multiple cars dog fight? None. This is his very first time to be a cause of such accident. Also, his other good performances at Suzuka, Germany, Barcelona etc are nullified by ONE accident? Are you sure? If so, how can Grosjean's seat be justified?

Also, Perez is doing great jobs in getting podiums, but all his podiums are due to him being the only driver with odd AND best strategy. Some people say 3 times cannot be lucky, but luck is luck no matter how many times it happens.

Plus it's really sad that how Kamui's been so unlucky is being overlooked by many people.
http://forums.autosp...p;#entry5961485
Even Barcelona and Germany, he was hindered by teams bad strategy and pitstop.

Kamui had some mistakes, but everyone makes mistakes, even Alonso and JB, the former at Suzuka, the latter clashed into back of HRT somewhere, etc etc. In fact Perez made more collisions with competitors than Kamui, and what he did in Suzuka is not better than Kamui at Korea at all.

Sadly in F1, only impression and result is what matters. Even extremely fine forumer like you is pretty much affected by it is nothing but the proof for that. Looking into race by race and detailed analysis is what only fools do, it seems.



#46 KinoNoNo

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:34

Well Sauber is known to drop drivers before the end of the season.

It would be unfortunate if it happened to Kamui. I would personally like to see him getting a chance to redeem himself after today.

#47 Slowinfastout

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:45

It would be quite ironic if Kobayashi was replaced before the end of the season considering that's how he entered the sport... Glock was denying still being injured and Kobayashi kept driving the Toyota (in pretty decent fashion..)

#48 apoka

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:52

Changing both pilots is not what I like to see.

Same here - especially since it seems to be one year too early for Gutierrez. I hope they can sign Gutierrez as a third driver (maybe with an option for a race seat in 2014) and still get some sponsor money. It will be better for the team and for Gutierrez, but the sponsors are basically deciding this.


#49 Elloh

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:54

Funny when people are saying that Gutierrez hasnt proven himself enough in GP2 to get Koba´s seat (after finishing third behind GP2 veterans Valsecchi (5 seasons) and Razia (4 seasons)), Kobayashi finished 16th overall BOTH his seasons in GP2...

#50 muramasa

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 17:00

Funny when people are saying that Gutierrez hasnt proven himself enough in GP2 to get Koba´s seat (after finishing third behind GP2 veterans Valsecchi (5 seasons) and Razia (4 seasons)), Kobayashi finished 16th overall BOTH his seasons in GP2...

Kobayashi was GP2 Asia champion.
Petrov was 2nd in Gp2
Timo was GP2 champion
Senna was 2nd in GP2
Pantano
di grassi
...