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Do we need Pirelli to shake up the order again?


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#1 1Devil1

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 15:03

After heading right into the last quarter of the season I found myself asking if the first part of the season was bad for sport in some way. Looking back the tires had too much influence regarding the results. Midfield-Teams like Mercedes or Williams excelled in special circumstances. Nobody was able to explain why a team was top notch at weekend and two weekends later they were no able to fight for points in extreme scenarios. The media and some fans liked the new show. Now we have the other extreme. It seems Red Bull is running away with it and the last races were plain "boring" to watch.

Do we need Pirelli to shake up the order again next yea to provide more suspensee (edit for next year of course)?

It's not my opinion but I have the feeling some of us would like more randomness instead of Vettel start to the flag victories

Edited by 1Devil1, 17 October 2012 - 15:07.


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#2 Sakae

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 15:07

Is this another test for Vettel to prove himslef that he is as good as Alonso and Hamilton? (Not I actually agree and accept that those two are ahead of him).

#3 1Devil1

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 15:11

Is this another test for Vettel to prove himslef that he is as good as Alonso and Hamilton? (Not I actually agree and accept that those two are ahead of him).


It has nothing to do with him. I even want him to win this year. It's about the show element in f1. Do we need it again for next year to avoid domination of one driver or is it against the spirit of the sport.

#4 Skinnyguy

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 15:15

Again? When it happened in the first place? I missed it.

They simply built some tyres, it took some team for teams to learn how to use them. Teams doing it best got good results early on. Now every team know about tyres, and results are more predictable.

#5 korzeniow

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 15:24

Again? When it happened in the first place? I missed it.

They simply built some tyres, it took some team for teams to learn how to use them. Teams doing it best got good results early on. Now every team know about tyres, and results are more predictable.


It's not all down to the tyres (like many Mercedes fans were arguing couple of months ago). RBR brought many updates over last couple of races and have the best package now

#6 Trust

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 15:27

Why don't we have 3 or 4 stops anymore? In the last races only two and one stops were done. Make those tyres fall apart earlier.

#7 Skinnyguy

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 16:13

It's not all down to the tyres (like many Mercedes fans were arguing couple of months ago). RBR brought many updates over last couple of races and have the best package now


I do think some teams advantage in early season was mostly down to working properly their tyres, but hey, that´s not Pirelli´s fault, they just did a better job.

#8 fisssssi

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:34

Yes.

Put all the cars in a big bag, shake it, then hand them out again randomly.

#9 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:11

Again? When it happened in the first place? I missed it.

They simply built some tyres, it took some team for teams to learn how to use them. Teams doing it best got good results early on. Now every team know about tyres, and results are more predictable.


This. :up:

#10 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:41

Don't turn Formula 1 into Mario Kart. Thank you.

#11 Smile17

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:06

They will do so when they see fit. Not Pirelli, but the business we call F1.

#12 August

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:13

Just terribly hard tyres for next year to make things diffucult for teams that had just learned how to save the soft tyres.

#13 Anderis

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:28

I think the teams have enough experience with super durable Bridgestones from 2010 to do it right from the beginning.

#14 peroa

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:32

LOL, completely different tyres, again...
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103511

#15 King Six

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:44

F1 is getting itself into dangerous territory now. It seems like faster drivers like Hamilton, Kobayashi and Hulkenberg are now being overlooked for tyre men like Perez and Button. Especially with Pirelli continuously making the compounds even more and more ridiculous every season and changing the tyres massively, even when the teams ask for some stability.

Pirelli have produced better tyres for the racing, but their lack of stability is too much. I think it's time for them to step aside and let someone else come in, someone who can still produce the goods, but also provide some stability to the sport.

It's not helping with the cost reduction either when drastic changes keep being made year on end. They have simply gone too far...

But with the modern breed of fans I'm sure everyone is dying for Pirelli to massively change everything and have things as the lottery as they were in the beginning of the season again. And that's one thing I'm worried about Pirelli, not just their consistency from season to season, or even race to race. But sometimes it feels like certain teams are getting better tyres than others within a Grand Prix. They'll make a batch for a GP weekend but some will be better than others, and the lottery aspect comes in as it's random as to who gets what set.

It's not quite right...

Edit: So to answer your question, please no. But 2013 is going to be another crazy start to the season, perhaps moreso than 2012. I'll expect one of the newer 2010 teams to score at some point in 2013 thanks to Pirelli.

Edited by King Six, 18 October 2012 - 11:46.


#16 Timstr11

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:49

LOL, completely different tyres, again...
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103511

The tyres will be significantly heavier according to Lowe, which was a big surprise for him.
Construction, shape and compounds will change as well. Supposed to be less temp sensitive.

Pirelli are amateurs. I wish Michelin was interested in being a single tyre supplier.

Edited by Timstr11, 18 October 2012 - 11:53.


#17 King Six

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 12:05

The fact that teams are already expressing concern is not a good sign, it's almost a veiled threat to Pirelli. Probably the only people who are rubbing their hands with glee is Button and especially Perez...maybe Sauber.

2013 should be a stringent test for Pirelli, if they **** up again then give them the boot. When people asked for better racing tyres they didn't ask for a complete farce.


#18 Timstr11

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 12:52

More on next year's tyres:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103514

Looks like it might certainly have an influence on driver pecking order.
This actually proves to me that the tyres had way too much influence in the car/driver package.
Tyres should not have that big an influence in my opinion.

Edited by Timstr11, 18 October 2012 - 12:55.


#19 King Six

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 12:55

Senna is gambling on the tyres actually being less ridiculous, but I reckon he's just hoping next time around the lottery will somehow be in his favour.

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#20 Alx09

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 13:11

This actually proves to me that the tyres had way too much influence in the car/driver package.
Tyres should not have that big an influence in my opinion.

That has been crystal clear for the one and a half year or so. These tyres punish some driving styles, and help others a ton.

I'm positive for a change that will allow drivers to have different styles.

#21 Dalton007

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 13:39

I'm happy that the tyre window will be increased. To get them working in such a narrow window is ridiculous and you had to luck into it in the beginning.

#22 1001

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 14:04

Again? When it happened in the first place? I missed it.

They simply built some tyres, it took some team for teams to learn how to use them. Teams doing it best got good results early on. Now every team know about tyres, and results are more predictable.

Really? Every weekend we hear from a driver or team saying the grip from the tyres was completely different from session to session and they don't understand. Although it's better than it was, the early season had a large amount of luck involved. You can't say Mercedes learnt how to use tyres early then decided to forget all that and make their car eat tyres for breakfast.

#23 MatsNorway

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 14:09

Make them more slide friendly or somthing.

#24 Trust

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 14:09

I'm happy that the tyre window will be increased. To get them working in such a narrow window is ridiculous and you had to luck into it in the beginning.

This is very good news for Hamilton.

#25 HoldenRT

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 15:08

More on next year's tyres:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103514

Looks like it might certainly have an influence on driver pecking order.
This actually proves to me that the tyres had way too much influence in the car/driver package.
Tyres should not have that big an influence in my opinion.

I agree.

But I also see it as a necessary evil due to a lack of other things..

- lack of a tyre war.. tyre development and being on the edge of extra speed/failure
- lack of different fuel strategies due to 100% race fuel for every car
- lack of engine development with different cars having different rev limits
- lack of inseason testing
- REALLY stable aero regs that hardly change from year to year anymore (and all the teams are closing in on each other)

All the cost cutting side of things in other words. Without those things.. I'd love to be rid of Pirelli and have Michelin vs Bridgestone again or something.. but unfortunately that's not the case.

I don't like how 'spec series' F1 is these days.. on live timing.. you have 12 or so cars that are close in lap times.. and you have cars taht are high or low in downforce doing similar sector times (due to a tyre bottleneck and cruising around on them).. but at least it's unpredictable and lots of drivers have a chance of winning.

Edited by HoldenRT, 18 October 2012 - 15:09.


#26 Diablobb81

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 15:14

They should shake it up by leaving the sport.

#27 Jejking

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 21:44

Kicking the thread because of the performance of the youngsters. I read a bunch of quotes from Frijns, he told in an interview about the tyres. First lap he pushed but after that life simply faded away and he couldn't get to grips anymore despite him being more and more careful with them continuously.

You know what, quotes like that worry me. A lot. It tells me that practically the whole grid has adapted VERY well but they are still riding on the edge of the tyre instead of grip and underperforming.

#28 Baddoer

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 22:03

Enough. I want to see Ferrari winning 18 races per year, thats it.

#29 fdspd

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 22:15

The more Pirelli push towards less durable tyres, the slower will be the lap times. Half way through a season the teams will again figure out the delta to which they can drive and make only one or two stops. Mark Webber pointed out once that they were already dangerously close to GP2 speeds with these tyres and if Pirelli make them any less durable F1 will be even slower.

#30 BigCHrome

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 23:57

I'm guessing that the tires will be softer and therefore faster.

#31 Atreiu

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 00:01

No

#32 packapoo

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:24

Only if there's someone (I don't know who that might be) who knows what he is observing looking over their shoulder.
Maybe someone from one of the former, established, suppliers.

Most of the glorification of the Pirelli shake up was only caused by their incompetence.