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Sauber versus Montiverdi versus Brun


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 08:52

In the early 90s there were three Suisse guys which wanted to etablish his own teams: Peter Sauber, Peter Montiverdi and Walter Brun. Just Peter Sauber survived. Why?

- Was it the support from Mercedes?
- Were Montiverdi and Brun a bit too early (there were to much teams at that times)?

What were the reasons, why Sauber survived and the other two not.

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#2 ryan86

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:24

I don't think one can discount that Sauber came in and immediately became solid midfielders. Whether that be the Ilmor/Mercedes engines, reasonable driver choice or good car design, and finished in the WCC between 6th and 8th throughout the nineties.

Walter Brun's team had a 30% success rate at actually making it to the race start and whatever the causes of that again, the fact is at the time they were not good enough.

Montiverdi, I don't know a lot about, but reading the Onyx F1 entry, it appears the rot had already started before he and his mate tried to do anything with it. Lack of money does appear to have been anissue.

#3 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:08

I would reckon the biggest factor was the fact that Sauber was a well established, world championship winning organisation that had already been in operation building cars for two decades.

#4 Duc-Man

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 13:25

I would reckon the biggest factor was the fact that Sauber was a well established, world championship winning organisation that had already been in operation building cars for two decades.


I'd say the same.

About Monteverdi: Peter Monteverdi was competing in mostly hillclimbs but also some 'normal' races between 1957 and '61 with the attempt for F1 in '61.
He also founded the AFAIK only suisse car company.
I would guess when he bought Onyx he tried to make his dream of having his own F1 team to finally come true.

Edited by Duc-Man, 20 October 2012 - 13:26.


#5 Rob G

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 13:54

He also founded the AFAIK only suisse car company.


There were others, most notably Pic-Pic (who fielded cars in the 1914 French GP) and Martini, but I don't think there were any significant manufacturers in existence when Monteverdi founded his company.

#6 Risil

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 15:01

I would reckon the biggest factor was the fact that Sauber was a well established, world championship winning organisation that had already been in operation building cars for two decades.


Pedantry: Brun Motorsport won the World Sportscar Championship in 1986, three years before Sauber won their first one. Of course the fact that Brun did it with a customer 962, and not their own project, is a crucial difference between them and Sauber.

#7 Michael Ferner

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 16:07

Sauber had a business plan, while Brun and Monteverdi were, to put it mildly, "dreamers"...

Which reminds me: you've forgotten Joachim Lüthi on your list.

#8 mfd

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 20:43

Which reminds me: you've forgotten Joachim Lüthi on your list.

Go straight to jail

#9 LittleChris

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 21:17

I thought Onyx whenrun by Mike Earle did a very good job. A podium in your first year, despite having to pre qualify for the races is nothing to be sneered at. It was only when Peter Monteverdi took over the operation and everyone with any sense left that it went tits up.

#10 mfd

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 22:04

I thought Onyx whenrun by Mike Earle did a very good job. A podium in your first year, despite having to pre qualify for the races is nothing to be sneered at. It was only when Peter Monteverdi took over the operation and everyone with any sense left that it went tits up.

That's because 1989 was funded by Moneytron whereas 1990 (the Monteverde year) was a much depleted effort, which eventually turned into a joke.

#11 uechtel

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:33

Hm, I see it just the other way round. To my unrestanding 'Moneytron' was kind of a snowball system of this Jean-Pierre van Rossem, for sure not much less ridiculous as Monteverdi´s later efforts. When Rossem was put inoperative by some state authorities this meant the end of the Onyx team. Monteverdi made more or less only a prolongation of the end when he did not succeed in opening new funding for the team.

#12 HistoryFan

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 14:46

Thank you guys! A lot of interesting thinkings



#13 jeffbee

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 12:16

I would reckon the biggest factor was the fact that Sauber was a well established, world championship winning organisation that had already been in operation building cars for two decades.



There was also a very close link with Mercedes!

#14 D-Type

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 16:35

There was also a very close link with Mercedes!

To the extent that some of the F1 Saubers said "Concept by Mercedes Benz" on the side.