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Why Buddh International Circuit is so much praised?


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#1 August

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 18:30

I wonder why the Indian circuit is so much praised, many people say it's even better than Turkey of Tilkedromes. Yeah, it has some nice corners but for example I prefer Korea and Malaysia to it. My analysis of the Indian circuit (corner numbers):

Pit straight is too short for overtaking. And as T1 isn't an overtaking spot, it's then too slow. Uphill sweep T2 looks nice, but as it's between a sharp 90-deg and a hairpin, it's probably not so spectacular for a driver. Faster T1 would make T2 and approach to T3 more spectacular. And maybe there could be more mistakes in a faster T1 leading to overtakes in T3.

Then there's a long straight before T4, but it's just another hairpin. The wide entry just makes it a bit faster. Then the T6-7 chicane after T5 is too slow, I think. T8-9 is nicer, it's like the fast chicane at Magny-Cours. But I'd prefer that section with the shortcut from T5 to T7, the approach to T8 would be faster.

T10-11 is nice, still it's a lame copy of Suzuka's faster Spoon curve. T13-14 is also nice even though I generally dislike short-radius corners, like T14. T15 is OK, even though I'd prefer it a bit faster. But the final corner T16 is once again a hairpin.

So, I'd say the section between T5 to T15 is good, but the other half of the lap is boring. But not even that T5-15 section is the best section on any Tilkedrome, Korea after the 3rd straight (and subsequent chicane) is great. And also Turkey and Malaysia are better. I'd say New Delhi is 4th best Tilkedrome alonside Bahrain, and COTA will go ahead.

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#2 mey3059

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:00

sorry? is this about some poll results?

I would have thought, being the second fastest circuit in the calendar with plenty of turns and elevation changes had something to do with its likeability.

also, how can you say that about austin, no f1 car has done a lap in anger there. ( I do think its gonna be great though)

#3 SpaMaster

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:04

What poll is this?

#4 sesku

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:15

Not a fan of Indian circuit. why some people compare it to Spa? What is the similarity between Spa and this Indian circuit?

#5 Atreiu

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:15

Its good for Tilke standards.

#6 Collective

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:16

C'mon, Korea? Yuck. Prefer this one much better.

#7 P123

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:20

Both Korea and India would be better without the smoggy 'scenery'.

Edited by P123, 26 October 2012 - 19:20.


#8 grunge

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:43

C'mon, Korea? Yuck. Prefer this one much better.

Korea has to be the most underrated circuit on the calender... it has such flow with those series of medium/fast corners after the third chicane.. and very technical as well...10X better than the Buddh circuit

Edited by grunge, 26 October 2012 - 19:44.


#9 likeRacing

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:44

I wonder why the Indian circuit is so much praised, many people say it's even better than Turkey of Tilkedromes. Yeah, it has some nice corners but for example I prefer Korea and Malaysia to it. My analysis of the Indian circuit (corner numbers):


Really?. Well, I don't know why you spent so much effort typing all of this. Basically what you are saying is that the circuit is crap. You have a problem with every corner :lol:

Driver say its one of the most challenging and they really like it. I really like the circuit. It is better than KOREA!

#10 grunge

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:46

Really?. Well, I don't know why you spent so much effort typing all of this. Basically what you are saying is that the circuit is crap. You have a problem with every corner :lol:

Driver say its one of the most challenging and they really like it. I really like the circuit. It is better than KOREA!

Explain how?

#11 likeRacing

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:56

Explain how?


Elevation changes, really technical second sector, late apexes and it is second fastest on the calendar....And allow me to add IMO It is better than KOREA!. The mickey mouse section in Korea really doesn't do anything for me. Add to that the idiotic pit entry and exit.

#12 August

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:56

Really?. Well, I don't know why you spent so much effort typing all of this. Basically what you are saying is that the circuit is crap. You have a problem with every corner :lol:

Driver say its one of the most challenging and they really like it. I really like the circuit. It is better than KOREA!


I didn't say I have a problem with every corner, I rather meant I see no corner as perfect. I'd be happy if they used that T5-7 shortcut instead of that chicane, and I'd prefer T1 faster, if those things were changed, I'd be quite happy with the Indian circuit.

Explain how?


The only thing that's worse in Korea than in India is that the place looks like a construction site.

#13 likeRacing

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 20:02

I didn't say I have a problem with every corner, I rather meant I see no corner as perfect. I'd be happy if they used that T5-7 shortcut instead of that chicane, and I'd prefer T1 faster, if those things were changed, I'd be quite happy with the Indian circuit.



The only thing that's worse in Korea than in India is that the place looks like a construction site.


Obviously we have differing taste. But i quite like 5,6,7 sequence.

#14 BetaVersion

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 21:03

Elevation changes, really technical second sector, late apexes and it is second fastest on the calendar....And allow me to add IMO It is better than KOREA!. The mickey mouse section in Korea really doesn't do anything for me. Add to that the idiotic pit entry and exit.


Korea have as much mickey mouse section as India, in fact, even less.

The corners of Korea S2 and S3 are more challenging than India's S2 imho, as well.

I'm with grunge here. Korea is great!

#15 Longtimefan

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 21:13

No idea why its praised so much, I think its a terrible circuit.

Very dull and uninteresting. I'd rather have a 2nd race at Valencia than this tripe.


#16 BigCHrome

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 21:22

I like Buddh because it has a nice flow and it's quite fast. Obviously it could've been even better if it wasn't for all the chicanes but the blame for that goes on FIA and their ridiculous hard-on for safety.

Compared to Istanbul Park, both tracks deserve a place on the calendar and in both tracks it's fun to watch the cars circulate.

I don't like Korea because the second part of the lap is just too mickey-mouse; it's just left-right, left-right exactly the same corner over and over. The section from T6 to T12 is nice but the rest is junk until the last corner which is very cool.

#17 Baddoer

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 21:54

Korea is much better, driving it in sim really pleasing, especially fast section at the beginning of S2. India is good, but I still prefer Yeongam track.

#18 MP422

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 03:13

Korea is awesome, cars look really fast through the second sector. Buddh circuit is interesting with the tight chicanes and that sweeping radius that tightens up catches the drivers out.

I don't get all the complaining about modern F1 circuits. They are what they are and the only two that really disappoint overtaking are Monaco and Hungary.... There is nothing wrong with Tilke circuits.

#19 grunge

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 03:39

I didn't say I have a problem with every corner, I rather meant I see no corner as perfect. I'd be happy if they used that T5-7 shortcut instead of that chicane, and I'd prefer T1 faster, if those things were changed, I'd be quite happy with the Indian circuit.



The only thing that's worse in Korea than in India is that the place looks like a construction site.

On comparison as a pure race track ,Korea is superior to India in every single respect...India if anything is more Micky mouse...the sequence of corners in S2 and S3 in Korea is very exciting and technical at the same time.Try the circuit in Rfactor or F1-2012...its almost Spa-isque in entertainment value.

As years go by,i can completely see the Yeongam circuit becoming a driver and fan favourite alike.

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#20 CoolBreeze

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 05:04

I think Tilke's best circuit so far is Malaysia and Istanbul. The rest is rubbish. Look how he Tilkenised Hockenhimring!

#21 InvertedLift

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 05:16

I agree re: Korea, most underrated circuit on the calendar. Certainly the best of the Tilkedromes introduced in the last few years.

#22 likeRacing

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 05:40

No idea why its praised so much, I think its a terrible circuit.

Very dull and uninteresting. I'd rather have a 2nd race at Valencia than this tripe.


:confused:

#23 HoldenRT

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 06:57

Both of these circuits aren't special IMO.. they are both ok.. but I don't like them.. it's just that I always like all tracks.. but these are 2 of my least faves.



#24 Mc_Silver

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:16

Both of these circuits aren't special IMO.. they are both ok.. but I don't like them.. it's just that I always like all tracks.. but these are 2 of my least faves.


I can't wait for abu dhabi which one of my favourite and it is quite a unique track :cool:

#25 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:24

I definitely prefer India to Korea but both are pretty good as far as modern circuits go. My problems with Korea is that S1 is too Bahrain like it it's long straights punctuated by too slow corners, while the final sector is a bit too Mickey Mouse.

India seems more like a classic permanent track. There aren't any endless corner sequences and each part feels like it's there for a reason. It also has some nice elevation changes to add interest. It reminds me of a Kyalami or an Estoril or something along those lines.

#26 tabovilla

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:50

No idea why its praised so much, I think its a terrible circuit.

Very dull and uninteresting. I'd rather have a 2nd race at Valencia than this tripe.

Aw come on! can't be that bad :rotfl:

Personally, I like it. One of the best recently built/designed tracks.

Edited by tabovilla, 27 October 2012 - 07:52.


#27 chrisblades85

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 08:53

Pretty much like 90% of the Tilkeodromes, it's nothing special.

#28 Jimisgod

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 08:56

It's a good "layout", but it just feels like you could set it up in a Las Vegas carpark and it would look the same.

#29 Massa_f1

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:19

Pretty much like 90% of the Tilkeodromes, it's nothing special.



:up: Bland and boring.

#30 August

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 15:03

Korea is awesome, cars look really fast through the second sector. Buddh circuit is interesting with the tight chicanes and that sweeping radius that tightens up catches the drivers out.

I don't get all the complaining about modern F1 circuits. They are what they are and the only two that really disappoint overtaking are Monaco and Hungary.... There is nothing wrong with Tilke circuits.


Korea's S2 is really awesome, it's a great section. And S3 isn't too bad, 90-degs are often boring, but as a sequence they aren't. The only changes I'd made to Korea circuit would be to get rid of T4-6 chicane and make T10 faster. Current T10 is slow even for Korea's S3, and faster T10 would make S3 even more awesome.

And India's S2 & S3 are good too. Based on my sim experiences, India is maybe a bit more challenging, Korea more enjoyable by far.

And to your latter point, I partly agree. Considering FIA's safety requirements, it's difficult to make a great circuit like old good Österreichring or old Estoril. Chicanefied Imola is an example on how bad an "enough safe" circuit can be, most Tilkedromes are better. On the other hand, Tilkedromes are lame compared to circuits like Spa and Suzuka, or Road America to mention a non-F1 circuit.

I definitely prefer India to Korea but both are pretty good as far as modern circuits go. My problems with Korea is that S1 is too Bahrain like it it's long straights punctuated by too slow corners, while the final sector is a bit too Mickey Mouse.

India seems more like a classic permanent track. There aren't any endless corner sequences and each part feels like it's there for a reason. It also has some nice elevation changes to add interest. It reminds me of a Kyalami or an Estoril or something along those lines.


Well, between India's T15 and T5, there are three hairpins and one 90-deg plus one low sweep. Between Korea's T18 and T4, there are three hairpins and one kink, i.e. there is one slow corner less. And Korea's straights are better for overtaking, pit straight isn't too good for overtaking, but the long straight is good for overtaking, and the straight after it allows you to continue fighting for the position after that long straight. India isn't as good for overtaking, you can't continue fighting after that long straight like you can in Korea. And the pit straight is maybe a bit short for overtaking, it's a bit longer than in Korea, but fast final corners make Korea's pit straight effectively longer.

#31 Richard T

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 15:32

It need trees and nature!!!

#32 jee

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 15:38

You will like COTA then :wave:

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#33 likeRacing

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 15:44

Haha,, nice one jee... I just don't understand. Most of the drivers say the track is one of the best but half of the fans here prefer Korea to India. I haven't heard drivers say such nice things about Korea than India.

#34 muramasa

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 15:48


This track is like "Greatest Hits" album.

#35 Atreiu

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 15:55

They all suffer from Tilke's obsession with elbows, hairpins and 90 degree corners.

From turn 15 on Buddh is this:
Elbow to the right
Short straight
Elbow to the left
Medium length straight
90 degree corner to the right
Flat out easy bend left
Elbow to the right
Long straight
Elbow to the right
Medium length straight and only then is the circuit worty if the flat kerbs and tarmac run-offs are forgotten.

Like Korea, less tan half is worthy, the rest is a juntion of straights, elbows/hairpins and slow corners.

Edited by Atreiu, 27 October 2012 - 16:01.


#36 SpaMaster

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 18:20

Fast and flowing! Drivers like it.. Korea is also nice. But this one has had a name for being fast right from its first year. It is a clue when you yourself say it is being praised so much! :p

Edited by SpaMaster, 27 October 2012 - 18:21.


#37 sailor

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 18:32

Be coz its difficult to get a perfect lap in. See how many made mistakes in q3
Vettel webber Hamilton Alonso and massa keeps screwing up


#38 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 20:16

They all suffer from Tilke's obsession with elbows, hairpins and 90 degree corners.

From turn 15 on Buddh is this:
Elbow to the right
Short straight
Elbow to the left
Medium length straight
90 degree corner to the right
Flat out easy bend left
Elbow to the right
Long straight
Elbow to the right
Medium length straight and only then is the circuit worty if the flat kerbs and tarmac run-offs are forgotten.

Like Korea, less tan half is worthy, the rest is a juntion of straights, elbows/hairpins and slow corners.

Yep and they all favour Red Bull

#39 Skinnyguy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:36

If you wipe out the corners after the hairpin in the end of the huge straight and before the looooong right hander ala Spoon, it´d be good. Just like S3 kills Corea, these corners kill this circuit for me.


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#40 LB

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:13

I think Tilke's best circuit so far is Malaysia and Istanbul. The rest is rubbish. Look how he Tilkenised Hockenhimring!


Yeah and made it a better race track, with better viewing.

India is waaaay better than Korea, i hate the Korean track for some reason, guess i like hills.

#41 Skinnyguy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:19

Look how he Tilkenised Hockenhimring!


The old layout was rubbish, as repetitive as it can get. People missed it because 1) nostalgia effect 2) places like that produced half-decent racing in a era where racing was a bizarre anomaly.

Current layout is way, way better. It lacks the cool forest atmosphere, but if we concentrate in the track... Newey would have been killed if he designed something like that today.

#42 August

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 15:54

Well, between India's T15 and T5, there are three hairpins and one 90-deg plus one low sweep. Between Korea's T18 and T4, there are three hairpins and one kink, i.e. there is one slow corner less. And Korea's straights are better for overtaking, pit straight isn't too good for overtaking, but the long straight is good for overtaking, and the straight after it allows you to continue fighting for the position after that long straight. India isn't as good for overtaking, you can't continue fighting after that long straight like you can in Korea. And the pit straight is maybe a bit short for overtaking, it's a bit longer than in Korea, but fast final corners make Korea's pit straight effectively longer.


I think today's race proved this.

#43 SpaMaster

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 15:59

The old layout was rubbish, as repetitive as it can get. People missed it because 1) nostalgia effect 2) places like that produced half-decent racing in a era where racing was a bizarre anomaly.

Current layout is way, way better. It lacks the cool forest atmosphere, but if we concentrate in the track... Newey would have been killed if he designed something like that today.

I agree. The modern Hockenheimring is a text book to design "racy" racing tracks i.e. tracks that promote racing and overtaking with a nice mix of straights, fast corners and low-speed corners. Spa, Hockenheimring and Interlagos stand alone in that sense, they are beauty of tracks that promote racing and overtaking.

#44 spacekid

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 16:30

Yep and they all favour Red Bull


I'm sorry but I couldn't let this one go. No - Red Bull have designed their car to suit this sort of circuit. Why wouldn't they?

I'm not a fan of the Tilke circuits, and I don't like the Indian track. Its nice if the drivers like it, but I don't really enjoying watching cars racing on it.

#45 aportinga

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 17:17

I think the track - along with Korea resembles an indoor go cart track. Hate it and I could not care to watch the entire race.

#46 H2H

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 17:26

Korea's S2 is really awesome, it's a great section. And S3 isn't too bad, 90-degs are often boring, but as a sequence they aren't. The only changes I'd made to Korea circuit would be to get rid of T4-6 chicane and make T10 faster. Current T10 is slow even for Korea's S3, and faster T10 would make S3 even more awesome.

And India's S2 & S3 are good too. Based on my sim experiences, India is maybe a bit more challenging, Korea more enjoyable by far.

And to your latter point, I partly agree. Considering FIA's safety requirements, it's difficult to make a great circuit like old good Österreichring or old Estoril. Chicanefied Imola is an example on how bad an "enough safe" circuit can be, most Tilkedromes are better. On the other hand, Tilkedromes are lame compared to circuits like Spa and Suzuka, or Road America to mention a non-F1 circuit.


Well, between India's T15 and T5, there are three hairpins and one 90-deg plus one low sweep. Between Korea's T18 and T4, there are three hairpins and one kink, i.e. there is one slow corner less. And Korea's straights are better for overtaking, pit straight isn't too good for overtaking, but the long straight is good for overtaking, and the straight after it allows you to continue fighting for the position after that long straight. India isn't as good for overtaking, you can't continue fighting after that long straight like you can in Korea. And the pit straight is maybe a bit short for overtaking, it's a bit longer than in Korea, but fast final corners make Korea's pit straight effectively longer.


A very sensible post, thank you. I just want to add that it seems that the circuits later in the calendar suffer from the greatly increased knowledge of the teams, this year especially in the tyre department. With the development race in full swing there are far fewer surprises and mixed results. It is not surprising that the big teams have stamped their authoritiy much more strongly on the second half of the season.

Personally I would love to see tracks like India, Korea and Austin earlier in the season, if the climate permits it.

#47 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 18:10

The old layout was rubbish, as repetitive as it can get. People missed it because 1) nostalgia effect 2) places like that produced half-decent racing in a era where racing was a bizarre anomaly.

Current layout is way, way better. It lacks the cool forest atmosphere, but if we concentrate in the track... Newey would have been killed if he designed something like that today.


The old layout was epic, it was great watching the drivers struggle for grip with those skinny wings. New Hockenheim is just another Tilkedrom, nothing exciting about it, same type of track as 99% of the rest of the calendar.

#48 johnmhinds

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 18:37

The point and shoot straights really ruin the flow of this track, and the section between turns 5-14 is ok but hasn't created any overtaking in the two years we've been there.

Watching cars only pass into turn 4 this year made for a boring race to watch.

#49 juicy sushi

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 18:59

I can't wait for abu dhabi which one of my favourite and it is quite a unique track :cool:

I always thought Kimi summed that place up best. I find it way too flat, slow and forgettable


#50 juicy sushi

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 19:06

I agree. The modern Hockenheimring is a text book to design "racy" racing tracks i.e. tracks that promote racing and overtaking with a nice mix of straights, fast corners and low-speed corners. Spa, Hockenheimring and Interlagos stand alone in that sense, they are beauty of tracks that promote racing and overtaking.

I find the Tilke-version of Hockenheim has a lot less action than the old version. It also lacks the "BIG SPEED" character. Curse that disgruntled Mercedes employee...