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Who's the new Newey?


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#1 Dunc

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:54

Is there another aerodynamicist out there who can compete with the great one? RBR have such an advantage having him on board, I can't believe another team couldn't find someone with his kind of ability to help level the playing field.

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#2 Mc_Silver

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:57

If you think you are going to be the new Newey please apply http://www.mclaren-jobs.com :p

#3 boldhakka

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:59

Good question, and thanks for creating the topic. I'd like to learn more about this.

We know that someone or a small team in McLaren is doing a very, very good job on this front.

Lotus's Allison is pretty good too, given their resources.

#4 Nahnever

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:01

Newey could literally hang up on some Kid Nerds bedroom wall. He's a superstar.

#5 Gyan

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:01

James Key was being touted as a good rising star. He contributed to this season's Sauber I think.

Bad news is, he's been signed up by Toro Rosso, so if he does do well, he'll just replace Newey at goddamn Red Bull itself, again.

#6 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:03

Newey could literally hang up on some Kid Nerds bedroom wall. He's a superstar.


:rotfl:

#7 DracoN

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:04

Matt Morris ?

#8 Dunc

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:07

Good question, and thanks for creating the topic. I'd like to learn more about this.

We know that someone or a small team in McLaren is doing a very, very good job on this front.

Lotus's Allison is pretty good too, given their resources.


I aim to please :)

The first championship I watched was in 1992, won by a driver in a Newey car. It's now 2012, and it looks like, yet again, one of his cars is going to win both championships. There are thousands of aerodynamicists in the world, working in motor racing, motor manufacturing and aeronautical engineering, I can't believe that there isn't anyone of them who couldn't be at least a match to him.

#9 showtime

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:21

Newey has been the best interpreting 2009 regs change. I guess we will have to wait until 2014 to see if other are up to the task.

#10 DarthWillie

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:33

Let's see
1992 - Nigel Mansell
1993 - Alain Prost
1996 - Damon Hill
1998 - Mika Hakkinen
1999 - Mika Hakkinen
2010 - Sebastian Vettel
2011 - Sebastian Vettel

That's the list of drivers winning the WDC in a Newey car. If anything it shows having a Newey car is not a 100% guarantee for succes. It also shows Newey didn't win a WDC in the first decade of this century. What it does show is, you need a very good driver to win it. Only Mansell and Hill are not double champions, but both were very close to being that (mansell 1986, Hill 2004) Of course it is an advantage to have Newey as your designer but like McLaren is showing this year. You need more.

Newey's strength is combining the right people to get the job done. he does not design the car alone. Just like Briatore at Benetton and Williams, having a team of right people, combined with a strong team and excellent drivers is the key for succes.

#11 drag

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:35

I dont have clue about aerodynamics or engineering but what strikes me most is that at first I thought that Newey is just great at aerodynamics but as time goes by I think of himself as a complete package ..... seems like he is involved in many aspects of the car and he is damn good at it.

There is not new Newey around,must be rare genius that man, he can make F1 boring sometimes but at least we enjoy seeing his creations year after year ....... :)

#12 Atreiu

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:37

Not at Ferrari, LOL.


#13 ApexOversteer

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:12

Only Mansell and Hill are not double champions, but both were very close to being that (mansell 1986, Hill 2004) Of course it is an advantage to have Newey as your designer but like McLaren is showing this year. You need more.



LOL, what are you smoking? Damon Hill retired from F1 at the end of 1999.

#14 Fallout

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:15

LOL, what are you smoking? Damon Hill retired from F1 at the end of 1999.

And of all the seasons to choose between, he chose 2004 ...... :drunk:

#15 mnmracer

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:24

LOL, what are you smoking? Damon Hill retired from F1 at the end of 1999.

he obviously meant 1994 ;)

#16 muramasa

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:30


Some guys at RBR working under Newey must be quite excellent I imagine. :D

#17 Wander

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:53

And of all the seasons to choose between, he chose 2004 ...... :drunk:


Confusing 2004 with 1994 might seem strange at first, but this particular typo can be explained quite well. 2 and 0 are both only one button to the right from 1 and 9. The only surprising thing is that he didn't accidentally write 2005 as that would have been more consistent with this "one button too much to the right" mistake.

#18 Raziel

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 18:21

That kid from McLaren who invented and proposed that idea to senior aerodynamicists at Macca? :p I read somewhere that he is a young guy who came up with this idea so there is a potential :p


#19 BetaVersion

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:04

James Key was being touted as a good rising star. He contributed to this season's Sauber I think.

Bad news is, he's been signed up by Toro Rosso, so if he does do well, he'll just replace Newey at goddamn Red Bull itself, again.


is he an aerodynamicist? I thought he wasn't :confused:

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#20 undersquare

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:22

Can a Newey even emerge in modern F1 teams? The guy at McLaren who came up with F-Duct had to fight it through for a year or two before the old fogies above him would accept it. There are vested interests, heirarchies. Less tolerance for the huge mistakes like the MP4-18 that are part of genius. Genuises are often difficult to live with, politically incorrect, high-maintenance and fall out with people, while modern F1 teams are squeaky clean big organisations that require people to fit in. I reckon aero departments are all full of people who are 'very good'.

Love to be wrong though.

#21 Kingshark

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:41

Toni Cuquerella.

#22 Dolph

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:52

And of all the seasons to choose between, he chose 2004 ...... :drunk:


Yeah, its not just a typeo. Its weird :drunk:

#23 Dolph

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:53

Let's see
1992 - Nigel Mansell
1993 - Alain Prost
1996 - Damon Hill
1998 - Mika Hakkinen
1999 - Mika Hakkinen
2010 - Sebastian Vettel
2011 - Sebastian Vettel

That's the list of drivers winning the WDC in a Newey car. If anything it shows having a Newey car is not a 100% guarantee for succes. It also shows Newey didn't win a WDC in the first decade of this century. What it does show is, you need a very good driver to win it. Only Mansell and Hill are not double champions, but both were very close to being that (mansell 1986, Hill 2004) Of course it is an advantage to have Newey as your designer but like McLaren is showing this year. You need more.

Newey's strength is combining the right people to get the job done. he does not design the car alone. Just like Briatore at Benetton and Williams, having a team of right people, combined with a strong team and excellent drivers is the key for succes.


I don't think anyone for a second that that having a Newey car is 100% success.



#24 MirNyet

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:54

Part of the reason Newey shines is that he has the ability to wrap an entire package around its aero requirements. The Red Bull car has a underpowered KERS (as the batteries would have dented the airflow), an engine being robbed of power to serve the airflow, and a weight balance and component design all bent in order to get the overall body shape he wanted. What other designer could get that without other department heads screaming blue murder about the problems to their corners of the car?

Even if there is a designer as good as Newey on the grid right now, he would never get the amount of say Newey gets in the overall design of the platform.

Edited by MirNyet, 27 October 2012 - 19:56.


#25 g1n

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 20:11

Part of the reason Newey shines is that he has the ability to wrap an entire package around its aero requirements. The Red Bull car has a underpowered KERS (as the batteries would have dented the airflow), an engine being robbed of power to serve the airflow, and a weight balance and component design all bent in order to get the overall body shape he wanted. What other designer could get that without other department heads screaming blue murder about the problems to their corners of the car?

Even if there is a designer as good as Newey on the grid right now, he would never get the amount of say Newey gets in the overall design of the platform.


The thing is we do not really know 100% if that is the case, it is just speculation and guesstimates.

#26 WatchingF1since4yearsold

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:05

Even if there is a designer as good as Newey on the grid right now, he would never get the amount of say Newey gets in the overall design of the platform.


that and the fact only McLaren and Ferrari even come close in terms of the funding/resources they can make available to the technical staff.

#27 MirNyet

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 22:22

The thing is we do not really know 100% if that is the case, it is just speculation and guesstimates.


We do know that the KERS is underpowered due to packaging problems and Newey refusing to give space or prime position to the batteries - Red Bull have been quoted as saying this - also it is common knowledge that they are running a chamber in the exhaust to simulate blowing - this knocks the engine down a couple of clicks as the engine cannot breath as it normally would.

#28 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:17

We do know that the KERS is underpowered due to packaging problems and Newey refusing to give space or prime position to the batteries - Red Bull have been quoted as saying this - also it is common knowledge that they are running a chamber in the exhaust to simulate blowing - this knocks the engine down a couple of clicks as the engine cannot breath as it normally would.


Those are all unsubstantiated rumours and bad simplifications.

Ferrari have had that chamber for a long time and they've had no problems with engine power.

#29 MaxisOne

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:22

Part of the reason Newey shines is that he has the ability to wrap an entire package around its aero requirements. The Red Bull car has a underpowered KERS (as the batteries would have dented the airflow), an engine being robbed of power to serve the airflow, and a weight balance and component design all bent in order to get the overall body shape he wanted. What other designer could get that without other department heads screaming blue murder about the problems to their corners of the car?

Even if there is a designer as good as Newey on the grid right now, he would never get the amount of say Newey gets in the overall design of the platform.


I have a feeling this is true.

He isnt the Chief Technical officer for nothing... He has the final say and everyone else in the other department have to operate under his overall guidelines... There is no group think going on up in there. If there was any hint of that i think Adrian would bail.

#30 2ms

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:43

All this hyping up Newey is beyond old. Its genesis, of course, is primarily in the bitterness of fans of other drivers who Vettel keeps beating. "My driver would have won if it wasn't for the unfair advantage of Newey". But it's all bull. The best teams get the best drivers and the best designers. For all we know, there are 5 other guys in F1 who would do an even better job than Newey if they were at Red Bull.

Frankly, it's an insult (made by people who basically don't know what they are talking about) to many other amazing talents in F1. From all the hype around here, one would never realize that Newey didn't win a damn thing in over a decade prior to Vettel's arrival. Year after year after year it was always someone else's car.

#31 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:39

All this hyping up Newey is beyond old. Its genesis, of course, is primarily in the bitterness of fans of other drivers who Vettel keeps beating. "My driver would have won if it wasn't for the unfair advantage of Newey". But it's all bull. The best teams get the best drivers and the best designers. For all we know, there are 5 other guys in F1 who would do an even better job than Newey if they were at Red Bull.

Frankly, it's an insult (made by people who basically don't know what they are talking about) to many other amazing talents in F1. From all the hype around here, one would never realize that Newey didn't win a damn thing in over a decade prior to Vettel's arrival. Year after year after year it was always someone else's car.


Alonso: "At the moment we are not fighting against Sebastian only," Alonso said following qualifying. "We are also fighting against Newey let's say - [the team] has finished first or second in the last four races."

Is he also a bitter fanboy?

Newey didn't win last decade because his team was incompetent, something they've continued to practice into this decade. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of testing his rivals did in their own private track, or the super sticky tires they had, or the engine advantage they enjoyed over the Mercedes unit after they cried to the FIA about it.


#32 alfa1

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:46


Was reading something a few weeks ago which pointed out the days of "the designer" are over.

With 99.99 percent of all lower junior Formula classes being one make homologated series, there is now simply no place for a young designer to learn their craft (as there was in the old days).

Maybe somebody should make a list of Formula classes where a young designer could go to learn car design, because OTOH I cant think of any.





#33 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:14

Was reading something a few weeks ago which pointed out the days of "the designer" are over.

With 99.99 percent of all lower junior Formula classes being one make homologated series, there is now simply no place for a young designer to learn their craft (as there was in the old days).

Maybe somebody should make a list of Formula classes where a young designer could go to learn car design, because OTOH I cant think of any.


It's called an internship in F1.

#34 Kelateboy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:40

Let's see
1992 - Nigel Mansell
1993 - Alain Prost
1996 - Damon Hill
1998 - Mika Hakkinen
1999 - Mika Hakkinen
2010 - Sebastian Vettel
2011 - Sebastian Vettel

You missed out 1994 - Williams FW16. That car won the WCC. :D

#35 Cool Beans

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:39

All this hyping up Newey is beyond old. Its genesis, of course, is primarily in the bitterness of fans of other drivers who Vettel keeps beating. "My driver would have won if it wasn't for the unfair advantage of Newey". But it's all bull. The best teams get the best drivers and the best designers. For all we know, there are 5 other guys in F1 who would do an even better job than Newey if they were at Red Bull.

Frankly, it's an insult (made by people who basically don't know what they are talking about) to many other amazing talents in F1. From all the hype around here, one would never realize that Newey didn't win a damn thing in over a decade prior to Vettel's arrival. Year after year after year it was always someone else's car.

Newey was considered a genius long before Vettel ever drove anything with wheels on it. Newey's infamy among rival teams has nothing to do with Vettel. It's the same as Lewis somehow being an essential part of McLaren; only in the minds of younger viewers who don't know anything else.

#36 alfa1

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:44

Newey was considered a genius long before Vettel ever drove anything with wheels on it.



Out of interest, I just did a search and the earliest reference I can find on the internet
(in usenet rec.autos.sport.f1) to Adrian Newey being a genius is March 7, 1999...

Adrian Newey:BAN HIM
You have got to take your hat off to him. he is the best racing car designer
in the world and a genius to boot.


But I like this quote from 1996...
Adrian Newey is to Frank Williams as God is to Moses



#37 decoder

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 04:22

Let's see
1992 - Nigel Mansell
1993 - Alain Prost
1996 - Damon Hill
1998 - Mika Hakkinen
1999 - Mika Hakkinen
2010 - Sebastian Vettel
2011 - Sebastian Vettel

That's the list of drivers winning the WDC in a Newey car. If anything it shows having a Newey car is not a 100% guarantee for succes. It also shows Newey didn't win a WDC in the first decade of this century. What it does show is, you need a very good driver to win it. Only Mansell and Hill are not double champions, but both were very close to being that (mansell 1986, Hill 2004) Of course it is an advantage to have Newey as your designer but like McLaren is showing this year. You need more.

Newey's strength is combining the right people to get the job done. he does not design the car alone. Just like Briatore at Benetton and Williams, having a team of right people, combined with a strong team and excellent drivers is the key for succes.


You forget Jaques Villeneuve. The 1997 Williams was a Newey car, he left during that season.

#38 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:57

I would argue Rory Byrne produced arguably better cars and his were more reliable too.

It is a combination of things; good drivers, healthy budget, good resources, good personell etc etc.

Let us not forget some Newey stinkers from Mclaren and early Red Bull machinery.

#39 decoder

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:03

I would argue Rory Byrne produced arguably better cars and his were more reliable too.

It is a combination of things; good drivers, healthy budget, good resources, good personell etc etc.

Let us not forget some Newey stinkers from Mclaren and early Red Bull machinery.



How much success would have Byrne had without Schumacher? Let alone if he had to compete against Schumacher driving a Newey car? Just the 2002/2004 titles.

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#40 seahawk

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:08

It is not Newey alone. The last 2 decades of F1 were dominated by 2 designers: Byrne and Newey.

#41 prty

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:15

Let's see
1992 - Nigel Mansell
1993 - Alain Prost
1996 - Damon Hill
1998 - Mika Hakkinen
1999 - Mika Hakkinen
2010 - Sebastian Vettel
2011 - Sebastian Vettel

That's the list of drivers winning the WDC in a Newey car. If anything it shows having a Newey car is not a 100% guarantee for succes. It also shows Newey didn't win a WDC in the first decade of this century. What it does show is, you need a very good driver to win it. Only Mansell and Hill are not double champions, but both were very close to being that (mansell 1986, Hill 2004) Of course it is an advantage to have Newey as your designer but like McLaren is showing this year. You need more.

Newey's strength is combining the right people to get the job done. he does not design the car alone. Just like Briatore at Benetton and Williams, having a team of right people, combined with a strong team and excellent drivers is the key for succes.


Actually, if you take out Prost out, the list shows just the opposite.


#42 Oho

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:15

How much success would have Byrne had without Schumacher? Let alone if he had to compete against Schumacher driving a Newey car? Just the 2002/2004 titles.


Well 94 and 95 Benetton's where Byrne designs as well, and 2001 Ferrari the odds are was distinctly the best car on the grid. Apart from perhaps 95 Schumcher hardly took a single title against dominant Newey design. His Ferrari's were the best or very close to best every single year he took the title.

Edited by Oho, 29 October 2012 - 07:52.


#43 DarthWillie

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:04

Actually, if you take out Prost out, the list shows just the opposite.


Ah, so hakinnen, mansell and Vettel are not great drivers, whatever suits your agenda.
For me only hill isn't one of the all time greats and even he isn't as bad as some make him out to be

#44 decoder

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:18

Well 94 and 95 Benetton's where Byrne designs as well, and 2001 Ferrari the odds are was distinctly the best car on the grid. Apart from perhaps 95 Schumcher hardly took a single title against dominant Newey design. His Ferrari's were the best or very close to best every single year he took the title.



Remove Schumacher from those cars and nobody would have been saying they were the best cars. In 2001 for example, remove Michael and Coulthard wins the title. Put Michael in the Mclaren and he dominates the entire season as he did in the Ferrari. That's how it works. You have to take into account drivers, they are half the equation.

#45 Oho

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:35

Remove Schumacher from those cars and nobody would have been saying they were the best cars. In 2001 for example, remove Michael and Coulthard wins the title. Put Michael in the Mclaren and he dominates the entire season as he did in the Ferrari. That's how it works. You have to take into account drivers, they are half the equation.


Yeah right, on the same token for example in 98 remove Häkkinen and Schumcher wins the title and in 99 remove Häkkinen and Irvine wins the title so Ferrari must in reality have been the best and it was Häkkinen that made the difference right, the rest is mere fluffy conjecture at best.

The really real reality is that as great a driver as Micheal Schumacher was in his prime, he needed very competent car to take the title against likes of Häkkinen and the odds are he had the best, the equal best or very close car for the entirety of his 5 year streak with Ferrari, circular logic such as yours not going to convince me otherwise.

Edited by Oho, 29 October 2012 - 10:24.


#46 prty

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:00

Ah, so hakinnen, mansell and Vettel are not great drivers, whatever suits your agenda.
For me only hill isn't one of the all time greats and even he isn't as bad as some make him out to be


Yeah, in my opinion Hakkinen, Mansell and Vettel (edit: the jury is still out in this one, but for the moment applies) were good drivers but not great nor special.

Edited by prty, 29 October 2012 - 12:05.


#47 Oho

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:06

Yeah, in my opinion Hakkinen, Mansell and Vettel were good drivers but not great nor special.


Well, aah right up there with good ole Alonso.....

#48 prty

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:48

Well, aah right up there with good ole Alonso.....


I guess you are annoyed for the Hakkinen part, but it was obvious the car advantage he had against Schumacher, and despite it, he was given a real run for his money.

#49 Oho

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 13:14

I guess you are annoyed for the Hakkinen part, but it was obvious the car advantage he had against Schumacher, and despite it, he was given a real run for his money.


Indeed, much in the manner of 2006, though Häkkinen never publicly accused his team for sabotaging his title bid.......

#50 drag

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 13:37

Indeed, much in the manner of 2006, though Häkkinen never publicly accused his team for sabotaging his title bid.......


You are way of the mark to compare Hakkinen to Alonso