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Bernie: More European races will go


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#1 encircled

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:23

Ecclestone says more European races will go

Ecclestone though told Sky Sports that we'll likely lose "two or three" more races from the continent.

"We'll keep trying to move forward. We're a world championship," said the 81-year-old.

"We'll probably lose two or three more races in Europe as we have to sort of move on," he added.

When asked if that would leave just four races in Europe, he replied: "Who knows?"



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#2 jeze

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:38

It's time to put the greedy criminal behind bars for stealing government money in way too many Asian countries. Sorry but that's just the way it is.

#3 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:41

It's time to put the greedy criminal behind bars for stealing government money in way too many Asian countries. Sorry but that's just the way it is.


I don't really like Bernie, but he's not stealing anything.

#4 Sakae

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:43

Good, move out. News like that might actully be very good, as it creates opportunity to create something else that I can watch instead.

Edited by Sakae, 27 October 2012 - 17:43.


#5 gm914

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:45

Mere negotiation/scare tactics from the dwarf. Move along people.

#6 whitevisor

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:17

Spa, Monza, Silverstone, Monaco. I can live with those four.


#7 sniper80

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:21

Go away to race in Asia, oil-countries & Russia Bernie. The sooner the better, then I can watch something else than your Red Bull parades :stoned:

#8 Sakae

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:28

I am still thinking about that big push for big savings while hauling all that heavy and expensive gear around the world, while your office-base is located in Europe. Effect of budget cuts to pay for that travelling luxury with under-developped cars sooner or later will have to show up somewhere in some form. Human resources will also need to be probably increased to offset strained primary team, and there will be more impact along the way. I hope this man knows what he is doing, even as I scratch my head.


______________

Just recall what RD said a few years ago on this subject, that he thought (and it was before RRA), that 18 races were max what he/McLaren could handle, and races weren't spread around the globe as they are today.

Edited by Sakae, 27 October 2012 - 19:32.


#9 muramasa

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:32


Monza wont go coz of Ferrari.

Monaco will never go, sadly.

Silverstone wont go either unless BRDC or whoever runs Silverstone seriously piss Bernie off. Silverstone is useful leverage for Bernie, so he will come back to threaten dropping Silverstone from time to time.

Spa will be under threat forever for similar reasons, but with real possibility of getting axed anytime.

About other european circuits, he couldnt care less, so not much hope left.


#10 SpaMaster

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:34

Why? Why should so much favouritism be given to European circuits? Sure, some are good. But are they really better than outside tracks? It's a global sport. It has a right to go to any place. Wanting European weightage is a backward idea, in my opinion. I don't agree with unsustainable F1 business like we see in Korea or China. But, if sustainability criterion is satisfied, the sport should be free to go anywhere. I don't agree with this expectation that it should stay in Europe. Europe as a continent can remain as the one with most races, but that's about it. It may be 6 while others may get a max of 4, but it does not have to be 8, 9 or 10.

#11 Dolph

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:38

The thing is with so many new race tracks being built all over the world the European tracks & facilities do look old and outclassed.

#12 SpaMaster

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:39

I am still thinking about that big push for big savings while hauling all that heavy and expensive gear around the world, while your office-base is located in Europe. Effect of budget cuts to pay for that travelling luxury with under-developped cars sooner or later will have to show up somewhere in some form. Human resources will also need to be probably increased to offset strained primary team, and there will be more impact along the way. I hope this man knows what he is doing, even as I scratch my head.


______________

Just recall what RD said a few years ago on this subject, that he thought (and it was before RRA), that 18 races were max what he/McLaren could handle, and races weren't spread around the globe as they are today.

Well, reduce the gear, reduce the number of people. It makes no real difference to how many people attend the GP or how much revenue is generated from TV. R&D does not have to be centered in Europe. Lot of multinational companies have r&D centers throughout the world, manufacturing units throughout the world. Shipping out just necessary parts on much controlled spending limit would work from anywhere in the world.

#13 Sakae

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:40

The most important markets for Mercedes-Benz Cars in 2011 were Germany with 21% of unit sales, the other markets of Western Europe (24%), the United States (18%) and China (16%).
Yep, piss Germans off by giving them a bird, and paddock will be one "happy" place.

#14 Sakae

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:42

Exporting expertise, resources, and work elsewhere is shortsightedness which, I was hoping, should have been clarified by now.

#15 BRG

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:47

Presumably, the European tracks to go will be the ones in countries where the European Arrest Warrant for Bernie can be employed....

#16 bongofury

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:50

The thing is with so many new race tracks being built all over the world the European tracks & facilities do look old and outclassed.


Agreed, but if new tracks were built that provided good racing opportunities I wouldn't mind so much.


#17 Dolph

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:50

1992: 10 races in Europe, 6 races elsewhere. European races 63%
2012: 8 races in Europe, 12 races elsewhere. European races 40%

Hardly a disaster rigth now if you look at it that way. European races reduced by 2, elsewhere +6.

#18 ensign14

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:52

Why? Why should so much favouritism be given to European circuits?

Because we can be fairly clear that European tracks were not built by indentured slaves.

(Apart from the Nurburgring, of course.)

#19 SpaMaster

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:56

Exporting expertise, resources, and work elsewhere is shortsightedness which, I was hoping, should have been clarified by now.

Short-sightedness to who? We are living in a "global" world. There is no place for local jingoism. When you have a global market, economics are going to dictate a global operation. It's not like only Europeans can design car, have mechanical skills or do mathematics. Anyone skillful can do that, and the skill can be present anywhere. I won't bet against a team operating out of India, Japan or Singapore in the future.

Because we can be fairly clear that European tracks were not built by indentured slaves.

(Apart from the Nurburgring, of course.)

Are you saying European states haven't enslaved/colonized others in the past? Were all those structures purposefully destroyed? Are all those resources returned back to the colonized countries? I don't know why you want to go down this route.

Edited by SpaMaster, 27 October 2012 - 20:00.


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#20 Dolph

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 20:05

Agreed, but if new tracks were built that provided good racing opportunities I wouldn't mind so much.


btu new tracks are designed specifically to allow for overtaking. Long straights that end with hairpins. Overtaking opportunities are small in older tracks compared to new ones.

#21 ensign14

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 20:13

Are you saying European states haven't enslaved/colonized others in the past? Were all those structures purposefully destroyed? Are all those resources returned back to the colonized countries? I don't know why you want to go down this route.

Because that was then and this is now. If you think it acceptable to drive Bangladeshis to suicide by working them in fifty degrees heat seven days per week, then that's your pigeon.

#22 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 20:13

Go away to race in Asia, oil-countries & Russia Bernie. The sooner the better, then I can watch something else than your Red Bull parades :stoned:

Agreed. Al those new Tilke tracks seem to be perfect for Red Bull. They made their move in 2010 because of those tracks and they're doing it again this season.

#23 SUPRAF1

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 20:14

I remember reading somewhere (might have been a magazine) where Frank Williams said Bernie is a brilliant man because these new races he's getting pay a lot of money for the teams :p.

#24 travbrad

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 20:20

The thing is with so many new race tracks being built all over the world the European tracks & facilities do look old and outclassed.


I'd rather watch great racing at Spa than the "class" of Singapore

Of course there are some European tracks that don't provide great racing either though. I wouldn't be terribly disappointed to see Catalunya or Budapest off the calendar. Europe has a lot of great circuits but many people seem to forget that F1 already stopped using most of them awhile ago.

Edited by travbrad, 27 October 2012 - 20:25.


#25 BernieEc

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 20:25

am just wondering which ones will go if they cut euroean races....

Am pretty sure they will like to keep the following


Spa ....considered by many to be a classic
Monza....same as above
Monaco........no way they will drop this......
and maybe barcelona.......obviously its becoming a favourite these days as well


Hungary, German.....british......seem to be the likely culprits that will be chopped

#26 Fastcake

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:02

am just wondering which ones will go if they cut euroean races....

Am pretty sure they will like to keep the following


Spa ....considered by many to be a classic
Monza....same as above
Monaco........no way they will drop this......
and maybe barcelona.......obviously its becoming a favourite these days as well


Hungary, German.....british......seem to be the likely culprits that will be chopped


You actually think the British Grand Prix is likely to be dropped? It's one of the most stable races on the calendar and has a contract until 2020something. Britain and Monaco are probably the safest.

If any are in danger, it would be Spa which has constant financial problems and the Spanish races, due to the state of the country.

#27 BigCHrome

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:05

Why? Why should so much favouritism be given to European circuits? Sure, some are good. But are they really better than outside tracks? It's a global sport. It has a right to go to any place. Wanting European weightage is a backward idea, in my opinion. I don't agree with unsustainable F1 business like we see in Korea or China. But, if sustainability criterion is satisfied, the sport should be free to go anywhere. I don't agree with this expectation that it should stay in Europe. Europe as a continent can remain as the one with most races, but that's about it. It may be 6 while others may get a max of 4, but it does not have to be 8, 9 or 10.


Yes, European tracks are almost always better. Also a majority of F1 fans are from Europe, all teams are based in Europe, and the majority of team members are from Europe.

#28 WatchingF1since4yearsold

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:09

Yes, European tracks are almost always better. Also a majority of F1 fans are from Europe, all teams are based in Europe, and the majority of team members are from Europe.


true, but Bernie only cares for the £, frankly the man would rename the sport "Corporate Funds Racing" if you offered him enough.

money is ruining F1 like it ruins everything in this world, when we kill our own species off over pieces of paper and markets we made, we have only ourselves to blame, I just feel sorry for the other species who live on this planet, they must really ****ing hate what we are doing to it and to ourselves.

#29 krapmeister

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:15

I agree Bernie, it is a World Championship - so please stop making non-european countries start their races at times to suit European audiences...

#30 karlth

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:20

The thing is with so many new race tracks being built all over the world the European tracks & facilities do look old and outclassed.


Yes those new garages look spectacular. I'm seriously looking forward to newer and even classier garages next year.


#31 ensign14

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:21

Yes those new garages look spectacular. I'm seriously looking forward to newer and even classier garages next year.

And grandstands unsullied by anything as scruffy as spectators.

#32 gm914

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:28

I agree Bernie, it is a World Championship - so please stop making non-european countries start their races at times to suit European audiences...

Hell yes. :up:

#33 toxicfusion

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:34

1992: 10 races in Europe, 6 races elsewhere. European races 63%
2012: 8 races in Europe, 12 races elsewhere. European races 40%

Hardly a disaster rigth now if you look at it that way. European races reduced by 2, elsewhere +6.


Only really happened over the last 5-10 years...

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#34 BigCHrome

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:35

true, but Bernie only cares for the £, frankly the man would rename the sport "Corporate Funds Racing" if you offered him enough.

money is ruining F1 like it ruins everything in this world, when we kill our own species off over pieces of paper and markets we made, we have only ourselves to blame, I just feel sorry for the other species who live on this planet, they must really ****ing hate what we are doing to it and to ourselves.


True but money is an unnecessary evil, anyway, that is for a different topic.

I don't think they can decrease European races anymore, because it will cause many Europeans to lose interest in the sport. At the end of the day the sponsors and TV companies care about the European middle class first and foremost.

#35 Fastcake

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 21:48

I agree Bernie, it is a World Championship - so please stop making non-european countries start their races at times to suit European audiences...


I used to not care about you guys if it meant I could watch the race live (sorry :p) but now even if the race is on at 7 instead of some unholy hour I still won't catch it. So really it doesn't make too much difference anymore.

#36 Nonesuch

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 22:04

I don't care about the location of an event I'm watching on TV. If Spa-Francorchamps was in China and called the Tianjin International Circuit I'd still watch the race. Maybe not live (broadcasters take note! ;) ), but I'd watch it.

Edited by Nonesuch, 27 October 2012 - 22:05.


#37 ayali

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 22:39

I agree Bernie, it is a World Championship - so please stop making non-european countries start their races at times to suit European audiences...

Quite the contrary for me, I like my racing at convenient times. 2pm CET please :up:

But by all means have the races outside of Europe, sauf a few classic venues
The world is becoming a very small place, visiting Singapore and Abu Dhabi GP was really a better experience than the muddy bankings of the old Hockenheim.



#38 Lights

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 22:52

I don't mind as long as the good European tracks stay. It does feel a bit premature however, in most of the countries F1 recently started going to, simply no one seems to care.

#39 wepmob2000

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 23:12

I wouldn't care - if - they actually took F1 to countries where they actually give a shit about the sport / and or the locals can actually afford to attend the race.

Look at some of the additions to the calendar - China, India, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, and South Korea.... can anyone actually say any of these races have added to the appeal of F1? With the possible exception of China since its races at least seem to be entertaining sometimes, what has the sport gained? Empty grandstands... local apathy....tedious races...dismal circuits....? For some reason the Singapore GP seems popular with fans too, but I can't understand why, the actual race is invariably boring beyond belief?

If for one second Ecclestone was genuine about F1 being a world championship, then why is there only one South American race, Argentina and Mexico are obvious candidates, Brazil could easily support a second race, why not return to Kyalami? How can a world championship avoid an entire continent?

Personally I'm growing increasingly tired of F1, while its always been a 'rich' sport, the business aspect of it is now far too great IMHO, and while I often doubted the 'sport' element of it, I fail to see any sport at all in modern F1. I can't be bothered with another tedious Vettel lights to flag snoozefest on another crappy circuit tomorrow, I'll be watching something else....


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#40 wepmob2000

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 23:16

true, but Bernie only cares for the £, frankly the man would rename the sport "Corporate Funds Racing" if you offered him enough.

money is ruining F1 like it ruins everything in this world, when we kill our own species off over pieces of paper and markets we made, we have only ourselves to blame, I just feel sorry for the other species who live on this planet, they must really ****ing hate what we are doing to it and to ourselves.

Couldn't agree more :up:


#41 wepmob2000

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 23:22

Why? Why should so much favouritism be given to European circuits? Sure, some are good. But are they really better than outside tracks? It's a global sport. It has a right to go to any place. Wanting European weightage is a backward idea, in my opinion. I don't agree with unsustainable F1 business like we see in Korea or China. But, if sustainability criterion is satisfied, the sport should be free to go anywhere. I don't agree with this expectation that it should stay in Europe. Europe as a continent can remain as the one with most races, but that's about it. It may be 6 while others may get a max of 4, but it does not have to be 8, 9 or 10.


This completely ignores the fact that F1 is predominately a European/South American/Australasian sport, always has been, and remains so. Your argument is analogous to telling India that half its cricket matches will henceforth be held in Bolivia. And sadly for your argument, most European F1 venues are vastly better than the dross we see in S.Korea, India, Abu Dhabi, etc.....



#42 ryan86

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:14

I don't have a problem with globalisation as long isn't depriving countries where there is a fanbase whilst giving another a race where there is none.

An example I used another forum was how some global commentators were calling for London to try and get an Olympics in the 2030's, because what we had were a good games in front of huge/capacity crowds full of sports mad and generally fair fans. Now if that doesn't happen, I'm OK with it. These things be shared around, as long as they are being shared around in locales where this happens. Quite hard to predict, but for instance, say Dehli were to go in for the Olympics. The Commonwealths a few years ago were plagued with low crowds and so you get the impression that whilst Dehli and India have their merits, they don't actually appear to have been interested in that event they were given.

Also, if these countries are going in for a race, they need to try and build a motor racing culture there. Perhaps because it's so far away I'm missing it, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

#43 goingthedistance

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:24

I wouldn't care - if - they actually took F1 to countries where they actually give a shit about the sport / and or the locals can actually afford to attend the race.

Look at some of the additions to the calendar - China, India, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, and South Korea.... can anyone actually say any of these races have added to the appeal of F1? With the possible exception of China since its races at least seem to be entertaining sometimes, what has the sport gained? Empty grandstands... local apathy....tedious races...dismal circuits....? For some reason the Singapore GP seems popular with fans too, but I can't understand why, the actual race is invariably boring beyond belief?

If for one second Ecclestone was genuine about F1 being a world championship, then why is there only one South American race, Argentina and Mexico are obvious candidates, Brazil could easily support a second race, why not return to Kyalami? How can a world championship avoid an entire continent?

Personally I'm growing increasingly tired of F1, while its always been a 'rich' sport, the business aspect of it is now far too great IMHO, and while I often doubted the 'sport' element of it, I fail to see any sport at all in modern F1. I can't be bothered with another tedious Vettel lights to flag snoozefest on another crappy circuit tomorrow, I'll be watching something else....


Very well said. The sport should go where the passion is. Why there is only one race in South America when we have so many drivers from that continent and a rich history there confounds me.

The nasty truth is that F1 is in places like Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, China, Korea and even India because the government - or significant commercial interest groups - want the sport in the country to provide profile to their nation or brand. But the people in these places don't seem at all interested, certainly not enough to pay Bernie's insane entry fees.

Sadly I suspect a GP held in Auckland would get more spectators than Delhi or Korea and NZ has a population of just four million.

Bernie is a canny businessman but I don't think he's really operating any longer in the sport's long term interest. He's creaming his kick backs from Tilke for commissioning these bits and pieces tracks that have no soul, tracks that will almost certainly be unused by F1 cars in a decades time.

#44 Sakae

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:35

Short-sightedness to who? We are living in a "global" world. There is no place for local jingoism. When you have a global market, economics are going to dictate a global operation. It's not like only Europeans can design car, have mechanical skills or do mathematics. Anyone skillful can do that, and the skill can be present anywhere. I won't bet against a team operating out of India, Japan or Singapore in the future.

Are you saying European states haven't enslaved/colonized others in the past? Were all those structures purposefully destroyed? Are all those resources returned back to the colonized countries? I don't know why you want to go down this route.

Wow, just wow. I have no other response.

#45 Sakae

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:38

Bernie... He's creaming his kick backs from Tilke for commissioning these bits and pieces tracks that have no soul, tracks that will almost certainly be unused by F1 cars in a decades time.


Damn Tilke! Down with Tilke then.

#46 Wuzak

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 00:38

The problem is, as far as I can tell, is Bernie is just moving from a European based series to an Asian based series.

There are too many Asian races already. We don't need more.

There are other places they could go - South Africa, Mexico. Maybe in the future they could once again race in Tripoli?

#47 nomi

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:03

Spa which is the best Euro based circuit, why are they losing spectators there?

#48 Sakae

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:33

Spa which is the best Euro based circuit, why are they losing spectators there?

Good question, but one of potential explantion could be, that I think people are more budget and savings oriented these days than in the past. Average USA household carries in average almost USD16000 of debt on their credit cards, whereas a lot of EU countries do like to pay cash only, and if money is short, no debt will be created. I do not have unfortunately stats on debt in Belgium.

Lastly, and maybe more significantly, maybe we see the shift how people engage with the sport; while race track visits are becoming far too expensive for the whole family, whereas TV combined with the internet is a convenient substitute. I prefer it that way these days, yet in the past I have attended a lot of races every year in person.

Edited by Sakae, 28 October 2012 - 08:41.


#49 alfa1

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:41

Ecclestone says more European races will go




More like...
"Ecclestone says European countries dont have enough money to pay me $$$ any more".




#50 SpaMaster

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:33

This completely ignores the fact that F1 is predominately a European/South American/Australasian sport, always has been, and remains so. Your argument is analogous to telling India that half its cricket matches will henceforth be held in Bolivia.

Not even close. Think about it.

And sadly for your argument, most European F1 venues are vastly better than the dross we see in S.Korea, India, Abu Dhabi, etc.....

Being better venues has little to do with sustaining the sport. Singapore may be a stupid track, but it brings more to sustain the sport than most European venues. TV money is a big player in F1 revenue. When that is the case anyone can watch F1 on TV whereever it is held. Besides,many European tracks are not being flocked with fans like people talk here. Talk is not being walked.