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Mclaren MP4-27 Part IV


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#1 Mandzipop

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 00:11

The previous thread has been closed down due to technical reasons.

Please continue the conversation in this thread. Check the last thread here http://forums.autosp...p;#entry6001538


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#2 gm914

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 00:36

Part IV ? Maybe we should name this thread A New Hope.

#3 Fastcake

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 00:43

Part IV ? Maybe we should name this thread A New Hope.


Hehehe. Part I was certainly pretty rubbish  ;)

Just give us something to smile about tomorrow McLaren. Please!

#4 whitevisor

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:53

Somebody in the previous thread was talking about Mclaren doing Q3 on hards.

Quite frankly.. it won't work. The hards will need even more laps to heat up than the softs. By the time they are up to temperature they will be slower by at least 3 tenths in Mclaren's case, and they will have laps taken out of them. When the race begins the same problem is going to come up. So, you will be some odd places down the grid and will have to start on tyres with many laps taken out of them, and they will be out of the temp range in the early laps.. Not workable on a smooth track like this.

Edited by whitevisor, 03 November 2012 - 01:54.


#5 argiriano

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:52

Somebody in the previous thread was talking about Mclaren doing Q3 on hards.

Quite frankly.. it won't work. The hards will need even more laps to heat up than the softs. By the time they are up to temperature they will be slower by at least 3 tenths in Mclaren's case, and they will have laps taken out of them. When the race begins the same problem is going to come up. So, you will be some odd places down the grid and will have to start on tyres with many laps taken out of them, and they will be out of the temp range in the early laps.. Not workable on a smooth track like this.

So are you saying that puting the Primes (Mediums, not Hards) on lap 20 for example will be better, than starting on them?! I don`t agree, cause maybe you forget that when the race starts the track temp will be maybe 8 - 10 degrees higher than when the times for the tire change will come. So heating up the Primes should be harder latter in the race than strating on them and the overall pace over the race distance should be better when starting on Primes. McLaren showed heating problems with both compounds with the time difference between both compounds much lesser compaired to the rest. So using harder tire on hotter track will be better in my oppinion, and you shouldn`t forget the other benefits alternative strategie brings such as:
- laps in clean air at the end of the first (and maybe only) stint with tires at it`s best
- better heating for the second stint when you are on Options and the rest on Primes
- better grip latter in the race when the others are on Primes and the temps fell off even more

But it`s all relative, and as I sad at the end we are talking McLaren here and they don`t do alternatives they do what computers say... sadly.


edit for PS: The front wing still goes backwards at high speed judging by this pic so it`s not the new measuring that make McLaren relatively slower at the last couple of races.
http://f1zoom.fx1.nl...a...1162&full=1

Edited by argiriano, 03 November 2012 - 09:59.


#6 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:08

Good Luck McLaren boys!!!!

I had a dream this night!! Pole!

#7 Shiroo

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:59

Why the heck, McLaren have SAME PACE on both tyres? is there any point of them running on soft during qualifications? Cause as far as I can see nobody gonna be faster than McLaren even in such situation

#8 jrg19

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:03

Double podium on the cards :up:

#9 Masenco

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:03

Why the heck, McLaren have SAME PACE on both tyres? is there any point of them running on soft during qualifications? Cause as far as I can see nobody gonna be faster than McLaren even in such situation


Nobody really improved considerably on the option tyres.
Will be interesting to see what tyres people choose to qualify on if the changing track temps dont sort out the options

#10 superdelphinus

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:05

Fuel levels etc

#11 Mc_Silver

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:05

Red Bull's advantage seem to be is that they use option tyres better than any other car. We barely improved our timies with soft tyres which is strange

#12 Shiroo

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:06

Nobody really improved considerably on the option tyres.
Will be interesting to see what tyres people choose to qualify on if the changing track temps dont sort out the options

I disagree, Lotuses improved 1sec compared to Hard tyres. Also Webber improved by about 0.8, also Alonso (around 0.5), Hulkenberg (1sec).
+ Hamilton were setting his best times on hard tyres in like 8 lap stint.

Edited by Shiroo, 03 November 2012 - 11:06.


#13 Vesuvius

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:11

McLaren sucks with soft tyres just like they did at India. I think Vettel will get the pole.

#14 superdelphinus

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:18

Yeah I don't really get how that happens. The other way around I could understand in terms of heating the tyre up quickly enough.

#15 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:33

Double podium on the cards :up:



Good For WCC boys!!

#16 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:35

Low temps at qualy hour (14:00h in Spain), will be the key!!

Must Lewis will qualify on prime rubber?

#17 Alx09

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:44

I'm sure they will find some way to screw it up :p

But looking good! Lewis is a beast around this circuit, and the car looks strong.

#18 SamH123

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:26

I always get confused, is it the tires they set the fastest time on in Q3 that they have to start the race on?

They might as well do a run on softs and a run on mediums during Q3 maybe

#19 bauss

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:36

very worried about their inability to switch on the softs...will only get worse when qualifying starts and temps fall...

their case has been a case of "but" all season.

At first, car is fast "but" pitstops and track operations are rubbish...

Then car was fast "but" development has lagged.

Then car is fast "but" rubbish in wet conditions.

Then car is fast "but" very unreliable.

Now car is fast but has a problem switching soft tires.

Depressing and frustrating season.. even if we manage pole or win this weekend, won't hide the fact. , I think I've finally lost "the faith" in the last few months.

Edited by bauss, 03 November 2012 - 12:36.


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#20 Nahnever

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:40

Lewis Pulling 6 G's on some braking zones :drunk:

Edited by Nahnever, 03 November 2012 - 12:50.


#21 JonathanProc

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:48

Lewis Pulling 6 G's on some corners :drunk:


Under braking. Not during the corner.

#22 Nahnever

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:49

Under braking. Not during the corner.

That's what I meant, yeah lol.

#23 Anonymous

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:06

This weekend is ours! :love:

#24 mlsnoopy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:08

That is the diffrence that a driver can make.
Whitmarsh must go. It's unbelivable that he managed to lose the best driver.

#25 jrg19

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:10

Mega job by the McLaren guys, shame its all to late.

#26 Shiroo

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:12

How the f*** McLaren can be so dumb to keep a driver that is SOOOO inferior to his teammate?

#27 10e10

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:16

Good job today. A shame we didn't manage to get into this form in the earlier races, now I'm afraid is too late. Just like to know that Lewis clearly makes the difference in the MP4-27, he did it all year, and the current place he is in the WDC isn't just to the job he has done all year. Very sad to see him leaving, when he is one clear step ahead of Button, and if it wasn't for him, I guess people wouldn't be saying that he had the faster car all year, because he didn't, he was the faster driver for most of the year,and the development and the operational side of the team was a disappointment to say the least. A clear wasted opportunity this year. I fear for next year, but I will always be pushing for this team.

#28 Peter Perfect

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:19

Button very downbeat (unsurprisingly) after qualification. With the dipping temperatures when the sun went down I wonder if the tyres played a part again in a loss of performance? Potentially the car is still on the edge with tyre management and Hamiltons more aggressive style is getting them into the window. Hopefully next years tyres will live up to their rumours and have a much larger temperature window.

#29 kedia990

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:22

That is the diffrence that a driver can make.
Whitmarsh must go. It's unbelivable that he managed to lose the best driver.

:up: Toss that spanner out.

#30 study

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:24

Lewis short geared again. Mclaren screw up again?

#31 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:25

if it wasn't for him, I guess people wouldn't be saying that he had the faster car all year, because he didn't

Yes, because Button has spent the entire year being a second slower. Come on now. Lewis is making a difference here no doubt, but this isn't representative of the whole season.

#32 amppatel

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:26

Yes, because Button has spent the entire year being a second slower. Come on now. Lewis is making a difference here no doubt, but this isn't representative of the whole season.


But it is...


#33 kedia990

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:28

Lewis short geared again. Mclaren screw up again?


Slightly short gearing on 7. Better for race when you aren't on low fuel with DRS open.

#34 10e10

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:30

Yes, because Button has spent the entire year being a second slower. Come on now. Lewis is making a difference here no doubt, but this isn't representative of the whole season.


Since China Button only had a real good weekend, Spa, look at Button's championship and think how fast you would consider the McLaren to be from China onward if you exclude Lewis' results.

#35 amppatel

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:36

Since China Button only had a real good weekend, Spa, look at Button's championship and think how fast you would consider the McLaren to be from China onward if you exclude Lewis' results.


Couldn't agree more, but we don't have to imagine this - it will happen next year!

#36 10e10

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:38

Couldn't agree more, but we don't have to imagine this - it will happen next year!


And I fear for it!

#37 robefc

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:41

How the f*** McLaren can be so dumb to keep a driver that is SOOOO inferior to his teammate?


Disregarding your exaggeration, I don't think anyone would argue that lewis and JB are the best driving pairing on the grid... and that was the pairing macca wanted for next year.



#38 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:47

Since China Button only had a real good weekend, Spa, look at Button's championship and think how fast you would consider the McLaren to be from China onward if you exclude Lewis' results.

You cant just exclude Lewis' results. I judge the car based on how they do relative to each other. I think apart from the past couple races, Mclaren has been the quickest this season still. Not saying Lewis doesn't make a difference, he does, but other drivers in other cars make a difference, too.

#39 10e10

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:50

You cant just exclude Lewis' results. I judge the car based on how they do relative to each other. I think apart from the past couple races, Mclaren has been the quickest this season still. Not saying Lewis doesn't make a difference, he does, but other drivers in other cars make a difference, too.


Yes of course other drivers make the difference, but in that case the Ferrari should be considered the faster car during the middle of the season, based on Alonso's performances.

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#40 onewingedangel

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:51

On a circuit where you can gain a lot of time late breaking and taking unusual quali lines Hamilton can really nail it on a quali lap, whereas Button doesn't seem to be able to drive different enough from his race style (adapt) to really get a 1 lap time - but in the race where you drive more conventionally, Button will be right there.

If Vettel gets a penalty I'd expect a podium consisting of:

1.Hamilton
2.Webber
3.Button

Edited by onewingedangel, 03 November 2012 - 14:52.


#41 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:52

Yes of course other drivers make the difference, but in that case the Ferrari should be considered the faster car during the middle of the season, based on Alonso's performances.

I thought we were talking about the season as a whole, but if you want to cherry pick little parts of the season to keep believing what you want to believe, go ahead.

#42 argiriano

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:54

That is the diffrence that a driver can make.
Whitmarsh must go. It's unbelivable that he managed to lose the best driver.

Antony Davidson thinks the same. When asked from where McLaren find that speed today he just smiled, pointed Lewis and sad: I think it`s him.
Damon Hill seems to agree with him too.

But to asking Whitmarsh head again is stupid he did what he could possibly do and Lewis just choose his own way, so please stop this.



#43 10e10

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:56

I thought we were talking about the season as a whole, but if you want to cherry pick little parts of the season to keep believing what you want to believe, go ahead.


We are, just trying to say that the McLaren wasn't clearly the faster car as some suggest, and I'm comparing the performances from Button and Hamilton and saying that people say that based on Hamilton's performances alone.

Edited by 10e10, 03 November 2012 - 14:57.


#44 10e10

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:00

Antony Davidson thinks the same. When asked from where McLaren find that speed today he just smiled, pointed Lewis and sad: I think it`s him.
Damon Hill seems to agree with him too.

But to asking Whitmarsh head again is stupid he did what he could possibly do and Lewis just choose his own way, so please stop this.


Agreed. If there is one to blame, is Lewis himself, he is leaving because he wants to. A big loss for the team IMO, but that's the way it is.

#45 f1fastestlap

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:01

Agreed. If there is one to blame, is Lewis himself, he is leaving because he wants to. A big loss for the team IMO, but that's the way it is.


Of course, team making mistake after mistake has nothing to do with it...

#46 10e10

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:06

Of course, team making mistake after mistake has nothing to do with it...


Yes, because Mercedes is doing so much better this season, I think Schumacher agrees with me.

#47 Mc_Silver

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:07

Button's smoothness killed him in S3 today. Agressive drivers who like throwing the car made the difference today. Lewis, Alonso, Maldonado, Kimi and Perez (especially Lewis, Maldonado and Perez) were much better than their team mates in S3 today. Especially the biggest difference was between Lewis and Button. I think Lewis is 0.4 tenths of a second faster than Button in pure speed. However in tracks like Hungary, Canada, Singapore, Abu Dhabi which are suited to Lewis's style he brings extra 2-3 tenths from nowhere. For next year, we have to hope perez shows some good speed in qualifying

Edited by Mc_Silver, 03 November 2012 - 15:08.


#48 Ashitank

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:07

Hind sight Wishmart needs the boot , since he became team boss countless times posters in this thread have cried for Ron to come back , I mean there has to be some thing about why Wishmart attracts dislike from so many team followers..

#49 f1fastestlap

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:08

Yes, because Mercedes is doing so much better this season, I think Schumacher agrees with me.


He's with McLaren now not Mercedes. So you can stop deflecting the issue...

#50 alg7_munif

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:08

Somehow I feel that if the team compromise for Button, Lewis will suffer but he is still comparable to Button's pace but if the team compromise for Lewis, Button will look so bad since Lewis will be much faster.