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Mclaren MP4-27 Part IV


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#701 KOMORI

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 21:44

Great drive by JB today: in changeable conditions he really is one of the best out there.

Also a great drive by Lewis, sad to see him exit Mclaren with yet another DNF :(

Bittersweet end to a season that promised sooooo much, yet will forever be remembered as a series of costly cock ups that hamstrung what should have seen a WDC/WCC double heading to the MTC.

Gutted.

I guess that with minimal regulation changes for next year the '28 should be competitive, here's hoping Checo continues to improve and JB, like a fine Scotch, gets better with each year :)

I'm more than sad to see Lewis leave, and will be whoring in the W04 thread as well as here lol :)

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#702 Fastcake

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 21:54

At least we finished up the year with a win, that's something :) :up:

Such a shame how pit mistakes and bad reliability cost a very credible shot at both titles this year. Even with the big tyre lottery in the first half of the season, where the car often suffered, we were still in there. Year that could have been :(

#703 Anonymous

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:25

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#704 Lemans

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:20

Goodbye MP4/27. You were beautiful.



#705 SR388

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:28

I will miss you McLaren. Someday may our paths meet again. Best of luck to the fans for next year.

#706 PARAZAR

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:28

McLaren Brazilian GP review, interviews from JB, LH and MW.

http://www.mclaren.c...lian-grand-prix

Also an interesting fact for JB. "And here’s one for the train-spotters: Jenson has now scored more podium places in the three seasons he’s driven for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes [25] than he’d scored in the 10 seasons he’d driven for his previous teams [24]."



#707 10e10

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:38

A shame this car couldn't bring a WC, it deserved it. Yesterday was a glimpse of the all year of McLaren, good performance by the drivers, Hamilton out by external factors and when one car wins or is on podium the other DNFs. Quite sad actually, almost like 2005. There is always next year. One final word to Lewis, as I wish him the best of luck and hope he returns one day to McLaren, the sooner the better.

#708 JRizzle86

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:32

Goodbye MP4/27. You were beautiful.


Pity we never gave her a name really. Fast but fragile.

#709 Hyatt

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:44

McLaren Brazilian GP review, interviews from JB, LH and MW.

http://www.mclaren.c...lian-grand-prix

Also an interesting fact for JB. "And here’s one for the train-spotters: Jenson has now scored more podium places in the three seasons he’s driven for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes [25] than he’d scored in the 10 seasons he’d driven for his previous teams [24]."


Yes, MW, keep on sugarcoating .... your rivalling Haug now when it comes to this ... 1 CC in 10 years ... try sugoarcoating this ...

#710 cooper

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:48

Pity we never gave her a name really. Fast but fragile.

Very fragile, it seemed that someone only needed to bump her and it would fall to bits! That RB must be made of rubber to survive the Brazilian GP, what a great car we had this year. It is just a shame about the reliability issues, it could have been a McLaren great :up:

Oh well, bring on the MP4-28 (and the is it a hole, or a reflection conversations haha)

#711 hotstickyslick

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:52

So the car finished behind Ferrari in the constructors championship.

#712 peroa

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:04

So the car finished behind Ferrari in the constructors championship.

That is quite an achievement, isn't it?

#713 F1ultimate

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:13

Any idea when Mclaren usual hold their sale in the online store? I'm ready to pull the gun on discounted Lewis Hamilton merchandise.

#714 JRizzle86

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:07



:rotfl:


That tooned episode was a great way to end it. The Ron part was especially cool.

#715 TurboF1

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:17

I will remember this year as one of the biggest failures in McLaren's F1 history. To win absolutely zilch with the fastest car from the word go is quite astonishing. But it can only get better and I hope that some more relaxed environment with Button and Perez will be the basis for a much more successful 2013.



Not only did they not win, but THIRD (!!!!!) THIRD in the WCC with the outright fastest car! This car was easily good enough to walk both championships with at least 2 races to spare. McLaren have outdone themselves here. I didnt think they couldve done any wore than 2005, How very wrong I was.

#716 JRizzle86

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:39

Not only did they not win, but THIRD (!!!!!) THIRD in the WCC with the outright fastest car! This car was easily good enough to walk both championships with at least 2 races to spare. McLaren have outdone themselves here. I didnt think they couldve done any wore than 2005, How very wrong I was.


I think people overstate the fact the MP4-27 was the fastest this year. It was in all likelihood the fastest but not at every single race. Red Bull were fastest at a number of tracks this year and Ferrari also. You cannot compare this season to 2005. 2005 was between Renault and McLaren, this season at time was a free for all between multiple teams. You have to remember 6 different teams won this season, only 3 won in 05, the single Ferrari win was a bit of a walkover considering only 6 cars competed.

#717 TurboF1

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 16:04

I think people overstate the fact the MP4-27 was the fastest this year. It was in all likelihood the fastest but not at every single race. Red Bull were fastest at a number of tracks this year and Ferrari also. You cannot compare this season to 2005. 2005 was between Renault and McLaren, this season at time was a free for all between multiple teams. You have to remember 6 different teams won this season, only 3 won in 05, the single Ferrari win was a bit of a walkover considering only 6 cars competed.


In terms of outright speed, over the course of the season, overall the car to have was the MP4-27 (in Lewis's hands anyway) Yes, there were a few races where the RB8 was quicker, but over the course of the season as a whole, even including the midway slump where Button was clueless on how to set up and use the car which may have hampered its development, It was still the best. Frankly, a big part of the reason there were 7 different winners in the first 7 races WAS McLarens sheer incompetence when it came to pitstops/strategy and operational errors. They tried their hardest to make sure their car advantage wouldnt translate to points, and boy did it work out. Thanks McLaren, your idiocy and amateur display overall has given us all a GREAT season as general fans. TOo bad you didnt win shit to show for it, and ended up in an embarrasing third position in the WCC with the quickest car.

#718 Lazy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 16:09

In terms of outright speed, over the course of the season, overall the car to have was the MP4-27 (in Lewis's hands anyway) Yes, there were a few races where the RB8 was quicker, but over the course of the season as a whole, even including the midway slump where Button was clueless on how to set up and use the car which may have hampered its development, It was still the best. Frankly, a big part of the reason there were 7 different winners in the first 7 races WAS McLarens sheer incompetence when it came to pitstops/strategy and operational errors. They tried their hardest to make sure their car advantage wouldnt translate to points, and boy did it work out. Thanks McLaren, your idiocy and amateur display overall has given us all a GREAT season as general fans. TOo bad you didnt win shit to show for it, and ended up in an embarrasing third position in the WCC with the quickest car.


Were the rest of the team on holiday?

#719 TurboF1

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 16:32

Were the rest of the team on holiday?



http://www.jamesalle...n-buttons-form/

http://f1usateam.com...ttons-struggles

I think Canada was very interesting because fundamentally we run the same car for both drivers and they both have the same parts available," Roberts said. "Although we allow them to adapt the set-up to their driving style, clearly we had something fundamentally different in terms of the tyre performance and car performance.

Plus with Jenson having put his hand up in the last 3/4 of the season saying it was ultimately down to him to get a setup that works for him, I'm sure that had nothing to do with his issues though right? You can't have it both ways. When he nailed the setup in Spa, and his teammate CHOSE THE WRONG PATH EVEN THOUGH HE HAD THE SAME PARTS AVAILABLE, it was crowed from the rooftops. Jenson got it right, Lewis got it wrong. So how about the rest of the year? You cant have it both ways. Sorry.

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#720 Lazy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 17:54

In terms of outright speed, over the course of the season, overall the car to have was the MP4-27 (in Lewis's hands anyway) Yes, there were a few races where the RB8 was quicker, but over the course of the season as a whole, even including the midway slump where Button was clueless on how to set up and use the car which may have hampered its development, It was still the best. Frankly, a big part of the reason there were 7 different winners in the first 7 races WAS McLarens sheer incompetence when it came to pitstops/strategy and operational errors. They tried their hardest to make sure their car advantage wouldnt translate to points, and boy did it work out. Thanks McLaren, your idiocy and amateur display overall has given us all a GREAT season as general fans. TOo bad you didnt win shit to show for it, and ended up in an embarrasing third position in the WCC with the quickest car.



http://www.jamesalle...n-buttons-form/

http://f1usateam.com...ttons-struggles

I think Canada was very interesting because fundamentally we run the same car for both drivers and they both have the same parts available," Roberts said. "Although we allow them to adapt the set-up to their driving style, clearly we had something fundamentally different in terms of the tyre performance and car performance.

Plus with Jenson having put his hand up in the last 3/4 of the season saying it was ultimately down to him to get a setup that works for him, I'm sure that had nothing to do with his issues though right? You can't have it both ways. When he nailed the setup in Spa, and his teammate CHOSE THE WRONG PATH EVEN THOUGH HE HAD THE SAME PARTS AVAILABLE, it was crowed from the rooftops. Jenson got it right, Lewis got it wrong. So how about the rest of the year? You cant have it both ways. Sorry.


Nethertheless, I'm sure if the engineers knew of a solution they would have used it and I doubt Button was saying no to anybody after Canada.

#721 WitnessX

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 17:58

http://www.jamesalle...n-buttons-form/

http://f1usateam.com...ttons-struggles

I think Canada was very interesting because fundamentally we run the same car for both drivers and they both have the same parts available," Roberts said. "Although we allow them to adapt the set-up to their driving style, clearly we had something fundamentally different in terms of the tyre performance and car performance.

Plus with Jenson having put his hand up in the last 3/4 of the season saying it was ultimately down to him to get a setup that works for him, I'm sure that had nothing to do with his issues though right? You can't have it both ways. When he nailed the setup in Spa, and his teammate CHOSE THE WRONG PATH EVEN THOUGH HE HAD THE SAME PARTS AVAILABLE, it was crowed from the rooftops. Jenson got it right, Lewis got it wrong. So how about the rest of the year? You cant have it both ways. Sorry.


The quote from Roberts was on the 20th, on the 23rd Sam Michael reported that they had found the problem. Jenson had to change brake materials for the weekend, and because of the limited running they obviously did not get the brake cooling correct, causing the rear tyres to overheat and degrade.
http://www.auto-moto...en-5095249.html

The drivers are responsible to report back the "feel" of the car so its suits their particular styles of cornering and braking. Translating that in mechanical changes and checking durability of tyres for example, comes into the domain of the engineers. The drivers have contrasting driving styles, which leads to contrasting car "feel", so such things as suspension, toe-in, camber and ride height and weight distribution may differ.

With the sensitivity of the Pirelli "Hero-Zero" tyres it can be that your preferred settings may not be compatible with the getting the tyres to work and have search for a compromise solution. It may just be that your preferred settings and style are compatible with the tyres. With the concept change at Barcelona on the '27 most of the information gained at pre-season test became redundant. A driver with the engineers may work and get a happy balance at a particular fuel loading, tyre type, tyre condition, and track/weather conditions but this may vary as the conditions change. It is up to the engineers to devise ways of testing and coming up ideas of overcoming such things as degradation and performance instability, not the drivers.

Jenson rarely blames the team, that does not mean the engineers are absolved of responsibility.

On that tack, its interesting that Jenson said that the 2013 were quicker to get to get into working range and had more grip than the 2012. The 2013 front tyres felt "different" to any he had used before.


#722 TurboF1

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 18:05

Nethertheless, I'm sure if the engineers knew of a solution they would have used it and I doubt Button was saying no to anybody after Canada.



Im sure he did his best, but at some point surely you have to acknowledge he had a role to play in not getting the most out of what was obviously a very competitive car. I mean, his teammate was putting it on the front row and winning/challenging for podiums during his slump, so its clear that the car cannot be fully blamed, as the potential it had, seeing as he had access to the same parts, and even the data down to the last millimeter from someone who could show him how its done. So what was stopping him? Lack of adaptability? Not giving good enough feedback? Not enough setup knowledge? It was obviously something... hmm

#723 Lazy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 18:11

Im sure he did his best, but at some point surely you have to acknowledge he had a role to play in not getting the most out of what was obviously a very competitive car. I mean, his teammate was putting it on the front row and winning/challenging for podiums during his slump, so its clear that the car cannot be fully blamed, as the potential it had, seeing as he had access to the same parts, and even the data down to the last millimeter from someone who could show him how its done. So what was stopping him? Lack of adaptability? Not giving good enough feedback? Not enough setup knowledge? It was obviously something... hmm


A role to play for sure but not just down to him, see WitnessX's post for more details.

#724 TurboF1

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 18:21

The quote from Roberts was on the 20th, on the 23rd Sam Michael reported that they had found the problem. Jenson had to change brake materials for the weekend, and because of the limited running they obviously did not get the brake cooling correct, causing the rear tyres to overheat and degrade.
http://www.auto-moto...en-5095249.html

The drivers are responsible to report back the "feel" of the car so its suits their particular styles of cornering and braking. Translating that in mechanical changes and checking durability of tyres for example, comes into the domain of the engineers. The drivers have contrasting driving styles, which leads to contrasting car "feel", so such things as suspension, toe-in, camber and ride height and weight distribution may differ.

With the sensitivity of the Pirelli "Hero-Zero" tyres it can be that your preferred settings may not be compatible with the getting the tyres to work and have search for a compromise solution. It may just be that your preferred settings and style are compatible with the tyres. With the concept change at Barcelona on the '27 most of the information gained at pre-season test became redundant. A driver with the engineers may work and get a happy balance at a particular fuel loading, tyre type, tyre condition, and track/weather conditions but this may vary as the conditions change. It is up to the engineers to devise ways of testing and coming up ideas of overcoming such things as degradation and performance instability, not the drivers.

Jenson rarely blames the team, that does not mean the engineers are absolved of responsibility.

On that tack, its interesting that Jenson said that the 2013 were quicker to get to get into working range and had more grip than the 2012. The 2013 front tyres felt "different" to any he had used before.



So what happened in Barcelona? Monaco? Valencia?

Edited by TurboF1, 26 November 2012 - 18:22.


#725 WitnessX

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 19:21

So what happened in Barcelona? Monaco? Valencia?


At Valencia (after the Canada disaster) they reverted to an earlier set-up and it was ok. According to Whitmarsh he had a "rogue set of tyres" on his Q3 attempt.

At Barcelona the car was fine when fueled (he was held up by Vettel for the first part of the race). The problem was the car wasn't working with low fuel (qualifying and the last set of tyres went off after only about 12 laps).

At Monaco he was doing quicker laps in FP3 with more fuel than in qualifying. Again it appears that the car worked differently when they took out the fuel.

IIRC He said there were 3 races where (in hindsight) they went in the wrong direction, I assume that was Barcelona, Canada and Monaco.

#726 JRizzle86

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 21:05

In terms of outright speed, over the course of the season, overall the car to have was the MP4-27 (in Lewis's hands anyway) Yes, there were a few races where the RB8 was quicker, but over the course of the season as a whole, even including the midway slump where Button was clueless on how to set up and use the car which may have hampered its development, It was still the best. Frankly, a big part of the reason there were 7 different winners in the first 7 races WAS McLarens sheer incompetence when it came to pitstops/strategy and operational errors. They tried their hardest to make sure their car advantage wouldnt translate to points, and boy did it work out. Thanks McLaren, your idiocy and amateur display overall has given us all a GREAT season as general fans. TOo bad you didnt win shit to show for it, and ended up in an embarrasing third position in the WCC with the quickest car.


Second is the first loser, whether it be second or third it doesn't make much difference.

#727 ElDictatore

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 21:42

Obviously it was one of the worst years for McLaren, but there are some things that just came into play. For example the tire lottery was a massive unknown for everybody, not only McLaren. The wet condition performance was an unknown too. But you have to see some positive signs from this season. After 3 consecutive seasons of Red Bull giving the development path for everybody, McLaren could set the benchmark with the coanda exhaust this season. They even were beaten to death by some here for having the low nose/low chassis. They were competitive at the end again, although they had several set backs performancewise this season, so in-season development was pleasing. And since next year the regulations stay pretty much the same, I suspect the MP4-28 at the top. Hell, they even got it together at the pit stops finally and set one fast pit stop after the other. So cut them some slack, they underperformed, they know it and they will try to make it better.

Btw. about Buttons problem. Gary Paffett said to BBC after the Abu Dhabi race where he was aksed what was so different about Hamilton and Button, that allows Hamilton to be so much faster around the track. The answer was pretty simple: Lewis can get more heat into the front tires, make the tires work better hence the faster cornering speed (remember the biggest difference they had was in sector 3). And when you think back, that McLaren had a setback after they had to change the front after regulation changes in China it pretty much correlates to the theory that Jenson just didn't suit the tires with his driving style and therefore having problems to set up the car. And when I think back at some drivers which have some sudden performance difference from season to season or race to race (Massa, Webber for example) and blame the tires...well you can't deny it anymore. Of course, a top notch driver like Jenson should be able to adapt to the circumstances, but the mystery about the tires itself made it maybe a bit more complicated that it already was. So I don't expect Jenson having such a heavy drop off again.
The only thing that makes me really gutted, is Hamilton bad luck this season. And Perez coming (I would rather see Hulk, Kimi or even Glock than Perez).

But yeah, next season can't come soon enough! (and therefore some jet fighter intakes drawings discussions :lol: )

#728 Rocket73

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 22:29

On that tack, its interesting that Jenson said that the 2013 were quicker to get to get into working range and had more grip than the 2012. The 2013 front tyres felt "different" to any he had used before.


cautiously rubbing my hands together in anticipation...

great post btw...

#729 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:07

The MP4-27 I believe was the best car of the year. McLaren put forth some very interesting ideas in which many copied. The RB8 was fast at times but I truly think the MP4-27 was the class of the field. A shame the season happened like it did as this car was WCC material and Lewis could've won the WDC in this car. No sense is crying over spilled milk, as a Ferrari fan I know this all too well.

You guys ave a great platform/base with which to start 2013 and I fully expect as usual McLaren to be in the mix. :up:

#730 Brandz07

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:21

Jenson & Sergio are having their seat fitting for the new car next week.

#731 kerum gp

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 19:08

Jenson & Sergio are having their seat fitting for the new car next week.


surely this the news worthy of a new mp4-28 thread :)

#732 DaiMOn

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 23:39

My fictional design for Checo :stoned:

Posted Image

Edited by DaiMOn, 01 December 2012 - 23:45.


#733 jrg19

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 23:41

Looks great :up: probably wont be far off, id imagine we'll see the mexican flag used somewhere.

#734 DaiMOn

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 13:07

Thanks! :wave: Some more shots:

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#735 Markn93

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 14:07

Well 27, so long and thanks for all the fish.

#736 tkulla

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 14:14

Jenson & Sergio are having their seat fitting for the new car next week.


Interesting. So Sauber has released Sergio already. Has McLaren done the same for Lewis, or will he have to wait for the new year to join Mercedes GP?


#737 whitevisor

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 15:21

The silver snowflake. So delicate.

#738 Peter Perfect

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 15:31

Interesting. So Sauber has released Sergio already. Has McLaren done the same for Lewis, or will he have to wait for the new year to join Mercedes GP?

I got the impression that Hamilton would have to wait to join Mercedes, just like Button did when he first joined McLaren from Brawn.

The silver snowflake. So delicate.

..and no two are alike?  ;)

#739 marina

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 16:00

Interesting. So Sauber has released Sergio already. Has McLaren done the same for Lewis, or will he have to wait for the new year to join Mercedes GP?


http://www.express.c...-Lewis-Hamilton
Beyond that, and with McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh’s permission, Hamilton will be allowed contact with the Mercedes staff at Brackley before officially linking up on January 1.

"I won’t be doing much technical work with them but I’m allowed to talk to people" he said.


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#740 Anonymous

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 17:46

Wow, I love that helmet!! :love:

#741 MP422

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 17:55

http://www.jamesalle...n-buttons-form/

http://f1usateam.com...ttons-struggles

I think Canada was very interesting because fundamentally we run the same car for both drivers and they both have the same parts available," Roberts said. "Although we allow them to adapt the set-up to their driving style, clearly we had something fundamentally different in terms of the tyre performance and car performance.

Plus with Jenson having put his hand up in the last 3/4 of the season saying it was ultimately down to him to get a setup that works for him, I'm sure that had nothing to do with his issues though right? You can't have it both ways. When he nailed the setup in Spa, and his teammate CHOSE THE WRONG PATH EVEN THOUGH HE HAD THE SAME PARTS AVAILABLE, it was crowed from the rooftops. Jenson got it right, Lewis got it wrong. So how about the rest of the year? You cant have it both ways. Sorry.


Well said TurboF1, I agree.

#742 Peter Perfect

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 19:38

Obviously it was one of the worst years for McLaren, but there are some things that just came into play. For example the tire lottery was a massive unknown for everybody, not only McLaren. The wet condition performance was an unknown too. But you have to see some positive signs from this season. After 3 consecutive seasons of Red Bull giving the development path for everybody, McLaren could set the benchmark with the coanda exhaust this season. They even were beaten to death by some here for having the low nose/low chassis. They were competitive at the end again, although they had several set backs performancewise this season, so in-season development was pleasing. And since next year the regulations stay pretty much the same, I suspect the MP4-28 at the top. Hell, they even got it together at the pit stops finally and set one fast pit stop after the other. So cut them some slack, they underperformed, they know it and they will try to make it better.

Btw. about Buttons problem. Gary Paffett said to BBC after the Abu Dhabi race where he was aksed what was so different about Hamilton and Button, that allows Hamilton to be so much faster around the track. The answer was pretty simple: Lewis can get more heat into the front tires, make the tires work better hence the faster cornering speed (remember the biggest difference they had was in sector 3). And when you think back, that McLaren had a setback after they had to change the front after regulation changes in China it pretty much correlates to the theory that Jenson just didn't suit the tires with his driving style and therefore having problems to set up the car. And when I think back at some drivers which have some sudden performance difference from season to season or race to race (Massa, Webber for example) and blame the tires...well you can't deny it anymore. Of course, a top notch driver like Jenson should be able to adapt to the circumstances, but the mystery about the tires itself made it maybe a bit more complicated that it already was. So I don't expect Jenson having such a heavy drop off again.
The only thing that makes me really gutted, is Hamilton bad luck this season. And Perez coming (I would rather see Hulk, Kimi or even Glock than Perez).

But yeah, next season can't come soon enough! (and therefore some jet fighter intakes drawings discussions :lol: )

Yep, the fronts were certainly a problem for Button this season, but the tyre test in Brazil appeared to show there's plenty of reason for optimism for next season as he was pretty happy with the feel and reaction of the front of the car. Can't wait for next year either!

Where do the rules stand next season for double-DRS? AFAIK McLaren didn't really feel it was worth them fully developing solutions for it (although I'm sure they looked into it) so I'd be a bit worried if they were looking at throwing something onto the car next year that they hadn't had a quick go at this season (tries not to think of the octo-exhaust!)

#743 tkulla

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 22:18

Yep, the fronts were certainly a problem for Button this season, but the tyre test in Brazil appeared to show there's plenty of reason for optimism for next season as he was pretty happy with the feel and reaction of the front of the car. Can't wait for next year either!

Where do the rules stand next season for double-DRS? AFAIK McLaren didn't really feel it was worth them fully developing solutions for it (although I'm sure they looked into it) so I'd be a bit worried if they were looking at throwing something onto the car next year that they hadn't had a quick go at this season (tries not to think of the octo-exhaust!)


This is where having two drivers that have similar amounts of tyre heat generation is an advantage (as they will with Jenson & Sergio).

I'm certain McLaren is capable of designing a car that can generate more heat in the front tyres, but had they done so this year Lewis would have had to change his driving style to prevent overheating his fronts. So like all teams they tried to create a window of adjustments for the fronts to suit both drivers. Not easy to do when their natural tendency to generate front tyre heat is so disparate.

So do we know if McLaren are going to raise the front bulkhead for next year's car? Last year the impression I got was that the technical regulations were going to require everyone to lower theirs down to the level that McLaren has already done, which would have been an advantage for Woking. But I've heard nothing about it since so I'm assuming the high bulkhead will stay (I think it should be lowered to improve sight lines). Everyone seems to have gotten used to the ugly cars and the silly "plastic nose job" that they're allowing seems to be the solution even though it's cludgy and inelegant.




#744 Bartel

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 00:51

Wow, I love that helmet!! :love:

+1, ill be disappointed with whatever his helmet looks like after seeing that masterpiece, Im sure he'll uyse an Arai but I really hope he doesnt do a Jenson and stick with Bell for half the season.

#745 f1fastestlap

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:37

This is where having two drivers that have similar amounts of tyre heat generation is an advantage (as they will with Jenson & Sergio).

I'm certain McLaren is capable of designing a car that can generate more heat in the front tyres, but had they done so this year Lewis would have had to change his driving style to prevent overheating his fronts. So like all teams they tried to create a window of adjustments for the fronts to suit both drivers. Not easy to do when their natural tendency to generate front tyre heat is so disparate.

So do we know if McLaren are going to raise the front bulkhead for next year's car? Last year the impression I got was that the technical regulations were going to require everyone to lower theirs down to the level that McLaren has already done, which would have been an advantage for Woking. But I've heard nothing about it since so I'm assuming the high bulkhead will stay (I think it should be lowered to improve sight lines). Everyone seems to have gotten used to the ugly cars and the silly "plastic nose job" that they're allowing seems to be the solution even though it's cludgy and inelegant.


BS.

#746 Bartel

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:50

BS.

You don't think so? Turkey 07/08? Lewis does take alot of life out of his fronts, I think the McLaren tried to be easier on its tyres this season which hampered Jenson and helped Lewis preserve his a little.

#747 f1fastestlap

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:05

You don't think so? Turkey 07/08? Lewis does take alot of life out of his fronts, I think the McLaren tried to be easier on its tyres this season which hampered Jenson and helped Lewis preserve his a little.


So McLaren remembered something that has happened some 4 years ago and decided to change it because of that to help Lewis and hinder Mr No Balance...
I wonder what they would do if we had different tyres from 07/08...
OK.

Edited by f1fastestlap, 03 December 2012 - 11:05.


#748 tkulla

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:37

So McLaren remembered something that has happened some 4 years ago and decided to change it because of that to help Lewis and hinder Mr No Balance...
I wonder what they would do if we had different tyres from 07/08...
OK.


You're assuming some sort of intent to favor Lewis that I never actually suggested. The teams have a rough idea of what the temperature range for the tyres will be based on some very limited testing with next season's tyres (like the run they all had on them in Brazil). But since that's a very limited amount of data there's a bit of guesswork that must be done. It seems to me that the team was concerned about being too hard on the tyres and ended up perhaps slightly too light only because the temperature window of this year's Pirelli's was tiny.

For next year it should be a bit easier in that Jenson and Sergio seem similar in this regard and the tyres are supposedly going to operate well across a wider temperature window. That said, the danger in getting it wrong is greater since both drivers will struggle rather than just one.

#749 Kingshark

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 22:13

Interesting article.

Mclaren had the fastest car this season, ahead of Red Bull; then Lotus and then Ferrari.
http://www.f1fanatic...ar-performance/

So. The car with the fastest car was beaten by the car with the 4th fastest car in both the drivers and constructors championships. Impressive.

I didn't know it was possible to under perform that much. Purely based on the pace of the cars; this season has been Mclaren's to lose, and they have managed to do that, spectacularly.

#750 SNiko

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:20

Even though the car was fastest, the speed of the car is not the main criteria of the success. Beside speed, there are also such factors as reliability (worst in top 3), work on command bridge (worst in top 3), lucky (worst in top 3). Also, I have doubts we had the fastest car.