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Mclaren MP4-27 Part IV


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#51 silversurf3r

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:14

Did anyone notice during the drivers press conference Webber basically said he will move over for Vettel. I believe he said something along the lines of "we have some friendly fire to sort out first" obviously this might not matter if Seb gets a grid penalty but if not we may as well consider Vettel second on the grid.

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#52 robefc

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:15

You cant just exclude Lewis' results. I judge the car based on how they do relative to each other. I think apart from the past couple races, Mclaren has been the quickest this season still. Not saying Lewis doesn't make a difference, he does, but other drivers in other cars make a difference, too.


I think the point is he won't be here to make the difference next year.

#53 f1fastestlap

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:15

Did anyone notice during the drivers press conference Webber basically said he will move over for Vettel. I believe he said something along the lines of "we have some friendly fire to sort out first" obviously this might not matter if Seb gets a grid penalty but if not we may as well consider Vettel second on the grid.


I think he was talking about reliability(kers, etc)...

#54 robefc

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:16

Did anyone notice during the drivers press conference Webber basically said he will move over for Vettel. I believe he said something along the lines of "we have some friendly fire to sort out first" obviously this might not matter if Seb gets a grid penalty but if not we may as well consider Vettel second on the grid.


I thought friendly fire = renault on red bull? Friends fire generally involves your own team accidentally shooting at you...

#55 10e10

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:19

He's with McLaren now not Mercedes. So you can stop deflecting the issue...


Deflecting? I'm saying that if mistakes are the reason for changing wouldn't he try to change to a team who does less mistakes, not the same level or more.

#56 f1fastestlap

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:22

Deflecting? I'm saying that if mistakes are the reason for changing wouldn't he try to change to a team who does less mistakes, not the same level or more.


He's not at Mercedes so, they can do whatever mistakes they want. Once he's there then it's his problem.
Right now it's McLaren's problem and he's had enough...

#57 kedia990

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 15:24

Woah Maldonado mega quick through the speed trap, coupled with a not-so-shabby time through S1 & S3, Hamilton & the Bulls could be sitting ducks on the straights:

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

#58 amppatel

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 18:16

wow LH has given McLaren 1/3 of their poles!

#59 Peter3hg

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 18:55

wow LH has given McLaren 1/3 of their poles!


Wasn't that since the Mercedes partnership started?

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#60 whitevisor

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 19:03

Wasn't that since the Mercedes partnership started?


Has to be, becuase Senna had a truck load of poles, and Mika had a good amount too.

#61 karlth

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 19:23

wow LH has given McLaren 1/3 of their poles!


Sure about that? Seems awfully high, considering Senna's qualifying prowess from 1988 to 1991.

Nevertheless since joining McLaren 5 years ago Lewis has managed 25 poles while his teammates (two of them reigning world champions) have managed 3 in total.

#62 Lazy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 19:26

Sure about that? Seems awfully high, considering Senna's qualifying prowess from 1988 to 1991.

Nevertheless since joining McLaren 5 years ago Lewis has managed 25 poles while his teammates (two of them reigning world champions) have managed 3 in total.


And yet pretty much exactly the same amount of points as those 2 wdc's, has to be something in that.

#63 karlth

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 19:30

And yet pretty much exactly the same amount of points as those 2 wdc's, has to be something in that.


The times Hamilton has been overtaken on track or in the pits by his teammate can probably be counted on one hand. His lack relative lack of points has much more to do with reliability, operational errors and taking too much risk. Not lack of pace.


#64 rodlamas

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 19:52

Whoever finishes 1st lap 1st will win it. This will be an easy one-stopper with some scrumble mid pack due to successive DRS zones.

Yesterday I took note of Button's 15 lap stint and after 15 laps he was 1.5 faster, i.e., as each lap counts for the car being 0.1 faster due to fuel being burned, there is no tire degradation there. And this was on the soft tire on a full load of fuel.

Hamilton will win it and there will be a big scrumble in between Webber, Maldonado, Raikkonen, Button and Alonso for the podium.

Vettel shall finish this race around Massa.

#65 Alx09

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 20:08

Somehow I feel that if the team compromise for Button, Lewis will suffer but he is still comparable to Button's pace but if the team compromise for Lewis, Button will look so bad since Lewis will be much faster.

Yup, I think this is the case, at least last year with compromise for Button.

Edited by Alx09, 03 November 2012 - 20:11.


#66 mp4x

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 20:59

Great job today by Lewis and the team. I think it was before India that Sam Michael or Paddy Lowe said they will bring upgrades between India and Abu Dhabi but today in the post qualifying conference Lewis said they didn’t and it clearly shows they don’t tell him about them.

#67 mp4x

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 21:02

They thing that worries me the most is 2013, today after watching Q3 and the time difference between Lewis and Jenson I really hated Martin Whitmarsh for losing Lewis. I wonder if the rival teams pay him to deliberately destroy the second old Formula One team. What we’re gonna do? Unless the team produces a 2009-Brawn-like car in the early stages of that year we have to be happy that Jenson The Almighty Tire Master starts the races from the third or fourth row and I’m not sure what to expect from Perez. I know we’ll survive, we’ve lost Ayrton Senna, Raikkonen, Adrian Newey, Alonso and now we lost Lewis and will lose again but the thing that I can see is the fact from 2008 the team is no longer the legendary McLaren team, it’s the team who’s happy when they finish the runner-up.

#68 Bartel

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 21:06

Really happy with pole, really stunned with Jense i thought he'd be 4th at worst, really disappointed. Really annoyed that our car can just decide to be fast on any given circuit and be a pig on others but ill take it, hopefully we'll be fast for the next 2 aswell although i think red bull will own america

#69 Silverknight

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 21:29

Can anyone explain why Martin Whitmarsh looked like he was about to cry in his interview after qualifying?

finally sunk in they have lost Hamilton, Ron Dennis got hus whip out.

Still can't believe Mclaren let him go, the car will be great next year and i see Jenson and Perez winning races.

#70 Absulute

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 21:31

I'm going to really miss Hamilton next year. It's a massive loss.

#71 race addicted

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 21:48

(...people think Whitmarsh did what he could during negotiations, but it's rather what he did and didn't do before that.)

No updates apparently for this track, backed up by Hamilton and Autosport's tech-blog. Dissapointing, but then Hamilton makes the difference.

#72 OwenC93

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:12

(...people think Whitmarsh did what he could during negotiations, but it's rather what he did and didn't do before that.)

No updates apparently for this track, backed up by Hamilton and Autosport's tech-blog. Dissapointing, but then Hamilton makes the difference.

No one brought upgrades, too late in the season and Whitmarsh was right not to push for any looking at how fast McLaren are.

#73 race addicted

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:28

...how fast Hamilton is, that is.

Ferrari, Williams and Caterham brought upgrades. Lotus tried some subtle upgrades too, but I don't know if they're on the car now.

#74 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:37

Great lap from Lewis, he and McLaren been on it all weekend. This has always been one of Lewis' strongest tracks, he excels on tracks with/short sharp or right angled corners where turn in timing is critical it seems.

#75 study

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:38

Martin has backed one driver since the start of the year (probs before), looks like he put his money on the wrong horse.

#76 Viktoria

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:39

Seriously, can someone tell me why McLaren has done everything to lose Lewis?
I still dont get, they played hard ball with him. They put him in a corner and made Button to their golden boy! Still I dont get it and I will never understand this!

Edited by Viktoria, 03 November 2012 - 22:43.


#77 Viktoria

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:40

Martin has backed one driver since the start of the year (probs before), looks like he put his money on the wrong horse.


but WHY?????? THAT is my question!!! I cant understand it... dont tell my that Ron and Martin really belived that Jenson is the better driver than Lewis? :confused:

Edited by Viktoria, 03 November 2012 - 22:41.


#78 fololo

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:54

but WHY?????? THAT is my question!!! I cant understand it... dont tell my that Ron and Martin really belived that Jenson is the better driver than Lewis? :confused:

Perez will be button level....


But there is one driver who would beat hamilton in mclaren


Raikonnen+mclaren= Beast

But hw couldnt sign dam lotus contract...

#79 study

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:56

Seriously, can someone tell me why McLaren has done everything to lose Lewis?
I still dont get, they played hard ball with him. They put him in a corner and made Button to their golden boy! Still I dont get it and I will never understand this!


Its wierd, it happened since Button arrived.

There was removing the championship winning engineering team to make equal between them

There was the strange pit stop in Australia so that they didn't clash on the track or think lewis could make the tyres last that put him behind everyone and allowed button to win

there was turkey, no button won't overtake if you ease off like we tell you to

This year, it started badly with, the tampering of his start settings

then the driver in front gets the call first, so button comes in first, then, erm Lewis is in front, erm cough cough, button still comes in at the best time, lets leave lewis stranded out there on shit tyres for a few laps more

The more advantageous strategy calls

the whitmarsh "yeah yeah lewis did okay winning, but look at Button, he stormed from 7th place to a almighty 6th, but his magnificient championship winning drive he has proved what an amazing driver he is, not only that he changed his own tyres and also developed the new aerodynamics for the mclaren, what a guy" lovefest

the lets pay button more, but lets pay lewis less

the lets devote all resources including out champion chasing guys engineers to solve buttons problems and while were at, lets change lewis race winning setup to a shit setup so we can find out where were going wrong with the button developed parts? wierd, cause he's so smart we can't understand how they've turned out shit

The hmm yeah lets not back our championship leading driver

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#80 study

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 22:56

Perez will be button level....


But there is one driver who would beat hamilton in mclaren


Raikonnen+mclaren= Beast



lol

doubt it.

#81 ali.unal

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:00

Great lap from Lewis, he and McLaren been on it all weekend. This has always been one of Lewis' strongest tracks, he excels on tracks with/short sharp or right angled corners where turn in timing is critical it seems.

Don't forget the hard breaking areas at the end of long straights like Canada, China.

#82 Coral

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:09

the whitmarsh "yeah yeah lewis did okay winning, but look at Button, he stormed from 7th place to a almighty 6th, but his magnificient championship winning drive he has proved what an amazing driver he is, not only that he changed his own tyres and also developed the new aerodynamics for the mclaren, what a guy" lovefest

the lets pay button more, but lets pay lewis less

the lets devote all resources including out champion chasing guys engineers to solve buttons problems and while were at, lets change lewis race winning setup to a shit setup so we can find out where were going wrong with the button developed parts? wierd, cause he's so smart we can't understand how they've turned out shit

The hmm yeah lets not back our championship leading driver


I actually laughed out loud at this! :lol: Obviously you're exaggerating but I don't think your post is all that far from the truth. I firmly believe Whitmarsh thought Button was going to deliver the title this year for McLaren, especially after Lewis's troubles last year. They have been found out big time and I shudder to think what is in store for McLaren next year. I don't know how Whitmarsh is still in a job.

#83 stevesingo

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:29

I think we are looking at a tyre anomaly here. The evidence suggests that in the hotter sessions there was very little between the two drivers. Come the cooling conditions of Q3 in particular, I believe LH could still keep the tyres in the optimum temp range, but JB dropped below and this cost him time.

No JB complaints of balance, just "I was slow". This points to tyre temps. I predict JB to be slow in the first stint and equal to LH in the second.

My JB strategy would be flat out in he first stint and sod the tyres. If they wear out so be it. Get on the primes as early as possible.


#84 superdelphinus

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:34

The interview whitmarsh gave on sky was almost exactly the reverse of the above though - he was gushing good style over Hamilton. The guy looks a bit frazzled lately though

#85 BigCHrome

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 23:59

I actually laughed out loud at this! :lol: Obviously you're exaggerating but I don't think your post is all that far from the truth. I firmly believe Whitmarsh thought Button was going to deliver the title this year for McLaren, especially after Lewis's troubles last year. They have been found out big time and I shudder to think what is in store for McLaren next year. I don't know how Whitmarsh is still in a job.


He didn't just think it, he said it. Either before the Australian race or after it.

#86 scheivlak

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 00:15

He didn't just think it, he said it. Either before the Australian race or after it.

So you could give us the exact quote then?

#87 Obi Offiah

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 00:37

Anyone notice that the Merc donk in the back of the McLaren seems to have lost that rasp it's had in the last couple of races?

#88 study

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 00:51

Anyone notice that the Merc donk in the back of the McLaren seems to have lost that rasp it's had in the last couple of races?


Nope, but if it has, what exactly would that mean lol

#89 Markn93

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 00:59

The Macca fan in me was quite sad and worried today. Of course I enjoyed the pole but for those saying Lewis is taking a step back next year and will get crushed by the team he left, showing him the error of his ways, look at it this way. Lewis would probably be starting alongside JB if he were sat in the Merc right now. I don't think Perez is better than Button so what now looks like a good result will next year in fact be a ho-hum sort of result (with Hamilton right in the mix fighting these guys ) . The worst part is next years car will be capable of poles and wins yet I fear it won't achieve them because of the drivers . MW didn't know how well he had it with Lewis, and I've gone from being optimistic to rather pessimistic regarding next year on the basis that you can't win a wdc or wcc from starting on the 3/4 rows on a regular basis.

#90 femi

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:00

I think we are looking at a tyre anomaly here. The evidence suggests that in the hotter sessions there was very little between the two drivers. Come the cooling conditions of Q3 in particular, I believe LH could still keep the tyres in the optimum temp range, but JB dropped below and this cost him time.

No JB complaints of balance, just "I was slow". This points to tyre temps. I predict JB to be slow in the first stint and equal to LH in the second.

My JB strategy would be flat out in he first stint and sod the tyres. If they wear out so be it. Get on the primes as early as possible.


The problem with that is JB himself said the car felt good. He did not complain of poor grip according to his comments on BBC just after qualifying. He basically said he had no clue, and if he knew what the issue was, he would have fixed it. JB fans are just not wanting to accept he is an average driver by F1 standards.

I wonder what people are going to say if he struggles to get on top of Perez come next season.

More importantly for Mclaren, they are going to have to produce an extra dominant car for next season if they are going to progress above mid-field next season. It is very easy for JB to blame the car when LH is no longer there to show what the car can really do.

Another bad call by Mclaren...

Edited by femi, 04 November 2012 - 07:02.


#91 aray

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:04

lol

doubt it.

:lol: :lol:
nevermind...that's how kimifans console themselves... ;)

#92 KOMORI

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:17

The problem with that is JB himself said the car felt good. He did not complain of poor grip according to his comments on BBC just after qualifying. He basically said he had no clue, and if he knew what the issue was, he would have fixed it. JB fans are just not wanting to accept he is an average driver by F1 standards.

I wonder what people are going to say if he struggles to get on top of Perez come next season.

More importantly for Mclaren, they are going to have to produce an extra dominant car for next season if they are going to progress above mid-field next season. It is very easy for JB to blame the car when LH is no longer there to show what the car can really do.

Another bad call by Mclaren...


They'll do ok without Lewis... But they will definately miss his ability to wring every last tenth out of the car, and then a few extra ones that the car doesn't have! His onboard from last night's pole lap was damn near flawless, a beautiful display of controlled aggressive driving that only a few on the grid today can match.... and IMHO neither Perez nor Button are amongst those I consider Lewis's equal. However, both are pretty damn good so I think Mclaren will still be strong and the nearly static rules *should* ensure they've got a competitive car next year. In saying that, Lewis will be sorely missed methinks.

Damn but the car looked beautifully hooked up in qually.... What a frustrating bloody year: should have netted at least ONE championship but won't get either. Sadface.jpg :(


#93 Peter Perfect

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 07:39

Its wierd, it happened since Button arrived.

There was removing the championship winning engineering team to make equal between them
Didn't some of his team get promotions because they were doing so well?

There was the strange pit stop in Australia so that they didn't clash on the track or think lewis could make the tyres last that put him behind everyone and allowed button to win
As opposed to the bad strategy calls that Buttons has had this year

there was turkey, no button won't overtake if you ease off like we tell you to
The pitlane team did nothing wrong. Hamilton slowed too much and Button saw his chance. You can blame Button, but not the pitlane team.

This year, it started badly with, the tampering of his start settings
Tampering now? Are we going back onto 'McLaren are sabotaging their own car' line?

then the driver in front gets the call first, so button comes in first, then, erm Lewis is in front, erm cough cough, button still comes in at the best time, lets leave lewis stranded out there on shit tyres for a few laps more
The driver in front gets the preference of when to come in

The more advantageous strategy calls
Yeah, as the pit lane team have been flwless with Buttons strategies

the whitmarsh "yeah yeah lewis did okay winning, but look at Button, he stormed from 7th place to a almighty 6th, but his magnificient championship winning drive he has proved what an amazing driver he is, not only that he changed his own tyres and also developed the new aerodynamics for the mclaren, what a guy" lovefest
Jeezo

the lets pay button more, but lets pay lewis less
and let's bankrupt the team when the financial situation is dire. And yet they were still willing to make him the best paid driver on the grid

the lets devote all resources including out champion chasing guys engineers to solve buttons problems and while were at, lets change lewis race winning setup to a shit setup so we can find out where were going wrong with the button developed parts? wierd, cause he's so smart we can't understand how they've turned out shit
For the 4000th time I've seen no proof that McLaren devoted all their resources to solving Buttons set-up issues or that it impacted the development of the car. If you have proof please tell.

The hmm yeah lets not back our championship leading driver
It was good enough to have equal status in 2007, why not now?

There are certainly plenty of concerns for McLaren next year associated with losing a driver of Hamiltons calibre but you don't have to make a whole load of stuff up.

#94 bauss

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:14

The problem with that is JB himself said the car felt good. He did not complain of poor grip according to his comments on BBC just after qualifying. He basically said he had no clue, and if he knew what the issue was, he would have fixed it. JB fans are just not wanting to accept he is an average driver by F1 standards.

I wonder what people are going to say if he struggles to get on top of Perez come next season.

More importantly for Mclaren, they are going to have to produce an extra dominant car for next season if they are going to progress above mid-field next season. It is very easy for JB to blame the car when LH is no longer there to show what the car can really do.

Another bad call by Mclaren...


I suspect JB will own Perez though, which will make things even worse overall... there will be some tracks Perez is competitive and some, not so much...and I don't expect him to be on average quicker than JB, especially not in the races... anyway we will see.

I don't think McLaren lost LH just due to hardball negotiations, team dynamics since 2010 were most likely the seed and most importantly, their inability to match Red Bull technically or operationally

#95 WitnessX

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:20

The Macca fan in me was quite sad and worried today. Of course I enjoyed the pole but for those saying Lewis is taking a step back next year and will get crushed by the team he left, showing him the error of his ways, look at it this way. Lewis would probably be starting alongside JB if he were sat in the Merc right now. I don't think Perez is better than Button so what now looks like a good result will next year in fact be a ho-hum sort of result (with Hamilton right in the mix fighting these guys ) . The worst part is next years car will be capable of poles and wins yet I fear it won't achieve them because of the drivers . MW didn't know how well he had it with Lewis, and I've gone from being optimistic to rather pessimistic regarding next year on the basis that you can't win a wdc or wcc from starting on the 3/4 rows on a regular basis.

Before the "Macca fan" in you jumps off a bridge, the question arises as to what is the root cause of the problems that have plagued Button this year?

I would be tempted to say that the car('27)+tyres and Button rarely found each other, they just have not suited him.

Look at last years qualifying at Abu Dhabi, the difference between him and Lewis was only 0.009 seconds.

Is Button capable of qualifying well? Is Button capable of winning races?

So will '28 be exactly the same or an improvement on the '27?
Will the 2013 tyres still be the same Pirelli "P-Hero-Zero's" as this year? Pirelli have said they are opening the tyre operating range but increasing degradation, so I assume not.

2013 could be fun, but lets get there first.

Edited by WitnessX, 04 November 2012 - 08:51.


#96 D.M.N.

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 08:31

The topic of this thread is development and car performance of the McLaren MP4-27, nothing else. Take Jenson/Lewis elsewhere.

If you're point does not fit into an existing thread, feel free to create a new thread. Thanks

#97 amppatel

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:49

Did anyone see the interview with MW about McLaren not pushing the boundaries of the rules due to damage it will do to their image? Why the hell are they in F1 if the want to play by the rules? Thank God LH is moving to a team with a bit more bottle!

#98 teejay

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:18

New tooned - AWESOME

its the feds!

#99 Raziel

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:18

New tooned - AWESOME

its the feds!



Great MIKA is in it! Lovely! :up: :clap:

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#100 F1ultimate

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 13:46

My gosh. Mclaren have really thrown away two championships this year. Lewis couldn't be any happier about leaving. The reliability is on par with Kimis days at the team.