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Mclaren MP4-27 Part IV


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#201 ElDictatore

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:24

He used that excuse in Monza already.


It's not the same as in Monza, as stated my MW and Gary Paffett. The fuel pump doesn't consist of only one part. Gary Paffett also stated that every failure this year was something else.

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#202 CrashTestDummy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:25

I can't stand Helmut Marko, but when he said that Hamilton's move to Mercedes is going to weaken 2 of their most serious competitors in one fell swoop, he was spot on.


Wait, I don't get it. One weakened competitor is McLaren, what's the other one?

#203 Kvothe

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:27

Gregory Haines ‏@GregoryHainesF1

McLaren confirms that @LewisHamilton had a steering problem with the hydraulics, so he couldn't turn at all #F1


I think he's gotten confused with Karthikeyan.......

#204 robybobey

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:27

Yes seems that way, deleted as a result lol.

#205 Kvothe

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:27

Wait, I don't get it. One weakened competitor is McLaren, what's the other one?


Lewis

#206 BigWicks

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:34

Just some quick back of the hand maths here

I think we can safely 100% say Lewis has lost three certain wins due to McLaren screw ups (Spain, Singapore, Abu Dhabi)

That's 71 points he's lost.

He's currently 90 behind Vettel.

But ! If he had won those three races, Vettel loses points as well, they would basically be level going into the final two races.

And just to widen this to the team as well, take those three screw ups, and Button losing 2nd in Monza, and McLaren would be neck and neck with Red Bull in the constructors.

Everyone at McLaren should have massive regrets over this season, they have thrown away two titles, and you don't get many serious shots at titles in a career.

#207 Mc_Silver

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:35

Please send Jenson from this team. Even with this dominant car he was more 1 second per lap slower than Lewis. He is really average driver. He should have passed Alonso easily and finished 2nd but he is even overtaken by vettel what a joke

#208 CrashTestDummy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:37

Lewis


Oh, OK. Well, we'll see about that one, won't we?

=^__^=

#209 SR388

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:42

Is Lewis the proverbial rat leaving the sinking ship?

Macca seems to be moving in the wrong direction. Imagine how mediocre this team would look if Jensons results were the top for the team. They really need to go back to the drawing board and sort out their issues.

#210 inca_roads

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:44

Mechanical failure of some sort (not counting shifting issues) in 4 out of the last 5 races for Lewis (and 5 out of the last 6 for the team as a whole), in an era of better reliability in F1, on top of the woeful stuff with fuelling and pit stops at the start of the season. Just really, really bad.

#211 Obi Offiah

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:48

Just some quick back of the hand maths here

I think we can safely 100% say Lewis has lost three certain wins due to McLaren screw ups (Spain, Singapore, Abu Dhabi)

That's 71 points he's lost.

He's currently 90 behind Vettel.

But ! If he had won those three races, Vettel loses points as well, they would basically be level going into the final two races.

And just to widen this to the team as well, take those three screw ups, and Button losing 2nd in Monza, and McLaren would be neck and neck with Red Bull in the constructors.

Everyone at McLaren should have massive regrets over this season, they have thrown away two titles, and you don't get many serious shots at titles in a career.

Vettel lost points in Valencia, Monza and the issue in Abu Dhabi wasn't his fault either.

#212 Kvothe

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:51

Vettel lost points in Valencia, Monza and the issue in Abu Dhabi wasn't his fault either.


But than Lewis also lost points in Germany with the puncture, China with the gearbox penalty, Maldonaldo in Valencia, Grosjean in Spa, damper issue in Japan, roll bar failure in Korea, poor pit-stops in Malaysia (putting him behind the race winner)and again in Bahrain.

Edited by Kvothe, 04 November 2012 - 16:52.


#213 Seanspeed

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:55

Please send Jenson from this team. Even with this dominant car he was more 1 second per lap slower than Lewis. He is really average driver. He should have passed Alonso easily and finished 2nd but he is even overtaken by vettel what a joke

I actually give him credit for holding off Vettel like he for as long as he did on much more worn tires. But yea, with what Lewis was doing with the car, he probably shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.

#214 study

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:00

Buttons a good driver but he's never going to bring you to the edge of your seat, the only time he shines is in changeable conditions and a good strategy call.

#215 Obi Offiah

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:17

But than Lewis also lost points in Germany with the puncture, China with the gearbox penalty, Maldonaldo in Valencia, Grosjean in Spa, damper issue in Japan, roll bar failure in Korea, poor pit-stops in Malaysia (putting him behind the race winner)and again in Bahrain.

I completely agree, but we can't just look at the misfortune that has befallen Lewis and say 'But ! If he had won those three races, Vettel loses points as well, they would basically be level going into the final two races.', that unfair. You have to factor in the failures and issues that have effected Seb also.

Edited by Obi Offiah, 04 November 2012 - 17:17.


#216 karlth

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:23

I completely agree, but we can't just look at the misfortune that has befallen Lewis and say 'But ! If he had won those three races, Vettel loses points as well, they would basically be level going into the final two races.', that unfair. You have to factor in the failures and issues that have effected Seb also.


Still dwarfed by Hamilton's incidents.

#217 FSLIV

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:27

Did you notice i said when not if? He will be back. And all of the people who bag out McLaren I hope don't even bother coming with him. Will be a nice change in here!


I have to agree I def think he will be back of course it might be after Button and MW leave.

I am very curios as to what changes will be made to Macca in the off season. I am truely sorry to see LH leave but at the rate of failures can anyone blame him. I truely love Macca but they need to do some serious reflection.

This is the 2rd time a top driver was forced to leave over mechanical failures. Kimi and now Lewis.

And contrary to many Button is not gonna cut it.

#218 robybobey

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:01

Most of all I'm angry that we didn't get the chance to see Lewis decimate the field on the harder tires.

Talk about being unlucky though....

#219 Tauhid

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:08

Most of all I'm angry that we didn't get the chance to see Lewis decimate the field on the harder tires.

Talk about being unlucky though....


couldn't agree more. Yet again I turned on the TV even though this circuit has had 3 of the most boring races in the past years to see how Lewis performs and how the championship battle goes on. He surely would have won this race with a huge gap over KIMI even with all the safety car calls. His pace on the medium this weekend was simply staggering.

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#220 MoggaOg

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:09

Of course *if* McLaren sort out their reliabiilty issues - then Lewis might be regretting things this time next year...

#221 superdelphinus

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:24

I think all you can say for certain is that with the reliability and track-side operations you'd expect from a top team, along with neutral 'luck', Hamilton would have been well in this title battle right now. Mclaren need to take drastic action after this utter disaster of a season I think.

#222 superdelphinus

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:27

Of course *if* McLaren sort out their reliabiilty issues - then Lewis might be regretting things this time next year...


There's always ifs and buts with mclaren these days. Having the fastest car for most of the season and arguably the fastest driver, and coming 3rd in the wcc and the driver being effectively out of the championship with nearly of a quarter of it left is abysmal. Needs a major shakeup

#223 Obi Offiah

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:36

Still dwarfed by Hamilton's incidents.

There'll be no doubting that from me.

#224 race addicted

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:47

Most of all I'm angry that we didn't get the chance to see Lewis decimate the field on the harder tires.

Talk about being unlucky though....


Yeah, same here! I was so looking forward to him crushing the rest once on the primes!

#225 onewingedangel

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:21

Wonder if the young drivers test will see MP4-27 updates for the final two races, or some MP4-28 concept testing as limited as that could be with the current chassis.

Can't imagine much being added to the '27 for the end of the season as further upgrades would likely be parts derived/adapted from the '28 development and it may be better to keep those quiet for next year unless they are ideas featured on other cars already.

#226 BigCHrome

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:05

Pathetic team. :down: :down: They need to rename it because this garbage is a stain on Bruce McLaren's name.

#227 Peter Perfect

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:15

Pathetic team. :down: :down: They need to rename it because this garbage is a stain on Bruce McLaren's name.

Massively-overreacting-"McLaren-fan"-says-what?

#228 10e10

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:15

I think all you can say for certain is that with the reliability and track-side operations you'd expect from a top team, along with neutral 'luck', Hamilton would have been well in this title battle right now. Mclaren need to take drastic action after this utter disaster of a season I think.


I have to agree with this. That was the biggest reason for this year being a disaster, not the car's speed.

#229 Peter Perfect

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:28

I have to agree with this. That was the biggest reason for this year being a disaster, not the car's speed.

Yep, reliability has been a real problem this year and must be a priority for next. The pitstops look much better now while the strategy side has never exactly been top-notch so this year has hardly been an aberration.

Has there been any more information on the cause of Hamiltons issue?

#230 Raziel

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:42

Pathetic team. :down: :down: They need to rename it because this garbage is a stain on Bruce McLaren's name.


Have you watched McLaren in , 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2004, 2006??? :well: :cat:

#231 Shiroo

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:54

Massively-overreacting-"McLaren-fan"-says-what?

I dunno if he is overreacting. They had rocketship, and probably they still have (on par with RBR). After 1st part of the season they should be around 100pts ahead in WCC and Hamilton should be 60-70pts clear ahead of 2nd. But due to totally retarded behaviour of the team during pit stops, strategy calls, qualifactions, setting up, reliability (I believe that McLaren has lowest reliability, even lower than HRT), focused on wrong driver.. Well there isnt a thing that McLaren didnt f*** up in 1st part of the season, and in 2nd it doesnt look any better. With a car like that they are 3rd in WCC? They should claim WCC title like 1-2 races before.

Lets face it, even biased fan can say it, that McLaren had clearly best car by most of the season, and Hamilton is not the WDC and McLaren is not WCC just because team mangament went few times (and by few I mean like half of the races) full retard. And the first rule is to NEVER GO FULL RETARD (half retard is max).

What is even more saddening. McLaren will be next year with a driver like Button, and that this year showed how much he is missing to top tier of drivers (Hamilton with like 3 DNFs from 1st place, Barcelona retardness from the team, is still ahead of him, and tbh he destroys him in qualification and in the race). On the other hand they have Perez, that probably is atm the most overhyped driver. Sometimes his racecraft is on par with Grosjean and that's not the best driver to take example from. He might be fast during a race, but if you look closely at his season, he didnt make anything spectular from TOP10 starts, tbh Kobayashi outperformed him most of the times in quali I believe, and only due to stupidity of tyres rules (start on the same tyres that u set lap in Q3), he claimed podium ONLY when started from outside top 10, it only shows, that Sauber with it's insane good tyre managment performed great with the strategy prepared from the team.

He makes a load of mistakes like the one in malaysia, following Alonso or here, or in India. Since McLaren contract he became quite mistake prone, and what is the worst, he became insanely cocky (just look at his behavior today when he was at fault and was waving hands like "OMG IT IS MY TRACK").


So, I believe he is not overreacting, it is just McLaren, AGAIN, failed at max it's potential, and what is the worst, it is not because of a driver, it is because of the team.

Edited by Shiroo, 04 November 2012 - 21:55.


#232 superdelphinus

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:56

When you look at button and hamilton's point trajectories it's looking pretty certain that Hamilton is going to come 2nd again this season I reckon. If there was any more proof needed that stats in f1 make up about 5% of the truth, that should help

#233 Anonymous

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:00

Have you watched McLaren in , 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2004, 2006??? :well: :cat:


Don't feed him.

#234 skyform

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:11

I dunno if he is overreacting. They had rocketship, and probably they still have (on par with RBR). After 1st part of the season they should be around 100pts ahead in WCC and Hamilton should be 60-70pts clear ahead of 2nd. But due to totally retarded behaviour of the team during pit stops, strategy calls, qualifactions, setting up, reliability (I believe that McLaren has lowest reliability, even lower than HRT), focused on wrong driver.. Well there isnt a thing that McLaren didnt f*** up in 1st part of the season, and in 2nd it doesnt look any better. With a car like that they are 3rd in WCC? They should claim WCC title like 1-2 races before.

Lets face it, even biased fan can say it, that McLaren had clearly best car by most of the season, and Hamilton is not the WDC and McLaren is not WCC just because team mangament went few times (and by few I mean like half of the races) full retard. And the first rule is to NEVER GO FULL RETARD (half retard is max).

What is even more saddening. McLaren will be next year with a driver like Button, and that this year showed how much he is missing to top tier of drivers (Hamilton with like 3 DNFs from 1st place, Barcelona retardness from the team, is still ahead of him, and tbh he destroys him in qualification and in the race). On the other hand they have Perez, that probably is atm the most overhyped driver. Sometimes his racecraft is on par with Grosjean and that's not the best driver to take example from. He might be fast during a race, but if you look closely at his season, he didnt make anything spectular from TOP10 starts, tbh Kobayashi outperformed him most of the times in quali I believe, and only due to stupidity of tyres rules (start on the same tyres that u set lap in Q3), he claimed podium ONLY when started from outside top 10, it only shows, that Sauber with it's insane good tyre managment performed great with the strategy prepared from the team.

He makes a load of mistakes like the one in malaysia, following Alonso or here, or in India. Since McLaren contract he became quite mistake prone, and what is the worst, he became insanely cocky (just look at his behavior today when he was at fault and was waving hands like "OMG IT IS MY TRACK").


So, I believe he is not overreacting, it is just McLaren, AGAIN, failed at max it's potential, and what is the worst, it is not because of a driver, it is because of the team.


Great post, couldn't agree more!


#235 BigCHrome

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:11

Have you watched McLaren in , 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2004, 2006??? :well: :cat:


Yeah, except those situations were completely different. Not much they could do without factory support in 94 and 95, or about FIA messing with Michellin tires for 04 or 06.

This year has been complete ineptness through the entire season, completely self inflicted.

#236 ZooL

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:19

Reality laid bare.

Sooner or later McLaren will realise they should have built the whole team around Hamilton and given him anything he wanted. They should have stroked his ego to a tee.

Whitmarsh WILL pay for this sooner or later.

Hamilton will be back. They will appreciate him more the next time around.

#237 PretentiousBread

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:41

McLaren are now likely to finish 3rd in the constructors. Could someone tell me has it ever happened in the history of F1 that a team has produced arguably the quickest car over the course of the season and yet only finishes third in the constructors? I don't believe we've ever seen this before.

#238 peroa

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:43

Lotus is only 30 points behind.
:smoking:

#239 Raziel

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:03

Yeah, except those situations were completely different. Not much they could do without factory support in 94 and 95, or about FIA messing with Michellin tires for 04 or 06.

This year has been complete ineptness through the entire season, completely self inflicted.


I just want to say that you're overreacting and that you cannot say: "They need to rename it because this garbage is a stain on Bruce McLaren's name" that is pretty harsh. They have been in much worse situations before and they survived. Also they have been in much better position, there was a time when they dominated in F1. Until 2000 they were best team in F1 statistically, with more titles then Ferrari. Yes they have lost championships this season and that hurts big time, but also they have won 5 wins and 7 pole positions and created (again!) race winning car. Better this then nightmares from 2006 and 2009, for example. McLaren was/is always at the front, always with a solid, race winning car. In the past seasons they were always close (2nd) but unfortunately not enough because there was one team out of 10 that was better. Only one team better in a very competitive environment! But the stars will align again in the future for McLaren and their time will come again, I'm sure of it! They fall they rise..it's all the process.

Many say: "sometimes it's really hard to support McLaren" and I agree, I feel their pain, but every single victory, every pole position, every championship won by McLaren is super, super sweet for McLaren fans and they know this very well.


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#240 Lemans

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:34

I just want to say that you're overreacting and that you cannot say: "They need to rename it because this garbage is a stain on Bruce McLaren's name" that is pretty harsh. They have been in much worse situations before and they survived. Also they have been in much better position, there was a time when they dominated in F1. Until 2000 they were best team in F1 statistically, with more titles then Ferrari. Yes they have lost championships this season and that hurts big time, but also they have won 5 wins and 7 pole positions and created (again!) race winning car. Better this then nightmares from 2006 and 2009, for example. McLaren was/is always at the front, always with a solid, race winning car. In the past seasons they were always close (2nd) but unfortunately not enough because there was one team out of 10 that was better. Only one team better in a very competitive environment! But the stars will align again in the future for McLaren and their time will come again, I'm sure of it! They fall they rise..it's all the process.

Many say: "sometimes it's really hard to support McLaren" and I agree, I feel their pain, but every single victory, every pole position, every championship won by McLaren is super, super sweet for McLaren fans and they know this very well.


Exactly!
This team has a lot of improving to do, and they certainly will. Anyone who writes them off certainly hasn't been following the sport very long.

I look forward to next season, the MP4/28 and a new McLaren thread rid of the clowns that have infected this one.

Sempre McLaren.

Edited by Lemans, 04 November 2012 - 23:35.


#241 SNiko

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:47

Pathetic team. :down: :down: They need to rename it because this garbage is a stain on Bruce McLaren's name.


Which name? Nowadays, McLaren has much, much more success than in Bruce McLaren's time.

#242 SNiko

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:00

Reality laid bare.

Sooner or later McLaren will realise they should have built the whole team around Hamilton and given him anything he wanted. They should have stroked his ego to a tee.

Whitmarsh WILL pay for this sooner or later.

Hamilton will be back. They will appreciate him more the next time around.


Where is Whitmarsh's fault? Do you really think he had any influence on Hamilton's decision? Whitmarsh did everything he could. The problem is that Hamilton just wanted to leave McLaren, that's it. It didn't matter for him which team he will join to and on which terms. McLaren could propose two times more money than Mercedes, but it would not change anything.

#243 engel

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:05

Where is Whitmarsh's fault? Do you really think he had any influence on Hamilton's decision? Whitmarsh did everything he could. The problem is that Hamilton just wanted to leave McLaren, that's it. It didn't matter for him which team he will join to and on which terms. McLaren could propose two times more money than Mercedes, but it would not change anything.


Well McLaren management had a choice in 2009, either keep a Kovaleinen type driver in the second car or hire Button. They chose Button. And from there they went with equality etc. The other choice would have been to stick with a slower number 2 driver and focus on Hamilton.

My personal opinion has always been that at the top equality is nice PR but to succeed you need a #1 and a #2 driver. McLaren chose to do it differently, it's their right, but it's also fair to speculate that this choice had some bearing in Hamilton deciding to move away from the team.

#244 Fox1

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:24

Where is Whitmarsh's fault? Do you really think he had any influence on Hamilton's decision? Whitmarsh did everything he could. The problem is that Hamilton just wanted to leave McLaren, that's it. It didn't matter for him which team he will join to and on which terms. McLaren could propose two times more money than Mercedes, but it would not change anything.



World Championship standings

Drivers:
1. Vettel 255
2. Alonso 245
3. Raikkonen 198
4. Webber 167
5. Hamilton 165


Constructors:
1. Red Bull-Renault 422
2. Ferrari 340
3. McLaren-Mercedes 318

No Excuse for this.


#245 SNiko

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:40

World Championship standings

Drivers:
1. Vettel 255
2. Alonso 245
3. Raikkonen 198
4. Webber 167
5. Hamilton 165


Constructors:
1. Red Bull-Renault 422
2. Ferrari 340
3. McLaren-Mercedes 318

No Excuse for this.


If follow your logic, there are no excuse for everybody except Horner.

#246 teejay

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:55

Where is Whitmarsh's fault? Do you really think he had any influence on Hamilton's decision? Whitmarsh did everything he could. The problem is that Hamilton just wanted to leave McLaren, that's it. It didn't matter for him which team he will join to and on which terms. McLaren could propose two times more money than Mercedes, but it would not change anything.


No point "doing everything he could" at the 11th hour when for 2 years before that he was treated as just another number in the cog.

As much as McLaren have given him, he has given them. The facial hair and all that now is pretty much a message to them that they can no longer control him.

To have car issues 4 races in a row is disgusting for a team of this level. It hurts me as much as a McLaren fan as it does a Lewis fan.



#247 TurboF1

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:27

No point "doing everything he could" at the 11th hour when for 2 years before that he was treated as just another number in the cog.

As much as McLaren have given him, he has given them. The facial hair and all that now is pretty much a message to them that they can no longer control him.

To have car issues 4 races in a row is disgusting for a team of this level. It hurts me as much as a McLaren fan as it does a Lewis fan.


Funnily enough it all happened right when he'd decided to leave the team. A whole bunch of failures that hasn't occurred in recent times, especially considering the new era of f1 cars where everything is super reliable, all things considered.


The gearbox gave up in Singapore

The rear suspension went haywire in Suzuka for a significant part of the race

The rear roll bar shit the bed in Korea

The fuel pump/pickup quits in Abu Dhabi.


Lets see what they can cook up for Austin. The worst part of it all, is ill be there to see this one in person. McLaren have become nothing but a joke. The only logical rationalization for all this that even begins to make a modicum of sense is that they seem to want one driver finishing ahead of the other to appear to save face. Yes, it defies the logic of racing for the constructors, but then again, they don't seem to do a lot of logical things lately. This whole year, when looked at in full total, has been McLaren doing their absolute best to ensure failure. Anytime they have a sniff of success, they do their best to lose. And they've become DAMNED good at it.
Any of the other top teams would've had both championships wrapped up at this stage if they had the mp4-27, even with the reliability issues, because at the start of the year, they would've maximized their results.

Edited by TurboF1, 05 November 2012 - 01:28.


#248 ViMaMo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:58

Well McLaren management had a choice in 2009, either keep a Kovaleinen type driver in the second car or hire Button. They chose Button. And from there they went with equality etc. The other choice would have been to stick with a slower number 2 driver and focus on Hamilton.

My personal opinion has always been that at the top equality is nice PR but to succeed you need a #1 and a #2 driver. McLaren chose to do it differently, it's their right, but it's also fair to speculate that this choice had some bearing in Hamilton deciding to move away from the team.


:up:

*can see big side to side head shakes from macca fans. Reasons: 1. Not fair to #2 driver 2. When you can have two WDC challengers, why stick with just one 3. Not going to help in WCC *

Just wondering if Lotus can catch Mclaren in WCC. Tough ask but two races 30 points away, who knows.

Edited by ViMaMo, 05 November 2012 - 02:00.


#249 Lemans

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:02

Funnily enough it all happened right when he'd decided to leave the team. A whole bunch of failures that hasn't occurred in recent times, especially considering the new era of f1 cars where everything is super reliable, all things considered.


The gearbox gave up in Singapore

The rear suspension went haywire in Suzuka for a significant part of the race

The rear roll bar shit the bed in Korea

The fuel pump/pickup quits in Abu Dhabi.


Lets see what they can cook up for Austin. The worst part of it all, is ill be there to see this one in person. McLaren have become nothing but a joke. The only logical rationalization for all this that even begins to make a modicum of sense is that they seem to want one driver finishing ahead of the other to appear to save face. Yes, it defies the logic of racing for the constructors, but then again, they don't seem to do a lot of logical things lately. This whole year, when looked at in full total, has been McLaren doing their absolute best to ensure failure. Anytime they have a sniff of success, they do their best to lose. And they've become DAMNED good at it.
Any of the other top teams would've had both championships wrapped up at this stage if they had the mp4-27, even with the reliability issues, because at the start of the year, they would've maximized their results.


Really?

So basically you're saying the team is screwing Lewis on purpose and they are failing on purpose?
Let me ask you this-If they are purposely trying to fail, why do it the hard way through constant sabotage throughout the season? Why not just build a crappy car from the outset to ensure they won't win a damn thing? Wouldn't that be easier and cheaper?

Give me a break. These conspiracy theories are just ridiculous.


Edited by Lemans, 05 November 2012 - 02:04.


#250 TurboF1

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:04

:up:

*can see big side to side head shakes from macca fans. Reasons: 1. Not fair to #2 driver 2. When you can have two WDC challengers, why stick with just one 3. Not going to help in WCC *

Just wondering if Lotus can catch Mclaren in WCC. Tough ask but two races 30 points away, who knows.


Going by the trend in the last 4 races, it's entirely possible. The very fact that McLaren are in a position where they may potentially finish 4th in the WCC this year is a sign of utter failure to convert the potential the car had into concrete results. Why I support this ragtag team of assclowns is beyond me. :rolleyes: