Jump to content


Photo

Mclaren MP4-27 Part IV


  • Please log in to reply
785 replies to this topic

#251 SNiko

SNiko
  • Member

  • 1,051 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:09

I'm sure that recent failures are due to the fact that McLaren is experimenting with components for 2013. So, don't pay too much attention on them.

Advertisement

#252 TurboF1

TurboF1
  • Member

  • 734 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:11

Really?

So basically you're saying the team is screwing Lewis on purpose and they are failing on purpose?
Let me ask you this-If they are purposely trying to fail, why do it the hard way through constant sabotage throughout the season? Why not just build a crappy car from the outset to ensure they won't win a damn thing? Wouldn't that be easier and cheaper?

Give me a break. These conspiracy theories are just ridiculous.


I'd almost prefer to believe they ARE than to admit they are as woeful as the current situation indicates. At least if I operate based off the assumption they are trying to fail, then things make more sense when you look at their performance as a whole. Sure, it's all a bit tongue in cheek, but what choice do I have? They've disappointed so much that I've come to expect it. That's what they have consistently delivered on... NEVER FAILING TO DISAPPOINT. You can't hold it against me if they've set the bar where it is now. I'm now more surprised if they deliver a win when there is a chance than the other way around. Don't blame me for that outlook, blame their history of failure and proven track record of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
:stoned:

#253 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,682 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:14

I am to lazy to go through all the threads tonight. Was an exact cause of Hamilton's failure ever determined? Was it a Mercedes part or was it a Mclaren installed parted?

Thank you very much.

edit: Thanks Turbo

Edited by Watkins74, 05 November 2012 - 02:23.


#254 TurboF1

TurboF1
  • Member

  • 734 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:16

I'm sure that recent failures are due to the fact that McLaren is experimenting with components for 2013. So, don't pay too much attention on them.


Who needs winter testing when you can just throw away valuable wins and points and potential championships by trying experimental parts doing actual grands prix?
I doubt that's the real root of the issues, but hey, that's only my opinion.

#255 TurboF1

TurboF1
  • Member

  • 734 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:17

I am to lazy to go through all the threads tonight. Was an exact of Hamilton's failure ever determined? Was it a Mercedes part or was it a Mclaren installed parted?

Thank you very much.


Supposedly fuel pump pressure/pickup issues. Similar to button in Italy I would guess.

#256 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 2,379 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:22

Where is Whitmarsh's fault? Do you really think he had any influence on Hamilton's decision? Whitmarsh did everything he could. The problem is that Hamilton just wanted to leave McLaren, that's it.


Hamilton wanted to leave because he had no hope in McLaren. Why is that?

#257 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 1,417 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:58

I hope for a return to form for both McLaren drivers in the remaining two racers and then to carry that into next season, my only disappointment is that I personally don't believe McLaren with have the drivers to topple Alonso or Vettel next season. I hope I am proved wrong but I just can't see it. Just bring on two McLaren 1-2 finishes from the last two races with Lewis signing off with a bang!

#258 SNiko

SNiko
  • Member

  • 1,051 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:03

Hamilton wanted to leave because he had no hope in McLaren. Why is that?


Has Ferrari better chances? Or maybe Mercedes? McLaren become boring for Hamilton after 6 years, that's why he decided to leave, and doesn't matter where, he just didn't want to be in McLaren anymore.

#259 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,222 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:39

I just want to say that you're overreacting and that you cannot say: "They need to rename it because this garbage is a stain on Bruce McLaren's name" that is pretty harsh. They have been in much worse situations before and they survived. Also they have been in much better position, there was a time when they dominated in F1. Until 2000 they were best team in F1 statistically, with more titles then Ferrari. Yes they have lost championships this season and that hurts big time, but also they have won 5 wins and 7 pole positions and created (again!) race winning car. Better this then nightmares from 2006 and 2009, for example. McLaren was/is always at the front, always with a solid, race winning car. In the past seasons they were always close (2nd) but unfortunately not enough because there was one team out of 10 that was better. Only one team better in a very competitive environment! But the stars will align again in the future for McLaren and their time will come again, I'm sure of it! They fall they rise..it's all the process.

Many say: "sometimes it's really hard to support McLaren" and I agree, I feel their pain, but every single victory, every pole position, every championship won by McLaren is super, super sweet for McLaren fans and they know this very well.

:up: :up:











Another :up: for good measure.

EDIT: I do think the 2006 was better than what was shown, though. I think it would have been a race-winner if Alonso or Lewis was at the wheel.

Edited by Seanspeed, 05 November 2012 - 03:41.


Advertisement

#260 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 3,590 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:11

The other thing that has angered me is the recent comments by Whitmarsh

- "we cant look back with regret" - are you serious, had you not thrown away so many points you would be leading the WDC and WCC. As a leader of a top line team with a history of brilliance and success, not being upset by this is not acceptable

- "we are here for race wins, not titles" Bullllsh*t!! Once again read above.

I would rather stop watching F1 than support A team other than McLaren, but this has been the most painful season.

#261 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,203 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:01

I'm sure that recent failures are due to the fact that McLaren is experimenting with components for 2013. So, don't pay too much attention on them.



And they are using LH's car as guinea pig, right?

#262 skakavac111

skakavac111
  • Member

  • 55 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:28

Going by the trend in the last 4 races, it's entirely possible. The very fact that McLaren are in a position where they may potentially finish 4th in the WCC this year is a sign of utter failure to convert the potential the car had into concrete results. Why I support this ragtag team of assclowns is beyond me. :rolleyes:


:up: :up: :up:



#263 mlsnoopy

mlsnoopy
  • Member

  • 2,356 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:30

Where is Whitmarsh's fault? Do you really think he had any influence on Hamilton's decision? Whitmarsh did everything he could. The problem is that Hamilton just wanted to leave McLaren, that's it. It didn't matter for him which team he will join to and on which terms. McLaren could propose two times more money than Mercedes, but it would not change anything.


But Hamilton wanted to leave beacause the team lost him 3 WDCs in the last 4 years.

#264 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:54

McLaren had reliability problems in the past, just ask Kimi. It is nothing new. The trick is to find the right balance between speed and reliability. Ferrari is often too conservative, McLaren takes too many risks.
Just look at the pitstops. Mclaren was the first to go below 3 seconds on a regular basis, but they had a few stops go wrong in the process. The other teams took longer to be as fast, but they had fewer problems.

#265 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 3,590 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:11

McLaren had reliability problems in the past, just ask Kimi. It is nothing new. The trick is to find the right balance between speed and reliability. Ferrari is often too conservative, McLaren takes too many risks.
Just look at the pitstops. Mclaren was the first to go below 3 seconds on a regular basis, but they had a few stops go wrong in the process. The other teams took longer to be as fast, but they had fewer problems.


Whitmarsh said on Friday that the team didnt take enough risks, they were too risk adverse.

#266 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:24

Nothing new. McLaren aims to dominate, not just to win. But that is their problem for 20 years (at least) now. It has nothing to do with Whitmarsh or is something new that poor Lewis had to endure.

Edited by seahawk, 05 November 2012 - 08:25.


#267 karlth

karlth
  • Member

  • 16,238 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:43

I'm sure that recent failures are due to the fact that McLaren is experimenting with components for 2013. So, don't pay too much attention on them.


Well I'm sure they are not. They were fighting for 1st or 2nd in the WCC, positions worth millions, so there is no way that they'd risk throwing wins away for something they could easily just test, if needed, during practice sessions.



#268 decoder

decoder
  • Member

  • 105 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:03

I had to laugh when I saw Hamilton slow down. Mclaren actually built a car comparable to Newey this year, but wasted it.

#269 andrewf1

andrewf1
  • Member

  • 468 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:30

I'm sure that recent failures are due to the fact that McLaren is experimenting with components for 2013. So, don't pay too much attention on them.


that's quite a silly excuse for the team, deep down you know that too.

#270 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 6,516 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:30

According to Vettel, McLaren cheated in Barca, it's that right or it was an error?.


Q: (Michael Schmidt - Auto, Motor und Sport)
Sebastian, you said before that yesterday was a mistake. How angry are you that this mistake happened? You don't have to be Einstein to calculate how much fuel has to go in for three laps, especially after it had already happened to Hamilton in Barcelona. Do you think the team should have been more careful?

Sebastian Vettel:
There are so many things that could have worked differently. I made a mistake on the last run, I aborted the lap, nobody ever finds out, nobody realises there was a problem. As I said earlier, it was a mistake, there was no intention to go stupidly close to the limit for a gain of nearly nothing. I think it's different to what happened to Lewis in Barcelona at the beginning of the season, obviously they deliberately put less fuel in the car and stopped on the in lap, but for us, we had enough fuel but somehow we had enough fuel on paper but not in the car. Obviously we stopped the car for emergency reasons, not to damage anything and then obviously it was quite a long procedure yesterday and unfortunately we couldn't drain the fuel that we wanted and it was not enough to provide the sample so it was as simple as that. Rules are clear. I think the penalty was very harsh but we had to take it. Rules are clear. If it happens to you in race three and you are in a similar position at the end of the year, nobody is asking and it's not a big fuss but if it happens to you three races from the end, obviously there's more attention etc. We had to live with that.



Page 6 link

#271 SNiko

SNiko
  • Member

  • 1,051 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:34

And they are using LH's car as guinea pig, right?


both cars

#272 SNiko

SNiko
  • Member

  • 1,051 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:37

But Hamilton wanted to leave beacause the team lost him 3 WDCs in the last 4 years.


McLaren wasn't bad, it is RBs were very good. Other teams were not even close to WDC.

#273 karlth

karlth
  • Member

  • 16,238 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:43

both cars


Neither. There is no way that McLaren would run experimental parts for next year with dubious reliability during a race in the current situation.

#274 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,827 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:46

According to Vettel, McLaren cheated in Barca, it's that right or it was an error?.





Page 6 link

Vettel should STFU.
He seems to know a lot about things happening in other teams.

#275 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,258 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:22

McLaren wasn't bad, it is RBs were very good. Other teams were not even close to WDC.


You mean WCC i suppose ?

Mclaren wasn't close in 2009, 2010 and 2012. Only last year, a Mclaren driver was close to a WDC.
A Ferrari driver was close in 2010 and 2012.

#276 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,476 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:29

Vettel should STFU.


He absolutely should. His team being found out on the hand-operated ride-height adjuster far exceeds human error (a clumsy mechanic pulling the fuel pump lever the wrong way) by McLaren.

#277 MrMontecarlo

MrMontecarlo
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:29

You mean WCC i suppose ?

Mclaren wasn't close in 2009, 2010 and 2012. Only last year, a Mclaren driver was close to a WDC.
A Ferrari driver was close in 2010 and 2012.


No it wasn't.

#278 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 1,417 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:33

Vettel should STFU.
He seems to know a lot about things happening in other teams.

I really can't stand Vettel tbh with you, like a serious amount of disliking for him. I don't really know why but the only thing I can put it down to is that he appears to me like a complete spoiled brat of a driver, and yes I know every driver is a spoiled brat to an extent. I mean like when he ran into the marker board after nearly collecting the Torro Rosso he went on something like "WHAT IS HE DOING, HE KEEPS JUST STOPPING!" when it was clearly a mistake on Vettel's part. Or maybe I just really have irrational hatred for him...

#279 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,258 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:38

No it wasn't.


Yes my bad. Button was never close. In fact, never a Mclaren driver was close to a WDC with the new regulation of 2009.

Advertisement

#280 noelspark

noelspark
  • New Member

  • 18 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:56

Where is Whitmarsh's fault? Do you really think he had any influence on Hamilton's decision? Whitmarsh did everything he could. The problem is that Hamilton just wanted to leave McLaren, that's it. It didn't matter for him which team he will join to and on which terms. McLaren could propose two times more money than Mercedes, but it would not change anything.


Unfortunately there is no one else to blame but Martin Whitmarsh for the string of piss poor performances and decisions of late. He is the main man in charge and has to take full responsibility and make the people work. I have been a loyal McLaren supporter for over 20 years and have to admit that it's never been as hard to support them as this season, but the team's management (Ron) has always managed to pull thru be it with strict tough management or securing top talent for performance development. I for one cannot imagine any of these McLaren failures slipping by without Ron Dennis having somebodies head on a plate in his day. I don't think Ron is very happy with how things are going either and it's evident by him attending more and more races.
Martin's (slick and slack) management style is at the root of McLaren's problems, and this blind Button love fest is de-railing the long term competitiveness and future of an once great team.
I don't blame Hamilton for moving on to Brawn's team at all, and hope we will have a TEAM again in the future that deserves having great drivers...

#281 David1976

David1976
  • Member

  • 816 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 13:08

Unfortunately there is no one else to blame but Martin Whitmarsh for the string of piss poor performances and decisions of late. He is the main man in charge and has to take full responsibility and make the people work. I have been a loyal McLaren supporter for over 20 years and have to admit that it's never been as hard to support them as this season, but the team's management (Ron) has always managed to pull thru be it with strict tough management or securing top talent for performance development. I for one cannot imagine any of these McLaren failures slipping by without Ron Dennis having somebodies head on a plate in his day. I don't think Ron is very happy with how things are going either and it's evident by him attending more and more races.
Martin's (slick and slack) management style is at the root of McLaren's problems, and this blind Button love fest is de-railing the long term competitiveness and future of an once great team.
I don't blame Hamilton for moving on to Brawn's team at all, and hope we will have a TEAM again in the future that deserves having great drivers...


I completely concur. In most industries the top man takes responsibility for repeated failure. Ever since Whitmarsh took the top job for the race team it has been like watching Ferarri from the 80's.
Like you I have followed and supported McLaren for a long time, but I cannot blame Lewis for leaving for Mercedes Benz.

From my armchair there seems to be a culture problem at McLaren and a company culture leads from the top.

#282 Lemans

Lemans
  • Member

  • 1,321 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:14

Going by the trend in the last 4 races, it's entirely possible. The very fact that McLaren are in a position where they may potentially finish 4th in the WCC this year is a sign of utter failure to convert the potential the car had into concrete results. Why I support this ragtag team of assclowns is beyond me. :rolleyes:


It's because you know deep down they will get past this dark period and get back to the top.

Believe me, I'm very angry and frustrated too but it will get better.



#283 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 2,145 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:29

It's because you know deep down they will get past this dark period and get back to the top.

Believe me, I'm very angry and frustrated too but it will get better.


I really would love to think like you but each season they disappoint us big time. With such a big history, good facilities and technology it is disheartening to see such inconsistency through the season. We are nowhere near as consistent as red bull, lotus and ferrari. We pay the price heavily for all of those cock-ups now

#284 Raziel

Raziel
  • Member

  • 2,079 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:37

Ok, just one question for people who blame MW.. Who would you put in place of Martin Whitmarsh? Do you know that Martin is at McLaren for over 20 years? He is a senior member of McLaren team, "old school McLaren guy" from Senna/Prost days and through all of these years he was a right hand of Ron Dennis! He wants best for McLaren and I trust him because just like Ron Dennis, Martin has McLaren in his veins and blood.

When something goes wrong people immediately blaming only one guy, in this case Martin. Same story in Ferrari world, fans immediately wanting Domenicali's head. I know that every man wants to be a winner and to be with the winners, but some people should realize that they cannot be winners all the time, people should learn that defeat and frustrations are also part of the game. When McLaren winning it is all nice and dandy, yay! When they're losing.. "burn them!" We can read some nasty stuff here..it is so sad.



#285 Roonaldo

Roonaldo
  • Member

  • 68 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:39

Have you seen the RB8 nose moving, like its made of rubber, when the mechanic removes the nosecone on the RB8 thread...

Well dodgy!

Edited by Roonaldo, 05 November 2012 - 17:40.


#286 Boxerevo

Boxerevo
  • Member

  • 1,924 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:44

Ok, just one question for people who blame MW.. Who would you put in place of Martin Whitmarsh? Do you know that Martin is at McLaren for over 20 years? He is a senior member of McLaren team, "old school McLaren guy" from Senna/Prost days and through all of these years he was a right hand of Ron Dennis! He wants best for McLaren and I trust him because just like Ron Dennis, Martin has McLaren in his veins and blood.

When something goes wrong people immediately blaming only one guy, in this case Martin. Same story in Ferrari world, fans immediately wanting Domenicali's head. I know that every man wants to be a winner and to be with the winners, but some people should realize that they cannot be winners all the time, people should learn that defeat and frustrations are also part of the game. When McLaren winning it is all nice and dandy, yay! When they're losing.. "burn them!" We can read some nasty stuff here..it is so sad.

Its not about it at all...i don't blame the team when winning is out of their grasp.

But,when we have the opportunity to win,we have to win,it's about the efficiency.

#287 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,827 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:57

Ok, just one question for people who blame MW.. Who would you put in place of Martin Whitmarsh? Do you know that Martin is at McLaren for over 20 years? He is a senior member of McLaren team, "old school McLaren guy" from Senna/Prost days and through all of these years he was a right hand of Ron Dennis! He wants best for McLaren and I trust him because just like Ron Dennis, Martin has McLaren in his veins and blood.

When something goes wrong people immediately blaming only one guy, in this case Martin. Same story in Ferrari world, fans immediately wanting Domenicali's head. I know that every man wants to be a winner and to be with the winners, but some people should realize that they cannot be winners all the time, people should learn that defeat and frustrations are also part of the game. When McLaren winning it is all nice and dandy, yay! When they're losing.. "burn them!" We can read some nasty stuff here..it is so sad.

Lately it didn't seem so and if he really and truly did then he failed, epicly.
I know he's been there since the late 80's, but there is a problem how he and ultimately his team go about the business.
Quantity (number of years at mac) is not quality.

#288 Fox1

Fox1
  • Member

  • 588 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 18:02

Ok, just one question for people who blame MW.. Who would you put in place of Martin Whitmarsh? Do you know that Martin is at McLaren for over 20 years? He is a senior member of McLaren team, "old school McLaren guy" from Senna/Prost days and through all of these years he was a right hand of Ron Dennis! He wants best for McLaren and I trust him because just like Ron Dennis, Martin has McLaren in his veins and blood.

When something goes wrong people immediately blaming only one guy, in this case Martin. Same story in Ferrari world, fans immediately wanting Domenicali's head. I know that every man wants to be a winner and to be with the winners, but some people should realize that they cannot be winners all the time, people should learn that defeat and frustrations are also part of the game. When McLaren winning it is all nice and dandy, yay! When they're losing.. "burn them!" We can read some nasty stuff here..it is so sad.

I'm sorry, but your post sounds like something Martin would say...and that isn't a compliment. This isn't a personnel issue, management sets the tone!
McLaren have been an abysmal failure this year and people (especially the press) need to call it as it is.

Perhaps Martin should run the Road Car program because I have serious concerns about him as TP.


#289 techspeed

techspeed
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 05 November 2012 - 20:40

I'm sorry, but your post sounds like something Martin would say...and that isn't a compliment. This isn't a personnel issue, management sets the tone!
McLaren have been an abysmal failure this year and people (especially the press) need to call it as it is.

I would have to go along with Raziels post, for those calling for Whitmarshs head, who should replace him? As Whitmarsh still has to report to Ron Dennis and the McLaren board, how would replacing one man in the McLaren management change how the whole company goes about its business? How does replacing Whitmarsh make the engineering department design faster, more reliable cars?

#290 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,827 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 05 November 2012 - 21:41

I would have to go along with Raziels post, for those calling for Whitmarshs head, who should replace him? As Whitmarsh still has to report to Ron Dennis and the McLaren board, how would replacing one man in the McLaren management change how the whole company goes about its business? How does replacing Whitmarsh make the engineering department design faster, more reliable cars?

It changes everything and if they don't even try then they will have to live with it for the unforeseeable future.
But that's really Ron's, Mansour's and the Bahrainis' problem.
If they're OK with it, then so be it.

#291 quasi C

quasi C
  • Member

  • 2,013 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 05 November 2012 - 21:49

I'm not sure if this has been posted already but it seems Martin Budkowski has been promoted to Head of Aerodynamics. He's made it all the way up the McLaren tech team in his field since joining from Ferrari 5 years ago and I think there were stories of Ferrari trying to poach him back earlier this year. So some changes are being made.

Edited by quasi C, 05 November 2012 - 21:51.


#292 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 4,956 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 05 November 2012 - 22:26

It's because you know deep down they will get past this dark period and get back to the top.

Believe me, I'm very angry and frustrated too but it will get better.


honestly I won't be so sure...with recent years where everyone is working on more equal budgetary footing, the resources McLaren have built up, the presence of a star driver...there is no reason the past years shouldn't have been glorious for Mac, atleast compete properly vs Red Bull... but they have failed. The future looks even bleaker with JB as their lead driver, operationally they look like they are regressing and falling apart...while their rivals are consolidating or getting stronger, won't be surprised if within 2 years, Merc are on the same level...with Ham there, s**t is gonna get even realier for Mac. Prospects of them winning anything except races here and there looks bleak to me. This era of closely matched cars and an inspired Newey, you need not just fast and reliable cars, but top drivers that can make a difference. Even if Mac magically get back the former, they lack the latter...

I may be wrong, and they build a rocketship for next year...but I doubt it. I actually wont be a bit surprised if LH wins a WDC at Merc before Mac win one.

Edited by bauss, 05 November 2012 - 22:28.


#293 Nycco

Nycco
  • Member

  • 264 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:30

Ok, just one question for people who blame MW.. Who would you put in place of Martin Whitmarsh? Do you know that Martin is at McLaren for over 20 years? He is a senior member of McLaren team, "old school McLaren guy" from Senna/Prost days and through all of these years he was a right hand of Ron Dennis! He wants best for McLaren and I trust him because just like Ron Dennis, Martin has McLaren in his veins and blood.

When something goes wrong people immediately blaming only one guy, in this case Martin. Same story in Ferrari world, fans immediately wanting Domenicali's head. I know that every man wants to be a winner and to be with the winners, but some people should realize that they cannot be winners all the time, people should learn that defeat and frustrations are also part of the game. When McLaren winning it is all nice and dandy, yay! When they're losing.. "burn them!" We can read some nasty stuff here..it is so sad.


Alain Prost.


#294 decoder

decoder
  • Member

  • 105 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:03

When judging the Mclaren this season , you have to separate Hamilton and Button's cars because their reliability has been quite different, also in regards to pitstop errors from memory. Apart from Monza, what issues has Button had with team reliability this season?

#295 sheepgobba

sheepgobba
  • Member

  • 1,080 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:14

When judging the Mclaren this season , you have to separate Hamilton and Button's cars because their reliability has been quite different, also in regards to pitstop errors from memory. Apart from Monza, what issues has Button had with team reliability this season?


I think there was one in Bahrain, but other than that nothing as far as i can remember

#296 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:15

anyway why blaming Martin for unreliability of the Hamilton's car? I highly doubt that he destroyed his car on purpose lol. Similar with pit stops and retarded team strategy (and the last is not by team principal)

#297 bogi

bogi
  • Member

  • 2,990 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:56

Put millions to develop the car.

Make it DNF (in the lead)



Fantastic logic guys :up:

#298 ianwit

ianwit
  • Member

  • 90 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:12

James Allen How the season fell away

#299 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,827 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:30

anyway why blaming Martin for unreliability of the Hamilton's car? I highly doubt that he destroyed his car on purpose lol. Similar with pit stops and retarded team strategy (and the last is not by team principal)

Because he is the boss, I'd like to think that the boss imposes a certain work ethic that strives for excellence that is reflected in every aspect of the team.
VodafoneMcLarenMercedes F1 is far away from any kind of excellence.
And if he can't lead the team to a similar kind of perfection that RBR and Ferrari are currently delivering then maybe he isn't cut out for it.

Edited by peroa, 06 November 2012 - 09:34.


Advertisement

#300 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:37

Because he is the boss, I'd like to think that the boss imposes a certain work ethic that strives for excellence that is reflected in every aspect of the team.
VodafoneMcLarenMercedes F1 is far away from any kind of excellence.
And if he can't lead the team to a similar kind of perfection that RBR and Ferrari are currently delivering then maybe he isn't cut out for it.

but maybe he has bad luck, or car is maybe fragile. Or components sucks. I dunno how he could avoid last DNFs (though India is different matter -> no work ethic at all over there)