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Mclaren MP4-27 Part IV


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#301 Kvothe

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:39

James Allen How the season fell away


James has clearly plagerised my signature :p

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#302 cokeb

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:58

At least Sam Michael seems to have straighted out their pit stop errors.

#303 karlth

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:01

At least Sam Michael seems to have straighted out their pit stop errors.


Only for reliability problems to kick in instead.



#304 BernieEc

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:10

Button dosen't seem to like the MP4-27. Quite critical of it to be honest

Button critical of MP4-27

My Worst year at McLaren

didn't know he felt that bad this year

#305 Buttoneer

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:18

Threads for discussing Whitmarsh;
http://forums.autosp...mp;hl=Whitmarsh
http://forums.autosp...mp;hl=Whitmarsh

Thread for discussing Hamilton's point loss this season;
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=176952

Thread for discussing RBR rubber nosecone;
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=176989

Threads for discussing Sam Michael;
http://forums.autosp...;hl=sam michael
http://forums.autosp...;hl=sam michael

All those threads are open and available for you to discuss those issues with other forum members. This thread is about the technical developments on the car. Please keep to topic.

#306 peroa

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:22

Button dosen't seem to like the MP4-27. Quite critical of it to be honest

Button critical of MP4-27

My Worst year at McLaren

didn't know he felt that bad this year

The 27 is the best car McLaren have produced since 2008.
If not for various screw ups which have nothing to do with the speed of the car, it would be more than a worthy WDC&WCC contender.
Quite a stab in the back from the new team leader, isnt't it?

Edited by peroa, 06 November 2012 - 11:51.


#307 Massa

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:33

I don't understand Button statement.... Because at the start of the year, the day where Mclaren show for the first time the car, if i remember well, he said that this car was the result of a good work between him and the engineers etc.. like if the car was design around him... I think before Singapore he was very happy with the car... and now it's the worst car he drove at Mclaren ?

#308 peroa

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:38

I don't understand Button statement.... Because at the start of the year, the day where Mclaren show for the first time the car, if i remember well, he said that this car was the result of a good work between him and the engineers etc.. like if the car was design around him... I think before Singapore he was very happy with the car... and now it's the worst car he drove at Mclaren ?

You remember well.

#309 Bartel

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:39

Alain Prost.

Couldnt even run his own team.

Also, I think the car was heavily tipped into Hamiltons favour after his strong start to the season, could just be me though, cos Jenson loved the car in melbourne "welcome 2009" if i remember correctly, only off pole in Malaysia by a tenth etc

#310 Massa

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:49

You remember well.



Thanks.

That day was a shocker for me, i'm not a Mclaren fan, but for me Hamilton was the boss of the team. And thay day, i've seen Button the boss, the first man to speak about the car, and Hamilton was there, like a rookie. Really, it was a shocker.

#311 Jamiednm

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:49

I don't understand Button statement.... Because at the start of the year, the day where Mclaren show for the first time the car, if i remember well, he said that this car was the result of a good work between him and the engineers etc.. like if the car was design around him... I think before Singapore he was very happy with the car... and now it's the worst car he drove at Mclaren ?


He's covering his back for what has been a sub-par season from him. He has definitely underperformed, given the machinery at his disposal and the performance of his teammate.

#312 Shiroo

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:51

I don't understand Button statement.... Because at the start of the year, the day where Mclaren show for the first time the car, if i remember well, he said that this car was the result of a good work between him and the engineers etc.. like if the car was design around him... I think before Singapore he was very happy with the car... and now it's the worst car he drove at Mclaren ?

Button being a Button. if he can't beat his teammate he says that car is bad, is not designed for him, or has lost all grip/balance/frontwings/rearwings/is tyreless/his wooden eye felt out.
This is probably the best McLaren speedwise for like 3 years for sure. Reliability sucks, but only in Hamilton's car, so Button has no excuses. He just is really inferior driver compared to Hamilton, that's all.

McLaren has hard times ahead of him, unless next year McLaren will be fast than everyone by 1sec I cant see them getting any title. And they may even drop in WCC to 5th with Button as lead, and perez as new.

#313 ElDictatore

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:01

Because he is the boss, I'd like to think that the boss imposes a certain work ethic that strives for excellence that is reflected in every aspect of the team.
VodafoneMcLarenMercedes F1 is far away from any kind of excellence.
And if he can't lead the team to a similar kind of perfection that RBR and Ferrari are currently delivering then maybe he isn't cut out for it.


Well, you don't know how it looks like on the isnide of the team, so saying it is his imposed work ethics is just a guess. Moreover not all reliability problems were down to McLaren themselves, although there have been to much on their side this season.
Did anyone want to kick out Dennis after the the debacles from 02-06 with cars much more unreliable than this one?

Edited by ElDictatore, 06 November 2012 - 12:03.


#314 Fourjays

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:49

Button being a Button. if he can't beat his teammate he says that car is bad, is not designed for him, or has lost all grip/balance/frontwings/rearwings/is tyreless/his wooden eye felt out.

As much as I like Button this is what I'd put it down to as well. He always moans when he is behind his teammate. It really didn't surprise me after qualifying when he said there wasn't any grip/balance...

#315 moorsey

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:50

Well, you don't know how it looks like on the isnide of the team, so saying it is his imposed work ethics is just a guess. Moreover not all reliability problems were down to McLaren themselves, although there have been to much on their side this season.
Did anyone want to kick out Dennis after the the debacles from 02-06 with cars much more unreliable than this one?


There is a very old saying "the buck stops here" which is common to all businesses where the MD's job is to make sure that the company runs effectively. Whether that means sacking people who aren't pulling their weight and hiring new blood or setting up systems to ensure that everyone knows what to do in each position. There is no way of hiding, if the comapny isn't working properly it's the boss' fault.

#316 jrg19

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:50

Anything new been spotted at the young driver test?

#317 Brandz07

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:54

He's covering his back for what has been a sub-par season from him. He has definitely underperformed, given the machinery at his disposal and the performance of his teammate.


He's also covering it so that he can say the car suits him better next year and that Lewis wouldn't of done any better...;)

#318 silversurf3r

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 16:26

Anything new been spotted at the young driver test?


I've not spotted anything new but there's a few pics here:-

GP update


#319 alframsey

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 16:49

I really don't understand Button's comments, the 27 is the best car McLaren have built since Lewis won the WDC in 2008. Much better than last year and 2010, it just seems Jenson is trying to explain away his own under performance. I am absolutely dumbfounded at how Lewis is only 12 points ahead of Button though, given how well Lewis has drove this season and how piss poor Jenson has been for large parts.

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#320 cooper

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 16:58

The car for the best part of the year has been very strong. Going into next year they will certainly need to look at development areas such as rear wing stalling, better optimisation of the exhaust gases to seal the diffuser and obviously the general reliability of the car. There is also the issue of figuring out why we suffer in cool/wet conditions (comparative to other teams).

Then we can hope that our race strategies generally get better and we continue the good pit stops and we may just be in a good position again.. (He says holding his breath)...

#321 noelspark

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 17:21

Because he is the boss, I'd like to think that the boss imposes a certain work ethic that strives for excellence that is reflected in every aspect of the team.
VodafoneMcLarenMercedes F1 is far away from any kind of excellence.
And if he can't lead the team to a similar kind of perfection that RBR and Ferrari are currently delivering then maybe he isn't cut out for it.

+1 Spot-on :up:

#322 noelspark

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 17:39

Well, you don't know how it looks like on the isnide of the team, so saying it is his imposed work ethics is just a guess. Moreover not all reliability problems were down to McLaren themselves, although there have been to much on their side this season.
Did anyone want to kick out Dennis after the the debacles from 02-06 with cars much more unreliable than this one?

The answer to that is quite simply No, we all knew then that the reliability issues were with the Mercedes-Benz engines used and not the Team slipping up... :smoking:

#323 Absulute

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 17:42

The answer to that is quite simply No, we all knew then that the reliability issues were with the Mercedes-Benz engines used and not the Team slipping up... :smoking:


And who decided on the Benz partnership?

#324 noelspark

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 17:51

And who decided on the Benz partnership?

Quite right that was Ron's decision and we had to live with it as at the time they had no options because of the buy-in. The point remains thou that it was Mercedes-Benz reliability and not the team's fault...

Edited by noelspark, 06 November 2012 - 17:55.


#325 TurboF1

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 17:55

I really don't understand Button's comments, the 27 is the best car McLaren have built since Lewis won the WDC in 2008. Much better than last year and 2010, it just seems Jenson is trying to explain away his own under performance. I am absolutely dumbfounded at how Lewis is only 12 points ahead of Button though, given how well Lewis has drove this season and how piss poor Jenson has been for large parts.



Not counting all the shitty pitstops dropping him into traffic earlier in the year, and other random bad luck like being the 7th/8th car to drive through debris at germany but being the only one to
get a puncture, The team has cost Lewis a definite shot of 3 big points haul at Barcelona with underfueling him for qualy, the gearbox DNF at Singapore, and the Fuel issue at Abu Dhabi. Thats easily 75 points alone gone through team cockups. Sure, Jenson has had the team let him down when he was in a strong position (Monza fuel pump cost him 2nd/3rd) but Lewis has by and far been on the shitty end of any kind of luck this year.

The quality of the driving between the 2 this year has been a massive, MASSIVE gulf.

#326 ElDictatore

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 18:08

The answer to that is quite simply No, we all knew then that the reliability issues were with the Mercedes-Benz engines used and not the Team slipping up... :smoking:


The Mp4-18 was most certainly not Mercs fault. The -17, -19 and -21 were slow from the get go. Moreover the fule pump problems are delivered by Merc as stated from Whitmarsh and Paffett. So it's not all the teams fault (most certainly not Whitmarsh's), although there have been too many mistakes this season.

#327 pingu666

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:40

guys on forums always call for peoples heads when they do something wrong or percived to have.

if people really where ejected that often the chern of staff and drivers would be hilarious :D

#328 mlsnoopy

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:55

Button dosen't seem to like the MP4-27. Quite critical of it to be honest

Button critical of MP4-27

My Worst year at McLaren

didn't know he felt that bad this year


Maybe he is right and it just shows what a great job Hamilton did with the worst McLaren in the last 3 years.

#329 Nycco

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:15

Button reminds me of Valentino Rossi not being able to extact performance from the Ducati while Stoner was winning races and doing poles with it just like Lewis has done. You either adapt to the machine or you don't, this is where you really see the best drivers from the good ones. Next year we will struggle with Button and Perez. Fighting for 7th on the grid while the car would have potential for 1st row with a driver like Lewis/Alonso/Vettel.

#330 skakavac111

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:21

Button reminds me of Valentino Rossi not being able to extact performance from the Ducati while Stoner was winning races and doing poles with it just like Lewis has done. You either adapt to the machine or you don't, this is where you really see the best drivers from the good ones. Next year we will struggle with Button and Perez. Fighting for 7th on the grid while the car would have potential for 1st row with a driver like Lewis/Alonso/Vettel.



Stoner best driver Rossi good driver. This is BS....


#331 Lazy

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:27

Button reminds me of Valentino Rossi not being able to extact performance from the Ducati while Stoner was winning races and doing poles with it just like Lewis has done. You either adapt to the machine or you don't, this is where you really see the best drivers from the good ones. Next year we will struggle with Button and Perez. Fighting for 7th on the grid while the car would have potential for 1st row with a driver like Lewis/Alonso/Vettel.


Rossi is probably the greatest GP rider of all time, are you trying to suggest that he is not great?

#332 Lazy

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:29

Button reminds me of Valentino Rossi not being able to extact performance from the Ducati while Stoner was winning races and doing poles with it just like Lewis has done. You either adapt to the machine or you don't, this is where you really see the best drivers from the good ones. Next year we will struggle with Button and Perez. Fighting for 7th on the grid while the car would have potential for 1st row with a driver like Lewis/Alonso/Vettel.


Actually a very good example, just shows that even the greatest can have problems if the machinery does not suit them.

#333 David1976

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:01

The McLaren MP4-27 has been a strong car, no matter what Button may allude to. A car that generates 8 poles in one year is clearly among the best on the grid.
Sadly, Button hasn't been able to maximize the MP4-27 this year but I suspect the reality is that the McLaren's of the last few years have suited Button as much as they have Hamilton, particularly as the race team seem to favour him.

I can see 2013 being a bit grim for McLaren unless they can find a way of making their car a top qualifier, as their drivers are not inherently quick enough over a single lap to do the job.

My gut tells me that Hamilton will wring more out of 2013 at Mercedes Benz than Button will at McLaren...

#334 EvanRainer

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:02

That is a terrible example and has nothing to do with the situation at McLaren. The Ducati is a terrible bike.

#335 Bartel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:15

I will say this once, 2013 will be different, Button at McLaren in 2013 will be different because for the first time, the car will be 100% designed soley around him and what he wants, which is only logical as they have no idea about Sergio yet, and Lewis is leaving, so I really dont think people can read anything into it yet, we all know very well what Button is capable of in a car that is to his liking, Brawn first half of season, last years McLaren, I am quite confident. Lewis/Jenson had very different driving styles and preferences, that is gone now and there won't have to be compromise, yes the car would have been started with Lewis in mind but it isnt that late in development that it can't be changed or altered, lets look forward to the next two races because the winter is long, dull boring and very pain staking.

#336 engel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:20

cars aren't designed "around" drivers, that's an urban myth (obviously aside from accommodating tall/large/whatever drivers). It's not like the designers sit in their office and say Oh bob likes oversteer, lets jiggle the rear end a bit. They don't. They try to design a balanced car, beyond that cars are developed to drivers' input, and that's where it helps to have one development route instead of two.

#337 Bartel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:24

cars aren't designed "around" drivers, that's an urban myth (obviously aside from accommodating tall/large/whatever drivers). It's not like the designers sit in their office and say Oh bob likes oversteer, lets jiggle the rear end a bit. They don't. They try to design a balanced car, beyond that cars are developed to drivers' input, and that's where it helps to have one development route instead of two.

Ahhh...yes thats what im talking about, at the end of the day the numbers may say something but unless the driver can extract the potential its meaningless, front wings on the 21 for example. Driver confidence is king when extracting pace from a car and if its developed to jensons liking you will see a complete turnaround

#338 cooper

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:41

Ahhh...yes thats what im talking about, at the end of the day the numbers may say something but unless the driver can extract the potential its meaningless, front wings on the 21 for example. Driver confidence is king when extracting pace from a car and if its developed to jensons liking you will see a complete turnaround

I don't think that the car has been this years weakness for us. Perhaps coming into the latter half, but for the first half of the year it was mostly team strategies and poor pit stops that cost us so dearly. Jenson in the 09 brawn car definitely got the job done, but a huge part of that was the advantage that the double diffuser gave the team.. Once other teams were allowed to use either a double diffuser or KERS Jenson suddenly didn't look so spectacular.

Please don't get me wrong I think Jenson is a super driver, he has moments of brilliance which is a delight to watch.. But I really liked the balance of aggressive and conservative that Jenson and Lewis had/have in McLaren. Will Perez fill the gap of getting the McLaren on Pole we don't know, but that hasn't been something Jenson has been able to really do to date!

At least coming into next year we now have good pit stops and will address the area of reliability, and we know Jenson can bring in points.. But is he going to be a contender for the 2013 WDC? I don't think so, only unless the 28 has something which makes it superior to the other cars

#339 stevesingo

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:38

cars aren't designed "around" drivers, that's an urban myth (obviously aside from accommodating tall/large/whatever drivers). It's not like the designers sit in their office and say Oh bob likes oversteer, lets jiggle the rear end a bit. They don't. They try to design a balanced car, beyond that cars are developed to drivers' input, and that's where it helps to have one development route instead of two.


You are correct but designers use historical data in order to make engineering assumptions/predictions, and a large proportion of that data is generated by the car being driven bt the driver.

In simplistic terms we have , downforce, geometry, weight distribution CofG ect and "driver input". This input causes the car to perform and the performance is logged creating data that is used for the assumptions/predictions. If you give the car to two different drivers you get two different datasets from the performance. Which data set do you give most weight to when formulating your assumptions/predictions? We may well have a case that due to LH having been in the team longer than JB that more weight is given to LH data set, or engineers will look at the cosequences of the two datasets and conduct a risk assessment on to which parts of each they use in order to maximise performance.

Wil they dump LH data for next year? Probably not, but there wil be another years worth of JB data to work with and some of the risk assesment to negate the negetive parts of LH data might be dropped and more effort put in to the negetive parts of JB's data.

Perez will have to just live with it.



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#340 peroa

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:48

You are correct but designers use historical data in order to make engineering assumptions/predictions, and a large proportion of that data is generated by the car being driven bt the driver.

In simplistic terms we have , downforce, geometry, weight distribution CofG ect and "driver input". This input causes the car to perform and the performance is logged creating data that is used for the assumptions/predictions. If you give the car to two different drivers you get two different datasets from the performance. Which data set do you give most weight to when formulating your assumptions/predictions? We may well have a case that due to LH having been in the team longer than JB that more weight is given to LH data set, or engineers will look at the cosequences of the two datasets and conduct a risk assessment on to which parts of each they use in order to maximise performance.

Wil they dump LH data for next year? Probably not, but there wil be another years worth of JB data to work with and some of the risk assesment to negate the negetive parts of LH data might be dropped and more effort put in to the negetive parts of JB's data.

Perez will have to just live with it.

Well, they've been saying that JB's input is exceptional. There are various interviews from Lowe, Neal etc. saying that they value his input and follow his direction, blindly.
The 27 was designed with JB in mind, he was there over the winter in the factory while LH was sent on holiday for a month or so, also repeated multiple times in various interviews.
He was their main developer.
For him now to come out and say that the 27 is the worst car since 2010 while his teammate is doing "rather well" with it is not very teamplayer like, to put it mildly.

Edited by peroa, 07 November 2012 - 12:52.


#341 moorsey

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:01

Well, they've been saying that JB's input is exceptional. There are various interviews from Lowe, Neal etc. saying that they value his input and follow his direction, blindly.
The 27 was designed with JB in mind, he was there over the winter in the factory while LH was sent on holiday for a month or so, also repeated multiple times in various interviews.
He was their main developer.
For him now to come out and say that the 27 is the worst car since 2010 while his teammate is doing "rather well" with it is not very teamplayer like, to put it mildly.


Spot on. :up: :up:

#342 D.M.N.

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:29

William Esler ‏@WilliamEslerF1
new front wing for mclaren? http://pic.twitter.com/YAsHwTdf
1:26 PM - 7 Nov 12

https://twitter.com/...169848298606593

#343 f1fastestlap

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:40

"McLaren looks set to finish runner-up in the constructors' championship for the second consecutive season and is turning more and more of its attention to next year's car. The team has already said that it wants to adopt an evolutionary approach to its 2012 car and Lowe said Button's feedback is central to that as well as the car for 2014, when the regulations are set for an overhaul."

"The answer is crucial," Lowe responded when asked by ESPNF1 during the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes phone-in how important Button is for development. "Having a good driver with good feedback is essential still in Formula One even though these days we have far more tools to work with and more simulations etcetera. We are still very reliant on the drivers' feedback for the changes and indeed his suggestions for the changes we make.

"Having Jenson on board for years to come is now a great step, because it [provides] a very solid base in terms of a driver that we can rely on for feedback through that phase that you described [up to 2014]. Jenson obviously is very experienced and was for many years before he even came to McLaren, so that all contributes."


:lol: :lol:

#344 Seanspeed

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:49

Button dosen't seem to like the MP4-27. Quite critical of it to be honest

Button critical of MP4-27

My Worst year at McLaren

didn't know he felt that bad this year

Well Button, dont expect a huge change next year....

I think he's frustrated with how sensitive the MP4-27 can be to various factors. Button has shown he can go perfectly well and win races in the car if conditions/variables are ideal, but the smallest change seems to drop him back quite a bit and he's understandably not very happy in those situations.

Thats the name of the game, though. You've gotta adapt to what you're given and make the most of it. If Button is unable to do this as well as others, its likely why he's not considered in the top echelon of drivers.

Well, they've been saying that JB's input is exceptional. There are various interviews from Lowe, Neal etc. saying that they value his input and follow his direction, blindly.
The 27 was designed with JB in mind, he was there over the winter in the factory while LH was sent on holiday for a month or so, also repeated multiple times in various interviews.
He was their main developer.
For him now to come out and say that the 27 is the worst car since 2010 while his teammate is doing "rather well" with it is not very teamplayer like, to put it mildly.

Please give me a source where they've said in an interview that they've blindly followed his input and direction.

Also, saying the car was designed with Button in mind is ridiculous. I'm sure Lewis spent plenty of time at Woking, too. The car was designed to be fast and it was developed by designers and engineers, not Button.

Edited by Seanspeed, 07 November 2012 - 13:52.


#345 stevesingo

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:49

Well, they've been saying that JB's input is exceptional. There are various interviews from Lowe, Neal etc. saying that they value his input and follow his direction, blindly.
The 27 was designed with JB in mind, he was there over the winter in the factory while LH was sent on holiday for a month or so, also repeated multiple times in various interviews.
He was their main developer.
For him now to come out and say that the 27 is the worst car since 2010 while his teammate is doing "rather well" with it is not very teamplayer like, to put it mildly.


I don't suppose someone who hates JB could come up with anything more objective.

JB's input may well be valued, but the driver input is not the only thing that engineering assumptions/predictions are made. There were many unknowns about the tyres pre season for example. And, this is probably the thing that caught McLaren out. I suspect a little too much weight was put on the assumption that the tyres degrade really fast in excess temps whilst negating the the need to keep them warm enough to work. Not such an issue for LH but JB struggles with temps.



#346 sheepgobba

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:51

"McLaren looks set to finish runner-up in the constructors' championship for the second consecutive season and is turning more and more of its attention to next year's car. The team has already said that it wants to adopt an evolutionary approach to its 2012 car and Lowe said Button's feedback is central to that as well as the car for 2014, when the regulations are set for an overhaul."

"The answer is crucial," Lowe responded when asked by ESPNF1 during the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes phone-in how important Button is for development. "Having a good driver with good feedback is essential still in Formula One even though these days we have far more tools to work with and more simulations etcetera. We are still very reliant on the drivers' feedback for the changes and indeed his suggestions for the changes we make.

"Having Jenson on board for years to come is now a great step, because it [provides] a very solid base in terms of a driver that we can rely on for feedback through that phase that you described [up to 2014]. Jenson obviously is very experienced and was for many years before he even came to McLaren, so that all contributes."


:lol: :lol:


What a load of nonsense by Lowe, Mclaren will be struggling next year without Hamilton.

No wonder why Hamilton left Mclaren with garbage like this.

#347 bogi

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:59

William Esler ‏@WilliamEslerF1
new front wing for mclaren? http://pic.twitter.com/YAsHwTdf
1:26 PM - 7 Nov 12

https://twitter.com/...169848298606593



Oh, look!

Actual MP4-27 post :eek:

#348 karlth

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 14:07

What a load of nonsense by Lowe ...


The quote is from 2011.

#349 engel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 14:14

You are correct but designers use historical data in order to make engineering assumptions/predictions, and a large proportion of that data is generated by the car being driven bt the driver.

In simplistic terms we have , downforce, geometry, weight distribution CofG ect and "driver input". This input causes the car to perform and the performance is logged creating data that is used for the assumptions/predictions. If you give the car to two different drivers you get two different datasets from the performance. Which data set do you give most weight to when formulating your assumptions/predictions? We may well have a case that due to LH having been in the team longer than JB that more weight is given to LH data set, or engineers will look at the cosequences of the two datasets and conduct a risk assessment on to which parts of each they use in order to maximise performance.

Wil they dump LH data for next year? Probably not, but there wil be another years worth of JB data to work with and some of the risk assesment to negate the negetive parts of LH data might be dropped and more effort put in to the negetive parts of JB's data.

Perez will have to just live with it.



not really. The design process is simulation (including wind-tunnel, rigs etc) not really historical data, because they have no data on that particular package. A specific suspension setup will not influence two aerodynamically different cars the same. Driver input comes after the car starts running, before it does it's basically the designer trying to optimize drag vs downforce and grip vs tyre degradation. Now if the car comes up and you have say an issue heating up the tyres (that's the objective issue) the designers and engineers will try to figure out a way to solve that problem. There may be 5 different ways to solve it, that's where driver input comes into play and you get into the subjective solutions. It's basically the whole forks in the road thing. Every change you make puts you on a different fork in the development process.

#350 BernieEc

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 14:46

McLaren to remain with Mercedes for foreseeable future

http://www.totalf1.c..._with_Mercedes/
http://www.totalf1.c...seeable_future/

However, there have been rumours linking McLaren with a switch to either Honda or possibly even Craig Pollock's PURE company.
Whitmarsh has poured cold water on these suggestions, insisting that they are happy to have Mercedes as an engine supplier even though they are now in essence a customer of a company that has their own F1 team.
"It is going to be McLaren Mercedes for quite a few years to come," Whitmarsh told the the Daily Mail.
"It is a good partnership and it works well. We've been together for 18 years and it is going to continue for quite a few years to come.
"I think we have got a very good deal with them, but I think more importantly than that is we have got a good partnership.
"Obviously I've been involved with Mercedes personally. I ran the engine side so we know the people, and we are proud to be part of the Mercedes-Benz family."