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Ferrari F2012 part IV


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#651 topical

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:42

Blocking in Q2? Came on. And Michael is not fighting for title now, so different situation.
After Webber penalty, if Michael get penalty Alonso will go on dirty side again. :rotfl:


Which is why I expect only one of them to get a penalty. But then apparently Massa is also in the stewards office, so they could penalise all 3 and then Alonso starts from p.5, which would just be farcical.

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#652 reason

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:43

Maybe Alonso could start from the pitlane and start with harder tires, and then drive the whole race with them and pit on the last lap and finnish in the pitlane.....??!

Didn't Schumacher do that ones!? He got a drive thru penalty and saved it to the last lap and crossed the finnish line in the pitlane and won. :clap:

#653 AlexS

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:43

The Alonso bashing is stupid.


Well when he is below Massa, and by 0.4 Alonso "bashing" is deserved.

#654 fololo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:55

Well when he is below Massa, and by 0.4 Alonso "bashing" is deserved.

Race day we are doomed! We used q2 tyres ... its over

#655 Hanzo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:57

What are you doing here , counting penalties? Title won this way will be a joke. Even Ferrari admitted they are where they are by LUCK. And nothing else. Alonso will cry his way to the title.



No penaltys at the end. And I am not counting anything, just giving the info that Alonso and Schumacher were called to investigate the incident.
Alonso will cry his way to the title? I am happy with that, it is better way than crashing your car in purpose twice against your championship rivals, parking your car in Monaco, etc...

#656 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:00

Well when he is below Massa, and by 0.4 Alonso "bashing" is deserved.


No mate, "bashing" isn't deserved. Yes Fer was rubbish today, when he needed to be much better. Yes Felipe was better, but Fernando has hardly put a foot wrong this year, & everyone makes mistakes. Criticizing him is well deserved, but bashing isn't IMHO.

The car still has Quali issues. Race pace will be good tomorrow but Fer is starting too far back IMO. Up until a few races ago, I think the team deserved it, but as MichaelPM posted, Ferrari don't deserve the title right now. It's the sad hurtful truth. :((

#657 ivand911

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:03

No penaltys at the end. And I am not counting anything, just giving the info that Alonso and Schumacher were called to investigate the incident.
Alonso will cry his way to the title? I am happy with that, it is better way than crashing your car in purpose twice against your championship rivals, parking your car in Monaco, etc...

Yes, Michael was ruthless, but he was not crybaby.


#658 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:05

Well when he is below Massa, and by 0.4 Alonso "bashing" is deserved.


Only if you completely ignore that the car has an influence in F1.

#659 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:06

Yes, Michael was ruthless, but he was not crybaby.


Hurray for selective perception.

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#660 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:08

any confirmation on the tires used in q3 being from q2?


http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104339

#661 ivand911

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:10

Hurray for selective perception.


http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104345

The near-miss prompted furious gestures and angry radio messages from Alonso.

But after looking into the incident, the officials decided no action was required as neither driver was on a flying lap at the time.

"Both drivers advised that they were on their first (preparation) lap of a multi-lap stint and were able to continue their respective laps," said a stewards' statement.

Drivers like Alonso should be punished in this case, for accusing others in wrongdoing.

Edited by ivand911, 17 November 2012 - 22:12.


#662 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:11

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104345


Dude I have watched Schumacher's F1 career from the first race, don't try to tell me he never complained.

#663 Anonymous

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:14

they are where they are by LUCK. And nothing else. Alonso will cry his way to the title.


:up:

#664 Pyrone89

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:17

Not to be a party pooper, but I do not see a WDC happening for Alonso on merit of performance. Seeing the Red Bull pace and their points advantage we need something to go wrong 2 races in a row for Vettel to lose this title. Since Grosjean is demoted and Maldonado isn't anywhere near him, he only needs to worry about the reliability of his Red Bull.

#665 Pyrone89

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:20

So what is the news today?

:smoking:

To be fair, that Mercedes has a 7x WDC in it. The guy in it finally had a session where his car finally acted in the way it should after having a dozen of race weekends where his cars keeps falling apart.

#666 1Devil1

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:20

Dude I have watched Schumacher's F1 career from the first race, don't try to tell me he never complained.


Of course every driver did that from time to time. Alonso is embarrassing himself by overdoing it. Waving, crying over the team radio is his standard procedure even in "Non"-situations like today. I don't get nor like it. Great driver but his on track behavior is annoying sometimes

#667 emburmak

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:22

Dude I have watched Schumacher's F1 career from the first race, don't try to tell me he never complained.


So have I. MS was never a whinger. Much as I admire FA, his whinging at times is grating. :cool:


#668 Pyrone89

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:23

Of course every driver did that from time to time. Alonso is embarrassing himself by overdoing it. Waving, crying over the team radio is his standard procedure even in "Non"-situations like today. I don't get nor like it. Great driver but his on track behavior is annoying sometimes

Yeah, there is 0,0 point in waving your hands. It is not like MSC is gonna notice that at that speed, in the middle of corner (thus not looking his mirrors)

#669 One

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:28

Was Massa run a old specification diffuser, which is yet again quicker than new?

#670 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:28

So have I. MS was never a whinger. Much as I admire FA, his whinging at times is grating. :cool:


Yeah sometimes it is, but the guy is in the middle of a WDC battle, and MS has also done annoying things under stress, everyone does, and the majority of us here have fallen apart over less.

#671 AlexS

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:33

Criticizing him is well deserved, but bashing isn't IMHO.


I put bashing with "" because someone was saying that a critique of Alonso was bashing.

For several races on Alonso arrives Friday with serious issues, most of time he can make up the difference to Massa until Qualifying but it is just by a nick.
I wonder why Alonso arrives Friday with a miserable car.

#672 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:35

I put bashing with "" because someone was saying that a critique of Alonso was bashing.

For several races on Alonso arrives Friday with serious issues, most of time he can make up the difference to Massa until Qualifying but it is just by a nick.
I wonder why Alonso arrives Friday with a miserable car.


I was that someone, and I did not say that a critique is bashing. But some of the stuff that was written was not critique.

#673 topical

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:46

So, no penalty for either Webber or MSC. That means Alonso starts 8th, with Grosjean and Maldonado directly behind him, and from the dirty side of the track. I will actually be surprised if this time tomorrow Vettel is not champion.

#674 One

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:48

No mate, "bashing" isn't deserved. Yes Fer was rubbish today, when he needed to be much better. Yes Felipe was better, but Fernando has hardly put a foot wrong this year, & everyone makes mistakes. Criticizing him is well deserved, but bashing isn't IMHO.

The car still has Quali issues. Race pace will be good tomorrow but Fer is starting too far back IMO. Up until a few races ago, I think the team deserved it, but as MichaelPM posted, Ferrari don't deserve the title right now. It's the sad hurtful truth. :((


In a way very disappointing to read your note, 'cause Fernando performed so well this year and Ferrari team put him down in so may occasions. I do think that Fry has to go.

#675 Creepy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:56

What I've personally have read mostly today in the forum in regards to Alonso has been more like bashing (and even insults, see the qualy thread) than just critics. I really hope nobody regrets tomorrow such wording...

#676 Enzoluis

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:00

I really hope nobody regrets tomorrow such wording...


I hope to see many regreting what they said tomorrow


#677 SCUDmissile

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:27

What I've personally have read mostly today in the forum in regards to Alonso has been more like bashing (and even insults, see the qualy thread) than just critics. I really hope nobody regrets tomorrow such wording...

it has been that way for the past couple races. I got to be honest, Alonso HAS been poor lately in Quali IMO. (Poor by his standards)

But in the races he has been better than ever also.

So...

#678 Disgrace

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 00:07

I hope to see many regreting what they said tomorrow


:up:

#679 weareracing

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 00:29

Indeed.
What the Ferrari F2012 lacks over 1 qualifying lap, Fernando can make it work in race trim when it matters.
Sebastian rescued himself in Abu Dhabi with a podium from the pit-lane.
DO NOT discount Fernando tomorrow, the race is 56 laps long and much can happen.
I just hope that the "dirty side" of the grid and turn 1 don't conspire against him.
If he can finish lap 1 with an undamaged car and in P8 or above.....................watch out for some Fernando magic and................Red Bull unreliability :smoking:
Interlagos for the decider with a wet qualifying/raceday :kiss:

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#680 CF22

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 00:33

Alonso did the best he could and so has the team, unfortunately qualifying this time did not play out as expected, we're humans after all and who knows what that RB8 has under it's skin. So what if he didn't qualify ahead of Massa, he's done it all year long and last year as well, that's much better than many other drivers including Vettel who failed to qualify and finish ahead of Webber a few times earlier this year.

I hope tomorrow some here have to eat their words, in F1 it ain't over till the fat lady sings. Fernando might very well still win this championship, remember, as he always says points are given out on Sunday and Ferrari have built a bulletproof car. If not, there's always next year or the one after that, after all, winning a championship with Ferrari or McLaren for that matter takes way more merit than wining five with the poser team that is Red Bull.

#681 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:01

Poser team? They delivered incredible work, like it or not.

#682 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:33

I've just read we used scrubbed tyres in Q3...was that scrubbed tyres from practice or the same tyres from Q2? Surely not the tyres from Q2, then they'd already have close to a race stint on them! They must be referring to one of the sets that did one lap in practice?

#683 exogenesis1203

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:36

I've just read we used scrubbed tyres in Q3...was that scrubbed tyres from practice or the same tyres from Q2? Surely not the tyres from Q2, then they'd already have close to a race stint on them! They must be referring to one of the sets that did one lap in practice?

I thought the tires in practice are given back to Pirelli after practice
You have 3 brand new option and prime for qualifying and race


#684 JBLeon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:36

I wander how much "we have to evaluate the data and find out what we're doing wrong" Emilio Botin (Santander) is going to take.

Banks are performance-oriented institutions and I bet they are not happy at all at their money being thrown at a team that puts out such a useless clusterfück on wheels.

Fernando was fighting his car today like a possessed madman, turning his steering wheel almost 90º in a barely 30º turn. It's insane! On the other hand, Vettel's onboard camera shows him putting in minimal input in the same turn.

Edited by JBLeon, 18 November 2012 - 02:37.


#685 kosmos

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:46

Is it really so hard for you to admit that Alonso was crap.


I already did, but you read what you want to read as always.


#686 Heasven

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:52

Man this is the first race im attending in my life and it feels like torture and waste of money to see vettel dominate all weekend long. it's so depressing having to go to race day hoping for a rival DNF but what the heck the race is still tomorrow.

#687 OO7

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:56

Man this is the first race im attending in my life and it feels like torture and waste of money to see vettel dominate all weekend long. it's so depressing having to go to race day hoping for a rival DNF but what the heck the race is still tomorrow.

Chin up, anything can happen on Sunday, remember Valencia?

#688 ViMaMo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:19

How is it that Alonso is at fault while both the cars are more than 1 second slower than Vettel's RBR and Lewis's Mclaren? I can accept his mistakes like from 2010, jumping start etc where we had a car that could compete with the Red Bull. But this is just ridiculous !!

U expect inch perfect qualifying and race from Alonso in a car that can barely qualify into top 6. For pundits who said Austin was going to play into Ferrar's strengths.... :wave: nor will Brazil.

#689 bmardini

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:22

How is it that Alonso is at fault while both the cars are more than 1 second slower than Vettel's RBR and Lewis's Mclaren? I can accept his mistakes like from 2010, jumping start etc where we had a car that could compete with the Red Bull. But this is just ridiculous !!

U expect inch perfect qualifying and race from Alonso in a car that can barely qualify into top 6. For pundits who said Austin was going to play into Ferrar's strengths.... :wave: nor will Brazil.


The car has no strengths

Oh wait. Its reliable (yippee). Race pace is good. Sort of car that a midfield team would love to have.

#690 Ferrari2183

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:31

I already did, but you read what you want to read as always.

I don't want to get into this too much but you said the real problem is the car not 2 - 3 bad qualifying performances.

I think that is fair enough but let me just put this out there. The presumption that the car is a dog is plain wrong, Massa's Q2 time was good enough for 4th on the grid.

So all things considered everybody failed.



#691 jeze

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:41

How is it that Alonso is at fault while both the cars are more than 1 second slower than Vettel's RBR and Lewis's Mclaren? I can accept his mistakes like from 2010, jumping start etc where we had a car that could compete with the Red Bull. But this is just ridiculous !!

U expect inch perfect qualifying and race from Alonso in a car that can barely qualify into top 6. For pundits who said Austin was going to play into Ferrar's strengths.... :wave: nor will Brazil.


I thought so after looking at sketches where I though S1 was basically going to be flat out and like driving in a straight line, then I watched Google Earth and almost fell in a coma. Why the f*ck can't Tilke design one effing track which is about low downforce????

#692 AlainProstX

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:43

This feels like going into the last round of a box fight, knowing you are down on points and only a lucky punch can save you.

F1 is sometimes really unfair

#693 topical

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:50

I hope to see many regreting what they said tomorrow


I think we will all be very happy if we have to regret what we said by tonight.
Anyhow, only 10 hours to go till we find out whether Alonso has a future as a prophet with his "funny feelings".

#694 kosmos

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:07

I don't want to get into this too much but you said the real problem is the car not 2 - 3 bad qualifying performances.

I think that is fair enough but let me just put this out there. The presumption that the car is a dog is plain wrong, Massa's Q2 time was good enough for 4th on the grid.

So all things considered everybody failed.



Never said the car it's a dog, because I say the problem it's the car you want to assume that I'm saying that the car is crap and I didn't. If you review the year, what do you think has been the main problem for Ferrari?. I support not only Fernando but the team too, they win and lose together so don't try to twist my words into Alonso is god, Ferrari is crap.

Edited by kosmos, 18 November 2012 - 09:09.


#695 currupipi

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:39

weird really weird, massa was able to better his fp3 time considerably in q 2 , then i dont know what happened to him in q3, alonso hardly even bettered his fp3 time in q2 and then even worse in q3, the funny or not so funny thing is that their running in fp3 was compromised with the yellow and they basically had to hurry up to put on the medium tires, i actually hope massa just had a bad q3 and alonso was just crap all q sessions, if not and they changed something on the cars we may not be as competitive in race trim as we expect and to make matters even better we start on the dirty side with both cars, the weekend just keeps on getting worse :(

#696 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:45

weird really weird, massa was able to better his fp3 time considerably in q 2 , then i dont know what happened to him in q3, alonso hardly even bettered his fp3 time in q2 and then even worse in q3, (...)


I think because the car was simply not competitive over one lap, they tried what they could and - as we know - ended up thinking it was a good idea to run q3 on used tyres. Maybe also because with nearly new tyres they would have been murdered during the first race laps. We will see how this works out. Would be hilarious to see their used tyres being the only ones to somewhat work in the first phase of the race.

#697 currupipi

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:54

I think because the car was simply not competitive over one lap, they tried what they could and - as we know - ended up thinking it was a good idea to run q3 on used tyres. Maybe also because with nearly new tyres they would have been murdered during the first race laps. We will see how this works out. Would be hilarious to see their used tyres being the only ones to somewhat work in the first phase of the race.


i know we need something strange for us to end up at the front but i think you are asking for too much :lol: we need something i think both cars are going to lose positions at the start, really not to positive about this race , lets see what happens, the qualy pace has really been our undoing this year.

#698 Frank

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:55

No official replies from Technical guys or they are lost themselves?

#699 TigersWood

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:56

Yes Luca?

I thought you were not gonna call!

I thought you wanted to waste Alonso's best years with a car that qualyfies 6th for 5 years!

I thought your technical team was the best, that you revolutionazed the F1 cars..... Ok I stop joking.

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#700 topical

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:59

Gary Anderson thinks Alonso's qualy problems were down to the new diffuser messing up how the DRS works, or vice versa. If he's right, then hopefully the issue will be minimised in the race.
I think the biggest problem at the start today is the dirty side. Yesterday on Sky they said that people who start from the dirty side are expected to lose one to two rows off the starting grid. That would be a total disaster and with cars going into turn 1 all out of position carnage is almost inevitable.