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Ferrari F2012 part IV


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#1701 sheepgobba

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 14:45

Stefano Domenicali has confirmed the Maranello Wind Tunnel is closed so that it can b upgraded and fixed.


Is there any information when the tunnel will be back and operational?

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#1702 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:07

I remember India clearly. It was flexing so much it was almost comical. All I'm saying is Ferrari seems a step behind in this area. I'm not bashing the team. Just giving my thoughts on what I saw. Ferrari also underestimated the performance drop post-DDD ban and set very conservative targets. Something needs changing in there and while I'm quite impressed with the way Pat Fry reorganized the structure, they seem to be still lacking in something. Of course they are still much better than most of the grid, but we have to compare them to the benchmark teams that are RBR and McLaren. I want a rocketship Ferrari as much as you mate!

I agree it was sort of funny. I think they did fairly well to get as far as they did in such a short time. I believe Ferrari is behind RB in quite a few simulation areas. But this is the job of Aerodynamic Engineer Ben Agathangelou, to integrate the latest simulation tools into the team & help get tunnel issues sorted. He does not/will not work directly with the 2013 car.
The addition of Sanchez & Bigois will help as well and they will certainly have a large role in the 2013 car.

It's closed now, can't understand why. :confused:

Good question. It seems all the new car threads were closed not just the Ferrari one.

Is there any information when the tunnel will be back and operational?

Not really. Only thing we have to go on is Montezemolo's words:

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo says the Italian squad plans to shut down its windtunnel in order to verify it is working properly.

The Italian squad suffered issues with data correlation during the 2011 season, with its car not delivering the increase in downforce that windtunnel data suggested some updates should offer.

Di Montezemolo believes the team's performance this year has also been affected by the inconsistency of the windtunnel data, and says that Ferrari's team boss Stefano Domenicali has made the decision to shut it down during the winter until the problems are fixed.

Last year, the Maranello squad revealed it was using Toyota's windtunnel in order to develop its car.

"The real trouble is that sometimes the data matches and this creates even more confusion," Montezemolo was quoted as saying by Gazzetta dello Sport.

"Domenicali has reached a conclusion: to shut down our windtunnel for a while and do our tests elsewhere, in order to verify and re-calibrate everything. It will take time.

"I don't know whether this will happen in December or January, it's up to him: I have absolute faith in Domenicali."


#1703 sheepgobba

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:16

Not really. Only thing we have to go on is Montezemolo's words:

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo says the Italian squad plans to shut down its windtunnel in order to verify it is working properly.

The Italian squad suffered issues with data correlation during the 2011 season, with its car not delivering the increase in downforce that windtunnel data suggested some updates should offer.

Di Montezemolo believes the team's performance this year has also been affected by the inconsistency of the windtunnel data, and says that Ferrari's team boss Stefano Domenicali has made the decision to shut it down during the winter until the problems are fixed.

Last year, the Maranello squad revealed it was using Toyota's windtunnel in order to develop its car.

"The real trouble is that sometimes the data matches and this creates even more confusion," Montezemolo was quoted as saying by Gazzetta dello Sport.

"Domenicali has reached a conclusion: to shut down our windtunnel for a while and do our tests elsewhere, in order to verify and re-calibrate everything. It will take time.

"I don't know whether this will happen in December or January, it's up to him: I have absolute faith in Domenicali."


Doesn't feel me with much confidence, especially regarding the updates introduced this year did not necessarily work after using the Toyota tunnel

#1704 kosmos

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:39

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This friday Stefano and some people from the team will be in Madrid to take part in a special event, there is a Q&A session planned with Stefano, I expect hard hitting question, will report back :yawnface:

Edited by kosmos, 27 November 2012 - 15:40.


#1705 fabr68

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:44

Ferrari should rethink if a F1 where you need to spend a lot of money in flex materials and wind tunnels and you are not allowed to improve engines and make test in your own circuit is worth to be at. I do not have problems with Newey inventing flex wings and blowing engines, but let me try to beat him not with his weapons but with mines. If not as engines are freezed why not to go with a standard chasis?


I fully agree. I think Ferrari needs to get tougher on fighting to be able to use the strengths and resources.

Break the agreement of not using their private test track. It is not different than Red Bull breaking the agreement over spending.

Without a working wind tunnel, they are going to need the Fiorano circuit more than ever before.


#1706 douglasross

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 15:59

For over fifty years Ferrari relied on their private test tracks for updates and to ensure that they all worked. Other teams developed wind tunnels and simulators for this purpose. Give Ferrari time to catch up and they will again be the leading team in F1, as they should be. Yes we have not won a championship for a couple of years but I, unfortunately, am old enough to remember the lean years of the 80's and 90's without a WDC OR WCC.
KEEP THE FAITH FORZA FERRARI

#1707 rsaca

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:27

It's closed now, can't understand why. :confused:


From D.M.N.

"Hi,

I've closed a few threads regarding 2013 cars this evening. The reason being for the closure is that the majority of the details contained inside the threads is speculative.

When there is some concrete news or even good rumours about that particular car, then a thread can be started. At the moment the only purpose for a thread would be for fans of that particular team to say 'the car is good' and for people whom are not fans to say 'the car is bad'.

Thanks!

Edit: Please do not try and circumvent this by starting general team or off-season threads for general fan talk, start a new thread for discussing something specific if the topic warrants it or use one of the existing threads."


#1708 H2H

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:33

Are there any plans to built a new airtunnel?

IIRC on a flying lap show a British? ex-Ferrari engineer talked about the Ferrari one and that he was told that it not only had to be functional but also be stylish.

Personally I liked from an engineer's point of view how Ferrari pulled of their front pull-rod suspension. Ted Kravitz talked about some rumours of Ferrari switching back to the 'conventional' outline. With so little time to go Ferrari has certainly this piece in place and I have heard nothing from the Italian side about potential changes in this regard. The F2012 will have collected a massive amount of important data on the subject and I doubt that this decision had a particular negative influence on tyre management apart from possibly the first races of the season.

Edited by H2H, 27 November 2012 - 17:36.


#1709 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:04

Last video from Piola on the last of the F2012 updates via AMuS.

http://www.auto-moto...ri-6180979.html

#1710 rsaca

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:16

I just read Ferrari will present the FIA two videos which show Vettel overtook a Toro Rosso on Yellow Flags.

Source: Ferrari presenta 2 videos a la FIA demostrando que Vettel adelantó en banderas amarillas.

#1711 Der Pate

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:19

I just read Ferrari will present the FIA two videos which show Vettel overtook a Toro Rosso on Yellow Flags.

Source: Ferrari presenta 2 videos a la FIA demostrando que Vettel adelantó en banderas amarillas.


And this is the time, when Ferrari should be banned from F1! Not only damaging the sport in Austin with the starting-grid-farce...now they start to deny the outcome of the championship...

#1712 toxicfusion

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:32

Nothing to that video. Whilst Seb does seem to cut it fine, as the previous light was yellow he passed when the light was green and that would have applied to the whole track.

Either Red Bull timed it to perfection and told him to pass or Seb was just lucky it changed when it did.

Edited by toxicfusion, 27 November 2012 - 18:33.


#1713 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:37

And this is the time, when Ferrari should be banned from F1! Not only damaging the sport in Austin with the starting-grid-farce...now they start to deny the outcome of the championship...


Banned, right.

1. This is a journalist claiming this to be the case, so far Ferrari hasn't done anything

2. Even the journalist does not say that they would do this to change the outcome. He just states that a penalty would change things. It must certainly be allowed to show the referee videos of misjudgments he made, in order to improve refereeing. It's normal, e.g., in football for team leaders and regulator to sit down together at times to review developments in the sport, and also quality of refereeing. Videos are used in these meetings. It wouldn't hurt F1 either.

3. One could argue that the result should be immutable when the game is over, like in football, refereeing errors be damned. I can understand that wish. But F1 necessarily cannot have a policy as strict, for the possibility of technical infringement. Certainly if it turned out in winter post-season that a team's car was blatantly illegal all season, everyone would agree the results should be nullified (edit: though it's fine that at some point, I think December, the result is set in stone). Because of that necessary openness, everyone involved may be quicker to look back with a view of changing results retroactively than a footie manager would, for whom it would be a completely alien idea. If it happens in F1, it's absolutely no reason to show faux righteous indignation.

By the way, the link now has a video of the alleged incident. Difficult to see anything, I can't tell yet.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 27 November 2012 - 20:39.


#1714 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:40

Nothing to that video. Whilst Seb does seem to cut it fine, as the previous light was yellow he passed when the light was green and that would have applied to the whole track.

Either Red Bull timed it to perfection and told him to pass or Seb was just lucky it changed when it did.


OK, got to the point in that video now. He does overtake before passing the green light, but what are the rules? Is it green as soon as I can see the light upfront on the straight, or is it green only after I drove by the light? No idea.

#1715 toxicfusion

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:44

OK, got to the point in that video now. He does overtake before passing the green light, but what are the rules? Is it green as soon as I can see the light upfront on the straight, or is it green only after I drove by the light? No idea.



I have no idea, but the incident being cleared up was into the the following corner (I think from the mini replay in the bottom right), so I assumed it would be green along the straight.

I just went from them freezing while the light is in the distance and assumed they said it was yellow (I can barely make it out)

#1716 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:52

I have no idea, but the incident being cleared up was into the the following corner (I think from the mini replay in the bottom right), so I assumed it would be green along the straight.

I just went from them freezing while the light is in the distance and assumed they said it was yellow (I can barely make it out)


I see. Seems to me there is a blinking yellow light on the right hand at 1:53, then he overtakes at 1:58. And then a green light left-hand at 1:59. But it's weird video with all the freezes, the picture is small, etc. FIA should be able to tell though, they must have timestamped logs of the lights? Oh it's FIA, who knows. This video does not seem to be enough to wish for an overturned result.

#1717 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:59

OK, got to the point in that video now. He does overtake before passing the green light, but what are the rules? Is it green as soon as I can see the light upfront on the straight, or is it green only after I drove by the light? No idea.


It's not green or yellow until after you pass the light in question. In other words the green doesn't apply until you reach and pass the light.


@Der Pâté Ferrari inquired about the Austin incident with Whiting before they did it. It was within the rules. Not much different than Seb getting around his AD penalty by taking another additional penalty to have the ability to change the car so he could easily go through the field. Something that would have been impossible in the Quali spec car.


FTR I don't want Ferrari to make a stink about this, and don't think they will. On to 2013!! :up:

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 27 November 2012 - 19:00.


#1718 naiboz

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:59

well on sky, davidson or mcnish said there was effectively a line across the track at the lights, and the track is green from that point onwards

sooooo

going by that vid, he overtook under yellows

but, wont change anything, seasons over

roll on next year

#1719 ArkZ

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 19:33

First of all let's not discuss Vettels overtakes in Ferrari thread, there were already few threads for this problem.
Secondly there was also controversial video with Vettel overtaking HRT you can check on youtube, and I hear that you can overtake when you pass a line. The line is few meters before the lights ,Vettel was MEGA lucky with this overtakes when he jumped HRT it was like 100 centimetre before "yellow line" and on video posted above he overtook car like 50 centimetre after "green line" as i said he was masterful lucky in this race, but I'am not sure just hear that, someone who knows rules should say something!

Edited by ArkZ, 27 November 2012 - 19:45.


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#1720 Der Pate

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:00

@Der Pâté Ferrari inquired about the Austin incident with Whiting before they did it. It was within the rules. Not much different than Seb getting around his AD penalty by taking another additional penalty to have the ability to change the car so he could easily go through the field. Something that would have been impossible in the Quali spec car.


I really want to know, who came first with that stupid argument, that you can compare Austin to Abu Dhabi, which is totally different...in the future no team would sacrifice his grid-position for car-setup-changes...but following the Ferrari-Austin-logic, teams like Ferrari could sacrifice not only their own team-member but blackmail other drivers or teams such as Ferrari their engine-customers an therfore buy grid-positions...

#1721 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 20:24

I really want to know, who came first with that stupid argument, that you can compare Austin to Abu Dhabi, which is totally different...in the future no team would sacrifice his grid-position for car-setup-changes...but following the Ferrari-Austin-logic, teams like Ferrari could sacrifice not only their own team-member but blackmail other drivers or teams such as Ferrari their engine-customers an therfore buy grid-positions...


That's a bit of a stretch don't you think? One could say that RBR owning STR has bought them positions on track. You can clearly see in Brazil that the Toro Roso's refuse to even try to race Vettel for position but instead move over and let them by. What exactly do you call that mate? That's not racing. That's not really even team orders because technically they are separate teams yet the TR's promptly move right over when a Red Bull is coming. You didn't see Sauber moving over for Fernando did you? No, in fact KOB passed Fernando at one stage. The double standards are very funny.

What Ferrari did in Austin was perfectly legal. Other teams have said it was a very smart move. You don't have to like it, but it's nothing to e banned over and in my opinion it's not any different then what RB did in AD.

Red Bull got a penalty for not having enough fuel for a fuel sample. A penalty is punishment by the way. RB was to start at the back of the grid as punishment for not having enough fuel to sample. If Seb would have started from the back of the grid with the exact same setup he had in Quali, he would have not made it to 8th place, much less the podium. And Red Bull knew this fact. So they decided to incur an additional penalty on themselves in order to completely change the car. So much that they could potentially wipe out the original penalty.

What the did was not illegal. It was smart, just like what Ferrari did. Nothing illegal about either but much alike.



#1722 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:06

The latest Ferrari F2012 updates from Piola via AMuS


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All images via Amus

A video of the updates can be found here--> http://www.auto-moto...ri-6180979.html

#1723 Der Pate

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:10

Excuse me but in my opinion it´s the spirit of racing, when I try to set up my car as good as I can...it is not the spirit, when I sacrifice one of my team-members just to start on the "right" side...

#1724 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:13

Excuse me but in my opinion it´s the spirit of racing, when I try to set up my car as good as I can...it is not the spirit, when I sacrifice one of my team-members just to start on the "right" side...


Fine if you have your opinion, Fangio had his own. If sacrificing your team mate for you own gain is not in the spirit of racing, then F1 never had any (and I think I agree with that, but I love F1 for what it is).

#1725 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:23

Excuse me but in my opinion it´s the spirit of racing, when I try to set up my car as good as I can...it is not the spirit, when I sacrifice one of my team-members just to start on the "right" side...


So it's not ok to sacrifice a team member for the "right" side but its ok that Mark sacrifices his position in the race so Seb can finish higher? It's ok that a completely different team, that RB just happen to own, it's ok for them to sacrifice their positions in the race for their big brother team? What about Mark being told to hold his position at Silverstone? Or Red Bull taking the wing off Marks car to give to Seb?

There's an old expression, it's called " talking out of both sides of your mouth". Meaning saying one thing and also saying the exact opposite. It can't be wrong to sacrifice a team member in one situation but not in others. It's black & white mate. No gray area.

#1726 Der Pate

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:25

Fine if you have your opinion, Fangio had his own. If sacrificing your team mate for you own gain is not in the spirit of racing, then F1 never had any (and I think I agree with that, but I love F1 for what it is).


I knew this race already and I was aware, that this argument could come...but it will not change my mind...Barrichello and Massa as well stopped being racing-drivers the first time, they moved over for their team-mate...I love racing and I love F1...but I hate such bad tactics...

#1727 Showty

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 21:32

I still found so amazing some people can talk about spirit of sport, what is good, what is bad, ethics and this and that.

This is F1, this is not amateur karting, teams have to do what they need to within the rules to achieve their goals, and as long as they admit that straight i´m ok.


Edited by Showty, 27 November 2012 - 21:34.


#1728 Arry2k

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:09

Are there any plans to built a new airtunnel?

IIRC on a flying lap show a British? ex-Ferrari engineer talked about the Ferrari one and that he was told that it not only had to be functional but also be stylish.

Personally I liked from an engineer's point of view how Ferrari pulled of their front pull-rod suspension. Ted Kravitz talked about some rumours of Ferrari switching back to the 'conventional' outline. With so little time to go Ferrari has certainly this piece in place and I have heard nothing from the Italian side about potential changes in this regard. The F2012 will have collected a massive amount of important data on the subject and I doubt that this decision had a particular negative influence on tyre management apart from possibly the first races of the season.

No plans for a new wind tunnel as far as I am aware - ultimately the Red Bull tunnel (albeit totally renovated and upgraded to incorporate the latest technology) was built in the 1950s and is totally fit for purpose as is evidenced by their results in the last three seasons. I would say that, provided that the latest upgrades work and the wind tunnel correlates with real world data as well as any other teams tunnel, there really should be no need to start anew.

Yes you are right it was Willem Toet (who is British/Australian according to the Sauber website) on the Flying Lap. The reason it had to be stylish was, IIRC, to reduce the planning costs. I think if they argued it was designed to attract people, like a monument or a place of interest, then it reduced the planning fees they had to pay the local council.

I don't know if the pull rod front suspension is staying, Cruicial Extreme provided a link in the now locked Ferrari 2013, thread that they will continue with it. Ultimately, not much has been said about the suspension since the start of the season, so I guess that it must be working well.



#1729 Callisto

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:47

great pictures of the F2012 :up:

#1730 TIFOlonSO

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 22:54

What a fantastic and crazy race this was!
Epic drive from Alonso this year and epic come back from Ferrari (well at least till Monza).
Great work done by Massa in this last races!
And most of all cheers to Alonso and Ferrari true 2012 champions!

#1731 ViMaMo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:39

Fantastic pics of the F2012 !! :clap: :up:

#1732 Obi Offiah

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:16

The latest Ferrari F2012 updates from Piola via AMuS

A video of the updates can be found here--> http://www.auto-moto...ri-6180979.html

Those are amazing pictures. I wonder how long it took him to model them?

#1733 Bartel

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:21

Those are amazing pictures. I wonder how long it took him to model them?

+1

#1734 kosmos

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:16

"First, even a rock like (Fernando) Alonso is not endlessly resilient. The title fight against (Sebastian) Vettel, usually with a slower car, has exhausted him.

"I also believe that a number of improvements to the Ferrari have matched Massa's style of driving more than Alonso's," he added.



http://formula-one.s...unches-in-2012/

I think there is some truth in that quote, not taking away anything from Massa that has done a fantastic job in the second part of the season and Brazil for me was his best race since Brazil 2008.

#1735 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:46

@CrucialXtreme - Sincere thank you for the images. I'm following Piola's work for quite some time, I have most of the tech bibles at home, but the amount of details never fail to amaze me, awesome work. I hope to have the chance to meet him next year.

#1736 Shiroo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:19

http://formula-one.s...unches-in-2012/

I think there is some truth in that quote, not taking away anything from Massa that has done a fantastic job in the second part of the season and Brazil for me was his best race since Brazil 2008.

then team made improvements that instead fittin most Alonso, fit Massa more instead? That's ridiculous (I'm sure that as a team they could somehow know what their lead driver would prefer to have improved)

#1737 bmardini

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:58

then team made improvements that instead fittin most Alonso, fit Massa more instead? That's ridiculous (I'm sure that as a team they could somehow know what their lead driver would prefer to have improved)


Please let me try to explain how a car might be better for one driver vs another. I will use the example of GT race cars, since I'm quite familiar with them personally:

The Porsche GT3Cup is a pain to drive. Very, very difficult, tricky, and the learning curve is extremely steep. A fairly experienced GT driver can hop into the Cup for the first time and be 3s off the pace and then spend ages to get to within 1s of the pace. An amateur driver will be 5s off the pace easily, if not more. When I say amateur, I don't mean someone off the street btw. I mean someone who knows what they are doing but is not a pro.

Then you have the GT3R, which is the FIA-GT version. A lot faster than the Cup. This car has TC, ABS, lots of neat aero, and the car works. Very easy to drive, very easy to extract the "limit" out of. Typically the difference between a top pro and an amateur driver is 1-2s.

Then you've got something like the Z4M GT3 car, which has ESP! or the Merc SLS GT3 car. Diff between factory driver and joe-blow is about 1s. Sometimes even less. The pros hate these cars because all their hard earned talent and experience is for nought because you can stick in a decent amateur who pays for the seat and he will only be 0.5s off the pace. In endurance racing the problem becomes particularly acute (since you never run completely flat out anyway)

So, what does this mean? It means a MEGA driver will be able to extract the limit out of a tough car, whereas a weaker driver needs the car to come to him. Both can drive good cars at the limit - simply because a good car is easier to take to the limit Ferrari maybe made the car more driveable, more consistent and this helped FM, but ultimately the car wasn't much quicker.



#1738 ViMaMo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:13

Red Bull - 7 wins, 7 podiums, 8 non scoring races.
Mclaren - 7 wins, 6 podiums, 12 non scoring races.
Ferrari - 3 wins, 12 podiums, 8 non scoring races.

We should have atleast 6 wins this season.

#1739 ArkZ

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:59

I think your podiums stats are wrong in all teams, Fernando alone scored 13 podiums..+2 from Felipe ,so should be 15. Ok you not count wins as podiums.

Edited by ArkZ, 28 November 2012 - 10:06.


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#1740 One

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:02

Red Bull - 7 wins, 7 podiums, 8 non scoring races.
Mclaren - 7 wins, 6 podiums, 12 non scoring races.
Ferrari - 3 wins, 12 podiums, 8 non scoring races.

We should have atleast 6 wins this season.


At the veryt first sight, I thou8ght it was Ferrari who had the greatest car. After all it pvroved to be not. I am eager to know why. I go tmy huntchj which is .... smile...

1. Rear end body work around rear tyre was too high. This obstructed the smooth flow towards the rear wing, which ultimately costed the rear end down force, hence ending up in unbalanced car.
2. Nose. Reg did not help. buyt aero team lacked one tiny bits of imagination how to make profit our of it. Sauber excelled.
3. Exhaust. Was great, but not the best solution. I still think that the last one from Newey is performing the best, but it might have reached the ceiling already. Sauber solution ius still a solid starting point when it could incooporate coanda effect in a way that it could improve a lot during the season.

Actually I have no idea why and what I am writing it. :yawnface: Just a rant of tech enthusiast I assume...

Edited by One, 28 November 2012 - 10:02.


#1741 kosmos

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:18

Red Bull - 7 wins, 7 podiums, 8 non scoring races.
Mclaren - 7 wins, 6 podiums, 12 non scoring races.
Ferrari - 3 wins, 12 podiums, 8 non scoring races.

We should have atleast 6 wins this season.


Only one more win was enough to get the title :well: , Fernando finished five times in 2nd.

#1742 HPT

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 13:25

Only one more win was enough to get the title :well: , Fernando finished five times in 2nd.


Don't drive yourself crazy mate. I'm disappointed too but I try not to think of things like these. He would have been champion if Grosjean didn't take him out, if he didn't have that accident in Japan, if Hamilton's engine didn't blow in Singapore and so many more. I believe that events don't happen in a vacuum - if you change one thing in a chain of events, everything else changes.

His time will come. I just hope Ferrari really step up next year.

#1743 tmprikol

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:28

I believe that events don't happen in a vacuum - if you change one thing in a chain of events, everything else changes.

His time will come. I just hope Ferrari really step up next year.


Can't agree more with your statement, we can not look at such things as isolated events, they are parts that affect the the sequence of following events

#1744 RedOne

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:16

Don't drive yourself crazy mate. I'm disappointed too but I try not to think of things like these. He would have been champion if Grosjean didn't take him out, if he didn't have that accident in Japan, if Hamilton's engine didn't blow in Singapore and so many more. I believe that events don't happen in a vacuum - if you change one thing in a chain of events, everything else changes.

His time will come. I just hope Ferrari really step up next year.


Well said :up:

#1745 BackOnTop

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:21

What a fantastic and crazy race this was!
Epic drive from Alonso this year and epic come back from Ferrari (well at least till Monza).
Great work done by Massa in this last races!
And most of all cheers to Alonso and Ferrari true 2012 champions!

That is, I am afraid, a complete UNTRUE statement, going by the official listing and reality facts. Vettel, in fact, is the true one.

If we have to play the True game, then Kimi was the true champion in 2005 & Msc was in 2006. But I agree if you meant personal feelings that Alonso was "your" World Champion.



#1746 superuser

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:12

Everyone is true champion! There are no losers! :) The reality distortion field is strong here!

#1747 TigersWood

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 13:39

Fernando Alonso is not the true champion. The true champion is Vettel. End of story.

But Fernando Alonso has been the best in 2012. He has been the most deserving driver and he will be part in the history of Formula 1, like Adrian Newey/Vettel.

Clearly, the fact that Alonso only has 2 championships is very very very unfair, but his time will come.

I hope Ferrari can at last deliver the fast car he deserves.

You know what Sebastian? With a fast car, the rest of the field know how to make poles too :) . Then, everything is easier.

#1748 medeni73

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:09

So its spreading through Internet fast:

Ross Brawn might come back to Ferrari !!!


Sources: Corriere dello Sport and http://www.blogf1.it...rno-in-ferrari/



#1749 kosmos

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:17

So its spreading through Internet fast:

Ross Brawn might come back to Ferrari !!!


Sources: Corriere dello Sport and http://www.blogf1.it...rno-in-ferrari/



Not sure if I believe that. They say that Brawn will be technical director, Pat Fry car designer and Tombazis will have less power in th design department after 4 years of failure. They even said if AMG Mercedes change the name of the team, Brawn could "escape" easily. Looks like pure speculation to me.

#1750 rsaca

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 14:27

Not sure if I believe that. They say that Brawn will be technical director, Pat Fry car designer and Tombazis will have less power in th design department after 4 years of failure. They even said if AMG Mercedes change the name of the team, Brawn could "escape" easily. Looks like pure speculation to me.


It'd be funny if it happens just to see Lewis' face!

Edited by rsaca, 29 November 2012 - 14:31.