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List of Hamilton's Lost 2012 Points [split]


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#1 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:12

For anybody who cares, definitive lost points list, with Vettel/Alonso inheritance.

Australia - 3 points lost due to safety car. Vettel inherits 3 points.

Malaysia - debateable whether he could've stayed ahead of Alonso and Perez. I'll say the pit stop didn't affect him.

China - Gearbox penalty. Qualified 2nd, Rosberg untouchable in race and wouldn't have been in so much traffic. 3 points lost.

Bahrain - 2 bad stops dropped him into traffic. It is fair to say he would have finished 4th as he passed Rosberg on track. 6 points lost. Alonso inherits 2.

Spain - pole would have converted into win, most probably. 21 points lost. Alonso inherits 3 points, Vettel 2.

Monaco - If we are working on the assumption that it is the teams fault that Vettel passed him then he lost 2 points and Vettel inherited 2.

Valencia - I believe he would had won had his final stop gone smoothly as he was ahead of Alonso and could've managed his pace, thus conserving tyres. 25 points lost after collision with Maldonado. Alonso inherits 7.

Great Britain - One of those weekends, seemed like McLaren gambled on wet setup, but we will never know. No change.

Germany - Hard to know where he would have finished had he not got a puncture, his pace wasn't magnificent. 4th? Maybe could have benefitted from Vettel's penalty. We'll never know.
12 points lost.

Belgium - once again I have no idea. We don't know what he could have done in the race but we also don't know what would have happened with Alonso. I'm happy to leave this one. There is the possibility that he could have finished ahead of a low starting Vettel, but he drove well.
Nothing doing.

Singapore - Another gearbox issue, was in control, win looked probable. 25 points lost. Vettel inherits 7. Alonso inherits 3.

Japan - We don't know what a good setup/not broken car could have done for Lewis. Button seemed pretty on it. Nothing once more.

Korea - Car failure cost 3rd/4th/5th place. We'll say 5th based on pace of Ferrari. 9 points lost.

UAE - Unknown mechanical issue costs probable win. 25 points lost. Vettel inherits 3 points, Alonso inherits 3 points.

Obviously there have been other issues with other drivers e.g Button dropping out gave Alonso 2nd in Monza, but this is purely Hamiltons issues and the affect on others.

Hamilton points lost = 131 (5 race wins worth)
Alonso inherited from Hamilton = 22
Vettel inherited from Hamilton = 17

Adjusting the WDC accordingly, adding to Hamilton and subtracting from the others =
Hamilton 296
Vettel 238 -58
Alonso 223 -73

58 point lead over VET with 2 races to go. WDC. and I was being conservative on my point givings.

In reality its closer, due to Vettel's DNFs, but that kid won 4 in a row, seemingly unstoppable.



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#2 engel

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:14

Valencia - I believe he would had won had his final stop gone smoothly as he was ahead of Alonso and could've managed his pace, thus conserving tyres. 25 points lost after collision with Maldonado. Alonso inherits 7.


Oh lord ...

#3 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:18

Oh lord ...


Fine call it 18 lost. 51 point lead. Still WDC.

#4 Boxerevo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:21

Calculating = Sadomasochism without the pleasure. :p

Edited by Boxerevo, 05 November 2012 - 01:24.


#5 engel

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:25

you do understand that it's a completely silly exercise, right? Alonso crashes out, we take the points thanks. Vettel's alternator fails, we take the points thanks. Hamilton's gearbox goes boom, we should have gotten those points = WDC

Nobody has perfect seasons. Nobody. Hamilton's season sucked more than others' from circumstances outside his control, true, but doing what you're doing is the equivalent of doing McLaren faster than HRT = + 165 points gained at HRT's expense.

#6 pingu666

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:32

id say he would finished ahead of button, or perhaps moved ahead if the team where more proactive, in japan

but he is paid millions and doing a dream job, so things arent too awful for him :)

#7 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:33

you do understand that it's a completely silly exercise, right? Alonso crashes out, we take the points thanks. Vettel's alternator fails, we take the points thanks. Hamilton's gearbox goes boom, we should have gotten those points = WDC

Nobody has perfect seasons. Nobody. Hamilton's season sucked more than others' from circumstances outside his control, true, but doing what you're doing is the equivalent of doing McLaren faster than HRT = + 165 points gained at HRT's expense.


Its not a silly exercize at all. I credited Hamilton with the DNF at Spa, which is equal with Alonso on unavoidable DNFS - 1. I wasn't exactly generous, I made note of the bad races e.g Germany, Japan, Korea. Some people give Hamilton wins in places like Malaysia, Jesus.

I said it wasn't perfect as I was doing it from a Hamilton POV.

Off the top of my head.
Vettel's +25 Valencia +15 malaysia -3 Hamilton +4 Italy Vettel still 11 points back.
Silly to do Alonso as him and ferrari have near enough maximised everything. You said no one has a perfect season, but its 100% possible Hamilton/McLaren could have equalled Alonso/Ferrari.

Just as you said Hamilton has had an especially sucky season, which is why people do this, to see what would have happened if it wasn't especially sucky.

Edited by TomNokoe, 05 November 2012 - 01:35.


#8 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:41

id say he would finished ahead of button, or perhaps moved ahead if the team where more proactive, in japan

but he is paid millions and doing a dream job, so things arent too awful for him :)

Like I said, conservative. some people will give Lewis wins in Australia, Malaysia, china, will give him podiums in Germany and spa and Korea and japan. I tried to look at it from the worse POV, yet Hamilton is still ahead with more hypothetical points on the table

#9 PretentiousBread

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:44

Like I said, conservative. some people will give Lewis wins in Australia, Malaysia, china, will give him podiums in Germany and spa and Korea and japan. I tried to look at it from the worse POV, yet Hamilton is still ahead with more hypothetical points on the table


It is true that whatever way you spin it, there is a mammoth points difference between Hamilton and JB. The only thing up for debate is exactly how massive it is.

#10 SirT

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:44

Very fair TomNokoe. But many people won't let you discuss it without shouting Lewis fans down 'The world dosen't revolve around Lewis' etc...'


#11 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:50

Very fair TomNokoe. But many people won't let you discuss it without shouting Lewis fans down 'The world dosen't revolve around Lewis' etc...'

I'm not a Vettel or Alonso fan so its really hard to give them points retrospectively.
Alonso has had Spa and that's really it.
Vettel's has had a few which brings him closer to Lewis, but Karma also rewarded him with 4 wins in a row.

#12 engel

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:56

Its not a silly exercize at all. I credited Hamilton with the DNF at Spa, which is equal with Alonso on unavoidable DNFS - 1. I wasn't exactly generous, I made note of the bad races e.g Germany, Japan, Korea. Some people give Hamilton wins in places like Malaysia, Jesus.

I said it wasn't perfect as I was doing it from a Hamilton POV.

Off the top of my head.
Vettel's +25 Valencia +15 malaysia -3 Hamilton +4 Italy Vettel still 11 points back.
Silly to do Alonso as him and ferrari have near enough maximised everything. You said no one has a perfect season, but its 100% possible Hamilton/McLaren could have equalled Alonso/Ferrari.

Just as you said Hamilton has had an especially sucky season, which is why people do this, to see what would have happened if it wasn't especially sucky.


No you 're just creating noise. 3 Points lost to a SC. Spain .. would have won. Germany 12 points to a puncture. It's random noise. If Lotus did a better pitstop in Hungary Kimi would have won. If Ferrari hadn't persisted with the silly Canada strategy Alonso would have finished 2nd.If RedBull weren't dumb enough to keep Vettel in the pits in Q3 in Monaco he would have finished 2nd.If this if that if the other. If Mercedes had fastened Schumachers wheel in China he would have been 2nd. It's just noise. Noise you just choose to filter as just affecting Hamilton negatively.

#13 pingu666

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:03

i think you could safely sumerize that without the near continous issues lewis has had this year, he would be solidly in the title fight

#14 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:24

All this is rather hilarious....

As it is Lewis has 165 points vs Button's 153, 5th and 6th respectively in the standings -- that's the macca boys. Some drivers have more, others less points.

It is an interaction of mechanics and human input, sometimes it works great, sometimes it doesn't. What is all the phantasy speculation good for? -- Isn't there enough to contemplate and converse about real issues ?

#15 SR388

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:33

All this is rather hilarious....

As it is Lewis has 165 points vs Button's 153, 5th and 6th respectively in the standings -- that's the macca boys. Some drivers have more, others less points.

It is an interaction of mechanics and human input, sometimes it works great, sometimes it doesn't. What is all the phantasy speculation good for? -- Isn't there enough to contemplate and converse about real issues ?


For a lot of us fans we are really coming to grips with how Lewis had the potential for a great season, and factors outside of his control have taken him out. Forums are all about speculation and conjecture.


Man, I will be pumped if next years Merc is a decent car.

#16 Hanzo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:45

i think you could safely sumerize that without the near continous issues lewis has had this year, he would be solidly in the title fight


That is fair and I think we all could agree on that.

But I really think those virtual lists are missing the point. You are giving him all points back for the problems during the season, that would be then the perfect F1 season for a driver, with no mechanical issues, pit stop mistakes, etc... Not a single champion had a perfect season like that. There are always problems. The concept of those lists is not real. Even if you do the same with the other contenders and compare results. If anything, it is just an orientation of how bad or unlucky season Mclaren is having, or how poor they are performing.

For example, someone is giving Hamilton 25 points for Barcelona. That is assuming that if he was on pole he would not have done a single mistake. Or could be the victim of other drivers' mistakes-accidents, like Rosberg-Karthikeyan today.

I agree this season is really unlucky and this should be a three drivers fight.

#17 engel

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:49

That is fair and I think we all could agree on that.

But I really think those virtual lists are missing the point. You are giving him all points back for the problems during the season, that would be then the perfect F1 season for a driver, with no mechanical issues, pit stop mistakes, etc... Not a single champion had a perfect season like that. There are always problems. The concept of those lists is not real. Even if you do the same with the other contenders and compare results. If anything, it is just an orientation of how bad or unlucky season Mclaren is having, or how poor they are performing.

For example, someone is giving Hamilton 25 points for Barcelona. That is assuming that if he was on pole he would not have done a single mistake. Or could be the victim of other drivers' mistakes-accidents, like Rosberg-Karthikeyan today.

I agree this season is really unlucky and this should be a three drivers fight.


it's not just ALL points, it's also fantasy points. I mean the other guy called Valencia Hamilton's race. In reality Hamilton was nowhere in Valencia, his tyres were gone he had been passed by Alonso and Kimi, Maldonado was all over him and Schumi was catching up. So in a "neutral" outcome with no mech issues race order is Vettel-Alonso-Grosjean-Kimi then you can call Hamilton anything between 5th and 7th. But the other guy is happy to call it as 25 points lost. That's why I said oh lord before, it's ... funny


Aside from that, yes of course Hamilton has been unlucky. And yes, it's obvious without the major issues he's had he would be in the championship race. But from that to picking points out of thin air and declaring him "champion" there's miles of difference

Edited by engel, 05 November 2012 - 02:51.


#18 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:15

For a lot of us fans we are really coming to grips with how Lewis had the potential for a great season, and factors outside of his control have taken him out. Forums are all about speculation and conjecture.


Man, I will be pumped if next years Merc is a decent car.


Well, I have never been very impressed with the fanatics-stuff (fans)-- as for me it diminishes the appreciation for the sport itself -- by blinding folks to simple realities of the sport in question. Like the fact that motorsport is a mechanical sport -- and failures, accidents etc. are integral part of the game.

Those factors outside a drivers control are just that, and it will not make the driver better or worse -- nor those supporting the said driver ought to get too exercised about the issues. Even on the forums, as that ends up being just silly.

My two cents m8.


#19 Craven Morehead

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:20

That is fair and I think we all could agree on that.

But I really think those virtual lists are missing the point. You are giving him all points back for the problems during the season, that would be then the perfect F1 season for a driver, with no mechanical issues, pit stop mistakes, etc... Not a single champion had a perfect season like that. ...


Michael Schumacher 2002. A perfect seasom iirc.

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#20 Peter Perfect

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:45

it's not just ALL points, it's also fantasy points. I mean the other guy called Valencia Hamilton's race. In reality Hamilton was nowhere in Valencia, his tyres were gone he had been passed by Alonso and Kimi, Maldonado was all over him and Schumi was catching up. So in a "neutral" outcome with no mech issues race order is Vettel-Alonso-Grosjean-Kimi then you can call Hamilton anything between 5th and 7th. But the other guy is happy to call it as 25 points lost. That's why I said oh lord before, it's ... funny


Aside from that, yes of course Hamilton has been unlucky. And yes, it's obvious without the major issues he's had he would be in the championship race. But from that to picking points out of thin air and declaring him "champion" there's miles of difference


:up: There's no doubt Hamliton's lost a large number of points this year due to mechanical/operational errors but real life is happening now people! If people are so fixated with making Hamilton win an imaginary championship then why even watch F1?! I come on here to get more information about what's happening to help me understand what's going on in the races. There's no harm discussing what might have been as you're discussing the impact of team/driver failing but it's been taken to the nth degree here.


Well, I have never been very impressed with the fanatics-stuff (fans)-- as for me it diminishes the appreciation for the sport itself -- by blinding folks to simple realities of the sport in question. Like the fact that motorsport is a mechanical sport -- and failures, accidents etc. are integral part of the game.

Those factors outside a drivers control are just that, and it will not make the driver better or worse -- nor those supporting the said driver ought to get too exercised about the issues. Even on the forums, as that ends up being just silly.

My two cents m8.

:up: As has been said before, if McLaren had bullet-proof reliability maybe they wouldn't be as fast. F1 is all about compromises. Like it or not Hamilton is driving for McLaren this year not team perfect.

#21 mlsnoopy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:22

you do understand that it's a completely silly exercise, right? Alonso crashes out, we take the points thanks. Vettel's alternator fails, we take the points thanks. Hamilton's gearbox goes boom, we should have gotten those points = WDC

Nobody has perfect seasons. Nobody. Hamilton's season sucked more than others' from circumstances outside his control, true, but doing what you're doing is the equivalent of doing McLaren faster than HRT = + 165 points gained at HRT's expense.


But you are talking about 2-3 incidents. If Hamilton had the same number of incidents that Alonso and Vettel had, nobody would have a problem, as he would still be way ahead of them.

#22 garoidb

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:27

Kimi's win has made it tougher for Lewis to get to third place in the WDC this year, so it looks like fourth or fifth again. On the other hand, Webber also did not score so it is still tight between them.

#23 Wander

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:27

I'm not even a fan of Hamilton, but it's clear to see that if he had had any luck, he would be up there with Alonso and Vettel right now. That car + driver combo was easily fast enough to win the world championship this year, but something just kept on getting messed up again and again. Many seasons tend to balance things out, and Hamilton too has had good fortune in some seasons, but there seemed to be none of it this year, that's for sure.

Better luck next year. He might need it.

#24 P123

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:41

:yawnface: I don't think we need a lengthy 'what if' debate to know that Hamilton would have a much healthier points total but for factors outwith his control.

#25 Buttoneer

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:42

This thread split from the Lewis Hamilton one.

If you do not like the existence of this thread, please refrain from posting in it. If you wish to complain about the existance of the thread, please PM me.

#26 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:45

Another thread from the Lew fanatics on how without the worst luck ever to befall a driver, Lewis would be 3x WDC by now.

Every driver loses points throughout the season

#27 choyothe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:47

About the same amount of crap than Vettel had in 2010. Spot the difference.

#28 Anja

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:50

While such calculations are somewhat useless, I think most of the people will agree that Hamilton is the unluckiest driver this season.

Edited by Anja, 05 November 2012 - 10:50.


#29 choyothe

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:51

While such calculations are somewhat useless, I think most of the people will agree that Hamilton is the unluckiest driver this season.


Definitely. Fanboys and haters alike should all agree on this.

#30 Torsion

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:52

Something else to think about is that if McLaren had spent more resources and time to ensure that the car was more reliable, may be it wouldn't have been as fast as it is now. The bottom line is, when you start playing around with IFs and BUTs the possibilities are endless.



#31 skidmarks

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:54

Another thread from the Lew fanatics on how without the worst luck ever to befall a driver, Lewis would be 3x WDC by now.

Every driver loses points throughout the season


But probably not so many points, in so many races through no fault of their own. As far as I can tell, that's the main thrust of the "lost points" argument.

Out of the last two races where Hamilton has been in dominant position (since announcing his move to Mercedes) he has suffered a mechanical failure both times. And in between those races, he has suffered some rather serious malfunctions where he could have picked up a decent points finish, if not a podium finish.

Surely having so many thing happen in the space of a few races is very unusual and warrants discussion?


#32 Zava

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:55

you do understand that it's a completely silly exercise, right? Alonso crashes out, we take the points thanks. Vettel's alternator fails, we take the points thanks. Hamilton's gearbox goes boom, we should have gotten those points = WDC

Nobody has perfect seasons. Nobody. Hamilton's season sucked more than others' from circumstances outside his control, true, but doing what you're doing is the equivalent of doing McLaren faster than HRT = + 165 points gained at HRT's expense.

:up: :up:
giving 25 to Hamilton for valencia says all I have to know about this list.

#33 jerriy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:55

you do understand that it's a completely silly exercise, right? Alonso crashes out, we take the points thanks. Vettel's alternator fails, we take the points thanks. Hamilton's gearbox goes boom, we should have gotten those points = WDC

Nobody has perfect seasons. Nobody. Hamilton's season sucked more than others' from circumstances outside his control, true, but doing what you're doing is the equivalent of doing McLaren faster than HRT = + 165 points gained at HRT's expense.

Well that IS the point!

So no need to add 'but's and 'if's.

#34 Lelouch

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:56

While such calculations are somewhat useless, I think most of the people will agree that Hamilton is the unluckiest driver this season.

Yeah well there was that thread at the start of the season with subject whether Mclaren will cost Hamilton 2012 WDC. Well this year's Mclaren-Mercedes combo has definitely deprived him of the chance to even fight for it. Summary: Mclaren has done a fantastic job in managing to win nothing this year with such a great car.

#35 maverick69

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:04

If he'd had, shall we say, "regular luck", then I think it's very likely he'd be in the lead of the WDC by a good whack. I also agree with the need to remember the compound effect of taking points off of other drivers.

Not going to put a figure on it as some folk seem to be getting a little touchy :)

#36 fatd

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:07

Well, quite an attempt, even though as with another hypothetical "alternate reality" it's hard to come to agreement how much points we are really talking about. Like it or not, we will always see through rose-tinted glasses in such calculation IMO.
But I agree that Hamilton lost quite a huge amount of points due to his team's cock-ups. It should be a three-horse race for the WDC now, between three top-tier driver on the grid! How great could that be, and I rated his season quite highly this year as well. Better luck next season Lewis, really wishing him good for next season (but not good enough to beat my favorite driver lol)!

#37 Rocket73

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:09

Lewis has had bad luck this year but at the same time he is definitely harder on the car than other drivers. You have to wonder why he has such bad reliability compared to his team mate over three years.

This race's electrical problem most likely wasn't his fault and that is bad luck for sure but there has to be some reason why he always has issues like crashing into people and suffering gearbox failures etc

I just categorically don't believe that Mclaren have been sabotaging him for 3 years...nonsense.

#38 fastdriver

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:10

They built an unstable/unreliable rocketship. How does that boil down to luck? It's about striking a balance between ALL the components. They failed to do so. Yes he has lost many points to things out of his control but certainly some of those issues were in the team's control and he's part of the team. :confused:

#39 karlth

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:10

Lewis has had bad luck this year but at the same time he is definitely harder on the car than other drivers.


:lol:


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#40 Burtros

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:12

Hamiltons season has sucked through no fault of his own. Without McLaren cock ups he would be in WDC contention. Its totally fair to say that I think most would agree.

But this thread is very silly, the OP's calculations are often massivly over optimistic.... not to mention its a totally pointless thing to do.

And finally, no list like this could ever be 'definitive'. The use of the word in the title is actually laughable.

Edited by Burtros, 05 November 2012 - 11:12.


#41 Alx09

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:12

Thanks for taking the time to write the list together. Incredible how unlucky Lewis has been.

#42 kosmos

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:13

While I agree with the spirit of the topic, we can also ask how many points/wins/titles McLaren has lost because Hamilton?. This is a team sport, sometimes the driver screw it, sometimes the team.

Edited by kosmos, 05 November 2012 - 11:13.


#43 Gareth

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:13

Like it or not Hamilton is driving for McLaren this year not team perfect.

Very true. Which is the interesting thing about the above, IMO: how McLaren wasted a fast car and a fast driver, and turned what should have been a strong WDC challenge into 5th place in the standings.

#44 Masenco

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:14

While its interesting to see such lists, im sure nearly everyone is in agreement that if lewis hadnt had such bad luck this season he would atleast be in solid contenstion for the title, if not in the lead of it

#45 F1ultimate

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:16

Very true. Which is the interesting thing about the above, IMO: how McLaren wasted a fast car and a fast driver, and turned what should have been a strong WDC challenge into 5th place in the standings.


Yupp. They were the strongest contenders for both silver cups this year, WDC and WCC.


Good luck winning that next year Mclaren. The joke is on you.

#46 Buttoneer

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:19

Hamiltons season has sucked through no fault of his own. Without McLaren cock ups he would be in WDC contention. Its totally fair to say that I think most would agree.

But this thread is very silly, the OP's calculations are often massivly over optimistic.... not to mention its a totally pointless thing to do.

And finally, no list like this could ever be 'definitive'. The use of the word in the title is actually laughable.

That's my title. It's how it's referred to in the OP. :rolleyes:

#47 F1FAN013

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:21

Lewis has had bad luck this year but at the same time he is definitely harder on the car than other drivers. You have to wonder why he has such bad reliability compared to his team mate over three years.

This race's electrical problem most likely wasn't his fault and that is bad luck for sure but there has to be some reason why he always has issues like crashing into people and suffering gearbox failures etc

I just categorically don't believe that Mclaren have been sabotaging him for 3 years...nonsense.


He was suppose to be hard on his tyres. That rumour was put to bed in Spain. He is now hard on his car. I guess in 2007 and 2008 he was hard on his car so why didn't he have the same unreliability issues as in 2012. :rolleyes:

Edited by F1FAN013, 05 November 2012 - 11:26.


#48 Sinceref189

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:21

Lewis has had bad luck this year but at the same time he is definitely harder on the car than other drivers. You have to wonder why he has such bad reliability compared to his team mate over three years.

This race's electrical problem most likely wasn't his fault and that is bad luck for sure but there has to be some reason why he always has issues like crashing into people and suffering gearbox failures etc

I just categorically don't believe that Mclaren have been sabotaging him for 3 years...nonsense.

:rolleyes: Oh so now that your button is closer to him in the standings you start getting high and mighty , spiting out typical bull crap . Give me a break what u need to worry about is why Lewis said they could of had a 1-2 this race but button was struggling in a dominant car .

#49 moorsey

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:22

Lewis has had bad luck this year but at the same time he is definitely harder on the car than other drivers. You have to wonder why he has such bad reliability compared to his team mate over three years.


:rotfl: :rotfl: There's none so blind as those who don't want to see. :rotfl:

#50 Atreiu

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:22

He lost a whole ****ing buch. That's fair to say.