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What will happen with Grosjean?


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Poll: What will happen to Grosjean (83 member(s) have cast votes)

What will happen to Grosjean

  1. Will get multi-year contract with Lotus (47 votes [56.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.63%

  2. Will go to lesser series (25 votes [30.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.12%

  3. will land in midfield team (11 votes [13.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.25%

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#1 Shiroo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:21

I was thinking about Grosjean situation nowdays. Most people believe he will extend his contract with Lotus, also due to fact that TP is his manager. But, afaik Team Owner is Gerard Lopez, businessman, that care about cash I believe.

After 18 races, Raikkonen demolished Grosjean 198 vs 90 pts. That's quite an advantage, and even if someone say: "A lot of DNFs is at fault". Most of these DNFs were due to Grosjean brain fade. Most of. He is definetly fast, has great qualification laps, but his racecraft is miserable. It can be good for lesser series like GP2, but with milions on stake, pinnacle of motorsport like F1 atm is, it is rather not enough.

First of all, TOTAL seems like to be focused on Vettel nowdays than on Grosjean (at least in my country, we have a spot with Vettel and TOTAL not Grosjean). The next thing is pay bills after each of these DNFs, parts for F1 cars arent cheap that's for sure (but TOTAL is paying more for each season definetly).

But, the most important factor might be WCC Lotus position, if Grosjean would at least make 70%, they would be 3rd atm, 4pts behind Ferrari, and let's be honest 140pts with car like Lotus shouldnt be hard (Rosberg has 93 in way inferior car) and Grosjean is behind Rosberg, behind Massa which one was really miserable during 1st part of the season, and Grosjean for most of the season had at least equal car to his (and at the start, his car was definetly superior).

I know it can be said about the same with Alons vs Massa, but Grosjean is rookie, he should show something that will make him keep the race seat in one of top teams.

He MIGHT be man for F1, but at the moment he isn't in my opinion at least. He makes too many mistakes for now, and unless he will finish both next races in points, we might say Bye bye to him. Gerard Lopez rather won't be too bothered with a lose of Grosjean, cause TOTAL money might be reduced by a lot next season.

Also I believe that 2nd in WCC would give a LOT MORE than TOTAL contract is worth (and if we include in that repair bills). And there are plenty of drivers that are solid and could deliver in Lotus.

Now for Grosjean, if he would be kicked out of Lotus, he wouldn't get a race seat next season, and I'm very doubtful that he would be back in F1, cause it is his come back, and 2nd come back is rather unlikely, cause there are plenty of drivers waiting for their chance in lesser series.



So kick from Lotus means somehow end of F1 career for Grosjean. Is it possible that the contract won't be extended? Cause as far as I can see at the moment, Boullier is giving some speech how rookie he still is, but even he mentioned once that it is up to Grosjean and his performance.

So even if Grosjean will be out, who will be in his place instead?

Edited by Shiroo, 05 November 2012 - 18:30.


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#2 Jon83

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:26

I think he has shown himself to be worthy of the race seat. 3 podiums in his first full year is excellent.

Some very unfortunate incidents though and some which he was 100% to blame for. I think he deserves to start next season with the team though.

#3 thuGG

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:32

The potential is there, I think he will stay.

#4 Burtros

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:36

hes done more than enough. As has been said 3 podiums is a strong return from him.

2013 will be make or break, if he can stop the mistakes he could be a great great f1 driver in years to come.

#5 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:43

He will most likely stay with Lotus but Boullier said at abu dhabi that it's not yet sure, they need to be sure he has learned his lessons and then they will make contract that is a longterm one not jus one season. Boullier also said they have lots of other options than just Romain. In my mind he has proved enough to keep the seat.

#6 Sakae

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:45

Gro needs to calm down, and cool off his underbelly. He is a fast driver, probably better than a lot of his colleagues. I think he deserves another season, and to sort out a few things, he could invite Alain Prost for a cheese and wine chit-chat (or go quietly fishing with him); that might be a good thing for Gro, the team, and F1 as a whole.

#7 alframsey

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:47

He has done enough in my opinion, yes he has had too many silly incidents but he has also shown that he has a lot of potential to improve massively.

#8 GSiebert

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 14:50

First of all, TOTAL seems like to be focused on Vettel nowdays than on Grosjean (at least in my country, we have a spot with Vettel and TOTAL not Grosjean)

Not the case here in France.

#9 F1ultimate

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:04

His qualifying pace is better than Kimi. He just needs to improve his starts and first lap fortunes.

#10 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:12

His qualifying pace is better than Kimi. He just needs to improve his starts and first lap fortunes.


Better not, similar yes. He needs to improve first laps indeed and driving close against others, he doesnt have as great reflexses as Kimi has if someone suddenly does something stupdi like Perez did at abu dhabi, Kimi would have avoided the collapse but Grosjean didn't.

#11 Tardis40

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:14

After 18 races, Raikkonen demolished Grosjean 198 vs 90 pts.


Yes, but look at all of the opposition that Grosjean has demolished. He probably gave Kimi half of those points by knocking other contenders out of races.



#12 TFLB

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:18

The points gap flatters Raikkonen somewhat. In terms of pace Grosjean has more than matched him. Grosjean's incidents haven't been all his fault, and next year with more experience he should be better. If he isn't, then by all means sack him.

#13 Racer3

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:19

2013 will be make or break, if he can stop the mistakes he could be a great great f1 driver in years to come.

Agree :up:
Understandably, he's a bit tense right now trying not to set a foot wrong.
But he's got lots of potential and I wish him good luck.




#14 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:24

He doesn´t derserve the seat, he crashes too often, and when he doesn´t crash he´s been OK in the first half of the year and nowhere in the second half. Not enough. Saving grace might be that he´s little experienced, so giving him another year could be the fair thing to do.

Just as all the other second drivers of the other top teams this year, he didn´t do enough to retain his seat in my book. Massa, Webber, Button and Romain showed they don´t deserve to be where they are. Only Button should stay because he showed last year he can do the job, but his mid season slump on form shouldn´t be repeated in the future.

#15 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:29

The points gap flatters Raikkonen somewhat. In terms of pace Grosjean has more than matched him. Grosjean's incidents haven't been all his fault, and next year with more experience he should be better. If he isn't, then by all means sack him.


Lol no....maybe in quali yes he has been a match but on racepace very rarely he has had the pace and most of all consistency of Räikkönen. He will be better next year for sure, sadly for him so will Kimi and latter part of the season has showed Romain can't keep up with Kimi anymore as well as he did at he beginning.

#16 byronbolscher

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 15:34

I wouldn't be surprised that the reason Lotus hasn't confirmed Grosjean yet is that they, or maybe just mr. Lopez, wants to see how he finishes the season. And I do get the people who bring up his pace or his good qualifyings, but F1 teams ususally don't have a whole lot of patience, so we have to wait and see if Lotus does. Does he deserve his seat? Easy question, if he improves on his race craft, yes, but only time will tell, and none of us can look into the future.

Edited by byronbolscher, 05 November 2012 - 15:35.


#17 Shiroo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:08

I wouldn't be surprised that the reason Lotus hasn't confirmed Grosjean yet is that they, or maybe just mr. Lopez, wants to see how he finishes the season. And I do get the people who bring up his pace or his good qualifyings, but F1 teams ususally don't have a whole lot of patience, so we have to wait and see if Lotus does. Does he deserve his seat? Easy question, if he improves on his race craft, yes, but only time will tell, and none of us can look into the future.

I thought excatly the same about Lopez.

Well he is fast no doubts about that, but his racecraft. I believe he SHOULD get an experience in midfield teams, maybe being up on the front is too much pressure on him, he is rookie and right from the bat he is in the car that can give podiums on regular basis

#18 balage06

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:20

After 18 races, Raikkonen demolished Grosjean 198 vs 90 pts.

In 2010 Kubica "demolished" Petrov 136 vs 27 points. Vitaly finished only once in the top 5, but the team kept him for 2011.

#19 Disgrace

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:22

Too much is made of his first lap incidents.

Five are either racing incidents (Barcelona, Monaco, Silverstone, Abu Dhabi) or being taken out (Australia).

Four have been blatantly his fault (Malaysia, Spa, Germany, Japan), the last of which caused ironically by being too careful. Unfortunately these have involved more high-profile drivers such Schumi, Hamilton, Alonso and Webber and so kicked up much more of a storm.

His qualifying pace relative to Raikkonen and three podiums, which should have been four if not for an alternator in Valencia, would otherwise be considered great form by a rookie. You can't teach an F1 driver pace.

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#20 SpartanChas

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:26

He's got to stay, just needs to get into his head that it won't be the end of the world if he loses a few positions at the start. He's clearly very quick.

#21 Vesuvius

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:28

Too much is made of his first lap incidents.

Five are either racing incidents (Barcelona, Monaco, Silverstone, Abu Dhabi) or being taken out (Australia).

Four have been blatantly his fault (Malaysia, Spa, Germany, Japan), the last of which caused ironically by being too careful. Unfortunately these have involved more high-profile drivers such Schumi, Hamilton, Alonso and Webber and so kicked up much more of a storm.

His qualifying pace relative to Raikkonen and three podiums, which should have been four if not for an alternator in Valencia, would otherwise be considered great form by a rookie. You can't teach an F1 driver pace.


Monaco and australia both were as much as his fault then the other ones who took apart on the collissions..

His pace is great and he is future gp winner.

#22 Torsion

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:29

Keeping his performances aside, I wonder whether financial reason could influence the decision - both in terms of constructors points lost, and the running costs which must be significantly high on Romain's side of the garage. Personally I hope he stays for another season.




#23 Muppetmad

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:32

In 2010 Kubica "demolished" Petrov 136 vs 27 points. Vitaly finished only once in the top 5, but the team kept him for 2011.


Bingo, what I was just about to say. In 2010, Kubica could have turned up to the first three races, sat out the rest of the season, and still would have scored more points than Petrov. Now that's a demolition. Yet, Renault kept him on and he was much stronger in 2011. Grosjean has had a number of incidents which, granted, some were his fault, but others weren't (such as Valencia) - these errors can be corrected over time. I have confidence that Romain can strike the right balance between speed and race tact.

and when he doesn´t crash he´s been OK in the first half of the year and nowhere in the second half. Not enough.


I think that's a little unfair. If it weren't for the alternator failure in Valencia, Romain would have matched Kimi on podiums. Without it, Romain still got 2 podiums - that's not a figure to sniff at. In the first half of the year, Romain showed great promise. It can't be argued that his second half has been fairly disastrous, but his first half shows the potential at hand which can be nurtured over the Winter break.

Edited by Muppetmad, 05 November 2012 - 16:38.


#24 grunge

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:34

He deserves to stay on..Hes got raw pace in abundance..Also other than race starts,he hardly gets into any racing incidents..certainly not anymore than your regular F1 driver..

I believe he's a star for the future.Lotus needs to be patient with him

#25 Sapphiresteel

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:41

The points gap flatters Raikkonen somewhat.


No.

In terms of pace Grosjean has more than matched him.


No.

#26 exmayol

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:53

As much as I don't like him I can't deny he has a massive talent. He totally should stay.

#27 keeppari

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:01

I hope he stays. Lots of potential and raw speed. His racecraft isn't that bad either considering that whenever he runs a clean race he doesn't finish that far behind Kimi. It would be another sad story to see him being replaced by some mediocre pay-driver.

Edited by keeppari, 05 November 2012 - 17:03.


#28 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:06

It can't be argued that his second half has been fairly disastrous, but his first half shows the potential at hand which can be nurtured over the Winter break.


That´s true. But while he´s already showed how high he can peak, he hasn´t showed at all that he can keep his peaks lasting long. That´s really a must if you´re going to drive for a top team. Ending up fighting Force Indias and Saubers for a good number of races with the current field order is not enough.


#29 JohnConnor

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:08

We know the guy is fast and the potential is there, but I get the feeling that if it wasn't a situation of French driver being in a French team and Boullier being the team principal, RoGro might've run out of leeway already. Narrowly, but still maybe. Also I would imagine that Total would favor seeing him keeping the seat. These are the factors that are on his side. I think Lotus just want to wait and see out his last races just to be sure that it's safe to sign him for next year. At least I think it makes sense. If he manages to complete the season racing clean, I think he'll get the contract.

Edited by JohnConnor, 05 November 2012 - 17:10.


#30 Mauseri

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:14

It's some time already that Romain showed he could be beating Kimi in terms of speed. Recently it's more been like that Kimi pulls the difference making Q3 lap. I wonder if Spa and the crash king media storm has affected him.

#31 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:17

Does anyone know how much money Grosjean brings to the team? -- As I think that is the only valid reason to keep him for Lotus next year.

Flashes of speed will not compensate for his lack of race awareness.... there are enough talented drivers waiting in the wings, but who do not have the sponsor $$$ to buy a seat.

#32 2ms

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:23

There are new development series champions every year. There are very few, however, drivers who destroy as many people's races and equipment as Grosjean does. He's a huge liability for what benefit? Somebody else like D'Ambrosio or Kovalianen will be there next season if you ask me. It's hard to imagine what kind of money he could bring to justify his occupation of second seat in a top-5 f1 team.

#33 AlexS

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:24

I don't think he should stay. Too many errors that i think might be physical limitations of his own (ex.peripheral vision)

I never seen a driver make so many high profile mistakes in his first year.

#34 Shiroo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:29

Does anyone know how much money Grosjean brings to the team? -- As I think that is the only valid reason to keep him for Lotus next year.

Flashes of speed will not compensate for his lack of race awareness.... there are enough talented drivers waiting in the wings, but who do not have the sponsor $$$ to buy a seat.

wasnt it around 10-12mln ?

To be honest I'd put him in some midfield team or even back of the grid, and make him learn a bit racecraft. Year in caterham and then later in FI or smt, would make him enough to be back in Lotus.

let's be honest, Lotus atm at least in this season is Top 4 team, it's frontrunner that is pretty constant with it's performance, their lead driver is 3rd in WDC, ahead of likes of Hamilton, Button, Webber, Massa that has theorytically superior car to his (though in few races Lotus was superior to theirs). As one of best teams in F1 now (which one should be similar in 2013 due to evolution cars than new projects) the driver should be able to bring at least that 70% of lead driver. That would give Lotus 2nd in WCC so it is worth to fight for.

Grosjean is a big talent, but he needs maybe few more years in F1 grid. he was too long in lesser series where crashing is too often (and that's the next problem, they should really do smt with that crash fest in lesser series)

#35 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:31

It's some time already that Romain showed he could be beating Kimi in terms of speed.


Well, a broken clock is right twice a day as well. With all due respect, Romain has not done the above in terms of race speed -- practically during the whole season -- and, I believe, that Kimi himself admitted the quali-pace of his was lacking, but even that seems to have corrected itself in the second half of the season.

Romain has shown some promise, indeed, but as my previous comment pointed out, there are more promising drivers waiting for a chance.


#36 TFLB

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:31

No.



No.

Thank you for your detailed explanation of your reasoning. :up:

#37 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:39

Thank you for your detailed explanation of your reasoning. :up:


What did you expect? Your initial claim of the opposite had exactly the same ammount of backup.

#38 sniper80

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:44

The points gap flatters Raikkonen somewhat. In terms of pace Grosjean has more than matched him. Grosjean's incidents haven't been all his fault, and next year with more experience he should be better. If he isn't, then by all means sack him.


Lol, what have you been smoking this season? Kimi destroyed Romain


#39 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:49

What did you expect? Your initial claim of the opposite had exactly the same ammount of backup.


'-)

I would find it a pity if this thread becomes a Romain bashing affair, but claims of RG matching or super seeding Kimi's speed is simply not backed-up by facts.

Would Romain have had his season less disastrous in terms of avoidable crashes, I would be happy to have him for a second season at Lotus. As it is, I do hope they find someone else.

It is that simple really.

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#40 Trust

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:51

Where's the poll?

#41 korzeniow

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:57

I don't think he should stay. Too many errors that i think might be physical limitations of his own (ex.peripheral vision)

I never seen a driver make so many high profile mistakes in his first year.


What about "high profile mistakes" in driver's fifth season?


HAM in 2011?

#42 bub

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 17:57

I think RG has the talent to be a very good racing driver. I think he has the capacity to improve his wheel to wheel racing. The thing I question is his mental strength. His body language hasn't looked good to me. For that reason I'm unsure whether he'll succeed or not.

#43 Miggeex

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 18:09

Grosjean has been doing fine recently. Yesterdays crash had nothing to do with him. The results in last races haven't been so thrilling but he has taken a whole new approach. He needs to get through the races before taking more risks again. And he has been doing it. But yeah the pressure is on after getting DNF while his team-mate won. (Brilliant win. So happy here for Kimi and Lotus.)

Lotus bosses aren't blaming Grosjean for the crash I hope, but surely they must have some targets that Grosjean needs to achieve before getting the seat for next year. Now Grosjean has only 2 races to show. Maybe he'll get the drive if he won't cause any incidents anymore.

But you can tell that he's being more careful at the moment so shame for that incident.



#44 Torsion

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 18:15

Grosjean has been doing fine recently. Yesterdays crash had nothing to do with him. The results in last races haven't been so thrilling but he has taken a whole new approach. He needs to get through the races before taking more risks again. And he has been doing it. But yeah the pressure is on after getting DNF while his team-mate won. (Brilliant win. So happy here for Kimi and Lotus.)

Lotus bosses aren't blaming Grosjean for the crash I hope, but surely they must have some targets that Grosjean needs to achieve before getting the seat for next year. Now Grosjean has only 2 races to show. Maybe he'll get the drive if he won't cause any incidents anymore.

But you can tell that he's being more careful at the moment so shame for that incident.


I think he could have avoided the first incident (the puncture), by just leaving enough room for the other guy. He was too eager to close it off, and misjudged as to where the other guy was.

Edited by Torsion, 05 November 2012 - 18:16.


#45 beute

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 18:30

I would keep him, he has shown more promise than many others.

His qualifying pace is exaggerated, it was more like Raikkonen not being able to get his shit together in Q3 until recently...
His race pace also wasnt on par with Raikkonen.

but it seems like Lotus has the closest driver pair apart from maybe Force india, Grosjean is a lot closer to raikkonen than webber to vettel, button to hamilton, massa to alonso etc..
Which is good for the WCC, he only needs to keep himself out of all those crashes.


#46 Shiroo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 18:32

Added the poll (though i prefer people posting their idea than silly picking an asnwe, they give some argument then at least :))

#47 Torsion

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 19:03

I think a 1-year contract with Lotus.



#48 Shiroo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 19:06

But Boullier mentioned already, that if they will contract Grosjean, then it will be multi year contract

#49 Torsion

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 19:53

But Boullier mentioned already, that if they will contract Grosjean, then it will be multi year contract


Ok thanks - didn't know that. They might however reconsider the terms if they are not completely sure.



#50 tarmac

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 19:59

If he dosent bring any money anymore i think its a problem.. Lotus needs money. Maldonado money would be great for any team

Edited by tarmac, 05 November 2012 - 20:00.