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Schumie at Benetton "We never cheated at any time" [split]


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#101 Number62

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 18:39

It was a program for (deactivated) Launch control. Tractions control was never found at the Benetton. I guess Ayrton ears are fine for some users as evidence ;)


"Having thus initiated "launch control", the driver would be able to make a fully automatic start. Such a start is clearly a driver aid as it operates the clutch, changes gear and uses traction control by modulating engine power (by changing ignition or fuel settings), in response to wheel speed."

http://www.motorspor...-press-release/



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#102 1Devil1

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 18:43

"Having thus initiated "launch control", the driver would be able to make a fully automatic start. Such a start is clearly a driver aid as it operates the clutch, changes gear and uses traction control by modulating engine power (by changing ignition or fuel settings), in response to wheel speed."

http://www.motorspor...-press-release/


You realize that launch control is a type of traction control? The word alone is no evidence in this context

"The FIA launched an investigation and a start sequence (launch control) system was discovered in the cars' onboard computer systems but no traction control"

Edited by 1Devil1, 07 November 2012 - 18:44.


#103 Risil

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 19:20

"Having thus initiated "launch control", the driver would be able to make a fully automatic start. Such a start is clearly a driver aid as it operates the clutch, changes gear and uses traction control by modulating engine power (by changing ignition or fuel settings), in response to wheel speed."

http://www.motorspor...-press-release/


In order to enable "launch control", a particular menu with ten options, has to be selected on the PC screen. "Launch control" is not visibly listed as an option. The menu was so arranged that, after ten items, nothing further appeared. If however, the operator scrolled down the menu beyond the tenth listed option, to option 13, launch control can be enabled, even though this is not visible on the screen. No satisfactory explanation was offered for this apparent attempt to conceal the feature.


This bit is brilliant. The B194 had cheat codes!

#104 LiJu914

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 19:32

...
Launch control operates by using an electronic-driven accelerator and a computer program. The software drives the accelerator according to engine specifications to make the car accelerate smoothly and as fast as possible, avoiding spinning of the drive wheels, engine failure due to over-revving, and clutch and gearbox problems. This feature is only available at the start of the race, when the car is stopped in the starting grid. After the car is running at a certain speed, the software is disabled.
....

Btw. Still nobody explained to me, why MSC didn´t have a particularly good start in Imola (not better than Senna and worse than Berger) and why one can clearly see the Benetton´s rear-tyres spinning at the re-start (and Berger overtaking MSC in the process).
I also just watched some footage of the race itself and waited until i could see signs of power-oversteer from the Benetton out of slower corners. It didn´t take longer than two minutes (for those who´re interested: here´s the vid click skip to 1min50sec).

Obviously Benetton´s launch-control and their imaginary traction-control weren´t really high-tech. :rolleyes:

Edited by LiJu914, 07 November 2012 - 19:36.


#105 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 19:43

I am aware of such things, but you tried a cheap game here. Engines were not the factor for being the best team or not. You needed a good aerodynamic, traction control and active suspension and Formula One was heading the domination of aerodynamic even in this days. I never denied that engines were more important in comparison to today but you came around and make it look like all you needed was the better engine to be ahead of the other team. That's simple not true. Some people technics said the Benetton of 1994 was better than the 1995 car because it was not so nervous because of a better torque. So your HP mathematic is too simple in every view. Benetton had perhaps a little advantage in the sector engines but you completely failed to say something about the others.


I never said they were the only factor, but the engine is sort of important no?

What cannot be disputed is that the FW16 was a very difficult car to drive. It was twitchy, and overly sensitive in corners. What it did still have was a Renault V10 that was the best engine produced at that time period. You still had V8's and V12's allowed in the cars. Renault was the one who caused the whole V10 revolution. Once they reworked the FW16 into the FW16B, the entire package was much better.

The B-194 was supposedly a difficult car to drive according to I believe Jos Verstappen, but he also said last year Schumacher's car was outfitted with traction control. Sure people will say it's sour grapes, and that he was slower than Michael, but Cheating Tom had no problem signing such a slow driver to go run with Arrows for a bit.

#106 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 19:45

...
Launch control operates by using an electronic-driven accelerator and a computer program. The software drives the accelerator according to engine specifications to make the car accelerate smoothly and as fast as possible, avoiding spinning of the drive wheels, engine failure due to over-revving, and clutch and gearbox problems. This feature is only available at the start of the race, when the car is stopped in the starting grid. After the car is running at a certain speed, the software is disabled.
....

Btw. Still nobody explained to me, why MSC didn´t have a particularly good start in Imola (not better than Senna and worse than Berger) and why one can clearly see the Benetton´s rear-tyres spinning at the re-start (and Berger overtaking MSC in the process).
I also just watched some footage of the race itself and waited until i could see signs of power-oversteer from the Benetton out of slower corners. It didn´t take longer than two minutes (for those who´re interested: here´s the vid click skip to 1min50sec).

Obviously Benetton´s launch-control and their imaginary traction-control weren´t really high-tech. :rolleyes:


You ignore that one of the Benetton mechanics said the B-194 had everything but cruise control...I think he would have been in a better position to speak than you. It's actually mentioned in the article I posted.

#107 LiJu914

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 19:47

The B-194 was supposedly a difficult car to drive according to I believe Jos Verstappen, but he also said last year Schumacher's car was outfitted with traction control. Sure people will say it's sour grapes, and that he was slower than Michael, but Cheating Tom had no problem signing such a slow driver to go run with Arrows for a bit.



No he didn´t. He said, he believed MSC used it, because MSC was so much faster than him.

Edited by LiJu914, 07 November 2012 - 19:47.


#108 LiJu914

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 19:51

You ignore that one of the Benetton mechanics said the B-194 had everything but cruise control...I think he would have been in a better position to speak than you. It's actually mentioned in the article I posted.


The fact that the Benetton spun its wheels at the start and also showed power-oversteer during accelarations is undeniable. Do you know why? Because you can see it with your eyes.

Your "Benetton mechanic" on the other hand only appears in one article written by some journo, and surprisingly has no name.

Edited by LiJu914, 07 November 2012 - 19:52.


#109 Number62

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 19:52

...
Launch control operates by using an electronic-driven accelerator and a computer program. The software drives the accelerator according to engine specifications to make the car accelerate smoothly and as fast as possible, avoiding spinning of the drive wheels, engine failure due to over-revving, and clutch and gearbox problems. This feature is only available at the start of the race, when the car is stopped in the starting grid. After the car is running at a certain speed, the software is disabled.
....


I'm not aware that you can have launch control without traction control. Is it not a critical component?

"In the past this technology was also used in 'launch control' systems, which allowed drivers to make optimum starts"

http://www.formula1....sport/5278.html


#110 LiJu914

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 19:57

I'm not aware that you can have launch control without traction control. Is it not a critical component?

"In the past this technology was also used in 'launch control' systems, which allowed drivers to make optimum starts"

http://www.formula1....sport/5278.html


Point was: To use TC also during the race you need a device besides the launch control, but something like that wasn´t found.

#111 schubacca

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 20:41

The big difference between Benetton and modern-day cheaters Red Bull (flexi wings, illegal mapping, double diffusers when they're banned) is that at least Benetton had a livery that looked nice. :love:


LOL,

How sad it is that some try to go back 20 years to cite instances of cheating, when things that happen this season are so easily glossed over....

#112 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 21:16

The fact that the Benetton spun its wheels at the start and also showed power-oversteer during accelarations is undeniable. Do you know why? Because you can see it with your eyes.

Your "Benetton mechanic" on the other hand only appears in one article written by some journo, and surprisingly has no name.


:rolleyes:

What's the matter, your fragile narrative suddenly doesn't stand up, so you start crying that the mechanic has no name?

Not all sources are named due to possible repercussions against the source. I thought this was common knowledge? It would make even more sense if the source was still working in F1 at the time the article was written, which clearly is the case.

Edited by BoschKurve, 07 November 2012 - 21:16.


#113 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 21:19

LOL,

How sad it is that some try to go back 20 years to cite instances of cheating, when things that happen this season are so easily glossed over....


Because 1994 is what got the ball rolling.

#114 LiJu914

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 21:48

:rolleyes:

What's the matter, your fragile narrative suddenly doesn't stand up, so you start crying that the mechanic has no name?

Not all sources are named due to possible repercussions against the source. I thought this was common knowledge? It would make even more sense if the source was still working in F1 at the time the article was written, which clearly is the case.


You can spin it in every way you like it. Good for you, that you believe everything, that´s in the newspapers.
Doesn´t change the fact, that a statement doesn´t proof anything, which was allegedly made by a anonymous person and which isn´t even noted as a statement, that was adressed to the author in person.

It´s quite telling, that you have no answer to a simple question of mine. Shall i repeat it? Do you have at least a somewhat plausible theory, why one can witness the Benettons rear-tyres spinning during the Imola race despite an alleged use of LC/TC?

Talk is cheap.

I think, we can stop discussing at this point, as i doubt anybody will convince the other guy.

You know, my world wouldn´t come to an end, if there would be clear evidence, that Benetton used a LC/TC. I admired MSC´s skills as a driver - and the same was true for Senna. But i never tried to deny/defend/talk down etc. that they had poor race ethics and that several of the notorious on-track incidents were done deliberately. So if the allegations actually turn out to be true someday, it would change very little for me - so i´m quite relaxed about that. Most of the drivers, i support(ed), are/were neither heros nor perfect (Alonso would be the next one...;) ) But in that case, i just don´t see it - resp. the details, which i have available as an outsider, lead me to the opposite assumption.

Edited by LiJu914, 08 November 2012 - 00:14.


#115 ThomFi

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 22:13

You can spin in every you like it. Good for you that you believe everything what´s in the newspapers.
Doesn´t change the fact that a statement doesn´t proof anything, which was allegedly made by a anonymous person and which isn´t not even noted as a statement, which was adressed to the author in person.

It´s quite telling, that you have no answer to a simple question of mine. Shall i repeat it? Do you have at least a somewhat plausible theory, why one can witness the Benettons rear-tyres spinning during the Imola race despite an alleged use of LC/TC?

Talk is cheap.

I think we can stop discussing at this point, as i doubt anybody will convince the other guy.

You know, my world wouldn´t come to an end, if there would be clear evidence, that Benetton used a TC. I admired MSC´s skills as a driver - and the same was true for Senna. But i never tried to deny/defend/talk down etc. that they had poor race ethics and that several of the notorious on-track incidents were done deliberately. So if the allegations someday actually turned out to be true, it would change very little for me - so i´m quite relaxed about that. Most of the drivers, i support(ed), are/were neither heros nor perfect (Alonso would be the next one...;) ) But in that case, i just don´t see it - resp. the details, which i have avaible as an outsider, lead me to the opposite assumption.



Especially if the source is as unreliable as the infamous BusinessF1 Magazine. They were known mainly for being sued all the time. They lost pretty much all lawsuits and went bankrupt due to unpaid libel damages.



#116 BoschKurve

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 00:09

Especially if the source is as unreliable as the infamous BusinessF1 Magazine. They were known mainly for being sued all the time. They lost pretty much all lawsuits and went bankrupt due to unpaid libel damages.


Libel laws in the UK are a joke.

I'm sure you knew that. :rolleyes:

#117 ThomFi

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:33

Libel laws in the UK are a joke.

I'm sure you knew that. :rolleyes:


Rubython's business f1 as a valid source, are you kidding me. :rotfl:
It's like citing a story of Fox News in a political discussion.
And apart from the lawsuits with the big names, they claimed for example, that grandprix.com, a respected and reliable Formula 1 website would be a propaganda machine (!) for the FIA. In reality , it was quite the opposite, because this website was known to be critical of the FIA.

Edited by ThomFi, 08 November 2012 - 03:48.


#118 Kingshark

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:41

Schumacher was a saint and a legend. :up:

#119 FigJam

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:09

Was it really a pig to handle at the limit? 3 consecutive pole positions suggests otherwise, especially when you consider that Senna had only scored two in the previous two seasons. So he made a mistake in Brazil, it happens, it is no proof that the car was difficult to drive.


Oh yeah it handled like a complete pig, was really sensitive to set-up changes and snapped between understeer and oversteer with frightening regularity. Damon Hill (a top driver and one with great development talent) found it impossible to drive on the limit, hence his struggles till the revised FW16. The Williams Renault FW16 was quick, no doubt about that, problem was to unleash its potential took a driver of Senna's majestic ability and even he could only tame it for short bursts, hence the 3 pole positions.

Through footage of the first 3 race meetings, you see Senna in constant animated discussion with Newey, David Brown etc over how difficult the car is behaving. Since then many team members, including his engineer David Brown and Adrian Newey, have made mention of the deep flaws the original FW16 had...and also how the stripping of electronics from the cars in 1994 hit Williams the hardest.



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#120 seahawk

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:38

They found a launch control software in the car. Technically it is believeable that they did not remove it, because part of the code could be used for the anti-stall or clutch adjustments or whatever, without activating launch and traction control. Do not forget that Benetton was slow on having such gadgets in the the 1993 season. And if I remember correctly TC in 1993 used sensors to check for wheelspin. No such sensors where found in the 1994 car.

Edited by seahawk, 08 November 2012 - 07:40.


#121 BullHead

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:03

All very good and at times thoughtful and insightful reading here. A very intriguing discussion, but, at the end of the day, what's done is done, who won is who won, the names and records have been set. I wouldn't get too worked up about it. There are many years and many dubious practices that could be mulled over I'm sure, from many different teams. It's part of the sport, as is the rulemakers trying to catch the benders and breakers... If Benetton were up to no good, they managed the whole year pretty well.

#122 ensign14

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:06

Btw. Still nobody explained to me, why MSC didn´t have a particularly good start in Imola (not better than Senna and worse than Berger) and why one can clearly see the Benetton´s rear-tyres spinning at the re-start (and Berger overtaking MSC in the process).

Easy enough. Senna had claimed Benetton were using TC at Aida. So they turned it off for Imola. ;)

It was not in the FIA's interests though to find Senna was killed trying to keep ahead of an illegal car.

#123 Jejking

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:39

Easy enough. Senna had claimed Benetton were using TC at Aida. So they turned it off for Imola.;)

It was not in the FIA's interests though to find Senna was killed trying to keep ahead of an illegal car.

Explain Brazil then please.

#124 FigJam

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:51

Explain Brazil then please.


That Senna spun off trying to keep up with an illegal car?


#125 ensign14

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:52

Explain Brazil then please.

Something to do with Vasco da Gama, if I remember correctly.

#126 LiJu914

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:55

^^
lol

Edited by LiJu914, 08 November 2012 - 08:57.


#127 LiJu914

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:57

That Senna spun off trying to keep up with an illegal car?


I think he meant MSC´s brilliant launch-control assisted start, which got him slow off the line and let him lose a place to Berger and almost another one to Hill.

#128 FigJam

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:01

I know  ;)

#129 SparkPlug

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:02

Oh yeah it handled like a complete pig, was really sensitive to set-up changes and snapped between understeer and oversteer with frightening regularity. Damon Hill (a top driver and one with great development talent) found it impossible to drive on the limit, hence his struggles till the revised FW16. The Williams Renault FW16 was quick, no doubt about that, problem was to unleash its potential took a driver of Senna's majestic ability and even he could only tame it for short bursts, hence the 3 pole positions.

I think you can say the same about the B194 and B195. The few drivers who have driven / tested these cars (apart from Schumacher) will testify about how difficult it was to drive them. Read Gerhard Berger's book, he has some not so good things to say about how the 1995 car handled when he tested it.

#130 spacekid

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:14

It was not in the FIA's interests though to find Senna was killed trying to keep ahead of an illegal car.


Oh please, I have seen this on the forum before and it is such bullshit.

Senna was killed in a freak accident. Crashes happen in motorsports, and Senna was a driver who drove to the limit of the machinery he had.

Trying to pin Senna's death on the Benneton B194 is completely pathetic :down:

#131 FigJam

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:19

Trying to pin Senna's death on the Benneton B194 is completely pathetic :down:


I don't think anyone is trying to do that. More that it wouldn't look terribly good if its found that Senna crashed whilst trying to outrace an illegal car.

I think you can say the same about the B194 and B195. The few drivers who have driven / tested these cars (apart from Schumacher) will testify about how difficult it was to drive them. Read Gerhard Berger's book, he has some not so good things to say about how the 1995 car handled when he tested it.


I certainly subscribe to this also, definetly. There is no doubting Schumachers superb performances through the 94/95 seasons with Benetton.

#132 man

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:20

I think you can say the same about the B194 and B195. The few drivers who have driven / tested these cars (apart from Schumacher) will testify about how difficult it was to drive them. Read Gerhard Berger's book, he has some not so good things to say about how the 1995 car handled when he tested it.


Herbert was pretty rapid in the B194 straight away.

"It was a hard year last year," Johnny said in February 1996. "From the start, there seemed to be rumours that every race would be my last race. It was stupid and it must have been coming from somewhere. Looking back on it, I think it affected my performances and upset me psychologically. I really lost all the enjoyment out of racing. I hardly spoke to Flavio Briatore, the managing director, in the second half of the season and it was very difficult."

In late 1998, reflecting further on his time at Benetton, Johnny told F1 Racing magazine:

"I never had a problem with Michael - it was the team. He'd ask to stay in the car for another two days at a test and they'd say, 'Okay Michael, no problem'. At the four day pre-Silverstone test in 1995, when I went on to win the race, I only did half a day's testing. I think he'd had enough on the final afternoon, so I was allowed in.

"The trouble all started after I qualified fourth in the first race in Brazil. Then we went on to Argentina, where I was quicker than him in the first session. That night he told the team that he didn't want me to see his data any more. The next morning he came over to me and said, 'I'm sure you accept you'll have secrets from me and I'll have some from you so you'll understand if I don't show you my data in future'. But, of course, he still had access to all of my data. What could I do about it? Nothing. I had no say in the matter."



#133 dau

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:47

Easy enough. Senna had claimed Benetton were using TC at Aida. So they turned it off for Imola.;)

It was not in the FIA's interests though to find Senna was killed trying to keep ahead of an illegal car.

Did he claim they had TC or LC?

You're not serious with that second part, i hope?

#134 LiJu914

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:47

Herbert was pretty rapid in the B194 straight away.


The article you linked isn´t about the B194.

And it´s true, that Berger said about the B195, that the moment he drove that car, he knew he had underestimated MSC as a driver before and wondered how one could win a WDC with a car, that was so tail-happy and unpredictable in high-speed corners (he shunted the car completely at least two times in winter testing iirc).

MSC himself also said, that the B195 had a very small operating window, in which it was quick - but the B194 was a good car (even handling-wise) in his eyes iirc.

Edited by LiJu914, 08 November 2012 - 09:53.


#135 LiJu914

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:50

Did he claim they had TC or LC?

You're not serious with that second part, i hope?


He claimed it was TC. He was standing at the track in T1(?) after his crash with Hakkinen and watched the race for a while.

#136 oetzi

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:56

Rubython's business f1 as a valid source, are you kidding me. :rotfl:
It's like citing a story of Fox News in a political discussion.

It's not often I'll say this, but that's unfair to Fox News.

#137 LiJu914

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:23

I don't think anyone is trying to do that. More that it wouldn't look terribly good if its found that Senna crashed whilst trying to outrace an illegal car.


But you don´t agree that FIA might have covered up something, do you?

Because... the software LDRA analysed was from the Imola-race. If the FIA tried to cover up something, why did they publish, that they´d found a launch control device in that software sample?

Edited by LiJu914, 08 November 2012 - 10:25.


#138 spacekid

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:28

I don't think anyone is trying to do that. More that it wouldn't look terribly good if its found that Senna crashed whilst trying to outrace an illegal car.


Perhaps I misunderstood the intention of ensign14s post, in which case apologies to him.

However, I have seen a person on this forum before directly blame Schumi for Senna's death saying he was guilty for it because of a cheating car, and think a line needs to be drawn. Senna's death and the B194 are not causally linked.

Oh, I also saw a quote on the previous page saying that Benneton in 1994 set the ball rolling for rule bending in F1. Oh purlease...

#139 William Hunt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:53

Michael Schumacher about his nickname Schummel-Schumi and the claims he and (Benetton) cheated

"At no time was such that we have cheated, that was not so easy.

Someone wanted us to believe is simply part of the machinery of the Formula 1, where no one begrudge the other something."

I would want to make it quite clear that this has nothing to do with me and that I'm not happy about it."


Sounds like Lance Armstrong talking!
It was well documented and proven afterwards that Benetoon was using illegal traction control at that time. A couple of years ago, Schummi's 1995 title winning Benetton was auctioned with traction control, quite strange, since it was forbidden then no?

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#140 spacekid

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 13:05

Sounds like Lance Armstrong talking!
It was well documented and proven afterwards that Benetoon was using illegal traction control at that time. A couple of years ago, Schummi's 1995 title winning Benetton was auctioned with traction control, quite strange, since it was forbidden then no?


Oh well thats that sorted then.

Its almost as if the rest of the thread hasn't happened.


#141 pUs

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 13:07

I seem to remember the listing advertised it as totally authentic right down to the electronics. A major publication discussed it as an interest story but considering this car was sold 15 or so years after it was used, I doubt they would be too worried about giving any secrets away through their coding.


Sure, that could very well be the case. I just don't see it as likely. Especially considering all the rumors that were around at the time, I'd say that makes the chance even slimmer. Regardless what the auction text was saying.

But I might be wrong, perhaps the lucky owner discovers that nice option 13 one day and tell us all about it. Still hasn't happened though..

#142 MrFondue

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 13:11

Oh well thats that sorted then.

Its almost as if the rest of the thread hasn't happened.


Reading other posts sucks. Besides, who would distrust an eBay auction?

#143 pUs

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 13:12

There's 2 sides to this statement:

I would have loved to see Damon Hill take the title, come Adelaide, but the Williams driver only got to that point in the championship table, because of Schumacher's Silverstone disqualification and his 2-race ban late in the season. If those DQs hadn't happened, it's likely that Schumacher would've wrapped up the title at least 1 or 2 Grands Prix prior to the final race.

You could argue, though, that Schumacher's DQs weren't for nought. He and/or his team broke the rules, and he/they were punished. And because of that, Hill/Williams reigning the German in, in the WDC/WCC table, was just as right.

What happened, happened. And we all know that the 1994 title was Senna's. (Runs. Hides.)


Agree with most part, except about Senna. To win a title you must also finish some races, something he certainly didn't do in the first two GPs. Probably one of his absolutely worst season starts in a very long time, disregarding what happened at Imola..

Edited by pUs, 08 November 2012 - 14:09.


#144 1Devil1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 13:50

Sounds like Lance Armstrong talking!
It was well documented and proven afterwards that Benetoon was using illegal traction control at that time. A couple of years ago, Schummi's 1995 title winning Benetton was auctioned with traction control, quite strange, since it was forbidden then no?


Where are the documents? Please provide me these things it seems you know but nobody else. FIA found launch control not traction control and they were not able to prove it was useable. The auction was the Benetton 1994 not the 1995. Do you believe if somebody would sell the Williams F16 with the tag tractions control this is true? An auctions were you write everything you want is not a source if you ask me. It makes me crazy if people try to set "facts" that were never proven. You can believe what you want (that Benetton had tractions control) and argue here but please stop posting your own fantasy "facts"

Edited by 1Devil1, 08 November 2012 - 13:51.


#145 ensign14

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 14:12

Because... the software LDRA analysed was from the Imola-race. If the FIA tried to cover up something, why did they publish, that they´d found a launch control device in that software sample?

It was a matter of fact that it was there. How dangerous would it have been for the FIA to find it and say nothing about it? It would have meant that the FIA were a hostage to fortune - any disgruntled ex-employee could have spilt the beans.

#146 Vic Vega

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 14:27

"The trouble all started after I qualified fourth in the first race in Brazil. Then we went on to Argentina, where I was quicker than him in the first session. That night he told the team that he didn't want me to see his data any more."

Trouble is Johnny, you're lying through your teeth, as you weren't faster in any of the sessions, either before or after the so called "you can't see my data any more". I guess that Speedcar title didn't console you much, did it Johnny?

#147 William Hunt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 14:36

Oh well thats that sorted then.


You're welcome.  ;)


#148 LiJu914

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 14:50

It was a matter of fact that it was there. How dangerous would it have been for the FIA to find it and say nothing about it? It would have meant that the FIA were a hostage to fortune - any disgruntled ex-employee could have spilt the beans.


..and the same would´ve been true, if they would´ve found a traction control...

#149 krea

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 15:13

Sounds like Lance Armstrong talking!
It was well documented and proven afterwards that Benetoon was using illegal traction control at that time. A couple of years ago, Schummi's 1995 title winning Benetton was auctioned with traction control, quite strange, since it was forbidden then no?


Nothing was ever proven, that are just claims of a (mostly british) press.

#150 teejay

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 15:14

(3) In his mind Michael Schumacher cannot conceive he has ever done anything wrong.


I think this sums it up well.

Brilliant, yes. History changing, yes. But his waters are murky, even if he thinks they are a blue lagoon, and perfectly clear.