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Schumie at Benetton "We never cheated at any time" [split]


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#201 DS27

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 13:49

clever enough to have LC on the car and hide the functionality but then stupid enough to not use it in every race to maximise the advantage? Really?

I mean, his advantage over his team-mates at Benneton couldn't be down to talent alone could it. It's not as if MS subsequently proved himself to be something special is it - oh wait...

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#202 steveninthematrix

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 19:53

even if he didnt use the tc , they still had no fuel filters when they where ment too
sorry shumi dont believe you :)


and alonso didnt know that flavio told piquet jnr to wreck it................

#203 britishtrident

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:23

That's not cheating per se, that's miscalculating. It's not like they were trying to hide something.

What's more concerning is Schumacher seems to think driving onto the racing line in a terminally damaged car when the bloke who is about to take the title from him is already there is not cheating.

Also, one dog that hasn't barked yet...if this is all British anti-Schumacher feeling, how come the nickname is a German one?


Nicely put.

#204 LiJu914

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 22:05

Out of curiosity:

Watching further onboard footage from 1994 strengthened my impression, that MSC didn´t use a TC - but weirdly it lead me to the impression, that they might have used an automatic downshift instead. Example (watch MSC´s left thumb).

However: You can watch, Ayrton Senna do the exact same thing. click

Does anybody know, what other purpose that could´ve had?

Edited by LiJu914, 11 November 2012 - 22:10.


#205 Jejking

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 22:46

Out of curiosity:

Watching further onboard footage from 1994 strengthened my impression, that MSC didn´t use a TC - but weirdly it lead me to the impression, that they might have used an automatic downshift instead. Example (watch MSC´s left thumb).

However: You can watch, Ayrton Senna do the exact same thing. click

Does anybody know, what other purpose that could´ve had?

We have a mole here at the forums or it was really, REALLY accidental. You posted it 40 minutes ago, that second video, and it has been taken down :mad:

He doesn't press the button continuously before each corner so it doesn't make really sense that it was an autoshifter. Besides, I think that with the onboard through Tamburello and he started shifting down already before pressing the button (not sure, talking commentators + music). I think it was the pit radio button or a mix button.

Edited by Jejking, 11 November 2012 - 22:52.


#206 ensign14

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 22:55

No, it's still there, but it's from Imola...the button is used a couple of times going into corners, other times not.

#207 LiJu914

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 23:03

I think, both use the button at pretty much the same places...ahead of slow corners/chicanes.

Edited by LiJu914, 11 November 2012 - 23:03.


#208 alfa1

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:56

Watching further onboard footage from 1994 strengthened my impression, that MSC didn´t use a TC - but weirdly it lead me to the impression, that they might have used an automatic downshift instead. Example (watch MSC´s left thumb).



Yes, a very useful downshift feature that I built into my steering wheel so I could also use it playing the (Geoff Crammond) Grand Prix game on my Commodore Amiga.
I built it after seeing Michael use it at Adelaide 1994.

The idea is that at the end of a long straight you need to downshift a whole bunch of times, and there is the danger that you might accidentally do one too many, or one too few. So the button merely applies the exact number of preset downchange clicks.
eg. In Adelaide, you're in 6th gear approaching the hairpin... and when you brake you hit the button and get exactly 5 downchanges to always arrive in first gear for the hairpin corner.

Legal at the time, it was banned at the end of 1994 (or 1995), so nowdays all gearchanges have to be individually performed by the driver.

Edit - here's a discussion about it, at the time, in rec.autos.sport...
usenet forum link

Edited by alfa1, 12 November 2012 - 02:21.


#209 Wolf

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:28

Heh, it sounds like those preselector gearboxes last used in some of the British GP cars in '50-ies, when driver could drive down the straight in 4th gear, push the gear lever in say 2nd gear, and when finished braking pressing the clutch would shift down from 4th to 2nd... No fancy electronics back then.;)

#210 black magic

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:13

ad just to put record straight he has acknowledged he was wrong spain 97 and monaco.

He has never apologised for adelaide and nor should he

Sadly towards the end of his careeer senna became convinced the entire world was conspiring against hin

#211 Wolf

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:37

Back to the topic- I think my dislike for his ethics is well documented, but one thing is peculiar about this... I think MS knows right from wrong- just see how he dealt with Monaco incident; he was ignoring questions from press, avoiding giving straight answers, &c; but I do not think he 'flat out' lied about it, or any of his controversies. He was prepared to do bad things on the track, but tried to keep his integrity (or pride) by not lying about it.

He mostly ignored all the talk about it for nearly two decades, and now comes out with a flat-out lie? Why?!? He has nothing to gain from it- why bring it to people's attention by speaking about it and risk getting caught lying when there was absolutely no need for that? For once, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt- maybe he's actually telling the truth... God, and probably he himself, knows how many bad things he's done, and now maybe he wants to clear his name from the wrongful accusation. Stranger things have happened.

#212 as65p

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:07

Back to the topic- I think my dislike for his ethics is well documented, but one thing is peculiar about this... I think MS knows right from wrong- just see how he dealt with Monaco incident; he was ignoring questions from press, avoiding giving straight answers, &c; but I do not think he 'flat out' lied about it, or any of his controversies. He was prepared to do bad things on the track, but tried to keep his integrity (or pride) by not lying about it.

He mostly ignored all the talk about it for nearly two decades, and now comes out with a flat-out lie? Why?!? He has nothing to gain from it- why bring it to people's attention by speaking about it and risk getting caught lying when there was absolutely no need for that? For once, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt- maybe he's actually telling the truth... God, and probably he himself, knows how many bad things he's done, and now maybe he wants to clear his name from the wrongful accusation. Stranger things have happened.


Nothing to gain? Sorry but it's the opposite. Career is over, all that's left is his legacy and the nature of that depends heavily on people believing or not that Benetton cheated.

#213 Tsarwash

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:52

Back to the topic- I think my dislike for his ethics is well documented, but one thing is peculiar about this... I think MS knows right from wrong- just see how he dealt with Monaco incident; he was ignoring questions from press, avoiding giving straight answers, &c; but I do not think he 'flat out' lied about it, or any of his controversies. He was prepared to do bad things on the track, but tried to keep his integrity (or pride) by not lying about it.

He mostly ignored all the talk about it for nearly two decades, and now comes out with a flat-out lie? Why?!? He has nothing to gain from it- why bring it to people's attention by speaking about it and risk getting caught lying when there was absolutely no need for that? For once, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt- maybe he's actually telling the truth... God, and probably he himself, knows how many bad things he's done, and now maybe he wants to clear his name from the wrongful accusation. Stranger things have happened.

This is what I was suggesting earlier. The timing of these comments is important. As as65p has mentioned, his career is over, and not in the fashion that he would have liked. Legacy is what it's all about now, and these comments may have been an initial broadside in trying to protect that. The fact that Nico has been his match these last three years might be raising questions about previous achievements. (I'm not trying to diminish his past achievements here, but highlight that his harshest detractors have said this for much of his career.) Perhaps he is mindful about what has happened to Lance Armstrong, and is determined not to be cast in the same light.


#214 LiJu914

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:59

This is what I was suggesting earlier. The timing of these comments is important.


It´s quite coincidental. His statement is several months old. On account of his 300th GP RTL wanted to make a long interview and just asked him questions about his whole career.

Edited by LiJu914, 12 November 2012 - 14:15.


#215 seahawk

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 14:09

It is an old statement and the comparison to Armstrong is way out of line. Armstrong did not get in trouble for having "illegal" brakes on his car.