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Mclaren always want to "babysit" their drivers!


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#51 MP422

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 16:54

I have this sneaking suspicion that there will be an outbreak of contract-ripping before the new season begins. Might be a bit expensive, but Lewis knows he doesn't want Merc and Whitmarsh knows he doesn't want Perez...


I hope not.

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#52 BackOnTop

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 17:19

Pingu666
do you remember Mika kneeling down and cry behind a bush at Monza after a failure?
It's not normal for a driver, for a sportman to do this.
In my opinion, like yours, he was totally burn out pysicologically, from his own team.

Ciao, MonzaDriver.

That was really a sad moment being a Mclaren driver.

Other sad moments of Mclaren paying more attention to "Grooming" their drivers instead of focussing on making their RELIABLE is when Raikkonen's car blew up in Germany 2003.... effectively robbing him of the championship, which Kimi lost by 2 points!!

Lets not even start about 2005, 2006 & 2012!!

Yeah, Mclaren should focus more on the Engineering side than their Beauty & Spa department. :mad:

Edited by BackOnTop, 08 November 2012 - 17:22.


#53 mattferg

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 17:38

:confused: :confused:

What is the difference between "running away" & "Leaving"??


If you read the above bit highlighted in bold, as you criticised me for not reading, it's obvious it implies other than what you now claim you meant. Also, when you quote yourself and criticise me for misreading, and then your quote is wrong, it's hilarious.

#54 ElDictatore

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 17:44

on the support side, didnt mika leave f1 because he was burnt out ?, another possible fail there :/


Ron doesn't come across so inhuman like some posters here make him to be.

Kimi also made a little statement thatwise

"Raikkonen said McLaren is another possibility, even though it is reported his relationship with team supremo Ron Dennis was not great.
"For sure you have a different view of many things but we still talk to each other," he said. "I have never had a fight with him.
"People just try to make sh*t stories. I have no issues with anybody."

Yes McLaren is a bit different to other teams but i don't think by much. Kimi left because of sponsors mainly, Lewis leaves because he wants a new challenge, Alonso left because he didn't get nr. 1 status, JPM was kicked out after he crashed into Kimi, wasn't it? So actually most of them didn't run away, they just left for other reasons.
Also after 2011 who standed there and defended Lewis after he got beaten by Button? Whitmarsh. He didn't even complain after Lewis twittered confidental data. This would have cost other drivers the job.
So yeah to put it into Kimi's words. You just try to make shit stories.

Edited by ElDictatore, 08 November 2012 - 17:46.


#55 MaxisOne

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:19

Ron doesn't come across so inhuman like some posters here make him to be.

Kimi also made a little statement thatwise

"Raikkonen said McLaren is another possibility, even though it is reported his relationship with team supremo Ron Dennis was not great.
"For sure you have a different view of many things but we still talk to each other," he said. "I have never had a fight with him.
"People just try to make sh*t stories. I have no issues with anybody."

Yes McLaren is a bit different to other teams but i don't think by much. Kimi left because of sponsors mainly, Lewis leaves because he wants a new challenge, Alonso left because he didn't get nr. 1 status, JPM was kicked out after he crashed into Kimi, wasn't it? So actually most of them didn't run away, they just left for other reasons.
Also after 2011 who standed there and defended Lewis after he got beaten by Button? Whitmarsh. He didn't even complain after Lewis twittered confidental data. This would have cost other drivers the job.
So yeah to put it into Kimi's words. You just try to make shit stories.


+1


Everyone knows that to drive for Mclaren Ferrari and to a much lesser extent Mercedes you have to conform to their rules and "office culture". Dont like it ? go to another team. Two of the three teams i mentioned are certainly backing up their image with their performance. If you want to be able to grow your hair out and look like a ruffian who utters an expleteve with every other word and does not respect the chain of command or authority within the organization then you can certainly replace the entire marketing budget for the team then because especially with those teams and other historically important teams .. YOU ARE THE FACE of the team and you as the driver immediately represent the team.

This thread is a non starter in my opinion. Mclaren have every right to make their drivers the image of what they want them to be.. You draw a salary from a job.. you work the way they want you to work or dont take the job.. especially when the job has duties that reflect the image of the organization you work for and other organizations that pay money to be affiliated with the same organization that hired you...

Suck it up and get on with it.

Edited by MaxisOne, 08 November 2012 - 18:40.


#56 MaxisOne

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:31

A fast car fixes everything, including whinging 'fans'.

Everything else is sideshow b.s.



A consistently fast car fixes everything (Except relations between two good drivers on the same team).

Everything else is indeed a sideshow.

#57 Ze Bum

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:40

Everyone knows that to drive for Mclaren Ferrari and to a much lesser extent Mercedes you have to conform to their rules and "office culture". Dont like it ? go to another team. Two of the three teams i mentioned are certainly backing up their image with their performance. If you want to be able to grow your hair out and look like a ruffian who utters an expleteve with every other word and does not respect the chain of command or authority within the organization then you can certainly replace the entire marketing budget for the team then because especially with those teams and other historically important teams .. YOU ARE THE FACE of the team and you as the driver immediately represent the team.

This thread is a non starter in my opinion. Mclaren have every right to make their drivers the image of what they want them to be.. You draw a salary from a job.. you work the way they want you to work or dont take the job.. especially when the job has duties that reflect the image of the organization you work for and other organizations that pay money to be affiliated with Mclaren...

Suck it up and get on with it.


Of course they have every right to avoid the best drivers and championships.

I don't think you got the point.


#58 MaxisOne

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:43

Of course they have every right to avoid the best drivers and championships.

I don't think you got the point.



I got it ... The thread starter is complaining that certain teams can be overbearing and dictate terms to drivers and as a result the good drivers wont sign with them..

My argument is .. You cant win without the team or a fast car.. and guess what pays a good portion of the money that runs a team like mclaren?

Checo was in Mclarens view the best "available".. and im sure Martin had many more options on the table before they settled on Checo. The fact that statements are being made about his expectations for when he gets to Mclaren are not unreasonable especially after a run of not so good performances. NO ONE held a gun to Checo's head and told him to sign for Mclaren.

Im sure Di Resta and a few others had a few restless nights for not getting that contract.

Edited by MaxisOne, 08 November 2012 - 18:51.


#59 BillBald

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:50

I don't know if Martin is realizing it or doing it intentionally, every such article, every interview discussing Perez is making things worse even before he turned one wheel for McLaren.
Instead of keeping expectations in check and not reacting to these questions every time Perez has a booboo, he bites every time the media is poking him.
On the other hand it just enforces my opinion about Whitmarsh not having a clue about psychology and how to run a team effectively in every aspect.
Incredibly naive...


Well, I think part of MW's job is to make himself accessible and friendly to the media, in the hope that journalists will write a lot of upbeat stuff about McLaren. I presume he's being asked a lot about Perez, and he can't really keep saying 'no comment'.

But I understand your point, it does seem to be ramping up the pressure on Sergio, and might be part of the reason for his frequent mistakes.

MW actually needs to be more of a politician!




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#60 Ze Bum

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:50

I got it ... The thread starter is complaining that certain teams can be overbearing and dictate terms to drivers and as a result the good drivers wont sign with them..

My argument is .. You cant win without the team or a fast car.. and guess what pays a good portion of the money that runs a team like mclaren?


They wouldn't lose any sponsors by being a little less nazi. In fact with more success they would get even more sponsor money.


#61 MaxisOne

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:54

They wouldn't lose any sponsors by being a little less nazi. In fact with more success they would get even more sponsor money.


Sorry i dont think they are being nazi in the slightest.

Mclaren is Mclaren ... and thats how Ron and company likes it to be run.. Dont like it .. theres the door... Until you can prove the assertion you just made .. it is just that...

an assertion...

What is proven is that sponsors and teams will flee when you have a driver thats darned good but "dont know how to act"

Case in point http://bleacherrepor...ormer-cup-champ

Edited by MaxisOne, 08 November 2012 - 19:31.


#62 Ze Bum

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 19:01

Mclaren is Mclaren ... and thats how Ron and company likes it to be run.. Dont like it .. theres the door...


Sure. As I said, they have every right to be what they are. And I don't have to like them. :)


#63 MaxisOne

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 19:05

Sure. As I said, they have every right to be what they are. And I don't have to like them. :)



Wasnt asking you to ... everyone has their preference and the comment above is in reference to drivers who have a problem conforming to the image Mclaren wants to project.

Edited by MaxisOne, 08 November 2012 - 19:07.


#64 peroa

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 19:32

Well, I think part of MW's job is to make himself accessible and friendly to the media, in the hope that journalists will write a lot of upbeat stuff about McLaren. I presume he's being asked a lot about Perez, and he can't really keep saying 'no comment'.

But I understand your point, it does seem to be ramping up the pressure on Sergio, and might be part of the reason for his frequent mistakes.

MW actually needs to be more of a politician!

Yeah, by not reacting I mean feeding them some BS neutral response and not "is he a risk?, were we right?, we will have to mold him, etc".
I mean, WTF?
The team and driver have to work as one and know they have each others back. In the past few weeks Whitmarsh is basically admitting that his (or Ron's) decision wasn't really thought through.
I wonder how Perez must feel, there's not really much confidence coming his way and that's before the season even started.
I don't quite understand it. There's enough pressure and expectation heading his way already and they are just making it more.


#65 Dalton007

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 21:01

Pingu666
do you remember Mika kneeling down and cry behind a bush at Monza after a failure?
It's not normal for a driver, for a sportman to do this.
In my opinion, like yours, he was totally burn out pysicologically, from his own team.

Ciao, MonzaDriver.



Well, Mika screwed up didn't he? I think it was him putting pressure on himself. Maybe it was a personal issue affecting him?

#66 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 21:55

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104110

"He has never experienced the type of pressure that these two guys [Hamilton and Jenson Button] are under. You turn up in a McLaren and if you are not on the front couple of rows then there is a lot of pressure applied to you."

http://www.formula1....ver/2012/6.html

So Jenson has been under a lot of pressure from the team 50% of this season then.

#67 HP

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 23:39

So Jenson has been under a lot of pressure from the team 50% of this season then.


I think it needs to be read that pressure is not coming from McLaren only, but from other sources as well. Button IMO will get the pressure in full force next year. This year there was still Hamilton there and thus deflection some of the attention he'd gotten otherwise.

Next year will be interesting to watch. I do hope Perez does not goes down the same road as Kovalainen. The issue is not McLaren or even MW only. McLaren itself is under a lot of pressure and scrutiny from the media.



#68 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 00:10

Mclaren seems to be an atmopshere where no one really thrives it seems.

I thought Mika did...then remembered Monza 1999....that pressure just bubbling over.

#69 ViMaMo

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:06

I have this sneaking suspicion that there will be an outbreak of contract-ripping before the new season begins. Might be a bit expensive, but Lewis knows he doesn't want Merc and Whitmarsh knows he doesn't want Perez...


I hope that doesn't happen. Honestly, I don't think Lewis should go back. After reading this, never felt Lewis needed to go back for sometime now. Lets see how Mclaren peform without Lewis and how Lewis performs.

Edited by ViMaMo, 09 November 2012 - 01:23.


#70 ElDictatore

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:01

Mclaren seems to be an atmopshere where no one really thrives it seems.

I thought Mika did...then remembered Monza 1999....that pressure just bubbling over.


He did say that 99 was a bit of fight, because he had no time to recover in the winter after winning the WDC. Sponsoring there, sponsoring here. Monza was exceptional i think. See here: http://www.youtube.c...OznFI_8#t=2127s
Plus he got out of the car and the ferrari fans were cheering in front on him while he was probably full on adrenalin.
Btw the whole interview shows a bit that it isn't THAT bad at McLaren. So don't make things up that are just not there. The things you're saying are just guesses (which can be true of course) and nothing more so you should leave it that way as a guess and not make it into reality.

#71 MonzaDriver

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:13

Well, Mika screwed up didn't he? I think it was him putting pressure on himself. Maybe it was a personal issue affecting him?


Yes Dalton007,
all the things you said could are very very likely.

My idea come from the fact that we are speaking about Hakkinen a very very good driver,
how come through a lot of hard moments, in this career, so he was very well experienced in up and down,
in his job. So to me it look very strange this deep sense of desolation in that kneeling down.
So I was wondering if the mood in Mclaren was particulary harsh.

Ciao, MonzaDriver.



#72 F1EC

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:44

Waits for the "Lewis will always be welcome back to drive for McLaren" press release..........


If that's what they want, I'm not sure this is the best way to go about wooing him back:
"I hope he thinks today that he's made an awful mistake and I hope he thinks that next year."
and
"I respect his decision, but I believe that he would be better off with us - we are the stronger team - and we intend to beat him next year."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104127