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#251 whitevisor

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:33

I always smile when I see this argument that "kids might be watching". I knew every swear word under the sun by the age of 8.

And whose heart wasn't warmed by Kimi Raikkonen announcing to Martin Brundle on the grid at Interlagos that he missed Michael Schumacher's pre-race retirement ceremony because "I was having a shit"? Magnificent.


I did too, and I got a thorough spanking for repeating them in front of my dad one day! :) I feel curse words are not bad in and of themselves (well not the real nasty ones!) but they tend to reflect on the person using them.

I think Vettel has more excuses than original English speakers like Hamilton and Button and even the "Latin" speakers like Massa and Alonso who are more intune with the western world... but I know he is Intelligent enough to realize that the "F-bomb" is not something you say on family programming. It's not the first time he has cursed in an interview - I feel he wants to be seen as some sort of "Cool guy" like James Hunt when if fact he comes across as a petulant, nerdy, weirdo German kid.

Edited by whitevisor, 09 November 2012 - 12:34.


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#252 whitevisor

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:34

I reckon Kimi knew exactly what he was doing and did it on purpose :)


Warning shots for the media then. :rotfl:

#253 swerved

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:41

http://www.pitflaps....language-shock/

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:lol:



:lol:


#254 Tsarwash

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:43

Swearing is a disease that needs to be eradicated, so good on F1 for taking a stance.

You really think that swearing is something that can be eradicated ? Eradicating swearing is about as possible as eradicating spoken language. It is not possible to eliminate one without the other. The impact and use of certain swearwords will change and evolve over time, so that something that is massively rude one century is commonplace language in a different one. Spoken language will always need it's extremes, and swearing is just one of them. If you could magically eliminate all current, accepted swearwords from people's vocabularies, then new words will evolve or form to fill the necessary vacuum that you created. Swearing is an essential part of language. And used in an appropriate manner, swear words have more impact than all other words. That's why they are still around, and have been around since the beginning of human civilisation.


#255 trapperjohn

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:46

QUOTE (TFLB @ Nov 8 2012, 15:45) *
Swearing is a disease that needs to be eradicated, so good on F1 for taking a stance.

Do you perchance live in a cave?

Edited by trapperjohn, 09 November 2012 - 12:49.


#256 Brother Fox

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:54

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I demand you take that disgusting filth down now before some innocent children see it and turn to cooking meth by tea time

#257 MrFondue

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:55

I demand you take that disgusting filth down now before some innocent children see it and turn to cooking meth by tea time


Too late :cry:

#258 Racer3

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 13:07

[Vettel] comes across as a petulant, nerdy, weirdo German kid.

Whatever Vettel may come across to immature fanboys, one thing is certain:
He would never utter such nationalistic BS. What has the nationality part to do here?
Not only a Vettel hater, but Germanophobe to boot?

I did too, and I got a thorough spanking for repeating them in front of my dad one day!

He should have given you a spanking for dumb stereotypes.
Go back to your homework and learn for life!




#259 ali_M

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 13:20

I reckon Kimi knew exactly what he was doing and did it on purpose :)


I'm of that view as well.

I feel the same about Vettel as well.

There wasn't really any adrenaline there. I preferred Kimi's swearing since it was genuine. Vettel's was just plain awkward since his emotional state etc. didn't fit it from my POV anyway. Swearing for swearing's sake is one thing. Swearing because you're genuinely pissed at the time is entirely different.

We forget Alonso!!! I guess he wasn't too emotional.... boring too?

Kimi seems to have just about had it with this media 'bullshit' and is quite flagrant about it. I personally find it very funny because I have my own views about it and think the term 'media bullshit' is VERY fitting. But alas, the world doesn't revolve around mine own point of view on this and I am fully aware and accustomed to what it is to behave professionally in a professional situation. There's a distinct difference between a one on one/few discourse vs a one on multi-national/millions discourse. There's a difference between an interview during the podium ceremony and an interview just after jumping out of the car by a single media crew holding a mike to your face while you're still trying to work things out in your mind.

Ignorance is a hell of a thing. Ignorance without insight is particularly abhorrent. I hope that I'm seeing mischief here in this discussion, rather than the latter of the two. There's no problem with having a personal opinion on this. We each do. However, the FIA doesn't respond or base its policies on personal opinions. I find it odd that so many do not or choose not to realize and respect this. Be that as it may, this will be my last comment on the matter here since after reading to this point, I wonder why I even got involved in the first place.

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#260 bub

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 13:33

Kimi's a bad influence on Vettel. Tut, tut  ;)

But seriously I don't think this swearing was a big deal at all.

#261 Diderlo

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 13:36

My family is very conservative so I got raised to NOT to swear. So I didn't. I didn't say even "shit" with my friends until I was like 15+ years old, I just couldn't say it. Later on I have realized that it isn't that bad. The word itself doesn't hurt, the way you say it means more. So nowadays I still NEVER swear in public, but with friends it is ok for me to swear. I use the swearwords mainly for entertainment purposes, not really meaning those words. Half of the usage with my friends is calling others names and the other half is exaggerated frustration (my friends also do this). So I don't really swear seriously at any point and my life is so much easier, because I don't need to seriously avoid swearing anymore. It was somewhat tough to grow up dodging those words like they were some demons which they aren't. Even in therapy when doctor asked me to swear I just couldn't do it and THAT was sick. She said that it could be relaxing and she was right. Just use those words for right purposes.

So my main point here is that it isn't the words, it is what you really mean with those. For instance a "monkey" isn't a swearword, but it can be used to insult people. A dickhead is a swearword, but it can be used without insulting people (I call my friends something like that almost everyday and they call me back and we laugh about it). So even without using swearwords a kid CAN insult others so it really isn't a question of vocabulary, it is a question of will.

Kimi and Seb didn't mean anything too dramatic with those words. Kimi for instance used a bit "lesser" swearword and was joking about it. Maybe it didn't belong in podium ceremony though, but it wasn't that bad. Maybe the only problem I can see is the role model problem, but yeah.. there really wasn't insulting, they were just talking in the heat of the moment without meaning anything bad.

There might be cultural differences though.


#262 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 13:44

I feel the same now as I did then, which is basically what's all the fuss about? Heck, I actually laughed when Kimi and Sebastian dropped the S and F bombs between them.

#263 FigJam

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 14:11

Let them swear...who gives a **** eh!? :lol:

Anyone remember when Villeneuve said the new regulations for the 1998 season were shit? The FIA have never been fond of colourful language. He wasn't wrong though, was he...

#264 Haribo

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 14:27

I thought that this thread would run for a while :p

Overall I don't see either side as a big deal to be honest. We all swear from time to time, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the FIA politely asking drivers not to swear in interviews. Part of the problem is that some countries (I'm thinking of the US here) are VERY "emotional" when it comes to swearwords and if a broadcaster thinks that they might get huge fines for broadcasting swearing, they'll either massively delay/butcher the coverage or just not show parts of it altogether.

#265 panzani

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 14:41

The podium interviews from Silverstone on were just plain boring and meaningless — and it was even commented in here I think.

The first one that added something real to the race end is now being criticised by the powers that be! That's how they feel, FFS! And the Spaniard face was priceless as well!

16th Century minds who should be watching pageant contests with the usual 'Peace in the World' and St. Exupery lines... :down:

#266 BackOnTop

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 15:12

Sebastian Vettel issued the following apology- ESPN F1
On his personal website.
"I'm terribly sorry for using the wrong word on the podium and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone who was watching. In the heat of the moment, I didn't use the right words and I apologise. I'll do it better next time."


Meanwhile, Live on BBC @ Austin GP

Natalie- So Kimi, Vettel has apologized....
Kimi- For what??
Natalie- For swearing on the podium...
Kimi- Bullsh!t!!!


If Kimi apologizes in any shape or form, I will support Alonso in Austin & Brazil GP's. :lol:

Edited by BackOnTop, 09 November 2012 - 15:14.


#267 Sakae

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 15:15

The podium interviews from Silverstone on were just plain boring and meaningless — and it was even commented in here I think.

The first one that added something real to the race end is now being criticised by the powers that be! That's how they feel, FFS! And the Spaniard face was priceless as well!

16th Century minds who should be watching pageant contests with the usual 'Peace in the World' and St. Exupery lines... :down:

Language without obscenities isn't cool in 21st century then? I am not a monk who is shy to go in many moral directions, but count me out on this one, will you?

#268 choyothe

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 15:53

I demand you take that disgusting filth down now before some innocent children see it and turn to cooking meth by tea time


:rotfl:

This thread is hilarious.

#269 panzani

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 16:03

Language without obscenities isn't cool in 21st century then? I am not a monk who is shy to go in many moral directions, but count me out on this one, will you?

What do you define as an obscenity? Certainly wars are obscene, for instance. And many other crimes mankind and its members do daily. But current idiomatic expressions? Language? I'd guess they are not...

#270 maverick69

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 16:13

I'm just glad it wasn't Hamilton! :lol:

#271 johnmhinds

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 16:29

Language without obscenities isn't cool in 21st century then? I am not a monk who is shy to go in many moral directions, but count me out on this one, will you?


Neither drivers used the words in an obscene way.

Nobody can be offended by someone saying that they had been given shit over not being happy, or saying they maybe ****ed up with the car setup, it was all said in a rather childish jovial guys hanging out down the pub way maybe but you'd expect that with a friendly interviewer that they all clearly hang out with a lot behind the scenes.

It's a complete over reaction for the FIA to warn the drivers over it, hey aren't toddlers that are going to start swearing at every opportunity just to push the boundaries, they are adults and know where the line is, and they don't need to be publicly warned for what is probably a one off event that they already knew went a bit too far.

#272 Risil

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 16:30

16th Century minds who should be watching pageant contests with the usual 'Peace in the World' and St. Exupery lines... :down:


Could've done without the "F1 is a corporate sport now, what would the Americans think" editorial from Edd Straw, too. As if the likes of the Rolling Stones don't rake millions from the corporate world. And American audiences don't like swearing, it's true, but give them some good ol' boys scuffling on the podium and their juices will start flowing.

Valentino Rossi's not shy of dropping the occasional F-bomb, either, and F1 (along with pretty much every other sport that doesn't feature Usain Bolt) wishes it had someone as charismatic/popular as him.

Mind you, just about the only thing that translates well across all cultures is Shakespeare and blandness. F1 is arguably not in a good position to deliver either, although I fancy Fernando Alonso would make a good Iago.

Edited by Risil, 09 November 2012 - 16:40.


#273 trogggy

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 16:44

OFCOM.
There are rules for daytime tv, in the uk, the us and presumably elsewhere.
If saying '****' causes a problem for broadcasters then drivers will be asked not to say it.

It's not complicated, there isn't a moral judgement being made.

#274 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 16:50

Oh no, words.

#275 trapperjohn

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 16:54

Could've done without the "F1 is a corporate sport now, what would the Americans think" editorial from Edd Straw, too. As if the likes of the Rolling Stones don't rake millions from the corporate world. And American audiences don't like swearing, it's true, but give them some good ol' boys scuffling on the podium and their juices will start flowing.

Valentino Rossi's not shy of dropping the occasional F-bomb, either, and F1 (along with pretty much every other sport that doesn't feature Usain Bolt) wishes it had someone as charismatic/popular as him.

Mind you, just about the only thing that translates well across all cultures is Shakespeare and blandness. F1 is arguably not in a good position to deliver either, although I fancy Fernando Alonso would make a good Iago.


Yeah, that was piss poor from Edd Straw - was he paid to say that? Felt like Edd's after school special on the evil of language and the prosperities to be found in zombieism and butt kissing. Tyhe america comments made me weep - have they not heard some of the colorful language from NASCAR drivers on air?

#276 trogggy

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 16:54

Oh no, words.

:confused:

What's your point?

#277 johnmhinds

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:00

OFCOM.
There are rules for daytime tv, in the uk, the us and presumably elsewhere.
If saying '****' causes a problem for broadcasters then drivers will be asked not to say it.

It's not complicated, there isn't a moral judgement being made.


They can't mandate what a sportsperson says at an event, only that if the broadcaster knows it will likely happen that they aren't allowed to broadcast it at certain times of the day without it being tape delayed, bleeped out and needs to have various warnings before the event starts.

It's a major pain in the butt for broadcasters and its only there to keep the really tiny minority of viewers that write in to complain happy.

And the bleeping doesn't really anything to mitigate the "offense" taken by anyone and only draws more attention to it happening.

Rules for TV broadcasting are rather ridiculous. You can have people like Gordon Ramsey swearing at everyone like a sailor and being a generally abusive asshole to people in all of his shows, but it's all ok because it's bleeped? Makes perfect sense to me...

#278 jeze

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:04

Oh great are we at it again banning language? ****ing wankers :down:

(sorry mods) :stoned:



#279 uffen

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:06

The idea that foul language is "exciting" or "real" makes me despair. Grow up, people.
I'm sure the drivers can all mimic masterbating - hey that would be really funny, especially if they did it during one of the anthems, or right in front of the dignitaries!
What about prentending to wipe their bums with a flag or their sponsor cap? That would be hilarious. Kids all know about that stuff, it is part of daily life, so why not? They'll learn about ot at school after all, what the hell? Go for it.
Let's swear all the time, everywhere, even after the podium ceremony, lots of people do it.
Nose picking would be cool, too. I'm sure all that adrenalin inside that helmet built a nice load of snot. I'm sure their testicle are itchy sometimes - go on reach inside, go for it.
Let's just make the podium a fun place, no need for decorum or civility.

Yes, I am over the top, but if you substitute "cursing" with some other social interaction these all fit with some of the reasoning going on in this thread.

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#280 Lazy

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:07

They can't mandate what a sportsperson says at an event, only that if the broadcaster knows it will likely happen that they aren't allowed to broadcast it at certain times of the day without it being tape delayed, bleeped out and needs to have various warnings before the event starts.

It's a major pain in the butt for broadcasters and its only there to keep the really tiny minority of viewers that write in to complain happy.

And the bleeping doesn't really anything to mitigate the "offense" taken by anyone and only draws more attention to it happening.

Rules for TV broadcasting are rather ridiculous. You can have people like Gordon Ramsey swearing at everyone like a sailor and being a generally abusive asshole to people in all of his shows, but it's all ok because it's bleeped? Makes perfect sense to me...


For the amount of money broadcasters pay for the rights you'd get quite a big say in what can and can't be said I would imagine.

#281 johnmhinds

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:09

Yes, I am over the top


^ This.

All your "what ifs" are pointless. You're strawmannirg the discussion to death.

#282 spacekid

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:17

Would it be acceptable for the public broadcaster in your country to start the lunchtime bulletin with 'The global economy has gone to sh't. The whole thing is f'cked up'?

Would that be fine, or would the newsreader be asked not to do that again?

#283 Atreiu

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:21

Would it be acceptable for the public broadcaster in your country to start the lunchtime bulletin with 'The global economy has gone to sh't. The whole thing is f'cked up'?

Would that be fine, or would the newsreader be asked not to do that again?



I'd be hilarious.

#284 Skinnyguy

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:22

Would it be acceptable for the public broadcaster in your country to start the lunchtime bulletin with 'The global economy has gone to sh't. The whole thing is f'cked up'?

Would that be fine, or would the newsreader be asked not to do that again?


:lol:

I´d watch!

#285 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:25

, but if it does bring the podium interviews to timely end more power to them.


This.




#286 panzani

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:30

Would it be acceptable for the public broadcaster in your country to start the lunchtime bulletin with 'The global economy has gone to sh't. The whole thing is f'cked up'?

Would that be fine, or would the newsreader be asked not to do that again?

It would, certainly, be more accurate than the shit they usually use, wouldn't it?  ;)

#287 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:30

:confused:

What's your point?

My point is that it's just a noise, I saw an interview with Stephen Fry once where he said he found it incredibly strange that words such as **** are deemed inappropriate and yet words with truly horrible meanings such as torture are used flippantly.

#288 Risil

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:34

The idea that foul language is "exciting" or "real" makes me despair. Grow up, people.
I'm sure the drivers can all mimic masterbating - hey that would be really funny, especially if they did it during one of the anthems, or right in front of the dignitaries!
What about prentending to wipe their bums with a flag or their sponsor cap? That would be hilarious. Kids all know about that stuff, it is part of daily life, so why not? They'll learn about ot at school after all, what the hell? Go for it.
Let's swear all the time, everywhere, even after the podium ceremony, lots of people do it.
Nose picking would be cool, too. I'm sure all that adrenalin inside that helmet built a nice load of snot. I'm sure their testicle are itchy sometimes - go on reach inside, go for it.
Let's just make the podium a fun place, no need for decorum or civility.


That might've been appropriate at Bahrain or Shanghai, come to think of it.

Edited by Risil, 09 November 2012 - 17:35.


#289 bub

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:40

My point is that it's just a noise, I saw an interview with Stephen Fry once where he said he found it incredibly strange that words such as **** are deemed inappropriate and yet words with truly horrible meanings such as torture are used flippantly.


Yeah I've always wondered why one word is considered bad and another word with the exact same meaning is perfectly acceptable...And everybody just goes along with it.

#290 trogggy

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:41

My point is that it's just a noise, I saw an interview with Stephen Fry once where he said he found it incredibly strange that words such as **** are deemed inappropriate and yet words with truly horrible meanings such as torture are used flippantly.

And?
F1 is working within current broadcasting rules. That's all there is to this.
Should they be taking a stand so Seb can say 'f..k' on daytime tv?

#291 P123

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 17:43

They can't mandate what a sportsperson says at an event, only that if the broadcaster knows it will likely happen that they aren't allowed to broadcast it at certain times of the day without it being tape delayed, bleeped out and needs to have various warnings before the event starts.


The broadcasters will just stop showing the post race podium interviews (not entirely a bad thing!). That's where the concern is to the FIA and no doubt Bernie too. The drivers are grown ups. I'm sure they can refrain from swearing during their post race interviews. It's not difficult.

#292 spacekid

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 18:22

My point is that it's just a noise, I saw an interview with Stephen Fry once where he said he found it incredibly strange that words such as **** are deemed inappropriate and yet words with truly horrible meanings such as torture are used flippantly.


Without going in to the whole etymology of it, the words carry a historical cultural meaning to them.

I have already referred to it on this thread, but take a racial epithet beginning with the letter 'N'. Is it appropriate to use in every day conversation? Why not, its just a noise? Because it carries a meaning, and is used to hurt and discriminate against people. In three hundred years time I would bet that the word (or a derivitive of it) is still tabboo, although sometimes used by people ignorant of its original meaning as language changes.

There is a reason why swear words are considered offensive, though the reasons why might not be so clear now. But anyway, we need swear words - how to express certain emotions without a tabboo to use? Tabboo's are useful, and I for one would hate to lose swear words. They can be really handy for causing offence. But then they are better applied as appropriate - used as an exclamation mark and not as a comma, and with an awareness that if we want to keep the power to provoke (and I do) not to cause needless offense at the wrong times. Which really isn't that hard.

Edited by spacekid, 09 November 2012 - 18:22.


#293 trapperjohn

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 18:26

Would it be acceptable for the public broadcaster in your country to start the lunchtime bulletin with 'The global economy has gone to sh't. The whole thing is f'cked up'?

Would that be fine, or would the newsreader be asked not to do that again?


That would be massively refreshing

#294 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 19:31

I demand you take that disgusting filth down now before some innocent children see it and turn to cooking meth by tea time

What I find amusing about your comments here are the way in which they mock people like me who weren't offended by the actual swearing, but appreciate it wasn't appropriate for it to be used at that particular time and have spoken out concerning it.

At no point have I claimed it will damage innocent children and I think the way you have tried to sensationalise my viewpoint is not too dissimilar from the tabloid sensationalism that you and many others here blame for blowing this out of proportion. Its kind of ironic really, enjoyable to read but ironic.

#295 rijole1

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 19:32

As far as I'm concerned, if this is about the FIA wanting to create some form of rules of etiquette for how drivers behave during the podium ceremony, just like Bernie makes all the trucks park in a straight line with all the wheel nuts brightly polished, I don't like it, but so be it.

I still reminisce about the F1 of the 80s when mechanics with Bee Gees hairstyles and massive Reactolite Rapide sunglasses, with a Benny Hedgehog hanging from their gob would work on the cars wearing aburdly short shorts, ankle socks and grubby trainers and not much else, I guess then no one cared because you watched F1 for the racing and because you were a fan, not to see if one of the spice girls would be a guest in the Mclaren pit. I guess the same reason we can't have drivers swearing is the same reason we have F1 races on dull as ditchwater tracks in countries with no interest in F1 and podium celebrations with fizzy rosewater not champagne. MONEY.

I also remember the days of going for a Sunday drive with your Mum and Dad and stopping at a pub for lunch where kids were welcome in the lounge bar but not the public bar. i.e. the days when not everything revolved around bubble wrapped kids and their helicopter parents. Funny thing is people are making a fuss about Kimi saying shit, but it's OK for neanderthal premier league footballers to run around every other day of the week spitting, shoving and using the worst types of racial and sexual epithets which any kid can lip read, but that's just fine thanks :confused: Looking at some of the base behaviour exhibited on an average evening of British TV, I think we have bigger things to get our nickers in a twist over than the very infrequent issue of drivers swearing.


:up: :up:

#296 30ft penguin

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 19:45

I think both used those "bad words" simply because they are not native speakers of English. People in other countries have been so influenced by US culture that words like "sh*t" and "f*ck" have become normal parts of everyday language. When someone here at work makes a typo at the computer, shuts down the wrong server and shouts "F*CK!", nobody is shocked how rude that person is, simply because it is not considered a "bad word which you should not use". On the other hand, if that co-worker would use some really awful German exclamation, people would definitely look at him and wonder if anything SERIOUSLY wrong happened there.

Guess what I am trying to say is that both Kimi and Sebastian did not consider those words particularly rude or offensive, for Sebastian the expression "to f*ck up" was just a slightly more colourful way of saying "make a stupid mistake" and not something which would make 22 viewers get a heart attack.

#297 BetaVersion

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 19:50

I don't know why people are surprised this warning happened.

Do you know why radio messages aren't live in F1 since early 00's decade?

Because of this:




#298 stanga

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 19:52

I'd be hilarious.


I find that very hard to believe.

#299 rijole1

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 20:11

No. That would never ever happen. No one would ever call to complain in Sweden just because someone said "shit". People would just laugh.


Are you really sure? Maybe it is as you say. :)

I live in Sweden and believe it or not, I actually have met many people here who really dislike swearing, almost in a fanatic way
Generally Swedish people think swearing is not a good ting and try to avoid it.
Often swearing in Sweden is associated to lack of education and of course, according the religious people swearing is a sin.
But you're right - antiswearing fanatics aren't a big group in Sweden.

But I really think SVT gets at least some reactions to bad language in TV, if somebody brokes the rule in a show and says s**t
Of course, the level of nastyness in bad language and the amount of it in a TV show plays a role before people react...

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#300 rijole1

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 20:23

I think both used those "bad words" simply because they are not native speakers of English. People in other countries have been so influenced by US culture that words like "sh*t" and "f*ck" have become normal parts of everyday language. When someone here at work makes a typo at the computer, shuts down the wrong server and shouts "F*CK!", nobody is shocked how rude that person is, simply because it is not considered a "bad word which you should not use". On the other hand, if that co-worker would use some really awful German exclamation, people would definitely look at him and wonder if anything SERIOUSLY wrong happened there.

Guess what I am trying to say is that both Kimi and Sebastian did not consider those words particularly rude or offensive, for Sebastian the expression "to f*ck up" was just a slightly more colourful way of saying "make a stupid mistake" and not something which would make 22 viewers get a heart attack.


:up: Agree with you totally.
We from non english speaking countries are totally influenced by US TV show/Film - culture and do not understand these words as particularly rude.