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Whitmarsh on Hamilton, Merc deal, Lewis' regrets & Perez-Jenson pairing!


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#101 ForzaGTR

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 23:50

Why has every issue got to be seen in black and white by fan boys, the Lewis boy's head hasn't been in a good place for much of the last few seasons both he and McLaren have not been consistent pack leading performers, the lack of performance this season i was not helped by tyres that were so full of surprises they would be more suited to a clowns car in the circus.

But the fact is the Mercedes is inferior to the Mclaren and unless Mercedes find a loop hole in the regulations that nobody else has the situation is unlikely to change. On the bright side the combination of Norbert & Ross will no doubt provide Lewis with the support structure he needs to perform well and if he turns in a better performance than Schumacher did against Rosberg jnr he will look good.
But I get the impression Lewis is winding down his career.

At McLaren I have no doubt many will feel let down by Lewis I also suspect some within the team some may think Perez was not the best choice they could have made but I think he will do fine but Di Resta or Jaime Alguersuari would have brought home more bacon.


Why?

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#102 HP

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 00:44

Why has every issue got to be seen in black and white by fan boys, the Lewis boy's head hasn't been in a good place for much of the last few seasons both he and McLaren have not been consistent pack leading performers, the lack of performance this season i was not helped by tyres that were so full of surprises they would be more suited to a clowns car in the circus.

The tires are the same for all teams this year, that's no excuse for a team like McLaren. As quite often, reliability has been McLaren's top woe this year. Having said so, Red Bull had their share of reliability issues too and overcame it. At Ferrari, Alonso has overcome crashes not of his own doing and Ferrari producing a car that wasn't good enough in qualifying. Hamilton made setup mistakes, so he has to share part of the blame, but all in all he's done better than Button.

McLaren didn't win a WCC since 1998 (let's not rehash 2007 here). Ferrari, Renault, Brawn and Red Bull however did all that. Meanwhile there are a whole lot of promises being made year in year out by McLaren on improving their car, which makes DC's "this year is my year" comment (that apparently never was said) look like a side note. The only WDC that McLaren managed to win in the new millennium was candidly enough won by Hamilton.

So for me it's a case of McLaren coming down of their high horses and start to deliver. If they do that then Lewis might have to regret leaving McLaren. We'll see if Mercedes can produce a car that is a championship contender and Lewis being capable of taking advantage of said car. We simply don't know yet. There also can the point be made that Hamilton is a Mercedes man all along in his F1 career.

How, BTW, can anyone regret something that hasn't happened yet?

The responses from MW are really interesting. Read earlier this year when he was praising Hamilton for extraordinary drives, especially after rumors started about Hamilton wanting to leave the team, and then the flip-flop after Hamilton decided to go. To me it comes across that MW thinks that McLaren is the state of art in F1, and everybody can consider themselves lucky to drive or work for the team. Well it's certainly one of the top teams. So the game is on there for MW, Button and Perez to make Hamilton regret anything.

Would be interesting to see what happens - as unlikely it seems at the moment - if Mercedes and Hamilton win both championships next year.

#103 Creepy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 00:53

We will see who regrets what. Specially when Perez performs like Kovalainen and Button (the tire whisperer) has problems with his tires at every race.

They messed up things with Kimi, then with Alonso and now with Hamilton... Will they ever learn?

#104 Seano

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:33

Probably not.

But a bitter MW will have been dismissed a long time before Hamilton ever rejoins McLaren - the shareholders and sponsors won't put up with precious resources being wasted like this much longer.

Edited by Seano, 10 November 2012 - 01:34.


#105 aray

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:01

it is now clear that Macca has much more regret of losing Lewis than Lewis leaving them...
:smoking:

#106 Tauhid

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:40

It's obvious he's bitter about losing such a mega-driver in Lewis Hamilton but to state so publicly about his own regret of not perhaps facilitating and aiding Lewis well enough to re-sign and yet so publicly is just beyond me. This guy is certainly not fit for the top job of a great brand such as McLaren and it can't any more sadder from here on out about how Jenson, Whitmarsh and the whole McLaren team feel the need to comment on Lewis leaving.

I understand you lost someone very valuable to a direct competitor but to constantly come out on public and putting the blame on Lewis for leaving solely for financial reasons is just plain stupid. I thought he'd respect perhaps one of the top 3 McLaren drivers of all time a bit more. It's just disgraceful and the more this drags on, the more this'll tarnish their brand's image. Lewis was selfish on his decision but he has every right to do so because he didn't feel as comfortable in this team as he did maybe 3/4 years back. Who's to blame for the uncomfortable environment? Martin Whitmarsh and his golden boy Jenson Button and the whole McLaren team. Until now, I blamed Lewis partly for ditching his baby-sitter of a team but not anymore. good move LH!

#107 ViMaMo

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:01

And as if some fans arent bad enough to Lewis?

Lewis is the betrayer, he did it for money, he is joining a loser team.

-------------------

And I dont feel the need for MW to justify whatever they did. He is like "we did our best to hold on to him (but frankly i dont know what he was thinking joining merc, maybe they offered him a littttle more money, we groooooomed him u know since he was a little chicken, now he goes off to lay golden eggs for Mercedes, Bah ! what a loser !) ".

So Lewis isnt free to make his own decisions? He should listen to Whitmarsh, and the arm chair critics? What BS! and its again sort of Lewis bashing again.

Im not saying it was a great decision, but Lewis is free to move to whatever team he wants to. Sure its going to hurt some butts, but I wish him good luck!

Edited by ViMaMo, 10 November 2012 - 05:06.


#108 Bartel

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:02

Stop the press, Team Principle just lost the fastest driver in F1 to one of the biggest rivals and isn't happy about it.

#109 BackOnTop

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:38

Stop the press, Team Principle just lost the fastest driver in F1 to one of the biggest rivals and isn't happy about it.

That's great if he does.

But the problem is the team principal claiming "Lewis isn't happy about it"!!

Whitmarsh: I hope Hamilton thinks HE"S MADE A MISTAKE


#110 aray

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:58

It's obvious he's bitter about losing such a mega-driver in Lewis Hamilton but to state so publicly about his own regret of not perhaps facilitating and aiding Lewis well enough to re-sign and yet so publicly is just beyond me. This guy is certainly not fit for the top job of a great brand such as McLaren and it can't any more sadder from here on out about how Jenson, Whitmarsh and the whole McLaren team feel the need to comment on Lewis leaving.

I understand you lost someone very valuable to a direct competitor but to constantly come out on public and putting the blame on Lewis for leaving solely for financial reasons is just plain stupid. I thought he'd respect perhaps one of the top 3 McLaren drivers of all time a bit more. It's just disgraceful and the more this drags on, the more this'll tarnish their brand's image. Lewis was selfish on his decision but he has every right to do so because he didn't feel as comfortable in this team as he did maybe 3/4 years back. Who's to blame for the uncomfortable environment? Martin Whitmarsh and his golden boy Jenson Button and the whole McLaren team. Until now, I blamed Lewis partly for ditching his baby-sitter of a team but not anymore. good move LH!

i will say it again..it was collective failure of Macca and RD is as mush responsible(i believe more) for Lewis fiasco as MW...anyway Macca is bigger than any driver and they will recover sooner or later...

#111 Sakae

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:47

No, just the vocal minority.
Something like 30 people complained about the swearing on the podium last week and
the drivers were reprimanded by the FIA.

He's 100% right to believe that Hamilton has regrets, can you image if he was asked that same
question and he said "nah, Lewis doesn't regret leaving us, and shouldn't - we suck!"
I can only assume that's what the vocal minority of Hamilton fans wanted to hear.

Hamilton hasn't driven a single lap in W04 yet, and it is right to assume that he already has regrets? If so, it makes you wonder if Hamilton as a grown(?) man really is capable of making any decisions and stand behind it, because if he does, I would expect him to grab anyone of many microphones before him, and make a simple statement, putting such speculation on ice very quickly. Point is he hasn't, which might feel his new employer "really good".

#112 jjcale

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:12

Hamilton hasn't driven a single lap in W04 yet, and it is right to assume that he already has regrets? If so, it makes you wonder if Hamilton as a grown(?) man really is capable of making any decisions and stand behind it, because if he does, I would expect him to grab anyone of many microphones before him, and make a simple statement, putting such speculation on ice very quickly. Point is he hasn't, which might feel his new employer "really good".


You follow Ross Brawn and Merc much more closely than I do ... how do they normally react/respond to this sort of thing?

eg sit back and let it blow over or go into Macca style instant PR mode or something esle?

#113 mlsnoopy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:43

To me it sounds like a guy under heavy preasure. Ron can't be happy that Whitmarsh lost Hamilton, Ron can-t be happy that the WDC and the WCC have been lost. But on the other hand it was Hamilton that keept the dream of the WDC and the WCC alive. He performed, he made the diffrene, where as Button has as many points as possible Hamilton should have 150-200 point more. Alos, where would the team be after China when Button went down the wrong set up path, when Hamilton was winning races and Button was fighting with the Caterhams. What if McLaren didn't have Hamilton to show the team what the car was capable.
Whitmarsh is under heavy preassure, with Button he wanted to leave his mark on the team. But it looks like in the proccess he could push the team into miedfield. What if next year Lotus overtakes McLaren, what if Mercedes finishes ahead of them.

#114 f1rules

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:46

Im sorry to say, and i have defended MW for some time, but the way he is handling this lewis affair is just so unprofessional. I don't know which is worse, the latest comment or that he even feels the urge to make a comment. He seems so bitter. Just shut up and move on MW. Also regarding Perez. Ok mclarens driver pairing suck for next year but what can they do. If they are that terrible just fire them and go look for new ones for 2014. I have a feeling next year will be a trial year to get a new structure in place, management+drivers, or thats what I'm hoping for. Maybe for a kevin magnussen :-) There is some hype going on here in denmark. But i only want him there if he is the best. But signals coming out is, he is extremely good. He is nothing like his dad who drove for Steward against rubens.

Edited by f1rules, 10 November 2012 - 08:48.


#115 Sakae

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:47

You follow Ross Brawn and Merc much more closely than I do ... how do they normally react/respond to this sort of thing?

eg sit back and let it blow over or go into Macca style instant PR mode or something esle?

Ross might let this blow by his ears without giving a second though (I think), but in different culture this is quietly, but not overly enthusiastically accepted. It boils down to how Hamilton is, or isn't going to be respected, and of course, if he does or doesn't gives a damn. This might not been on the radar because not too many people read it, but if it is continue and gets it on front pages of prominent newspapers, Hamilton might not find too much love as he might have hoped for. Think of it this way - I will pay you big bucks to work for me, but then you crap at the table you eat. (To use analogy of "Charlie"). Who would like that?

#116 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:50

Mclaren will be the bridesmaid in 2013.......again

Mercedes will be just another team but with another high profile driver


Which will make the most headlines whilst achieving the least?

#117 undersquare

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:59

Whitmarsh keeps mentioning that Checo is the same age as Lewis was when he started. I suspect he's really lost sight of how extraordinary Lewis' first season was, and is in for a big letdown. Age is about the only common factor, Checo being a fairly normal 22-year-old race driver - sometimes quick, more often inconsistent and error-prone.

It's so obvious that a little corner of my mind is wondering if Jenson-love subconsciously steered MW towards young Perez and away from the more dangerous Hulk.

#118 jjcale

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:03

Ross might let this blow by his ears without giving a second though (I think), but in different culture this is quietly, but not overly enthusiastically accepted. It boils down to how Hamilton is, or isn't going to be respected, and of course, if he does or doesn't gives a damn. This might not been on the radar because not too many people read it, but if it is continue and gets it on front pages of prominent newspapers, Hamilton might not find too much love as he might have hoped for. Think of it this way - I will pay you big bucks to work for me, but then you crap at the table you eat. (To use analogy of "Charlie"). Who would like that?


I understood your point but the question that I am asking is: based on your knowledge of Ross and Merc are they likely to want to respond to this story or are they the type to let it blow over without a comment?

The reason I am asking is that I assume that Merc has a PR team that now cares about LH in the same way (or maybe not quite the same way) that Macca care about SP and I assume that LH's supposedly PR savvy managment would also have a view. I cant believe that a guy paid $15m to $20m pa does not have access to publicists or that the folks who are investing at least $60m in him for 3 years dont have PR people to advise them... so I dont take it that this is about what LH thinks is right or not (but I could be wrong ... I am sure no one advises on his tweets :p) ... I more see this as how Merc might tell him to respond or what his advisors tell him to do..... I can easily see a corporte type person weighing the options of having a cat fight with MW and letting it blow over and then deciding on the latter. And it would fit in with LH's calm serene and magnanimous PR front that LH has been using this year (bar twittergate).

... and anyone else can feel free to jump in.


#119 Raziel

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:22

We will see who regrets what. Specially when Perez performs like Kovalainen and Button (the tire whisperer) has problems with his tires at every race.

They messed up things with Kimi, then with Alonso and now with Hamilton... Will they ever learn?


That is so not true! :stoned:

Edited by Raziel, 10 November 2012 - 09:22.


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#120 PretentiousBread

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:44

Yes. But then again the message you were replying to was just an off topic moan about some Hamilton fans. It's not related to the actual interview which is the point of discussion in this topic. According to Whitmarsh they offered Hamilton financial terms that would have made him the highest paid on the grid. Whitmarsh... the crazy fanboy. ;)


Personally I find that a hard one to believe. Even more than Alonso's retainer? Considering their entry offer was a paycut, I don't think Hamilton is that good at bartering! And the fact he left dispite this leads me to believe it's false. Then again if it were true, it all but proves that Hamilton had serious issues with being a McLaren driver.

#121 Coral

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:58

I was shocked by Whitmarsh's comments...he justs sounds bitter and resentful. So he hopes Lewis has regrets and hopes that next year he thinks he has made an awful mistake? I can't believe he would say such a thing. What about wishing Lewis best of luck for the future? What a top grade muppet Whitmarsh is. :down:

I have wanted Lewis to leave McLaren for a long time and with each day that passes I am more certain that he has made the right decision to join Mercedes. Lewis's happy demeanour in the past few weeks, even after a heartbreaking DNF in Abu Dhabi, proves to me that his leaving McLaren is a huge weight off his shoulders. I personally think the relationship between Whitmarsh and Lewis broke down long ago and Whitmarsh only wanted him to stay because of the sponsors.

I disagree with whoever said that Lewis is winding down his career. I don't think we have seen the best of Lewis Hamilton yet! :)

#122 garoidb

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:25

I was shocked by Whitmarsh's comments...he justs sounds bitter and resentful. So he hopes Lewis has regrets and hopes that next year he thinks he has made an awful mistake? I can't believe he would say such a thing. What about wishing Lewis best of luck for the future? What a top grade muppet Whitmarsh is. :down:


I don't think it comes across that way at all. To me, he is saying that he hopes McLaren will be a significantly better team than Mercedes for the next three years. If that is the case, it follows that Lewis would regret his decision. He does not appear, to me, to be wishing Lewis bad luck in any other sense.

I disagree with whoever said that Lewis is winding down his career. I don't think we have seen the best of Lewis Hamilton yet! :)


He certainly shouldn't be winding it down. I would think he is approaching the middle of his career, and will be into the second half of it by the time the Mercedes contract finishes (having completed nine seasons by then).

However, strange things can happen. Look at how the careers of the previous McLaren generation, Kimi career and JPM, have evolved.

#123 Sakae

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:31

I understood your point but the question that I am asking is: based on your knowledge of Ross and Merc are they likely to want to respond to this story or are they the type to let it blow over without a comment?

The reason I am asking is that I assume that Merc has a PR team that now cares about LH in the same way (or maybe not quite the same way) that Macca care about SP and I assume that LH's supposedly PR savvy managment would also have a view. I cant believe that a guy paid $15m to $20m pa does not have access to publicists or that the folks who are investing at least $60m in him for 3 years dont have PR people to advise them... so I dont take it that this is about what LH thinks is right or not (but I could be wrong ... I am sure no one advises on his tweets :p) ... I more see this as how Merc might tell him to respond or what his advisors tell him to do..... I can easily see a corporte type person weighing the options of having a cat fight with MW and letting it blow over and then deciding on the latter. And it would fit in with LH's calm serene and magnanimous PR front that LH has been using this year (bar twittergate).

... and anyone else can feel free to jump in.

I don't think Mercedes-AMG will react on this single incident, but they might react to a developing trend, if there is one. First quietly with Hamilton, and then, again quietly, with Hamilton's management. Mercedes F1 is not having good PR department as evidenced how they mismanaged Schumacher's retirement. Hopefully they learned a lesson or two. As with Ferrari, brand is first, Hamilton is little bit lower on the food chain.



________________

I take exception to consideration that Hamilton has "savvy" management, because if they were as such, Hamilton would be sitting in RB next year 2013 and racing with Vettel, IMO.

#124 jjcale

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:37

I don't think Mercedes-AMG will react on this single incident, but they might react to a developing trend, if there is one. First quietly with Hamilton, and then, again quietly, with Hamilton's management. Mercedes F1 is not having good PR department as evidenced how they mismanaged Schumacher's retirement. Hopefully they learned a lesson or two. As with Ferrari, brand is first, Hamilton is little bit lower on the food chain.



________________

I take exception to consideration that Hamilton has "savvy" management, because if they were as such, Hamilton would be sitting in RB next year 2013 and racing with Vettel, IMO.


Thanks for your insight into Merc's way of thinking.

... sorry to quibble but I actually said "supposedly PR savvy managment" ... I too am not convinced by them.

#125 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:48

I was shocked by Whitmarsh's comments...he justs sounds bitter and resentful. So he hopes Lewis has regrets and hopes that next year he thinks he has made an awful mistake? I can't believe he would say such a thing. What about wishing Lewis best of luck for the future? What a top grade muppet Whitmarsh is. :down:

I have wanted Lewis to leave McLaren for a long time and with each day that passes I am more certain that he has made the right decision to join Mercedes. Lewis's happy demeanour in the past few weeks, even after a heartbreaking DNF in Abu Dhabi, proves to me that his leaving McLaren is a huge weight off his shoulders. I personally think the relationship between Whitmarsh and Lewis broke down long ago and Whitmarsh only wanted him to stay because of the sponsors.

I disagree with whoever said that Lewis is winding down his career. I don't think we have seen the best of Lewis Hamilton yet! :)

Whitmarsh is saying this because he knows very well his team won't be a championship contender next year. Jenson hasn't got the qualifying speed to put the car on the front row, whilst Pérez is a newcomer to a topteam who will no doubt make mistakes. No, next year will be a transition year for McLaren.

#126 study

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 13:05

Whitmarsh is saying this because he knows very well his team won't be a championship contender next year. Jenson hasn't got the qualifying speed to put the car on the front row, whilst Pérez is a newcomer to a topteam who will no doubt make mistakes. No, next year will be a transition year for McLaren.



Isn't every year since 2008 a transition year for McLaren?

#127 Sakae

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 13:15

Thanks for your insight into Merc's way of thinking.

... sorry to quibble but I actually said "supposedly PR savvy managment" ... I too am not convinced by them.

My oversight.

#128 Tonka

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 13:23

Isn't every year since 2008 a transition year for McLaren?



In hindsight....




#129 Sakae

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 16:33

Isn't every year since 2008 a transition year for McLaren?

Are M. Whitmarsh and S. Michael actually safe in their jobs? Opportunity like 2012 doesn't come every year, and doubtfully so in 2013. I usually do not venture into McLaren thread (as that is focused on a car), but with a driver leaving and looking back in team’s history, friend or foe could agree, that something over there is not entirely up to snuff. Last WCC in 1998. BMW and Mercedes both collected a lot of snide comments about their performance despite relatively fresh re-entries into F1 racing, but McLaren team is something else. They might have more problems than just Hamilton’s departure which could be seen merely a symptom, rather than a cause for their situation, current, or the one that will follow.

Edited by Sakae, 10 November 2012 - 16:34.


#130 rijole1

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 19:03

To me it sounds like a guy under heavy preasure. Ron can't be happy that Whitmarsh lost Hamilton, Ron can-t be happy that the WDC and the WCC have been lost. But on the other hand it was Hamilton that keept the dream of the WDC and the WCC alive. He performed, he made the diffrene, where as Button has as many points as possible Hamilton should have 150-200 point more. Alos, where would the team be after China when Button went down the wrong set up path, when Hamilton was winning races and Button was fighting with the Caterhams. What if McLaren didn't have Hamilton to show the team what the car was capable.
Whitmarsh is under heavy preassure, with Button he wanted to leave his mark on the team. But it looks like in the proccess he could push the team into miedfield. What if next year Lotus overtakes McLaren, what if Mercedes finishes ahead of them.


:up: Think so too, it's not like Withmarsh to be so openly aggressive.
The guy is born diplomat and something very serious must be going on behind scenes
Ron and his wolves are after him... :D
Maybe he thinks Lewis has deceived him and McLaren.
And now he's annoyed at Peres and his stupid misstakes in last couple of races


#131 MadYarpen

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 19:30

damn, he is so bitter. And he is not comfortable with Perez at all I think! Like he tried to put him under pressure even before 2013 :drunk:

Edited by MadYarpen, 10 November 2012 - 19:30.


#132 peroa

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 19:43

damn, he is so bitter. And he is not comfortable with Perez at all I think! Like he tried to put him under pressure even before 2013 :drunk:

Yep, that's the point, which boss in his right mind would do that?

#133 Peter Perfect

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 19:48

damn, he is so bitter. And he is not comfortable with Perez at all I think! Like he tried to put him under pressure even before 2013 :drunk:


I get the opposite to be honest. He's talking down expectations (young/inexperienced/not used to dealing with pressure) instead of building him up for a fall and putting emphasis on his raw potential.

He's obviously also still confused why Hamilton left, from which I take that Hamilton never actually spoke to the team about why he was unhappy.

#134 MadYarpen

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 19:59

I get the opposite to be honest. He's talking down expectations (young/inexperienced/not used to dealing with pressure) instead of building him up for a fall and putting emphasis on his raw potential.

He's obviously also still confused why Hamilton left, from which I take that Hamilton never actually spoke to the team about why he was unhappy.


Well, saying how much pressure he will have after not taking front row in first two races is not talking down expectations to me. It is like "Checo you have to deliver right from the start, otherwise you are sooo screwed. YOu don't even realise how hard it will be for you."

Edited by MadYarpen, 10 November 2012 - 20:00.


#135 rijole1

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 20:57

Well, saying how much pressure he will have after not taking front row in first two races is not talking down expectations to me. It is like "Checo you have to deliver right from the start, otherwise you are sooo screwed. YOu don't even realise how hard it will be for you."


I got that impression too about the Perez thing.
Maybe Perez is just a preliminary solution, meanwhile they are looking after some other promising driver, the next McLaren star
Anyway, I think they're not going to have so much patience with Perez making stupid misstakes

#136 Risil

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:15

I think the message to Perez was that he'll be expected not to drive like a rookie. If he's not as consistent and generally on-the-pace as the guy he's replacing was in 2007, he'll be out the door at the end of the year.

People forget these things easily but Whitmarsh was the one who masterminded Button's transition from Brawn to Mclaren, wasn't he? That move had its critics and its unbelievers too, but on the whole it paid off for them.

#137 MadYarpen

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:31

yes, but when it comes from such a negative, bitter interview - it makes really bad impression. You know, I liked when McL were supportive for their drivers, all this win and loose as a team stuff, it was nice. But here it is exactly the opposite. Put it next to "I hope hamilton already regrets his move" aaaand we have a PR disaster.

#138 study

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:36

I think the message to Perez was that he'll be expected not to drive like a rookie. If he's not as consistent and generally on-the-pace as the guy he's replacing was in 2007, he'll be out the door at the end of the year.

People forget these things easily but Whitmarsh was the one who masterminded Button's transition from Brawn to Mclaren, wasn't he? That move had its critics and its unbelievers too, but on the whole it paid off for them.


Does it really matter if Perez drives like a rookie cause the race team have acted like nimcompoops all season, its a bit hypocritical of Whitmarsh to say such things when his own managing is atrocious.


The move paid off? I'd say with Whitmarsh looking to justify his move and make it look like a brilliant decision, including the praise and melding mclaren around Button it could well be the worst decisions he's ever done.

Edited by study, 10 November 2012 - 21:37.


#139 mattferg

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:37

I don't think Mercedes-AMG will react on this single incident, but they might react to a developing trend, if there is one. First quietly with Hamilton, and then, again quietly, with Hamilton's management. Mercedes F1 is not having good PR department as evidenced how they mismanaged Schumacher's retirement. Hopefully they learned a lesson or two. As with Ferrari, brand is first, Hamilton is little bit lower on the food chain.



________________

I take exception to consideration that Hamilton has "savvy" management, because if they were as such, Hamilton would be sitting in RB next year 2013 and racing with Vettel, IMO.


Don't be ridiculous, RBR don't want Hamilton unless Vettel leaves. A team with two world champions PLUS A CAR THAT'S TOP OF THE FIELD causes too many problems and drama. This has been seen so many times, most recently in 2007. The secret to a perfect team is a number one driver who wins titles, with a second driver who wins occasionally but doesn't challenge the WDC. Brawn had this in 2009, and RBR have had for the past three years. Schumi had it. It works best.

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#140 study

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:39

Don't be ridiculous, RBR don't want Hamilton unless Vettel leaves. A team with two world champions PLUS A CAR THAT'S TOP OF THE FIELD causes too many problems and drama. This has been seen so many times, most recently in 2007. The secret to a perfect team is a number one driver who wins titles, with a second driver who wins occasionally but doesn't challenge the WDC. Brawn had this in 2009, and RBR have had for the past three years. Schumi had it. It works best.


And as has being seen in 2010, 2011 and 2012 at McLaren, if they had kept Heikki I think they could very well had one more WDC or WCC, as you say, like it or not, it works best.

#141 Risil

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:45

The move paid off? I'd say with Whitmarsh looking to justify his move and make it look like a brilliant decision, including the praise and melding mclaren around Button it could well be the worst decisions he's ever done.


In the parallel universe where Button didn't finish second in points in 2011, maybe.

#142 garoidb

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:46

I think the message to Perez was that he'll be expected not to drive like a rookie. If he's not as consistent and generally on-the-pace as the guy he's replacing was in 2007, he'll be out the door at the end of the year.


Well, he isn't a rookie this year, let alone next. He will need to perform, and rightly so, although you may be setting the bar a bit high.

#143 garoidb

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:51

And as has being seen in 2010, 2011 and 2012 at McLaren, if they had kept Heikki I think they could very well had one more WDC or WCC, as you say, like it or not, it works best.


You have to wonder why they did that. And at the same time, there was probably an expectation that Lewis would handle Button quite comfortably leaving McLaren with same dynamic as Ferrari and now Red Bull, but with a more solid second driver. Those early wins for Button finished that prospect.

One upside is that they still have a British WDC to placate sponsors even though Lewis has walked.

#144 Risil

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:53

Well, he isn't a rookie this year, let alone next. He will need to perform, and rightly so, although you may be setting the bar a bit high.


That'll be based on Mclaren's own assessment and not on comparison of results, natch. Mclaren aren't likely to be in a situation like in 2007, where it was basically just them and Ferrari every weekend.

Kimi Raikkonen's 2002 season would be another good model. Few mistakes (though his car broke down a lot), absolutely metronomic qualifying performances.

I think it's fair to say that top drivers are rookies twice: once when they first get into F1, and again when they find themselves in a truly competitive team.

#145 garoidb

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 22:19

That'll be based on Mclaren's own assessment and not on comparison of results, natch. Mclaren aren't likely to be in a situation like in 2007, where it was basically just them and Ferrari every weekend.

Kimi Raikkonen's 2002 season would be another good model. Few mistakes (though his car broke down a lot), absolutely metronomic qualifying performances.

I think it's fair to say that top drivers are rookies twice: once when they first get into F1, and again when they find themselves in a truly competitive team.


Yes, true. McLaren will need to keep a watching brief on the driver market to see if they might need to or be able to strengthen the team at the end of 2013 (not prejudging which 2013 driver would lose out).

#146 Sakae

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 22:40

Don't be ridiculous, RBR don't want Hamilton unless Vettel leaves. A team with two world champions PLUS A CAR THAT'S TOP OF THE FIELD causes too many problems and drama. This has been seen so many times, most recently in 2007. The secret to a perfect team is a number one driver who wins titles, with a second driver who wins occasionally but doesn't challenge the WDC. Brawn had this in 2009, and RBR have had for the past three years. Schumi had it. It works best.

We all seem to be falling into "Ferrari modus operandi", but McLaren with Button v. Hamilton. Do you mean to say then that Whitmarsh made mistake in hiring Button, or that Button is happy playing domestic? If so and you tell him, I think he would be surprised. If Hamilton is such a card and WIN-WIN proposition in every direction as rumor has it, Horner should be easy to convince.


#147 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 23:35

To me it sounds like a guy under heavy preasure. Ron can't be happy that Whitmarsh lost Hamilton, Ron can-t be happy that the WDC and the WCC have been lost. But on the other hand it was Hamilton that keept the dream of the WDC and the WCC alive. He performed, he made the diffrene, where as Button has as many points as possible Hamilton should have 150-200 point more. Alos, where would the team be after China when Button went down the wrong set up path, when Hamilton was winning races and Button was fighting with the Caterhams. What if McLaren didn't have Hamilton to show the team what the car was capable.
Whitmarsh is under heavy preassure, with Button he wanted to leave his mark on the team. But it looks like in the proccess he could push the team into miedfield. What if next year Lotus overtakes McLaren, what if Mercedes finishes ahead of them.



It was Ron who made the statement that Lewis would have to do with less money. A sure way to drive Hamilton to seek out offers from other teams.

This statement by Dennis imo was a significant factor in the loss of Hamilton's services by McLaren.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 11 November 2012 - 00:12.


#148 Kucki

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 23:39

I was shocked by Whitmarsh's comments...



I swear to god F1 Fans are the most sensitive people in the world.

Edited by Kucki, 10 November 2012 - 23:40.


#149 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 23:41

I swear to god F1 Fans are the most sensitive people in the world.


:lol:

#150 SmokeScreen

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 23:45

I don't think Mercedes-AMG will react on this single incident, but they might react to a developing trend, if there is one. First quietly with Hamilton, and then, again quietly, with Hamilton's management. Mercedes F1 is not having good PR department as evidenced how they mismanaged Schumacher's retirement. Hopefully they learned a lesson or two. As with Ferrari, brand is first, Hamilton is little bit lower on the food chain.


.... Why the quiet word with Hamilton when it is Whitmarsh making the comments :confused: ?


I think it is time people separated what Hamilton says himself, what is attributed to him by others and what is said about him by people who work with him and therefore are assumed to be in the "know"

the guy gets a lot of flak as a result of all 3 aspects (the middle one usually cos it's the press themselves and this is how they operate).

Whitmarsh is in the latter group - the group constantly drip drip feeding the press with info that we take as gospel but if there is one thing this saga has exposed it is how out of touch the man is/was/has been with his "soon-to-be-former" driver
when you marry that to the fact that this side of January Whitmarsh has not made many sensible utterances or correct predictions then one should really direct one's ire to the one making the comments and not Hamilton.

as far as I see this is just normal service resumed –just another “ it was Lewis wot don it” article timing wise. Button criticises car? Whitmarsh closes ranks and redirects attention to Lewis, AGAIN!
Regrets scmgrets....

I wonder though if his prodding should reap a response does he actually have the stomach for “corporate” brawl he seems to be trying to stir up (there was the attempt to redirect Lewis’ car failure to Mercedes too). Going by how fast he sauntered in the opposite direction of the stewards office in Barcelona, I would seriously doubt it- which is why the notion his bizarre comments are pressure-induced lapse cannot be so far fetched

Moving on
Will McLaren put personal issues aside and grasp a US marketing opportunity to showcase them at their best?
Will Lewis run well?
Will his car finish the race?
The powers that be have only 2 races left to get button in front – I think that is a fascinating championship all on its own.