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F1 and poor TV production....


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#1 steveninthematrix

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 19:51

why is F1's tv production the worst of all motorsports?

some of us, are serious F1/motorsport fans, but sometimes we get no data... show us constantly the speed, throttle use, brake use, G's, intervals between leaders etc....and why no split screen?

when a car pits, we miss the leader for half-a-lap sometimes... why cant F1 look at nascar, indycar, or even dtm, and improve their TV production? *i.e. look below , u can see the leader and pit stops, cmon F1, get with the 21st century*

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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 20:14

Bear in mind in most cases outside of F1 you have one network looking after the racing series. So they institute all the things they want. Side by side, helmet cams, etc. But they also jam in all the ads.

Because of that they're motivated because a better product means more viewers and more commercial income. FOM gets their money the minute they sell off the contract, and hand over a fairly basic feed.

#3 SCUDmissile

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 21:17

I'm sure this has been said, but the 'onthedot 3 laps in replay-athon'.

It is a joke, it is when the cars are at their closest but no, we have to see some random cars get off the line over and over again.

#4 ClubmanGT

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 22:16

The Indy Car one where they show three cars pitting at the same time and the leader is the best.

But no huge tacky ESPN counters and banners please, ugh.

Just bring back the big yellow squares and that will do.

#5 johnmhinds

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 22:49

While the NASCAR style of broadcasting can't be faulted for the shear amount of information the throw at the fans it doesn't half look ugly.

#6 Red17

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:34

Formula 1 TV coverage is an unique body that takes a loooong time to develop and many times you don't see pratical results. How long did it take for Bernie to finally authorise HD?

Side by side is something that I suspect will only happen when someone else picks up the rights.

But in FOM's defense, we do have inboards in all cars and a better overall coverage for incidents around the track. It's unbelievable that a series that likes to call everything else a game almost missed Montoya hitting the truck, and that was in the Daytona 500.

#7 black magic

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:49

the reason is bernie

we hdad viewer controlled in cars etc with bernie tv and because it didnt work out for him financially he packed up his toys and we are left with the crap

#8 SPBHM

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:55

I'm not a big fan of split screen, also I dislike the Nascar graphics, that bar with the positions and all takes to much space and it's not really that good to read...

also I think the amount of ad breaks, safety cars and other characteristics of Nascar differ significantly from F1.

now I would like to have the brake pressure on the onboard graphics for F1, not only a 0 or 1 like it is at the moment.

#9 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:11

I agree. The TV coverage is quite rudimentary. Often I look for if a car is hitting the rev-limiter or how close when they are showing two cars each other in a straight. They are anyway covering that fight. Why not show those graphics all the time?

By now, the fans should have the option to choose whatever driver they want. At least, the five most wanted drivers. Split screen and start-replay thon has already been said. In Q3, you have only 10 drivers. Why not show the split-times of everyone on the circuit?

They should also come up with a plan to show adds without interrupting the race coverage.

Give fans a multitude of options for telemetry data online.

#10 kosmos

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:32

I'm more suprised about the lack of internet coverage, but knowing FOM and Bernie probably they will charge 1000€ for a season pass.

#11 pingu666

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:12

nascar has the delta time thing for qualifying, plus telemetrey

the "HD" of f1 isnt that great either i find :(, dont know why but its just not as good as nascars hd, and im just going off aquired footage for nascar :o

I wish when they did splitscreen they did it full size, theres always some crappy background that you see part off :/



#12 Sakae

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:30

I do not know how feasible it would be, but in another thread there were mentioned 360 cameras which could be mounted onto a car, and get us closer to the driver and his office. I think these kinds of detail oriented shots we are now missing especially in close racing (like individual positions through first corner).

Set of strategically placed overhead cameras around the track like we have seen in World Cup above the field would be another interesting improvement, because current vehicle lens can be really deceiving and most of time doesn’t tell you half the story.

Shots that l like however most are rare overlays how individual drivers take a racing line through chicanes, while in a split screen you can see it correlated to a gear, brake, and RPM (as much as one can believe those data). If I remember correctly one broadcaster has provided those for short time in the past, but then it disappeared, and yet in post-race analysis this would be just beautiful thing to have. I do suspect that in some quarters they still do that, but it is not always perhaps shown, as most non-British broadcasters they quickly cut-off and move to another program.


#13 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:46

Also overhead live telecast of the the starts. It has been said for a long time. But it's never showed like that even though they have cameras positioned that way and shown later during replays.

#14 steveninthematrix

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:57

All I'm asking for is to not miss the race and leaders by showing endless replays of the start and any incident of any kind.....

#15 ViMaMo

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:58

I'd love to see more details like real time gaps between cars, ghost car, real time speed.

#16 Sakae

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:05

All I'm asking for is to not miss the race and leaders by showing endless replays of the start and any incident of any kind.....

Agree, which is why post-race analysis would be really nice, even if just for half an hour. One of the avenues to explore perhaps would be to take it on the internet, if networks refuse to allocate more time. Not everyone has na iPad, but most of us has some kind of notebook, and can access F1 official web site.

#17 03011969

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:05

I've always found it frustrating when they decide to broadcast the face of some nobody in the garage rather than the action, especially when it's somebody utterly irrelevant like a driver's wife/girlfriend. If they want to show the "glamour" side there's plenty of time before and after the race. Sure, Brawn and his banana or Horner and his shakey foot reflect the tension and nerves etc, but there should be a ban on purposely broadcasting non-team people during the race, pretty or otherwise.

#18 tifosiMac

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:13

To be fair some of us just want to watch the race. Things like live timing, red button gimmicks, onboard shots are of no real interest.

#19 ArnageWRC

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:39

Compared to the WRC coverage on MotorsTV, it's positively fantastic!! At least the pictures and sound are in sync.
However, as has been said quite a few times over the years, Bernie isn't au fait with modern technology, so the F1 coverage is quite traditional.

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#20 chrisblades85

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:24

To be fair some of us just want to watch the race.


Not with the Beeb you won't.  ;)

#21 olliek88

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:33

They're always room for improvement but i think FOM are doing a good job. Have to agree on the lap 3 replay-athon though, that needs to be changed. Have to disagree about the NASCAR/Indy coverage being better, in this case more/bigger doesn't equal better for me, its crass and distracting in my opinion.

#22 olliek88

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:34

Not with the Beeb you won't. ;)


Now, now. In fairness he will watch the race, just a few hours later with half of it missing.  ;)

#23 Donkey

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:32

Why do they have to show replays of the start on lap 3 regardless of what is going on in the race?

Argh, it's so infuriating, that's when the racing is at it's closest, especially in the midfield.



#24 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:45

Because if they do it like MotoGP you don't see a replay of the start until 3 laps to go. Which actually works because it's so long afterwards it's like you're watching it for the first time.

#25 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:58

The start replays can be shown in a timely manner when opportunities arise. They don't have to be shoved into your face on lap 3 even when there is lot of action happening on the track. Just like they show replays of some notable events in the middle of the race. They can sneak them in opportune moments. Taking fans for granted is nothing new for F1.

Edited by SpaMaster, 11 November 2012 - 13:13.


#26 Option1

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:00

Although it's gotten better, it still annoys me when the screen-scroll shows how many stops a car has made rather than time gaps. I don't care if they've made 1 or 20 stops, want I want to see is how close they are to the cars around them - it's more immediate, and more informative of the state of the race.

Don't understand why so many don't like the amount of information something like the NASCAR coverage provides. The graphics may be ugly, but at least the information is all there, and I think these days they've pretty much got the amount of screen space they take up pretty well right.

Neil

#27 tifosiMac

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:11

Not with the Beeb you won't. ;)

Now, now. In fairness he will watch the race, just a few hours later with half of it missing. ;)

I've had no problem watching the races so far this season chaps. I always watch delayed even when they are live so that's not an issue.

#28 dau

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:16

Bear in mind in most cases outside of F1 you have one network looking after the racing series. So they institute all the things they want. Side by side, helmet cams, etc. But they also jam in all the ads.

Because of that they're motivated because a better product means more viewers and more commercial income. FOM gets their money the minute they sell off the contract, and hand over a fairly basic feed.

Extra feeds are available to the broadcasters - at a premium of course. Sky has a split screen option on their iPad app as well.

#29 BullHead

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:22

I think the feed is pretty good coverage myself, with exception to the oft mentioned overkill start replays.

#30 Fastcake

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:27

If we ever have split screens on the F1 feed, I hope they never look as hideous as that screenshot. They're wasting about a third of the space on blank background.

#31 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:27

Extra feeds are available to the broadcasters - at a premium of course. Sky has a split screen option on their iPad app as well.


But that's just access to more camera angles. It's not 'features' like you get on a dedicated broadcast.

MotoGP is much the same way. It's a 'basic' cover that each network takes.

#32 noikeee

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:41

Beware of information overload, it's already too much as it is for a casual fan to follow with all the tickers and graphics, and all the different subjects and battles the commentators are talking about at the same time. I know fans always want more more more but sometimes less is more.

All I'd want is camera angles that show the speed better, rather than coming slowly closer and closer in the massive straights - they look slow sometimes when doing 300km/h.

#33 BillBald

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:52

Although it's gotten better, it still annoys me when the screen-scroll shows how many stops a car has made rather than time gaps. I don't care if they've made 1 or 20 stops, want I want to see is how close they are to the cars around them - it's more immediate, and more informative of the state of the race.

Don't understand why so many don't like the amount of information something like the NASCAR coverage provides. The graphics may be ugly, but at least the information is all there, and I think these days they've pretty much got the amount of screen space they take up pretty well right.

Neil


Yes, they can show the number of pitstops, then immediately go back to showing time gaps. Instead they will keep showing pitstops over and over again, even though that info is not going to change until someone makes a pitstop.



#34 dau

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 13:53

But that's just access to more camera angles. It's not 'features' like you get on a dedicated broadcast.

MotoGP is much the same way. It's a 'basic' cover that each network takes.

Yes, but the OP was complaining about the lack of split screens while those probably could be incorporated by broadcasters. The other features are a different story of course.

Though i have to say i prefer the basic information on F1 and MotoGP feeds to the cluttered look of NASCAR broadcasts. Sure they can improve, but i really don't want to see tickers in F1.

#35 olliek88

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 14:01

Yes, but the OP was complaining about the lack of split screens while those probably could be incorporated by broadcasters. The other features are a different story of course.

Though i have to say i prefer the basic information on F1 and MotoGP feeds to the cluttered look of NASCAR broadcasts. Sure they can improve, but i really don't want to see tickers in F1.


They can't, its one feed that goes to their satellite trucks or whatever and then gets beamed to our screens.

#36 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 14:01

We have a ticker at the bottom of the screen sometimes, but it pages rather than scrolls. Though if anything F1 and MotoGP could use it better because they only have to display data for half the amount of cars.

#37 midgrid

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 14:23

Shots that l like however most are rare overlays how individual drivers take a racing line through chicanes, while in a split screen you can see it correlated to a gear, brake, and RPM (as much as one can believe those data). If I remember correctly one broadcaster has provided those for short time in the past, but then it disappeared, and yet in post-race analysis this would be just beautiful thing to have. I do suspect that in some quarters they still do that, but it is not always perhaps shown, as most non-British broadcasters they quickly cut-off and move to another program.



Although it's gotten better, it still annoys me when the screen-scroll shows how many stops a car has made rather than time gaps. I don't care if they've made 1 or 20 stops, want I want to see is how close they are to the cars around them - it's more immediate, and more informative of the state of the race.



Beware of information overload, it's already too much as it is for a casual fan to follow with all the tickers and graphics, and all the different subjects and battles the commentators are talking about at the same time. I know fans always want more more more but sometimes less is more.


Lots of good points in this thread. These are the three that I agree with the most. I think the ideal solution would be for the world feed to remain more-or-less how it is now, which extensive telemetry and other information available on additional channels or online, as is already the case for onboard, pit-lane and driver tracker channels. Having huge amounts of information on the world feed would alienate more people than it would appeal to, in my opinion.


#38 TimRTC

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 14:25

Wouldn't mind split screen for pit stops and while showing replays etc. but otherwise it can be overused in other sports.

#39 dau

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 14:39

They can't, its one feed that goes to their satellite trucks or whatever and then gets beamed to our screens.

No, it isn't, at least not for those broadcasters that offer different camera angles. And split screen:

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#40 olliek88

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 14:48

No, it isn't, at least not for those broadcasters that offer different camera angles. And split screen:

Posted Image


The main feed split with an onboard. Not to different cameras from trackside. Who is going to want to watch an onboard with split screen unless its on an red button/apps interactive service?

#41 dau

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 15:19

The main feed split with an onboard. Not to different cameras from trackside. Who is going to want to watch an onboard with split screen unless its on an red button/apps interactive service?

You said they only get one feed and that's obviously wrong. I'm neither a Sky subscriber nor do i have an iPad, so i don't know what kind of alternative feeds are available - Bernievision for example had channels focusing on the race leaders or back markers.

#42 jj2728

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 15:19

I don't really care about the data. Doesn't mean much to me in the grand scheme of things. Onboards are fine, replays are fine, split screens not so much. I tend to lose interest when too much info is shown. Having said that, I actually prefer SPEED channel's FP sessions, no commentary whatsoever, just the sights and sounds.

#43 Fourjays

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 15:39

To be frank the only thing that irritates me in the F1 coverage is the pit stops list being shown instead of the timing gaps too often.

#44 ayali

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 22:56

Now, now. In fairness he will watch the race, just a few hours later with half of it missing. ;)

That seems to be quite sufficient for the average fan apparently ;)

#45 Muz Bee

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:14

To be frank the only thing that irritates me in the F1 coverage is the pit stops list being shown instead of the timing gaps too often.

I'm with you on that! I detest the gimmicky stuff that purports to show braking/throttle/G forces! What you can learn from that stuff is preschooler knowledge. The timing information has improved in teh last few years but still needs to be increased and tidied up. It should be feasible to have splits from the leader plus number of pitstops shown symbolically and even the same for tyres being used.

NASCAR is over-hyped and is visually cluttered. Maybe split screen could be used sparingly to show the pitstop race - car in pitlane in LH screen, the driver they are battling to get out in front of in RH screen.

Other than that I think the TV is pretty good, I am a minimalist.

#46 ViMaMo

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:34

The g-force, throttle, braking doesnt offer anything much useful unless they happen to compare it with a ghost of a faster car. Anyway how accurate is the present graphics of these?

#47 Sakae

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:57

The main feed split with an onboard. Not to different cameras from trackside. Who is going to want to watch an onboard with split screen unless its on an red button/apps interactive service?

There is some truth in this, and very seldom realized until you get it, and only to reject it. I am thinking about NASCAR TV tagging cars for example. I am not sure how anyone else likes to watch races, but I like as little disturbances/noise as possible, mutting often sound, and just focusing on two or three cars, depends where my driver is. The constant jerking of camera focus and subject might please others, but I find it annoying. Overlays and this kind of detailed info is nice for post-race explanation of details we could not obtain during a race.

Maybe this would help to some of us stop making statements how one car is so-much-faster than the others, and simply realize how well (or badly) racing lines are taken by some drivers, and time is gained or lost as cummulative effect of racecraft.

Edited by Sakae, 12 November 2012 - 08:59.