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HRT in serious danger [Rumor]


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#1 kosmos

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:15

http://www.elconfide...rgencia-109089/


The owner of the team, Banco Popular is selling the team, they already "let go" 32 employees, they need to find a buyer before December 2 or the team is dead. Till there is an official release I guess we should treat it as a rumor, but the source is good.

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#2 Taxi

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:20

http://www.elconfide...rgencia-109089/


The owner of the team, Banco Popular is selling the team, they already "let go" 32 employees, they need to find a buyer before December 2 or the team is dead. Till there is an official release I guess we should treat it as a rumor, but the source is good.

It's shame, as a Spanish team really ads something difference to the sport.




#3 03011969

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:24

If true, I'm sorry for the workers, but as a team they were pretty much an irrelevance. Can't even claim they gave new drivers an opportunity to get on the F1 ladder.

Not quite "good riddance to bad sh!t", but pretty much a "meh".

Edited by 3011969, 12 November 2012 - 13:24.


#4 molive

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:26

Vaya con Dios :wave:

#5 One

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:27

serious rumore considering what Mclaren has said previously, quoted on AMuS, that if one falls the many more can have problem. I assume teams each other 'help' meaning tgere are investments and loans going about in between.

#6 Petroltorque

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:48

serious rumore considering what Mclaren has said previously, quoted on AMuS, that if one falls the many more can have problem. I assume teams each other 'help' meaning tgere are investments and loans going about in between.

Not necessarily. ! suspect the other teams have got better business plans and better strategy. How many competent organisations plan a relocation to Spain at a time of a big economic downturn. Reminds me a bit of biter bit, in that They (Thesan Capital) mounted a hostile takeover of the Carabantes operation. Thesan Capital seem incompetent. They appointed personel to run the team with little or no F1 experience. Lets hope someone more capable comes out of the woodwork to rescue the team.

Edited by Petroltorque, 12 November 2012 - 14:00.


#7 george1981

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:55

10 years ago or so, when Minardi used to hit money troubles it was rumoured that Bernie would help them out occasionally. I wonder if this is the same with HRT. I think HRT don't get the goodwill that Minardi enjoyed but it's not good for Bernie to see a team fold.

#8 sosidge

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:55

They have stretched threadbare resources to the limit - still running a version of the Dallara car they didn't pay for. They have exceeded expectations to still be on the grid in season 3 - but there will be no tears at their departure. Shame for the employees that lose their jobs, but that is life.

#9 One

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 13:58

Not necessarily. ! suspect the other teams have got better business plans and better strategy. How many competent organisations plan a relocation to Spain at a time of a big economic downturn. Reminds me a bit of biter bit. Thesan Capital seem incompetent. They appointed personel to run the team with little or no F1 experience. Lets hope someone more capable comes out of the woodwork to rescue the team.


Agreed. I hope so as well.

Back then when Max was there, the application from Epsilon Eskuadi was rejected.
http://www.archdaily...n-euskadi-acxt/
Looking at this facility I am assuming that they could mounted sound challenge to Formula One from Spain.

#10 cooper

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 14:00

http://www.elconfide...rgencia-109089/


The owner of the team, Banco Popular is selling the team, they already "let go" 32 employees, they need to find a buyer before December 2 or the team is dead. Till there is an official release I guess we should treat it as a rumor, but the source is good.

I think it is definitely true. I have a credible source that told me today that HRT have gone bust.. They have ceased all manufacturing and are shutting down

#11 Sabre1977

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 14:21

http://www.europapre...1112150019.html


The fund TC II Sarl., Current owner of HRT F1 Team, wants to confirm that currently maintains conversations with various groups interested in buying the team. The current management of HRT hopes to close the sale agreement over the coming weeks and thus, allow the team to move forward and be a reference in the current Formula 1 after the significant achievements already this season 2012


The source is Europa Press (Spanish News agency)

Edited by Sabre1977, 12 November 2012 - 14:25.


#12 pingu666

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 14:28

be a shame to see them fold :x

#13 Fastcake

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 14:29

It's shame, as a Spanish team really ads something difference to the sport.


Incompetence?

I wouldn't be surprised if HRT were finished for good this time around. They've survived several changes of ownership but they only ever seem to be treading water, and they don't appear to have much in the way of facilities and personal to offer to any potential buyer. If you wanted to have a team in F1, you'd probably be better off asking the FIA for a new entry for 2014 when the new rules come in.

#14 Petroltorque

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 14:37

http://www.europapre...1112150019.html


The fund TC II Sarl., Current owner of HRT F1 Team, wants to confirm that currently maintains conversations with various groups interested in buying the team. The current management of HRT hopes to close the sale agreement over the coming weeks and thus, allow the team to move forward and be a reference in the current Formula 1 after the significant achievements already this season 2012


The source is Europa Press (Spanish News agency)

Does that mean that they will fund the team till a buyer is found? The problem is to sell the team as a viable concern they need to continue working on the 2013 car. Any cessation of the funding for that means they won't be ready in time and won't find a buyer. Have to admit; Kolles might have been a Bar Steward, but he knew how to keep a team viable.

#15 dau

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 14:48

Agreed. I hope so as well.

Back then when Max was there, the application from Epsilon Eskuadi was rejected.
http://www.archdaily...n-euskadi-acxt/
Looking at this facility I am assuming that they could mounted sound challenge to Formula One from Spain.

Epsilon Euskadi went bankrupt and had to sell that factory. All that's left of them is a mediocre Formula Renault 2.0 team.

#16 teejay

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 15:23

Sure they are holding the back of the grid up, but losing a team is never good. Not like there is 20 competent cashed up entities waiting to take their slot.

#17 Jackmancer

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 15:40

How much would it cost to keep them going? What if (let's be outrageous here), Red Bull bought them? (Or Ferrari, or McLaren...). Not very likely to happen - just wondering how much it would cost and how likely it is that they'll find another buyer.

#18 Petroltorque

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 15:58

How much would it cost to keep them going? What if (let's be outrageous here), Red Bull bought them? (Or Ferrari, or McLaren...). Not very likely to happen - just wondering how much it would cost and how likely it is that they'll find another buyer.

It depends on what assets the team own. I suspect the Caja Majica headquarters is only leased. There's no infra structure, so any potential buyer is purchasing the entry and race equipment. I wonder if this was what Ruiz de Marcos meant when e said he wanted to do things differently. Honestly I would not trust him to run me a bath!

#19 cooper

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 16:16

Here is the official confirmation of their financial issues http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104183

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#20 Slowinfastout

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 17:39

Saward's all guns blazing: Oink, oink, flap, flap.

(I took the liberty of changing the title of his article to the epic one it should have)

#21 olliek88

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:14

Hopefully HRT stick around, hopefully someone with the brains and means can take them over but i'm doubtful. Joe Saward is right though, setting up a team in Spain was a big mistake. Heck, Tony Fernandes realised even setting up a team in Norfolk was too far away from the "F1 belt" in the midlands!

#22 Slowinfastout

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:22

I'm not sure there is anything there to buy.. for all we know HRT isn't even able to build brake ducts that are able to keep the brakes in a safe operating range..

I guess they could still run that car for another year out of total desperation, but in 2014 they would need a new car and that brings us back to the fact they aren't even capable of building brake ducts. :drunk:

There is a limit to flogging a dead horse.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 12 November 2012 - 18:24.


#23 rob6484

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:27

When previous teams have gone under, new teams have bought their entry to the championship off them, like BAR did with Tyrell. So maybe they could morph into a new team, who would be best? it would be great if it was a new manufacturer, but its very unlikely at the moment. I would love Audi, VW, or an American car company in F1 but it wont happen. How about a junior formula team? Like Manor did with its virgin tie-up. Theres loads of good ones out there, but they will all need one thing - lots of money, as ever...

#24 olliek88

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:35

When previous teams have gone under, new teams have bought their entry to the championship off them, like BAR did with Tyrell. So maybe they could morph into a new team, who would be best? it would be great if it was a new manufacturer, but its very unlikely at the moment. I would love Audi, VW, or an American car company in F1 but it wont happen. How about a junior formula team? Like Manor did with its virgin tie-up. Theres loads of good ones out there, but they will all need one thing - lots of money, as ever...


Indeed, ART looked into the possibility of applying for a place in 2010 but decided it wasn't viable. That shows just how much of a challenge getting started, let alone scoring points, is in F1, if one of the most successful and largest junior teams can't come in your going to be hard pushed to find anyone other than a manufacturer thats going to make a proper fist of it.

Which leads too..........cost cutting. They (RBR & Ferrari in particular) might not like it but F1 has to cut costs, or sooner or later we won't have F1, at least not as we know it.

#25 Slowinfastout

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:39

There use to be a stranglehold on F1 entries but now there isn't one.. at the FIA level there is an entry available and if a major player would suddenly appear out of nowhere it would be welcome to use it..

HRT has nothing to offer to anyone serious about going racing in F1, the only upside is the ability to race the current shitboxes for another year, everything else needs to be undone and started from scratch elsewhere to be able to race in 2014, it's an expensive waste of time and money.

It makes much more sense to start from scratch than to actually pay to pick up that mess.

#26 Tardis40

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:41

Peter Hamilton ...err... Peter Windsor, are you reading this? Here's your chance to be a team owner.


#27 Sakae

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:41

Maybe if team is on sale, there could be an opportunity for a new entrant to, well, ENTER!

Shacks, this guy beat me to it, but I have been thinking more of a rising from ashes someone like an automaker..?

Edited by Sakae, 12 November 2012 - 18:43.


#28 Tardis40

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:50

Wasn't Honda talking about getting back in?


#29 Slowinfastout

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:52

Like I said, there is already a free entry slot, it's not like you need to buy HRT to get in..

Also, there is a deadline that is only a few days away:

APPENDIX 7
ENTRY FEES FOR THE 2013 FIA FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
i) The winner of the 2012 World Championship for Constructors will be required to pay a basic fee of US$500,000 plus US$6000 for each point gained in the 2012 World Championship for Constructors.
ii) Every other competitor will be required to pay a basic fee of US$500,000 plus US$5000 for each point that competitor gained in the 2012 World Championship for Constructors.
In both cases the basic fee is due at the time of the application and the remainder by 30 November of the year prior to the year to which this application relates.


The entry slot will free itself up at the end of the month unless HRT somehow finds half a million to keep it under their name.

#30 Timstr11

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 18:59

Wasn't Honda talking about getting back in?

They're not.
But if they were, what value would buying HRT bring? please explain.

#31 Petroltorque

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:01

No automaker is coming back as a team owner. If they enter it will be on the back of supply. The tragedy for HRT is that the don't have deals on chassis, engine or transmission for 2013.

#32 H2H

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:02

"When a management with a reputation of brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact." – Warren Buffett



(Not that the management of HRT has a particular reputation of brilliance.)

Saward actually has a point about it, personally I would never invest into a business in which the bad economics are so stacked against you. It is much easier to make money elsewhere. His argument about the cluster makes tried and true economic sense.

Edited by H2H, 12 November 2012 - 19:02.


#33 cooper

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:02

Wasn't Honda talking about getting back in?

Quite seriously talking about entering back into F1. Mark Preston ex McLaren I believe is in talks with them

#34 cbbcisace

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:04

No automaker is coming back as a team owner. If they enter it will be on the back of supply. The tragedy for HRT is that the don't have deals on chassis, engine or transmission for 2013.


Carbotech, Williams and Cosworth?

#35 Slowinfastout

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:11

I know Marussia announced they have a deal with Cosworth for 2013, but I don't remember anything similar for HRT.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102028

Symonds also confirmed that Marussia would continue with Cosworth engines for a fourth season.


-----

HRT ----->

#36 Petroltorque

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:13

Carbotech, Williams and Cosworth?

Is there any confirmation of that? Any deal has to be paid for and Carbotech Gmbh requires top dollar. There has been no official announcement.

#37 ensign14

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:18

Epsilon Euskadi went bankrupt and had to sell that factory. All that's left of them is a mediocre Formula Renault 2.0 team.

If they'd've made it into F1, I wonder whether they would have gone bankrupt...

#38 johnmhinds

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:18

If true, I'm sorry for the workers, but as a team they were pretty much an irrelevance. Can't even claim they gave new drivers an opportunity to get on the F1 ladder.

Not quite "good riddance to bad sh!t", but pretty much a "meh".


Bruno Senna?

Seems the whole HRT operation is dead at this point, they've left it too late for any group to come in and start developing a new car for 2013.

#39 HistoryFan

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:27

Quite seriously talking about entering back into F1. Mark Preston ex McLaren I believe is in talks with them


So Preston is in talks with Honda to re-enter F1? Where have you this from?
Was is Preston doing at the moment?

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#40 cooper

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 19:30

So Preston is in talks with Honda to re-enter F1? Where have you this from?
Was is Preston doing at the moment?

I have some friends who work in F1. I believe Mark is currently running a manufacturing company called Formtech, they do stuff for lotus, HRT (used to) etc..

#41 Tommorris747

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 21:07

With Cosworth and HRT a buyer could get a complete manufacturer. If it wasn't sure it could test the water and take a piece of Marussia. That's three F1 names up for sale which one is next?

#42 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 22:07

Is this a thread about Hormone Replacement Therapy getting banned?

#43 Creepy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 22:08

It's shame, as a Spanish team really ads something difference to the sport.


I'm from Spain and I fail to see what HRT is adding to the sport (though I appreciate your cute gesticure :p). Maybe other than allowing "the nice Pedro" to race? The only thing they achieved is shutting up those mouths that said the team would not be able to get into the 107% rule.

Said that, I don't think HRT is leaving. According to some sources from Spain they have people interested in entering as investors:

"Estamos muy orgullosos de la labor de todo el equipo y de la excelente evolución deportiva alcanzada pero ha llegado el momento de que el equipo siga creciendo con nuevos apoyos financieros. Estamos seguros de que el potencial deportivo del equipo es enorme y de que la presencia de nuevos inversores puede impulsarlo exponencialmente", sentencia.


We're really proud of the work done by our team and our excelent development achieved, but we've reached a moment needed for the team to keep on growing with new financial support. We're sure that our potential as a team is huge and that the presence of new investors could push up the team a lot".


pd: my own translation, which could not be exact :lol:, but basically that's it.

Expansión

It could be that they are playing mind games and that they are really bankrupt, but if I stick to what they say, they could stay for sure in F1.

Edited by Creepy, 12 November 2012 - 22:11.


#44 olliek88

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 22:59

Is this a thread about Hormone Replacement Therapy getting banned?




#45 Fastcake

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 23:39

If they'd've made it into F1, I wonder whether they would have gone bankrupt...


You can't really say. There is no proof that their backing would of been anymore stable than the money Campos claimed to have.

#46 Brandz07

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 23:49

They're not.
But if they were, what value would buying HRT bring? please explain.


They'd be buying the grid spot rather than anything else HRT have to offer I guess.

#47 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:20

HRT's owners are Salesmen not Businessmen. They took a viable operation under Kolles and proceeded to dismantle it. If they had given Kolles the amount of money they have wasted in setting up afresh in Spain, they would probably be ahead of Caterham and Marussia.
I'm left wondering which right thinking company is going to buy them since we now know it's going to cost them above the odds to operate out of Spain?

#48 Sakae

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:39

Wasn't Honda talking about getting back in?

I am not certain if it is not late, whether it would be Honda or anyone else, but opportunity is there, and I hope that I have it right, because there was limit on entrants, and here could be an empty seat to fill, assuming HRT steps out.

#49 Hanzo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:55

At least we will have the great couple "De la Rosa - Gené" on the commentary box back. :clap:

#50 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:18

I am not certain if it is not late, whether it would be Honda or anyone else, but opportunity is there, and I hope that I have it right, because there was limit on entrants, and here could be an empty seat to fill, assuming HRT steps out.

There would be 2 vacant spots if HRT folds. Honda is not coming back to F1 as a team owner. That method of thinking got Thesan Capital in the situation they are in now.