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HRT in serious danger [Rumor]


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#201 silencer

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:00

we need moving chicanes... someone in China should by this team..

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#202 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:45

I absolutely want more cars on the grid, up to 30 or more if possible, so I am very sad if they will not be there anymore next year. That would also mean two seats less for drivers and it's already so hard to get on the grid for young drivers. Dani Clos had a shot here but not anymore I guess. And thanks to HRT drivers like Bruno Senna or Daniel Ricciardo had their first taste of F1 here.

You can never have more than 26 cars on the grid. The total number of cars is determined by the number the shortest track can accomodate. That's Monte Carlo. Pre-qualifying is just not financially viable for any team. In any event anyone asking for large grids should consider why the vacant 13th spot has never been filled.

Edited by Petroltorque, 24 November 2012 - 08:51.


#203 Wiggy

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:05

If this turns out to be their last race, as expected, then farewell to HRT. Someone has to be at the back of the grid, and i love the underdogs.

I think they've done a great job on a shoestring budget...

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#204 Wiggy

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:09

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Mechanics signing a tyre...

#205 Wiggy

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:10

Crazy to see the painted over decals over the car in various places. Chronic lack of parts.

#206 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:20

If they sell it for a pound like Brawn did, I've got a pound burning a hole in my pocket. I was going to use it to use a trolley in Asda but I think I'll keep hold of it now just in case.


You realise you would inherit the massive debt too?

#207 Petroltorque

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 13:09

Have they got excessive debt? I thought the reason Thesan are shutting the operation is to write off the loan to Banco Popular. AFAIK Thesan are liable for that loan and not a prospective buyer.

#208 amppatel

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 13:37

Did anyone else notice the FOM showing quite a lot of the HRT cars in Qualy yesterday? Shame they don't do it every week!

Edited by amppatel, 25 November 2012 - 13:37.


#209 cbbcisace

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 14:59

Have they got excessive debt? I thought the reason Thesan are shutting the operation is to write off the loan to Banco Popular. AFAIK Thesan are liable for that loan and not a prospective buyer.


Exactly right.

#210 cbbcisace

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 15:17

@ AndyBonoF1: The owner of TV3 KH7 ensures that HRT next year could be a Spanish-Chinese team with Ma Qing Hua at the wheel .... :-) # F1

#211 Petroltorque

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:07

@ AndyBonoF1: The owner of TV3 KH7 ensures that HRT next year could be a Spanish-Chinese team with Ma Qing Hua at the wheel .... :-) # F1

Spanish team in name only. The only salvation for HRT is if they are taken over by someone with an existing race facility.

#212 cbbcisace

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:32

Spanish team in name only. The only salvation for HRT is if they are taken over by someone with an existing race facility.


Would that mean Kolles back?

#213 ensign14

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:40

Spanish team in name only.

They could call them SINO. That would work in every respect.

#214 jcbc3

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:44

neat.

#215 noikeee

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:47

I really don't want to see a driver with an appalling feeder series record and only a few Chinese touring car wins in F1, but if it's the team's salvation so be it. We need as many cars as we can get in F1.

Hope this wasn't the last we've seen of HRT. It's quite impressive that they're still here after 3 years with all of the trainwreck deals that they were involved with, and the awful timing of their entry into F1.

#216 Petroltorque

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:11

I really don't want to see a driver with an appalling feeder series record and only a few Chinese touring car wins in F1, but if it's the team's salvation so be it. We need as many cars as we can get in F1.

Hope this wasn't the last we've seen of HRT. It's quite impressive that they're still here after 3 years with all of the trainwreck deals that they were involved with, and the awful timing of their entry into F1.

HRT would still be around if the owners had not wasted the budget in setting up in Spain instead of spending it on the car.
I think there's zero chance of Ma getting a seat anywhere. The other team owners would simply block it as he's a liability. I can't remember a team with so many iunfounded rumours around it. Nor can I see Kolles returning to sort out the mess.

Edited by Petroltorque, 26 November 2012 - 10:13.


#217 skinnylizard

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:28

i am quite surprised that there has not been a Middle Eastern, Chinese or Russian purchased F1 team till now ! this would be a good move i reckon. Buy em out for 70c on the $ and then make an investment.

#218 mgs315

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:32

I just wonder if Ma Qing Ha is any worse than Yuji Ide..

Could prove.. interesting.

#219 KingB

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:37

i am quite surprised that there has not been a Middle Eastern, Chinese or Russian purchased F1 team till now ! this would be a good move i reckon. Buy em out for 70c on the $ and then make an investment.

MaRussia? :D
Midland?

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#220 lustigson

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:57

Always sad to see an F1 team go, even if they're the perennial backmarkers, like HRT.

I don't think their model is feasible: a rented base in Madrid, contracters developing the cars, bought-in parts and gearboxes — there's no value in the team to base their price on. Sadly.

#221 Jejking

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:32

I'll miss them, if they don't make it through the winter. Their cars always looked very smooth, loved the design, except for 2010.

#222 Clatter

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:17

HRT would still be around if the owners had not wasted the budget in setting up in Spain instead of spending it on the car.
I think there's zero chance of Ma getting a seat anywhere. The other team owners would simply block it as he's a liability. I can't remember a team with so many iunfounded rumours around it. Nor can I see Kolles returning to sort out the mess.


Not the best location but the budget would still have been spent no matter where the team was based.

#223 Petroltorque

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:39

Not the best location but the budget would still have been spent no matter where the team was based.

There's no question all the budget would be spent. By attempting to set up anew certain one off costs would appear on the balance sheet. These include; cost of leasing and equiping a new factory, hiring new design and race staff.
Last year's budget was €35 million. This year's was alleged to be €50 million. So HRT spent 40% more producing a car that was less competitive and less reliable.
It really does not look like anyone is going to step in to sort out the mess. It would mean spending more money relocating to another country and having to source a chassis in limited time.

Edited by Petroltorque, 27 November 2012 - 08:54.


#224 skinnylizard

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:53

MaRussia? :D
Midland?


i stand corrected :) funnily though, what i meant was Abramovich :)

#225 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:57

Sad really :
"Police called to HRT factory over fighting 'drunk British' mechanics wanting their redundancy money:"


http://www.elmundo.e...1354018304.html

#226 lambylamby

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 00:46

Hace 4 años propuse a un amigo que hiciera un equipo de F1. Hoy después de 3 temporadas se ha escrito la última página de HRT. SUERTE AMIGOS

4 years ago I suggested to a friend to make a F1 team. Today after 3 seasons he has written the last page of HRT. LUCK FRIENDS

Tony cuquerellas twitter an hour ago.

Sad, as uncompetitive they were I wish the best for teams that have good intentions..... RIP HRT

#227 Sakae

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:08

Has FOM confirmed in a public statement HRT exit out of the F1?

#228 Petroltorque

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:01

Has FOM confirmed in a public statement HRT exit out of the F1?

The body is cold and lifeless but you still want the doctor to proclaim life extinct? HRT never really had a solid footing. Too many fires to fight and it finally caught up with them.

#229 Dolph

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:11

Crazy to see the painted over decals over the car in various places. Chronic lack of parts.


Painted over decals?????????

#230 Creepy

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:05

The body is cold and lifeless but you still want the doctor to proclaim life extinct? HRT never really had a solid footing. Too many fires to fight and it finally caught up with them.


Why such constant negativity? They were not going to make it into the 107% rule either... So indeed, we need the doctor to proclaim that their life went extinct. :wave:

#231 Petroltorque

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:49

Why such constant negativity? They were not going to make it into the 107% rule either... So indeed, we need the doctor to proclaim that their life went extinct. :wave:

Negativity did not kill them. A chronic lack of money did. At no stage of their existenec did they have a budget approaching the projected cost cap. You just can't run an F1 team with an average income of €30 millions.

#232 george1981

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:01

I'd heard that the FIA had let them lodge their entry for next year and would get the fee when/if they got themselves sorted.
It seems to be the most reasonable thing to do in the situation. Without an entry they are completely sunk, even with it they've got very little hope unfortunately.

#233 Der Pate

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 14:13

Should the FIA have picked other teams instead of the three, which were chosen?

#234 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 14:19

Honda should buy them and call it Super Aguri.



#235 BoschKurve

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 14:27

Honda should buy them and call it Super Aguri.


Some remnants of Super Aguri are still on display...it just so happens the team is called Mercedes. :smoking:

F1 really needs to get two additional teams onto the grid since HRT is now finished off. I'd love to see 26 cars lining up again.

#236 Petroltorque

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 16:30

Should the FIA have picked other teams instead of the three, which were chosen?

Who would you have chosen? Lola cars, Epsilon Euskadi have all gone bust. Prodrive? Perhaps( they're looking to offload Aston Martin) and Dave Richards was not in favour with the FIA. The rest of the entries were hardly credible. The real mistake was allowing USF1 an entry.

Edited by Petroltorque, 01 December 2012 - 19:08.


#237 Fastcake

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 16:32

Should the FIA have picked other teams instead of the three, which were chosen?


There's no guarantee any of the other teams that were in contention wouldn't have ended up the same way. Just remember on paper the bid from Campos racing team and Dallara looked alright - then the money never turned up and they barely managed to tread water. Could have happened to anyone.

#238 cbbcisace

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 16:37

HRT are officially not on the Entry List... That's that then.

Close thread?

Edited by cbbcisace, 01 December 2012 - 16:42.


#239 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:28

HRT fails to find buyer before 2013 Formula 1 entry deadline
By Edd Straw Saturday, December 1st 2012, 17:44 GMT

Narain Karthikeyan, HRT, Interlagos 2012The HRT Formula 1 team looks set to officially close down after failing to find a buyer before the FIA's deadline for 2013 entries on Friday.

The squad was absent from the 22-car entry list published by the governing body on Saturday.

HRT had been put up for sale by owner Thesan Capital just before the United States Grand Prix.

Attempts were made to find a buyer before the entry deadline. AUTOSPORT understands that Chinese company Chery Automobile among those involved in talks to save HRT.

Sources indicate that the team is now working to pay its creditors and that the plan is for the team to shut down without unpaid debts.

Team representatives declined to comment on the current situation.

HRT was originally launched as Campos Meta by former F1 driver Adrian Campos when the FIA invited new entries for the 2010 season.

But its first reconstitution happened before it even made the grid, as former Jordan/Midland boss Colin Kolles was parachuted in to lead a last-minute rescue when the project hit funding problems.

Kolles saw the renamed Hispania team through to the middle of the 2011 season, when it was bought by Thesan.

It was relocated to a Madrid base in an attempt to revive the Spanish team image that Campos had originally planned, with Luis Perez-Sala installed as team boss.

Designing its own car for the first time after adapting a Dallara-produced chassis in its early years, HRT hinted at progress in 2012 as it briefly closed on Marussia.

But it drifted away at the tail of the field by the end of the year, with its funding problems clearly apparent as tales of parts shortages dominated what turned out to be its final races.

HRT had beaten Marussia to 11th spot in the constructors' championship in its first two years, before falling to last in 2012.

It is the first F1 team to close down since Super Aguri's mid-2008 exit.


Finally it's lights out for this sorry excuse for an F1 team. Took them long enough though.

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#240 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:31

Good riddance. Such a pointless team.

#241 MrFondue

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:35

Good riddance. Such a pointless team.


So, pretty much like Ferarri?

#242 lambylamby

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:37

So, pretty much like Ferarri?


I was about to reply with the same... hehehe.

#243 D.M.N.

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:40

https://twitter.com/eddstrawF1

To be fair to HRT, while it was always underfunded and struggling, some good people were there and the race team was an effective unit. BTW, HRT doesn't deserve to be remembered with the Andrea Modas and the Lifes of F1. It was a serious, if tiny, team there were outfits in the past that turned up without even basic equipment. HRT at least approached things in the right way. I think those who worked in the garage at HRT getting the best out of the cars deserve credit for their efforts.

Completely agree with Edd. :up:

#244 showtime

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:41

Sad news, one team closing is never good and this one was trying to do something different, shame the global situation was not favourable. I don't get all the hate shown against them, lately hating teams/drivers is the trend in this forum :down:

#245 ExFlagMan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:59

You have to feel sorry for the small teams that got shafted by the larger teams/FIA/Max Mosley etc.
Entered F1 on the premise that there would be resource restrictions only to find it was all a lie.
To my mind they have worked miracles to have lasted for 3 years. Without these small teams where do new drivers get a foothold in F1? - less chance now of some new Alonso, Vettel, Perez, Hulkenberg, Massa etc to get a start.
Also without new start-up teams where do the replacements for the Brawns, Neweys etc get a grounding in F1. Most of the current top teams where back-of-the grid outfits at some point.

#246 ExFlagMan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 19:01

Sad news, one team closing is never good and this one was trying to do something different, shame the global situation was not favourable. I don't get all the hate shown against them, lately hating teams/drivers is the trend in this forum :down:

Totally agree - most of the vitriolic posters here have probably never been to any motor racing circuit in their lives, let alone F1.

#247 Tommorris747

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 19:07

There's no guarantee any of the other teams that were in contention wouldn't have ended up the same way. Just remember on paper the bid from Campos racing team and Dallara looked alright - then the money never turned up and they barely managed to tread water. Could have happened to anyone.


You are absolutely right but the whole selection process seemed unusual. The FIA apparently demanded that the new teams had to run a Cosworth (which is what ruled out Prodrive et al) and Cosworth then got £3m in 2009 from one of the companies Bernie runs just so it could retune its engines for the new teams. Looking back this was a lot of fuss for very little gain. The new teams were hyped as being F1's saviours and proving that you didn't have to be a billionaire or a car manufacturer to sign up. Looking at what has happened with HRT it is all very ironic.

#248 Wiggy

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 19:25

The real hardcore racers are the ones who do it despite no hope of winning or scoring points.

Those who are overjoyed at an F1 teams demise... Can they really call themselves fans?

Imagine if Minardi hadn't been around to give hopeless talents such as Alonso a season in a back of the grid car.

Someone always has to be at the back, will the wolves start preying on Marussia now?

#249 Petroltorque

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 19:34

HRT did not go bust due to the lack of a cost cap. They folded due to a lack of money. The big teams will never agree to budget restrictions as simply outspending your rivals delivers an advantagea. Its worth noting that HRT's relative successes of of 2010 and 2011 were achieved under a different regime. I'm convinced that Thesan's move to Spain was simpy to save money. The reduced staff numbers and were no longer paying big bucks to Kolles' operation. It also explains the switch of chassis supplier. HRT's average budget was around €30 million a year. Present day F1 is too engineering intensive to run a team on such meagre pickings.

Edited by Petroltorque, 01 December 2012 - 19:46.


#250 SpaMaster

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 19:38

The real hardcore racers are the ones who do it despite no hope of winning or scoring points.

Those who are overjoyed at an F1 teams demise... Can they really call themselves fans?

Imagine if Minardi hadn't been around to give hopeless talents such as Alonso a season in a back of the grid car.

Someone always has to be at the back, will the wolves start preying on Marussia now?

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