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2013 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB


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#1201 Nova

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:39

I kind of feel bad for Dani. Being team leader, having won most of the last half of last season, he must have tasted the championship in his mouth. Now he has been beaten by his 20 year old team mate in the two first races in the season, and that in Marquez first season in MotoGp.

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#1202 aray

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:49

Marquez is a genius. People like Lorenzo and Pedrosa, particularly Jorge, are very talented but to me they look like the product of a ruthless work ethic. But Marquez... he seems to have an special gift, he's so natural, so easily on the limit, but not beyond, so committed. With a bit of luck on his side he'll become a living legend soon.

Happy days for motorcycle racing.

Lorenzo got 3 poles in his first 3 races and his team-mate was Rossi...Marquez is perhaps as good as Lorenzo in term of talent....but not ahead....

#1203 ViMaMo

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:59

Marc Marq is an alien but not a super alien.

#1204 Dalton007

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:05

In qatar, he got thumped by his team-mate + had a clumsy first lap after lacklustre qualifying, fought back through the pack, but that yam was a monster there. I didn't say terrible, just ordinary.


I wouldn't say thumped. Lorenzo got a great start, Rossi had to fight because he made a mistake. A great comeback ride to get second.

Rossi's qualifying is pretty poor, though.

#1205 GSiebert

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:15

Lorenzo got 3 poles in his first 3 races and his team-mate was Rossi...Marquez is perhaps as good as Lorenzo in term of talent....but not ahead....

It would be too easy if talent was measurable with numbers of poles and wins.

#1206 chumma

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:34

I bet the people who made fun of me for saying Marquez for title in first season are looking a bit nervous now!

#1207 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:45

Lorenzo got 3 poles in his first 3 races and his team-mate was Rossi...Marquez is perhaps as good as Lorenzo in term of talent....but not ahead....

A little further into the record books:
year class wc
Lorenzo
2002 125 21
2003 125 12
2004 125 4
2005 250 5
2006 250 1
2007 250 1
2008 MotoGP 4
2009 MotoGP 2
2010 MotoGP 1
2011 MotoGP 2
2012 MotoGP 1
2013 MotoGP 2 (so far)

Marquez
2008 125 13
2009 125 8
2010 125 1
2011 Moto2 2 (Would have won comfortably had he not missed the last 2 races)
2012 Moto2 1
2013 MotoGP 1 (so far)

In Lorenzo's first year in MotoGP he finished 4th in the championship with 190 points, His team mate won with 373 points almost twice as many.
Not taking anything away from Lorenzo but I really don't think his first year is going to compare to Marquez's, providing he doesn't injure himself which after his 1st 2 races looks unlikely, he has ridden like an old hand, he doesn't look like a desperate rookie trying to prove himself.

#1208 seahawk

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:57

On the other hand 2008 Lorenzo was on Michelin´s compared to Rossi on Bridgestone.

#1209 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:07

On the other hand 2008 Lorenzo was on Michelin´s compared to Rossi on Bridgestone.

And Rossi beat him the following year on the same tyres

#1210 rhukkas

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:11

I wanna see marc Marquez on the Ducati.

#1211 GSiebert

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:13

Any idea why Marquez is listed as 1st in the championship standings ? What separates him from Lorenzo ?

#1212 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:15

Any idea why Marquez is listed as 1st in the championship standings ? What separates him from Lorenzo ?

I don't know, i thought it would be the other way round as Lorenzo got his win first, maybe everyone just wants Marquez to be 1st ;)

#1213 Smile17

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:27

I kind of feel bad for Dani. Being team leader, having won most of the last half of last season, he must have tasted the championship in his mouth. Now he has been beaten by his 20 year old team mate in the two first races in the season, and that in Marquez first season in MotoGp.


Pedrosa has always started a bit slow and usually takes zero risks at this stage. He's not going to be rattled by his team mate (yet). Personally I would be more worried by the smooth yamaha, they will be unbeatable at some races.


#1214 Realyn

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:04

Marquez aside Rossi is on for a rough time. Wonder if he'll finish ahead of Crutchlow and Bradl again this year.

Edited by Realyn, 22 April 2013 - 10:05.


#1215 wayned

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:06

Any idea why Marquez is listed as 1st in the championship standings ? What separates him from Lorenzo ?



They said on TV last night it is based on number of laps leading the race

Edited by wayned, 22 April 2013 - 10:08.


#1216 jrg19

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:12

I heard that but JL lead the whole Qatar race and Marc only lead half of Austin?

#1217 DS27

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:17

Jorg has led more laps the Marc, in fact Pedrosa has led more laps then Marc..

How long is Rossi's deal for; one year or two?

Edited by DS27, 22 April 2013 - 10:19.


#1218 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:22

Rossi on a 2 year deal
He is testing a Nascar tomorrow

What the journalists who went to speak to Rossi did learn is that the reason he finished so far down the field was in part a brake problem, where a chip from one of his disks had come off, causing a vibration under braking. The other part - and perhaps at least as significant - was that they had tried a radically revised weight distribution during the warm up, which had turned out to work quite well. So in the race they went even further, but that proved to be a step too far.

http://www.motogpmat...d_up_of_re.html

#1219 Seanspeed

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:26

I wanna see marc Marquez on the Ducati.

I do not wish that pain on anybody.

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#1220 Nova

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:28

Pedrosa has always started a bit slow and usually takes zero risks at this stage. He's not going to be rattled by his team mate (yet). Personally I would be more worried by the smooth yamaha, they will be unbeatable at some races.


I still hold Lorenzo as favorite for the title, but having your inexperienced parter beat you in his two first races have to sting.

#1221 DS27

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:30

He is testing a Nascar tomorrow


http://www.motogpmat...d_up_of_re.html


He doesn't need to do that - he's not been that bad ;)

#1222 GSiebert

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:46

I heard that but JL lead the whole Qatar race and Marc only lead half of Austin?

I can only see the number of fastest laps giving MM 1st place, he has two, and JLo none.

#1223 kevins

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:49

Any idea why Marquez is listed as 1st in the championship standings ? What separates him from Lorenzo ?


"Although he is now level on points with Lorenzo in the championship, Marquez holds the lead as he is the most recent Grand Prix winner."

http://www.motogp.co...uez race motogp

BTW was it an exciting race? I only have BBC1/2 so did not see it



#1224 BMW4life

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:51

It would be too easy if talent was measurable with numbers of poles and wins.


Agreed. With Lorenzo, though, it's very easy. His team mate was Rossi at the peak of his game.

#1225 BMW4life

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 13:19

In Lorenzo's first year in MotoGP he finished 4th in the championship with 190 points, His team mate won with 373 points almost twice as many.
Not taking anything away from Lorenzo but I really don't think his first year is going to compare to Marquez's, providing he doesn't injure himself which after his 1st 2 races looks unlikely, he has ridden like an old hand, he doesn't look like a desperate rookie trying to prove himself.


So did Lorenzo, until Lorenzo lost his way a bit and started crashing trying to keep up. Marquez said he nearly crashed a few times yesterday because the front didn't quite work the way he wanted. The point is he has an advantage over Pedrosa at the moment, but if he loses form and Pedrosa improves, there's every likelihood that he may overstep the boundary a few times, and if he's unfortunate, he'll end up with torn ligaments, fractures, like Jorge did.

Lorenzo proved himself very early on... Vale knew it, hence why he tried to force him out of the team, hence the wall in the garage. Fortunately, Yamaha wasn't looking at the final points tally.

#1226 Kaiser

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 14:58

Yamaha needs to bring a seamless gearbox soon. I reckon they're losing 2-3 tenths per lap alone.


Yeah, and Ducati will never win as long as they stick to the 90° v4.

#1227 DS27

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:02

"Although he is now level on points with Lorenzo in the championship, Marquez holds the lead as he is the most recent Grand Prix winner."

http://www.motogp.co...uez race motogp


That would be daft IMO. If two riders get the exact same lap time in a qually session, the higher position goes to the rider who got it first. Following that thinking, the rider who got the win first should get the nod. Not that any of this will matter of course.

#1228 Atreiu

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:12

Yamaha were fine without the seamless gearbox at Qatar.

#1229 GSiebert

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 15:24

Yeah, and Ducati will never win as long as they stick to the 90° v4.

You do know that Honda uses the same architecture right ? Not sure if sarcasm or not. :blush:

#1230 Tarzaan

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 17:25

In Lorenzo's first year in MotoGP he finished 4th in the championship with 190 points, His team mate won with 373 points almost twice as many.
Not taking anything away from Lorenzo but I really don't think his first year is going to compare to Marquez's, providing he doesn't injure himself which after his 1st 2 races looks unlikely, he has ridden like an old hand, he doesn't look like a desperate rookie trying to prove himself.


Imho Lorenzo was on Michelin, Rossi on Bridge...


BTW I miss Casey very...

Edited by Tarzaan, 22 April 2013 - 17:27.


#1231 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 17:32

The manner of Marquez' win was what was most impressive. Together with his team, the Spaniard elected to run the harder rear tire, holding station when everyone else (except for fellow Honda rider Stefan Bradl) chose the softer of the two options. After overshooting the start, he slotted in behind his Repsol Honda teammate - a rider in his 8th season of MotoGP - evaluated how wear was affecting his rear tire, then pushed hard to pass Pedrosa in a strong and gutsy move through turns 5 and 6. He then nursed a front tire that had developed a minor problem home to take his maiden win in MotoGP, and take two of Spencer's records, both of which had stood since 1982. His win was not just a matter of talent, but also of great maturity, and of having the backing of arguably the strongest crew in the paddock.


http://m.motomatters...d_up_of_re.html


#1232 Risil

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 17:43

You do know that Honda uses the same architecture right ? Not sure if sarcasm or not. :blush:


Risil's rules for bb success #1: Assume the other poster is as smart as you are.

#1233 Andy35

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 18:17

Agreed. With Lorenzo, though, it's very easy. His team mate was Rossi at the peak of his game.


Not true at all. By that time the bikes came emasculated with traction control so Rossi lost one of his weapons, ie the throttle. Remove traction control tomorrow and lets see who the real men are.

I can assure you a lot of the riders will be doing massive highsides. True Marques is youngest ever rider to win, but in the old days it was a bigger jump from 250cc to 500cc just down to animal of the bigger class.

Now the top class is a tamed beast so people can jump up to it easily. Now it's just learning the tyres. It should not be like that, it should be learning the engine.

Andy



#1234 Risil

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 18:21

I can assure you a lot of the riders will be doing massive highsides. True Marques is youngest ever rider to win, but in the old days it was a bigger jump from 250cc to 500cc just down to animal of the bigger class.


If only we could return to those halcyon days when a 250 pro like Biaggi had to spend, oooh, zero races learning how to handle the half-litres. :stoned:

Edited by Risil, 22 April 2013 - 18:22.


#1235 GSiebert

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 18:48

The manner of Marquez' win was what was most impressive. Together with his team, the Spaniard elected to run the harder rear tire, holding station when everyone else (except for fellow Honda rider Stefan Bradl) chose the softer of the two options. After overshooting the start, he slotted in behind his Repsol Honda teammate - a rider in his 8th season of MotoGP - evaluated how wear was affecting his rear tire, then pushed hard to pass Pedrosa in a strong and gutsy move through turns 5 and 6. He then nursed a front tire that had developed a minor problem home to take his maiden win in MotoGP, and take two of Spencer's records, both of which had stood since 1982. His win was not just a matter of talent, but also of great maturity, and of having the backing of arguably the strongest crew in the paddock.

http://m.motomatters...d_up_of_re.html

I like how people, and more worryinlgy journos, tend to forget the riders/drivers actually had a career before going to the top class and tell "WOW he's so mature, he's racing like an old fox".
He sat back to judge his rivals ? That's nice, he must have been doing that since he's 10 and that's how he won 80% of his Moto2 races.

Edited by GSiebert, 22 April 2013 - 18:50.


#1236 sopa

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 19:26

I do not wish that pain on anybody.


I think wishing to see Marc on Ducati is out of sheer interest if he could do anything remotely similar to Stoner there, e.g fight for wins, podiums. If their riding styles are similar.

#1237 nosecone

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 19:51

BTW was it an exciting race? I only have BBC1/2 so did not see it

The two Honda dominated while JL tried to keep up a small gap. Pedrosa was as usual the leader after the first turn and MM was on position three. MM easily passed Bradl, who also fall back behind Cal Crutchlow. The speed of Crutchlow was amazing because he was a lot faster than Rossi was. Then, I'd say at half time, MM passed Pedrosa and pulled away, but for same laps Pedrosa could keep the gap constant. And in this order they finished, even though Lorenz closed the gap to the Hondas in the last laps. Crutchlov finished 4th, Bradl 5th and Rossi finished at 6th position
A few nice battles furhter down the order but apart from that a usual MotoGP race.

Edited by nosecone, 22 April 2013 - 19:53.


#1238 Arn

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 19:55

If only we could return to those halcyon days when a 250 pro like Biaggi had to spend, oooh, zero races learning how to handle the half-litres. :stoned:

Yeah, but Biaggi only had to beat Doohan on his factory Honda on the easy Suzuka circuit. No wonder he got pole and won the race :lol:

Edited by Arn, 22 April 2013 - 20:00.


#1239 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 21:29

MM's ride rescued what would have been a dull, dull race, shame as the support classes were pretty decent.

Talking of excitement, it was a pleasure to watch the European Speedway GP from Bydgoszcz, Poland on Eurosport Saturday, a splendid evening's entertainment. Whether you're a fan or a speedway sceptic, try and catch one of the re-runs, you won't be disappointed.

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#1240 lbennie

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 23:31

That would be daft IMO. If two riders get the exact same lap time in a qually session, the higher position goes to the rider who got it first. Following that thinking, the rider who got the win first should get the nod. Not that any of this will matter of course.



That is because track conditions generally improve the longer a session wears on. Same logic can't be applied to individual races though.


#1241 hotstickyslick

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:03

Not true at all. By that time the bikes came emasculated with traction control so Rossi lost one of his weapons, ie the throttle. Remove traction control tomorrow and lets see who the real men are.

I can assure you a lot of the riders will be doing massive highsides. True Marques is youngest ever rider to win, but in the old days it was a bigger jump from 250cc to 500cc just down to animal of the bigger class.

Now the top class is a tamed beast so people can jump up to it easily. Now it's just learning the tyres. It should not be like that, it should be learning the engine.

Andy

This old chestnut again. I really don't see how you can come to such conclusions. All of the aliens use less traction control than the other riders, Stoner did especially, which was why he was the only rider to be able to squeeze any success left out of the Ducati bikes he rode. Rossi said so himself that the Ducati needed to be ridden like a 500, yet we didn't see Rossi ride anything like Stoner did by steering with the rear. Rossi's main weapon has always been the front end, ie corner entry and late braking, and with the Ducati he could not use that advantage, but unlike Stoner he couldn't use the rear of the bike to compensate for the weakness in the front. I think it dawned on Rossi the amount of risk it took to ride the Duke to the limit, and by returning to Yamaha he pretty much conceded he was not willing to take the risk.

If anything I'd say the current bikes are more difficult to ride than the 500s, and I say this as a person who is all for 500s returning.

I do think the rose-tinted spectacles need to be taken off to have a clear perspective.

Edited by hotstickyslick, 23 April 2013 - 01:10.


#1242 Atreiu

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:42

I think that the skills required to truly master these Bridgestone tyres have been quite underrated lately. It's not so easy as to turn TC all the way up and wring it.

#1243 BMW4life

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:01

Remove traction control tomorrow and lets see who the real men are.


Oh no! No need for such draconian measures. Just open your eyes... So easy, even a caveman could do it :rotfl:

#1244 Reinmuster

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:22

Yamaha were fine without the seamless gearbox at Qatar.


And they are nowhere near the front at Austin.




#1245 Obi Offiah

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:40

And they are nowhere near the front at Austin.

Until the last lap with a backmarker, Lorenzo was just three seconds or so off the lead which is nowhere near as large a gap as I expected from practice etc. Jorge mentioned that he needed just a couple of tenths to challenge the Repsol Honda's. They were not as dominant as he was in Qatar.

#1246 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:53

Aragon WSB, WSS & STK image gallery:

http://www.motorkari...gonu-24665.html

http://www.motorkari...ejdy-24679.html

http://www.motorkari...gonu-24714.html

Edited by Tarzaan, 23 April 2013 - 09:00.


#1247 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:55

Valentino Rossi lapped quick enough to be in the top half of the NASCAR Nationwide Series field as he tried Kyle Busch's Toyota stock car in a promotional event on Monday

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107011

#1248 Youichi

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:01

Valentino Rossi lapped quick enough to be in the top half of the NASCAR Nationwide Series field as he tried Kyle Busch's Toyota stock car in a promotional event on Monday

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107011


Posted Image

#1249 Atreiu

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 14:28

Nice. Any videos?

#1250 Atreiu

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 14:39

And they are nowhere near the front at Austin.


Different circuits, different characteristics, different bikes being favoured; which is actually good for racing.
HRC wouldn't stand a chance if the M1 had the same grunt the RC213V has. Look at the numbers:

Lorenzo beat Marquez by +6.201 at Qatar.
Marquez beat Lorenzo by +3.381 at Austin.

So, if there was anyone who was nowhere close to the win at a given race, it wasn't Yamaha at Austin.

If I had to guess, I'd say things will ebb and flow between Yamaha and Honda for a while. Jerez should suit the M1, and Le Mans, Honda. And then Mugello.
Hopefully Rossi and Pedrosa will grab some wins to be sure to keep the championship closer and more exciting.