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2013 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB


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#1951 GSiebert

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:26

at the moment Rossi is missing that tenth to be in the same league as Dani. Jorge and Marquez. He is still ahead of the group with Dovi and Cal though.

It's more like 3-4 tenths to be honest. And I believe he's ahead of Dovi because Ducati, and ahead of Cal because Factory Yamaha.

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#1952 dhill39

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:50

What do you guys think of Dani complaining about Mark using is data.

#1953 jrg19

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 13:06

Dani is being naive if he didn't think Honda would use his set up data when Marc was having a bad weekend, could be some fireworks later in the season if they are head to head for the Championship.

#1954 GSiebert

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 13:10

I don't think Dani complained about it, he just mentioned it.

#1955 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 15:59

You forgetting something, marketing wise even with Rossi finishing 3rd is more marketable than Crutchlow finishing 2nd. They have Lorenzo winning and Cal isn't the youngster to be groomed to fill his shoes when he retires/doesn't cut it/moves on, they probably seeing Pol as that rider.

I suspect Cal is going to get to choose between Suzuki and Hayden's ride. Either has the potential to make or break his career. As good as he is, to be brutally honest he is not a 1st tier rider, I doubt he would even beat Rossi if they were team mates, at the moment Rossi is missing that tenth to be in the same league as Dani. Jorge and Marquez. He is still ahead of the group with Dovi and Cal though.

Sorry, but I disagree. Cal is just as marketable, being Britain's only truly competitive rider in MGP since god knows when, while Rossi is no longer seen as the second coming by the new generation of muppets hanging over the fences. Times change and Rossi is yesterdays news.
I also must take issue with your claim that Cal isn't a first tier rider. How can you make that claim when he's never had the opportuntity to compete against the top factory boys on equal terms? He's done more on a satelite machine than anyone I can think of in recent times, as well as contending for poles in qualifying which must be considered as punching way above his weight.
If, by your standards, he's expected to beat them with his present set up in order to be considered top tier, then you are setting the bar a dash high IMO. Remember, he's lying fourth in the title race, ahead of the supposedly GOAT on a full works backed machine. How does that relate to anything other than top tier?

#1956 carbonfibre

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 17:16

On another note, Biaggi is testing the pramac Ducati this week at Mugello for two days. I bet just for fun but still good to see the roman emperor on a MotoGp bike again.

#1957 sushantf1

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 17:52

Why rossi is struggling on Factory Yamaha and Bradl is struggling on Factory Spec Honda?

#1958 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 19:09

Why rossi is struggling on Factory Yamaha and Bradl is struggling on Factory Spec Honda?

I'd say because Rossi is over the hill, and Bradl is overrated. Just my opinion though.

#1959 montoyasminion

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 19:37

Sorry, but I disagree. Cal is just as marketable, being Britain's only truly competitive rider in MGP since god knows when, while Rossi is no longer seen as the second coming by the new generation of muppets hanging over the fences. Times change and Rossi is yesterdays news.
I also must take issue with your claim that Cal isn't a first tier rider. How can you make that claim when he's never had the opportuntity to compete against the top factory boys on equal terms? He's done more on a satelite machine than anyone I can think of in recent times, as well as contending for poles in qualifying which must be considered as punching way above his weight.
If, by your standards, he's expected to beat them with his present set up in order to be considered top tier, then you are setting the bar a dash high IMO. Remember, he's lying fourth in the title race, ahead of the supposedly GOAT on a full works backed machine. How does that relate to anything other than top tier?

Spies was doing it in his rookie season. Maybe Cal doesn't want a factory Yamaha ride, look how well that turned out for Ben.

Someone mentioned Aleix riding the Ducati, no he didn't set the world on fire, but by 2010 he was more competitive than his more experienced teammate Kallio. I remember being highly impressed with Kallio on a Pramac bike in early 2009... so we really have no way of knowing how well Aleix would do on Honda or Yamaha.

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#1960 sneaker91

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 19:50

Look at their histories, Pol is the "star", still the youngest GP points scorer, Aleix is the journeyman. He has taken to the ART CRT machine like it was made for him, he did nothing on the MotoGP Ducati, he wasn't even meant to be the number 1 rider at Aspar CRT, that was meant to be RdP.


Sucks that he had to start out with the Duc. I really feel for Alex, he has been outstanding this year. He should be on a satellite at the very least. Wishful thinking, maybe Aprillia could put a bit more effort behind him.

Funny if he follows RdP to Suzuki.

Pol is struggling this year, big turnaround from last year. Hopefully he can turn his fortunes around soon.

Too many good riders not enough good bikes or manufacturers.

Honda n Yamahas dominance has to be broken up somehow.

#1961 Jamelon

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 21:39

Sorry, but I disagree. Cal is just as marketable, being Britain's only truly competitive rider in MGP since god knows when, while Rossi is no longer seen as the second coming by the new generation of muppets hanging over the fences. Times change and Rossi is yesterdays news.


Britain? You need to be marketable in Spain to be anyone in this sport :lol: .

Cal comes across a bit rougher than ideal for corporate PR, but if results are good enough nothing will stop him, e.g. Stoner.

I also must take issue with your claim that Cal isn't a first tier rider. How can you make that claim when he's never had the opportuntity to compete against the top factory boys on equal terms?


Cal isn't a first tier rider yet because he hasn't done enough to earn that opportunity. He has potential but also extremely tough opposition. It's unfortunate that only 4 bikes can win races. I wonder how much faster is the factory Yamaha vs the Tech3, there might be less difference than we like to think.

#1962 hotstickyslick

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 23:12

If we compare Ben's 2010 and 2011 seasons, as far as points go you find absolutely no difference despite Ben being on factory machinery in 2011. There isn't as much difference as there may seem.

#1963 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:02

That doesn't account for injuries to faster riders, injuries to Ben and the canceled round at Malaysia. At a glance it appears that his points per race average was a bit higher on the factory bike.

#1964 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:34

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#1965 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:30

Britain? You need to be marketable in Spain to be anyone in this sport :lol:

.
Your comment makes no sense. The market is worldwide, and certainly not restricted to Spain. The old passport excuse is just that, an excuse. How was Stoner marketable in Spain, for example? How was Rossi marketable in Spain? They hated the guy at one point when he was beating up on Gibernau.

Cal comes across a bit rougher than ideal for corporate PR, but if results are good enough nothing will stop him, e.g. Stoner.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Since when is standing up for yourself and straight talk considered "rough"?
Kimi Rikonnen does it all the time and he is the most loved driver on the F1 grid. It's called, having a bit of character.

IN MY OPINION, Cal isn't a first tier rider yet because he hasn't done enough to earn that opportunity. He has potential but also extremely tough opposition. It's unfortunate that only 4 bikes can win races. I wonder how much faster is the factory Yamaha vs the Tech3, there might be less difference than we like to think.

There, I fixed it for you.

#1966 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:37

If we compare Ben's 2010 and 2011 seasons, as far as points go you find absolutely no difference despite Ben being on factory machinery in 2011. There isn't as much difference as there may seem.

What are you suggesting? That the factory bikes and the satellite bikes are identical, and that being an official factory rider is not an advantage? You gained this incredible insight by comparing Ben's 2011 and 2011 seasons? Wow. Just wow. What else can I say?

Edited by SgtPepperoni, 06 June 2013 - 08:38.


#1967 Jamelon

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 15:05

Your comment makes no sense. The market is worldwide, and certainly not restricted to Spain. The old passport excuse is just that, an excuse. How was Stoner marketable in Spain, for example? How was Rossi marketable in Spain? They hated the guy at one point when he was beating up on Gibernau.


I was only joking of course, but Rossi is a globally marketable celebrity for both his character and his spectacular performances (until 2010 at least). Cal is not, of course, in the future who knows. I've been to a few GPs, including one in Spain in Barcelona 2012, and there were LOTS of local Rossi supporters, as much as in Donington if not more. Considering the calibre of Spanish riders and that this was in his 2nd Ducati year that pretty much sums it up. I doubt Gibernau ever had that kind of support there regardless of his passport, he was clearly a lesser rider in a better bike.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Since when is standing up for yourself and straight talk considered "rough"?
Kimi Rikonnen does it all the time and he is the most loved driver on the F1 grid. It's called, having a bit of character.


He's English you know, in England your accent and manners will put you in a position of the social scale where your appearance and wallet can't (unlike say the US). Kimi has a kind of natural coolness, it's not comparable.

All of this is my opinion of course, needless to say. Even the "facts" are opinions as we make a choice of which ones to mention/ignore, just look at the press.





#1968 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 15:43

I was only joking of course.....

Sorry, I missed the sarcasim. :blush:

#1969 carbonfibre

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 17:53

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Ah such a nice sight, i wish he was still riding but all good things come to a end. But still this is nice and i hope he does well this test. :)

#1970 GSiebert

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 07:17

New WSBK rules for 2014 and beyond :
http://www.worldsbk....2014-rules.html

Price caps and limited number of engines.

#1971 Tonka

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 07:47

New WSBK rules for 2014 and beyond :
http://www.worldsbk....2014-rules.html

Price caps and limited number of engines.



More fiddling with the rules to suit Honda ? The economies of scale mean they can produce a bike cheaper than other manufacturers. Not that it matters too much, as none of the bikes on the grid are anything like *production* bikes, which I understood were the basis of the formula.

What is the difference between Superbike and Supersport ? Why is there a difference ?



#1972 GSiebert

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:12

Superbike and Supersport are not the same category of machines.

Supersport : for bikes up to 600cc (4 cyclinders), 675cc (3 cylinders) or 750cc (2 cylinders)
Superbike : for bikes up to 1000cc (4 cylinders) or 1200cc (2 cylinders)

#1973 Tonka

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:55

Superbike and Supersport are not the same category of machines.

Supersport : for bikes up to 600cc (4 cyclinders), 675cc (3 cylinders) or 750cc (2 cylinders)
Superbike : for bikes up to 1000cc (4 cylinders) or 1200cc (2 cylinders)



Opps - my mistake - I meant superbike/supersport & superstock 1000/600. If the classes are based on road bikes - why are there 2 classes of each capacity?



#1974 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 22:36

Typically Superstock is closer to production than a Superbike but I'm ignorant as to how much these days in WSBK. Over here Superstock was pretty limited in terms of engine and chassis mods. I'm guessing that they're still running OEM fork tubes, stock swingarm and stock chassis. Probably fewer electronic aids, if not by rules then simply due to cost.

The idea is to give a stepping stone to Superbike. Badovini is an example of a successful graduate and it's very common for guys to make that step up at the regional level. Do away with them and you only have BSB, IDM, CIV, AMA etc. to feed WSBK. I suppose the argument could be made that this would work just fine, though.

#1975 ChiliFan

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 00:08

Typically Superstock is closer to production than a Superbike but I'm ignorant as to how much these days in WSBK. Over here Superstock was pretty limited in terms of engine and chassis mods. I'm guessing that they're still running OEM fork tubes, stock swingarm and stock chassis. Probably fewer electronic aids, if not by rules then simply due to cost.


The Supersport and Superstock classes also use treaded tyres instead of slicks.

As you mentioned, Superstock is meant to be a stepping stone to WSS/WSBK. Superstock classes have a maximum age limit of 26.


#1976 GSiebert

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:23

Poor Laverty :(

#1977 GSiebert

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:45

Great first race, 0.007s between Melandri and Guinters on the line!

#1978 GSiebert

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 13:08

Holy crap the WSS race was incredible :eek: :lol:

#1979 carbonfibre

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 13:33

Yes too bad Van de Mark was out of the podium he came back so fast and then had to deal with all the crazy guys in front, like when kenan dropped dead in the middle of the track. Still he his showing some great stuff this year great to see a dutchman do so well.

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#1980 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 17:00

Supersport was epic

#1981 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:49

Supersport was epic

Indeed. Another fantastic ride from Sam Lowes. His racecraft has come on in leaps and bounds this year.
Sofuloglu's (sp) face at the end was a picture. :|

#1982 GSiebert

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:38

Despite grabbing a podium in race 2 Rea looked really pissed in the press conference, after yet another DNF for electrical problem. I don't think he'll stay at Honda for another year.

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#1983 PokePoke

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:18

WSS was very good, but epic? Compare to Assen 2008 WSS (from start to finish) any other race on this planet should not callet epic (beside BSB finale in 2011). Pit, Rea, Jones (RIP) and Lascorz gave us one of the most amazing race in history.

#1984 Rob

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:21

Despite grabbing a podium in race 2 Rea looked really pissed in the press conference, after yet another DNF for electrical problem. I don't think he'll stay at Honda for another year.

It turned out that the DNF was down to human error. A clip wasn't secured properly and it worked itself loose, falling into a butterfly valve.


#1985 dhill39

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:53

Despite grabbing a podium in race 2 Rea looked really pissed in the press conference, after yet another DNF for electrical problem. I don't think he'll stay at Honda for another year.

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I think he's trying to stay loyal to Honda,but he should have left that team a long time ago, they have been bad for awhile now.

#1986 Tarzaan

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:57

Talmácsi Gábor's leg was broken by the blowing engine :S


BTW good races yesterday (but feel sorry for Laverty & Rea and the other DNF riders)


#1987 GSiebert

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 14:54

Honda's production racer was only 0.3s slower than the RCV at Motegi, despite being 7mph down on top speed.

#1988 Risil

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 21:08

Honda's production racer was only 0.3s slower than the RCV at Motegi, despite being 7mph down on top speed.


Interesting. I expect the gap would be bigger with some better riders able to make use of all that top-end power. Should get a few more riders up to the competitive end of the grid next year at least.

#1989 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:28

Rossi jokes at chance of repeating 2009 pass
"If Jorge waits for me, yes!" - Valentino Rossi.

Can't wait for Monday to see the Suzuki run against the other bikes and there is something to be measured against.

#1990 GSiebert

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:30

Yamaha could be testing the seamless gearbox as well.

#1991 jrg19

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:53

How close should we expect Suzuki to be?

#1992 Rob

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:24

How close should we expect Suzuki to be?

Depends on how far along the development programme is I guess. The engine ought to be pretty good. I think they'll be around the same laptime as the top CRT bikes.

#1993 GSiebert

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:09

Depends on the rider you put on it as well. After De Puniet tested the 800cc he said Stoner would have been champion on that bike :lol: But it surely wasn't related to the fact he wanted the ride in case Suzuki stayed in MotoGP.

Edited by GSiebert, 14 June 2013 - 12:22.


#1994 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 16:56

Rossi jokes at chance of repeating 2009 pass
"If Jorge waits for me, yes!" - Valentino Rossi.

Can't wait for Monday to see the Suzuki run against the other bikes and there is something to be measured against.

Rossi fastest in FP2. Mmmmm :cool:


#1995 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 17:38

Rossi fastest in FP2. Mmmmm :cool:

Hopefully, but some think that he is practising qualifying.

#1996 carbonfibre

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 18:53

I would never rule out Rossi and i wouldnt be surprised at all if he manages to take a win this year. And sure it's nice he is in front but it's only practise. The last couple of gp's have shown he isn't able to qualify at the top end and in the race he is lacking the pace of the top guys as well.

If he get's it all right and the others are slacking a bit he might be able to do it, that's how i see it.

#1997 SgtPepperoni

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 19:00

I would never rule out Rossi and i wouldnt be surprised at all if he manages to take a win this year. And sure it's nice he is in front but it's only practise. The last couple of gp's have shown he isn't able to qualify at the top end and in the race he is lacking the pace of the top guys as well.

If he get's it all right and the others are slacking a bit he might be able to do it, that's how i see it.

Nah, sorry. Vale is a spent force. There isn´t anything left in the tank. He might stick in the odd good lap, but it won't last. Times are a changing. I'd be surprised if he qualifies in the top 4.

#1998 Ellios

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:23

Marquez achieves 61° lean angle during FP3 Grand Prix of Catalunya

* Marquez getting closer to Casey Stoner's best lap 1'41.186 - may not match that time, but must be favorite for pole position today

Edited by Ellios, 15 June 2013 - 11:55.


#1999 SteF1an

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:08

FP3:
1. Marc Marquez ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 41.853s
2. Nicky Hayden USA Ducati Team (GP13) 1m 41.916s
3. Dani Pedrosa ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 41.987s
4. Valentino Rossi ITA Yamaha Factory Racing (YZR-M1) 1m 42.009s
5. Cal Crutchlow GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1) 1m 42.064s
6. Jorge Lorenzo ESP Yamaha Factory Racing (YZR-M1) 1m 42.166s
7. Stefan Bradl GER LCR Honda MotoGP (RC213V) 1m 42.258s
8. Andrea Dovizioso ITA Ducati Team (GP13) 1m 42.345s
9. Alvaro Bautista ESP Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RC213V) 1m 42.582s
10. Aleix Espargaro ESP Power Electronics Aspar (ART CRT) 1m 42.795s
11. Bradley Smith GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1) 1m 42.957s
12. Michele Pirro ITA Ignite Pramac Racing (GP13) 1m 42.970s
13. Andrea Iannone ITA Energy T.I. Pramac Racing (GP13) 1m 43.106s
14. Randy De Puniet FRA Power Electronics Aspar (ART CRT) 1m 43.260s
15. Hector Barbera ESP Avintia Blusens (FTR-Kawasaki CRT)* 1m 43.652s
16. Colin Edwards USA NGM Forward Racing (FTR-Kawasaki CRT)* 1m 43.942s
17. Danilo Petrucci ITA Came IodaRacing Project (Suter-BMW CRT)* 1m 44.167s
18. Karel Abraham CZE Cardion AB Motoracing (ART CRT) 1m 44.434s
19. Michael Laverty GBR Paul Bird Motorsport (PBM-ART CRT)* 1m 45.136s
20. Claudio Corti ITA NGM Forward Racing (FTR-Kawasaki CRT)* 1m 45.252s
21. Hiroshi Aoyama JPN Avintia Blusens (FTR-Kawasaki CRT)* 1m 45.407s
22. Yonny Hernandez COL Paul Bird Motorsport (ART CRT) 1m 45.612s
23. Bryan Staring AUS Go&Fun Honda Gresini (FTR-Honda CRT) 1m 45.686s
24. Lukas Pesek CZE Came IodaRacing Project (Suter-BMW CRT)* 1m 46.037s

Hayden :up:

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#2000 Ellios

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:54

Loving this MotoGP qualifying format!

C Stoners gone from the top of fastest lap time taken by D Pedrosa 1:40.893!

C Crutchlow lead Yamaha! great stuff!