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2013 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB


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#3201 Arn

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:18

If he's already driving in the limit what is there to improve? Some people don't seem to understand that. It's like if two teammates are so good that they are very close to the limit, and then suddenly someone asks why one of them is not 0.5sec ahead. That's not possible.

But who knows how close or far away they are from the limit? It's very rare that someone get that perfect lap where they don't think they could have gone any faster, and even then there is probably still room for slight improvements and that is not even considering improvements in setup.

 

I think the way Stoner trashes eryeone at Philip Island every year, shows that they are not that near to the limit as you might think. It is just that Stoner somehow can get much closer to the limit at Philip Island, where as they are all pretty similar everywhere else. The other logical conclusion would be that everyone else just can't get as close to the limit at Philip island compared to every other track, which seems strange.

 

The natural order of things is also that eventually the current benchmark will always be surpassed by someone younger and faster from the next generation.



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#3202 Risil

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 13:16

Great to see Tommy Aquino following PJ Jacobsen to success in the BSB paddock. :up:

 

Will be interesting to see how Cadwell's attendance compares to the British GP's next week too. Not bad for a field in Lincolnshire.


Edited by Risil, 26 August 2013 - 13:18.


#3203 Melbourne Park

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 13:34

I got that feeling as well. He realized that Marquez has something he hasn't.

 

MotoGP has simply been taken to a new level. When they enter corners nowadays they look almost out of control, legs hanging out and the rear sliding and bouncing. But they are in control, just much more on the limit than ever before. I think it was Rossi who started to put his leg out deliberately a few years ago, until then a leg out was "oh shit I missed my braking and are going to crash". You would never see anything like that in the Doohan days. I think that currently Marquez and Crutchlow is using the "out of control" style to the most extreme, but only Marquez manages to do it in the race, lap after lap.

Well, Doohan only had one leg, so, that technique wasn't even possible for him!  ;)

 

The biker's gear's changed too - its designed for road contact.

 

But the leg stuff is not what its about IMO ... its how far they get their bodies out from the bike in some of the corners. Stoner would get right out - and hence he could manhandle the Ducati. Marquez must be even more of that than Stoner IMO, because he's just 20 years old. Plus he seems to have the brain of a 28 year old, from the look of it. And he was tactical in Moto2. So ... IMO he's got the best techniquev IMO, and also it seems he has a huge tactical sense.

 

But: rookies rarely get onto the top bike. And perhaps lucky though that the bikes now have good front ends ... I think that helps any rookie ... but with Marquez, maybe even the unpredictable front ends we've seen over the last few seasons would not have bothered him. We'll never know ...


Edited by Melbourne Park, 26 August 2013 - 13:42.


#3204 BMW4life

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 13:43

I got that feeling as well. He realized that Marquez has something he hasn't.

 

Absolutely... He doesn't have a Honda. Any reasonable person would realize that too!



#3205 Tarzaan

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 17:30

That is terrible news

 

Yes, but I just read some minutes ago a fresh interview with Gabor. He said he consults with Dr. Costa in Brno, and it seem if hes muscle tissue can recover in the next 2-3 month, he might be able to racing again, but now he will not able to walk without cruthes, and off couse unable to change gears with his leg. But he was much more optimistic then in the article before.

 

(I don't remember any incident like this, when a blowing engine destroy a riders leg/cause a serius fractured bone broke). In the test seasion we (a lot of his supporters) hope this year would be his comeback season, but he crashed hard in Philip Island, and later this...)

 

http://translate.goo..._mulik_20130826



#3206 Risil

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 17:34

The closest comparison I can think of is Massa copping a suspension piece to the head at Hungary in 2009. Although thinking about it, I'm surprised it seems to happen as rarely as it does... :well:



#3207 chumma

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 18:49

Lorenzo, to me, rides like he always has something left on the table, very serene, smooth, doesn't look like he is ringing the neck of the thing. Contrast that to Marc where every corner im holding my breathe thinking he is a split second from a high side or low side, and they're worlds apart. Im not saying that IS the case but to me it looks like Lorenzo rides within himself a little and he doesn't go balls to the wall ala marquez, but then, maybe that is how the Yamaha has to be ridden to get the best out of it, but you just don't see Lorenzo sticking legs out, backing it in with the back end bouncing around everywhere on the absolute limit. Always smooth, always calm.  



#3208 chunder27

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 19:12

I think at least a small part of the problem with Marquez is that of all the current riders he is one who WOULD be falling off every week without all the aids they use now in my opinion. He is showing more so than Dani and Lorenzo that you can ride a GP bike on the edge grip all the time, just like Rossi did 12 years ago on a Honda too. Jorge and Dani still have a margin of risk left.

 

He crashed quite a bit in Moto2, lost a championships because of it remember, but in GP the safety net is actually bigger in some ways as if you get near the limit the tyres have so much grip they help you, and the electronics (along with the worlds best engineers) have dialled it up to feel like a 600.

 

On a 500 or early GP bike he would have been off it every bend and this is why Rossi is struggling to cope I think. He thought 1000's would be back in his way, but they are just big 800's as all the tech and electronics was developed for them, Marquez isn't sliding the rear or doing anything flash, watch a WSS race and you will see that, they are just dialling in the bike to make it feel to him like a 600. No one else feels the need to do it and are they really all so wrong? Stoner was able to ride over the limit of electronics, tyres, everything. Marquez is not. But Casey couldn't do it everywhere and I think Marquez maybe can as its a different limit to what Stoner was on. I think Casey would have been quick on an NSR, an RCV pre TC. MArquez aswell, but I don't think he would adapt aswell to worn tyres as Casey.

 

He will grow out of it, and be even quicker which is what makes me sad, as though it's great now, imagine what you will all be saying in 2019 after he has won 5 on the trot.



#3209 dau

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 19:25

Marquez isn't sliding the rear, huh.

 



#3210 Risil

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 19:26

Lorenzo rides on the limit. No question.

 

Marquez's tendency to make little errors is interesting though. Received wisdom in the days of 2008-12 said ultra-precise and sterile was the only way to win. The likely entry of Espargaro and Redding -- also graduates of the glorified-yet-underpowered CBR600 class -- into MotoGP will give us a lot more to talk about.



#3211 Jamelon

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 20:42

Marquez looks on "the limit" because his tendency to slide the rear, but he'll often be well under the traction limit of the front tyre (therefore being slower than he could be). Lorenzo may look smooth, but he may have both tyres on the limit nearly all the time, just about to crash unpredictably if he makes the tiniest error. Marquez's approach is interesting in that he deliberately loses traction of the rear tyre, which obviously aids cornering, but he knows everything else will be ok, as long as his control of the rear slide is good enough, which clearly is the case, so he may actually be more "in control" than people think. His style may give him a bigger margin for error, having a fuzzier boundary between being fast and crashing. Lorenzo needs to be more precise. Not sure what style would be faster on the same bike, but I think Marquez's gives him more options when fighting wheel-to-wheel.



#3212 EvanRainer

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:45

It also has to do with the characteristics of the bikes. Lorenzo being so smooth is not just style, it's how the Yamaha is and riding to its strengths.

 

You can see how the Yamaha can smoothly accelerate through and out of the corners while leaning when the Honda, while it may have better acceleration, needs to be picked up.



#3213 ApexMouse

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:46

I didnt realize all of you had access to these guys Telemetry. 

 



#3214 spacekid

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:47

I think at least a small part of the problem with Marquez is that of all the current riders he is one who WOULD be falling off every week without all the aids they use now in my opinion. He is showing more so than Dani and Lorenzo that you can ride a GP bike on the edge grip all the time, just like Rossi did 12 years ago on a Honda too. Jorge and Dani still have a margin of risk left.

 

He crashed quite a bit in Moto2, lost a championships because of it remember, but in GP the safety net is actually bigger in some ways as if you get near the limit the tyres have so much grip they help you, and the electronics (along with the worlds best engineers) have dialled it up to feel like a 600.

 

On a 500 or early GP bike he would have been off it every bend and this is why Rossi is struggling to cope I think. He thought 1000's would be back in his way, but they are just big 800's as all the tech and electronics was developed for them, Marquez isn't sliding the rear or doing anything flash, watch a WSS race and you will see that, they are just dialling in the bike to make it feel to him like a 600. No one else feels the need to do it and are they really all so wrong? Stoner was able to ride over the limit of electronics, tyres, everything. Marquez is not. But Casey couldn't do it everywhere and I think Marquez maybe can as its a different limit to what Stoner was on. I think Casey would have been quick on an NSR, an RCV pre TC. MArquez aswell, but I don't think he would adapt aswell to worn tyres as Casey.

 

He will grow out of it, and be even quicker which is what makes me sad, as though it's great now, imagine what you will all be saying in 2019 after he has won 5 on the trot.

 

If Marquez is such a rubbish rider who can only stay on the bike because of electronic aids, how come he is staying on the bike and making it go fast while others still high side and low side every race? Or is it just the Honda that is a magic bike, and Dani can't ride?


Edited by spacekid, 26 August 2013 - 21:47.


#3215 chunder27

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 22:03

You must be from space if you think I said he was rubbish kid, read between the lines.

 

Stoner didn't crash much either on a Honda and Dani hardly crashes at all just when he does he is porcelain, that Honda is a pretty safe bike! NO aids can stop you losing the front, and conditions usually conspire to a highside, the margins are not as narrow as you think in acceleration mode.

 

Every rider out there slides the rear, what I mean is doing it properly, Rainey or Doohan style with no TC, modern stuff is not the same this is all limited and programmed.

 

They all use aids to stay on the bike, it starts itself, stops itself wheelying, runs like a 2 stroke into the bends to stop it locking the rear, cuts out the fuel every millisecond to make sure its all not wasted, uses gyro and GPS to know where it is on track and give enough power in every gear to allow a small slide.

 

Seriously, if you think this is real racing you need to buy 1990/91.92.93 GP vids and watch some real talent.

 

This kid is riding a Moto2 bike with 260hp, that's all. Don't me wrong he is a winning machine, and will dominate for a decade, but frankly it excites me about as much as Vettel winning yesterday.



#3216 Arn

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 22:36

Marquez isn't sliding the rear, huh.

 

Wow, that is the longest most impressive slide by a MotoGP rookie ever. Another new record for MM93!  :lol:



#3217 Tonka

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 22:48

You must be from space if you think I said he was rubbish kid, read between the lines.

 

Stoner didn't crash much either on a Honda and Dani hardly crashes at all just when he does he is porcelain, that Honda is a pretty safe bike! NO aids can stop you losing the front, and conditions usually conspire to a highside, the margins are not as narrow as you think in acceleration mode.

 

Every rider out there slides the rear, what I mean is doing it properly, Rainey or Doohan style with no TC, modern stuff is not the same this is all limited and programmed.

 

They all use aids to stay on the bike, it starts itself, stops itself wheelying, runs like a 2 stroke into the bends to stop it locking the rear, cuts out the fuel every millisecond to make sure its all not wasted, uses gyro and GPS to know where it is on track and give enough power in every gear to allow a small slide.

 

Seriously, if you think this is real racing you need to buy 1990/91.92.93 GP vids and watch some real talent.

 

This kid is riding a Moto2 bike with 260hp, that's all. Don't me wrong he is a winning machine, and will dominate for a decade, but frankly it excites me about as much as Vettel winning yesterday.

 

For the last couple of days you've been telling us how easy it is for Marquez to run away with the next 5 MotoGP championships and how disinterested you are in watching MotoGP because of his domination.

 

Just to let you know, I do understand your point.  So how's about you stopped repeating it?



#3218 Arn

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 22:54

You must be from space if you think I said he was rubbish kid, read between the lines.

 

Stoner didn't crash much either on a Honda and Dani hardly crashes at all just when he does he is porcelain, that Honda is a pretty safe bike! NO aids can stop you losing the front, and conditions usually conspire to a highside, the margins are not as narrow as you think in acceleration mode.

 

Every rider out there slides the rear, what I mean is doing it properly, Rainey or Doohan style with no TC, modern stuff is not the same this is all limited and programmed.

 

They all use aids to stay on the bike, it starts itself, stops itself wheelying, runs like a 2 stroke into the bends to stop it locking the rear, cuts out the fuel every millisecond to make sure its all not wasted, uses gyro and GPS to know where it is on track and give enough power in every gear to allow a small slide.

 

Seriously, if you think this is real racing you need to buy 1990/91.92.93 GP vids and watch some real talent.

 

This kid is riding a Moto2 bike with 260hp, that's all. Don't me wrong he is a winning machine, and will dominate for a decade, but frankly it excites me about as much as Vettel winning yesterday.

Another one of those back in the old days there were real talent BS. These kids from today would trash anyone from the 90s and before on anything with 2 wheels.

 

You are just miserable because it is the wrong guy who is dominating. Just like with Vettel and his detractors.



#3219 Tonka

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 22:54

According to Bikesportnews, Rossi is asking Yamaha get to work improving his bike.  He wants the new gearbox and a lot more speed.

 

http://www.bikesport...ts&newsid=10217

 

MotoGP runs under some pretty odd rules nowadays.  Only x engines per year, no practice, etc.  I can't see how Yamaha can improve their engines once the season is this advanced.

Prototypes - I don't think so.



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#3220 Risil

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 23:17

Don't forget the control tyre rule



#3221 ViMaMo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 00:56

I think Dani is getting the results because he has the bike to his liking and its as fast as the Yamaha. Shame that Rossi is not fast on this year's Yamaha. Maybe the design direction will suit Rossi next year. 



#3222 Nova

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:20

I think Dani is getting the results because he has the bike to his liking and its as fast as the Yamaha. Shame that Rossi is not fast on this year's Yamaha. Maybe the design direction will suit Rossi next year. 

 

Not unless what is good for Lorenzo is also good for Rossi. Lorenzo dictates the direction of Yamaha now.



#3223 TimRTC

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:18

Another one of those back in the old days there were real talent BS. These kids from today would trash anyone from the 90s and before on anything with 2 wheels.

 

You are just miserable because it is the wrong guy who is dominating. Just like with Vettel and his detractors.

 

I don't necessarily agree...

 

Yes the riders today use all the tools available to them, so did the riders in the 1990s. Just because someone learns to use and exploit the technology available to them to the maximum does not mean that they would not have been able to do the same were they running two decades earlier or two decades into the future.

 

Motorsports evolves and changes dramatically over time as technology and rules change, it is geniuinely impossible to compare riders or drivers of different eras and it is totally meaningless to do so.


Edited by TimRTC, 27 August 2013 - 07:19.


#3224 Tonka

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:23

Another one of those back in the old days there were real talent BS. These kids from today would trash anyone from the 90s and before on anything with 2 wheels.

 

 

Care to explain how you've come to that conclusion, because there's plenty of proof that you're wrong.

 

Today's riders won't have the race craft.  They only race 20 times a year, in one class.  In previous generations they'd race 20 times a month, some riders racing 2 and 3 times at a GP, and at other events between GP's.  The riders would be as fit, if not fitter than todays.

 

Track surfaces are all but perfect now, using high grip compounds.  New tracks are built using constant radius corners.  Old tracks would be a mish-mash of whatever tarmac the owner could get, if they were even bothered to maintain the track.  Circuits were not designed from scratch until recently.  Many GP's were run on road coarses, tramlines and diesel oil were common hazards.

 

Bikes were less powerful - the Honda 297 - 6 only turned out 70 bhp, but their lap records still stand up in comparison to todays 250 bhp monsters, proving the bikes were being ridden to their limit, despite the fact the bikes were much less reliable than we're seeing now.

 

Take a top rider from any generation, right back to Stanley Woods and they'd have no problem screwing the arse of any current bike.



#3225 Jamelon

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:55

These kids from today would trash anyone from the 90s and before on anything with 2 wheels.

 

There's more money and resources now, the level of the feeder series is much higher than it was before. They're true athletes and technical masters from an earlier age. Also, more people practice the sport now so the best of now are statistically more likely to be better than the 80s/90s riders. So I think, the average current rider is faster. That said, riders of all times adapt to whatever machinery they have, so in the early 90s there was no electronics and mastering throttle control and sliding was essential and visually more spectacular, fine, but that doesn't mean current riders wouldn't be able to do that, it's just not the way their bikes need to be ridden. Likewise, if Schwantz was born 20 years later he would probably be much fitter and just as competitive with a different riding style, adapted to the current tools.

 

Some argue that rider-to-rider differences are progressively becoming less important than bike-to-bike differences, but I see no evidence to prove that, it's just that the time differences in absolute terms are perhaps gettings smaller, but in relative terms the rider is still as critical as it was before.



#3226 chunder27

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:18

There certainly isnt more money now!  There might be more R&D but the teams I would suggest in comparison money wise are no richer than Marlboro Roberts or Rothmans Honda, remember back then they were running 2 250's an d 3 NSR500's! or YZR's. Plus all the development. And Japanese factory teams. Honda and Yamaha are not spending anywhere near as much comparatively as they were.

 

Seems a few people do agree with me sorry to say detractors. Ask Rossi where he would like to have raced and he will always answer against Schwantz, Rainey, Doohan. I prefer to take my facts from someone that rode a 500, as he will tell you that bike was a million times harder to ride on the limit than a GP bike.

 

It might explain why he maybe isn't on it as much these days too, but I prefer to form my opinion and fact from a guy who has ridden both, and Marquez, Jorge, Dani haven't. Not their fault of course but Vale can offer an opinion based on total fact, you or they can't.

 

As for the current state of play, there is a clear solution, get rid of electronics, but that ain't ever going to happen so it is as it is and my reason for bitching about it is, the racing would be more spectacular and you could have an easier time seeing who was the best. It woukld open up more ability and more talent would show.

 

Riding now is about trust, trust in tyres and electronics, a tech guy is now worth more than a Kanemoto or Carruthers. But they in reality do the same thing, just one is learned from a course the other is learned from making things with your hands and using your noggin.



#3227 Arn

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:02

Care to explain how you've come to that conclusion, because there's plenty of proof that you're wrong.

 

Today's riders won't have the race craft.  They only race 20 times a year, in one class.  In previous generations they'd race 20 times a month, some riders racing 2 and 3 times at a GP, and at other events between GP's.  The riders would be as fit, if not fitter than todays.

 

Track surfaces are all but perfect now, using high grip compounds.  New tracks are built using constant radius corners.  Old tracks would be a mish-mash of whatever tarmac the owner could get, if they were even bothered to maintain the track.  Circuits were not designed from scratch until recently.  Many GP's were run on road coarses, tramlines and diesel oil were common hazards.

 

Bikes were less powerful - the Honda 297 - 6 only turned out 70 bhp, but their lap records still stand up in comparison to todays 250 bhp monsters, proving the bikes were being ridden to their limit, despite the fact the bikes were much less reliable than we're seeing now.

 

Take a top rider from any generation, right back to Stanley Woods and they'd have no problem screwing the arse of any current bike.

The short answer would be that professionalism in most sports today and especially motorsports compared to decades ago is at a much higher level. You have athletes on carefully planned diets and training schedules detailed down to the hour in their spare time. Contrast that to previous generations where some competitors had normal 9-17 jobs and raced in their spare time. Heck some could even find the time to build their own vehicle and race with it at a high level. Also todays Pedrosas, Lorenzos and Stoners started at the age of 4 and has been nurtured since then. 

 

As for competing in a many races? From Stoner's wikipage:

 

One feat he achieved that illustrates his passion and "need" for racing was at age twelve. Over one weekend he raced in 5 different categories in all 7 rounds of each capacity; a weekend consisting of 35 different races. Not only did he compete in all these categories and different engine capacities, the young Stoner went on to win 32 out of the 35 races. There were five Australian titles to be won that weekend, Stoner won all five.

 

Compare that to say Kenny Roberts, who first sat on a bike aged 11, but that was good enough, to totally dominate at the highest level when he entered GP racing.

 

It is only because you can't directly compare different generations that people are glorifying the heroes of the past.

 

In almost all sports where it is measurable, the level today is much higher than decades ago.


Edited by Arn, 27 August 2013 - 10:36.


#3228 DS27

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 18:10

What a great day of BSB at Cadwell Park - who says having a huge crowd doesn't make a difference. Great to see Tommy Bridewell finally get a good bike and run right at the front. Didn't realise until yesterday he lost his big brother in a racing accident at Mallory back in 2007, so no wonder he got choked up when being interviewed.

Seems like the rumour of Alex Lowes going to Moto GP with Paul Bird is a done deal. I'm sure him and Sam Lowes will end up in the same series one day.

#3229 TimRTC

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 21:47

What a great day of BSB at Cadwell Park - who says having a huge crowd doesn't make a difference. Great to see Tommy Bridewell finally get a good bike and run right at the front. Didn't realise until yesterday he lost his big brother in a racing accident at Mallory back in 2007, so no wonder he got choked up when being interviewed.

 

Agreed it was a superb day, particularly with weather as good as the May Oulton Park round.

 

Here is Tommy celebrating his podium finish like it was a race win:

 

9611522082_4b8f82f865.jpg
Alex Lowes and Tommy Bridewell celebrate their podium finishes by Tim R-T-C, on Flickr

 

The only thing that marred the day for me was the abysmal behaviour of some "fans" who were kicking off at security because of the queue to exit the site. 50,000 people at a tiny circuit in the middle of nowhere all trying to leave at the same time and they could not queue for 10 minutes without shouting at the people who were just trying to keep things moving. :( *****.



#3230 ehagar

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 22:38


 

The only thing that marred the day for me was the abysmal behaviour of some "fans" who were kicking off at security because of the queue to exit the site. 50,000 people at a tiny circuit in the middle of nowhere all trying to leave at the same time and they could not queue for 10 minutes without shouting at the people who were just trying to keep things moving. :( *****.

 

I stuck around for the MotoStar race at the end... turned out to be the best race of the weekend. Elbows and knees at each other (literally) down the start-finish straight till the end.

 

Took about an hour and a half to get out of the car park... if I were to have one criticism is that they really need to prevent queue jumping and allow rows to exit 10 at a time or something. As it is right now, the people at the back spend about an hour moving about 4-5 feet.  One thing I noticed here is that when Brits get behind a car they can become real bastards. 



#3231 BMW4life

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:57

I think at least a small part of the problem with Marquez is that of all the current riders he is one who WOULD be falling off every week without all the aids they use now in my opinion. He is showing more so than Dani and Lorenzo that you can ride a GP bike on the edge grip all the time, just like Rossi did 12 years ago on a Honda too. Jorge and Dani still have a margin of risk left.

 

He crashed quite a bit in Moto2, lost a championships because of it remember, but in GP the safety net is actually bigger in some ways as if you get near the limit the tyres have so much grip they help you, and the electronics (along with the worlds best engineers) have dialled it up to feel like a 600.

 

On a 500 or early GP bike he would have been off it every bend and this is why Rossi is struggling to cope I think. He thought 1000's would be back in his way, but they are just big 800's as all the tech and electronics was developed for them, Marquez isn't sliding the rear or doing anything flash, watch a WSS race and you will see that, they are just dialling in the bike to make it feel to him like a 600. No one else feels the need to do it and are they really all so wrong? Stoner was able to ride over the limit of electronics, tyres, everything. Marquez is not. But Casey couldn't do it everywhere and I think Marquez maybe can as its a different limit to what Stoner was on. I think Casey would have been quick on an NSR, an RCV pre TC. MArquez aswell, but I don't think he would adapt aswell to worn tyres as Casey.

 

He will grow out of it, and be even quicker which is what makes me sad, as though it's great now, imagine what you will all be saying in 2019 after he has won 5 on the trot.

 

Marquez only really looks out of shape under heavy braking; passing or trying to avoid being passed. Please inform us of which rider's aids he relies on under braking... :lol:  



#3232 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:35

Eh? Pretty shit discussion but you should probably realize that electronics play a pretty major role in (engine) braking and downshifting.



#3233 chumma

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:11

Ive got a better discussion...WSBK AT NURBURGRING THIS WEEKEND!.....as well as MotoGP  at Silverstone, can you say DOUBLE HEADER??? I CAN!



#3234 DS27

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 13:20

I wonder if the weather is going to be kind to Sykes and enable him to asert himself in the championship. Being Nurburgring, probably not.



#3235 TimRTC

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 17:15

Can Crutchlow break his Silverstone curse? Can anyone really stop Marquez? Probably not...

 

Who else is going to be at Silverstone? Don't forget they are using the national pitlane this time (although the full GP circuit).



#3236 chumma

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 18:34

Same as what wsbk did a month ago correct?

#3237 hotstickyslick

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 18:47

Can Crutchlow break his Silverstone curse? Can anyone really stop Marquez? Probably not...

 

Who else is going to be at Silverstone? Don't forget they are using the national pitlane this time (although the full GP circuit).

I think so. Looking at 2010 and last year Lorenzo and Yamaha were unstoppable at Silverstone in the dry, and the forecast for this weekend is for no rain at all. Apex speed is king around Silverstone. Wouldn't be surprised to see Crutchlow on the front row, or even on pole actually.



#3238 TimRTC

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 19:27

Same as what wsbk did a month ago correct?

 

Yes.

 

I think so. Looking at 2010 and last year Lorenzo and Yamaha were unstoppable at Silverstone in the dry, and the forecast for this weekend is for no rain at all. Apex speed is king around Silverstone. Wouldn't be surprised to see Crutchlow on the front row, or even on pole actually.

 

I'm sat at Silverstone Six, one of the few open grandstands left, so hoping for good weather!

 

Pole and qualifying in general seems rather unnecessary these days - so long as they are on the first three rows, Marquez, Lorezno and Pedrosa seem to be leading the pack into the opening corner (although in the National Pit formation, Copse is quite close, so the pole sitter might get to lead into Becketts before being overhauled...)



#3239 chumma

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:31

The Honda down the hanger straight though...And also the mini straight coming down to woodcote



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#3240 l8apex

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 18:04

I can't understand the complaining about Marquez!  He is a breath of fresh air and was greatly needed this year, otherwise it would have turned into the Pedrosa / Lorenzo championship at the front by themselves.

 

The last race was fantastic, he didn't go to the front immediately and check out, he had to work for it and he made some great moves that made me take a deep breath and wonder if he would crash... that was exciting!

 

The only thing that could be better is to have Stoner back, a slightly faster Yamaha and a Rossi that could ride at the front... then we would have 5 riders going at it... with the occasional satellite Yamaha or Honda thrown in now and then.



#3241 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 18:25

"@calcrutchlow: Saw @PolEspargaro tonight in my garage already trying the bike for size ! You still have to wait a few months yet …"

#3242 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 18:29

In case somebody missed it. Gresini confirmed a 2 year deal with Scott Redding to ride a Honda Production RCV. 



#3243 TimRTC

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 20:19

The Honda down the hanger straight though...And also the mini straight coming down to woodcote

 

Actually Wellington Straight is longer than Hangar Straight.



#3244 PokePoke

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 20:46

Hardly anyone writes about it - Pol takes all major sponsors together to MGP. Pons may not have budget for 2014season, because Rabat goes to MarkVDS. This is reason Pol is so hot topic in GP and his brother (who goes to Forwart Racing, where he will be ride on less prot. version of M1 - with factory engine, chassis and susp.) isn't.

 

Melandri and Laverty want to go back to the GP. But all prot. bikes are reserved, so they will fight for a place on production RC213V or second M1 in FR....but Hayden is still in game.



#3245 chumma

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:24

I thought Redding was meant to be getting a factory prototype or did I imagine this and he was always getting the production bike? Melandri back to MotoGP? Any substance to that?



#3246 DS27

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:30

It was always a production bike as far as I know. Fingers crossed Casey does a good job developing it!

 

I believe a prototype is on the cards for 2015, subject to performance clauses no doubt.


Edited by DS27, 30 August 2013 - 08:34.


#3247 TimRTC

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:37

Those Honda bikes certainly seem to have some good pace with a handful of pole starts, although Bradl and Bautista are rather inconsistent on them during the races. I think with Redding on one, they could easily challenge the Tech 3 Yamahas as the top satellite bikes.



#3248 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:46

Those Honda bikes certainly seem to have some good pace with a handful of pole starts, although Bradl and Bautista are rather inconsistent on them during the races. I think with Redding on one, they could easily challenge the Tech 3 Yamahas as the top satellite bikes.

Pity he wont be riding one



#3249 BMW4life

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:30

Eh? Pretty shit discussion but you should probably realize that electronics play a pretty major role in (engine) braking and downshifting.

Seeing that back-torque on the two strokes was considerably less than that on the 4 strokes, and that by the end of that era, the electronics were already playing a major role in downshifting, which gizmo is allowing him to do stuff now, that would have him flung off at every corner?

I specifically asked him the question in that way for a reason.

Edited by BMW4life, 30 August 2013 - 11:43.


#3250 Rob

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:33

Pity he wont be riding one

I think the customer Honda bike is going to be a seriously quick bit of kit. Not quick enough to win races but probably not that far back.