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Who do you want to win the WDC?


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Poll: Who do you want to win the WDC? (342 member(s) have cast votes)

Who do you want to win the WDC?

  1. Alonso (219 votes [64.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.04%

  2. Vettel (123 votes [35.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.96%

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#51 Madera

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:38

FA. Just because he is Mr. Cool! :cool:

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#52 Creepy

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:39

Well that's what he has said, I'm not making anything up, why does it matter what I say about Alonso anyway? Does it bother you that much really?

Yes you did since Alonso has not said such things in the time frame you pointed out.

And this thread isn't about what bothers me or not. It's about the driver you prefeer to win, only that since you brought along an argument to put down Alonso I felt the need to debate it. It's nothing personal, it's just a forum thing.

Edited by Creepy, 14 November 2012 - 04:40.


#53 ACooperF1

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:41

Yes you did since Alonso has not said such things in the time frame you pointed out.

And this thread isn't about what bothers me or not. It's about the driver you prefeer to win, only that since you brought along an argument to put down Alonso I felt the need to debate it. It's nothing personal.


I don't think Fernando reads this forum so no point fighting his battles for him. Maybe he hasn't said things like that from what you've seen, but from interviews I've watched he has. So we can agree to disagree and leave it.

#54 Hanzo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:25

Canada - equal
Valencia - won the race
Silverstone - equal
Germany - best car/won the race

And before that, in Spain he had a better car, in Monaco he had an equal car. So yes, yes he did.



Yes, never mind the 20 seconds gap Vettel had before the safety car. It is funny how Vettel fans twist the Valencia result all the time. On any other thread, Alonso only won because the safety car and because Vettel retired, hence Alonso the inheritor. Now, you are using the Valencia result in favor of "Alonso having equal or better car". Genius :drunk:


#55 seahawk

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:34

Vettel will win the WDC in Austin - just a gut feeling, as I strangely feel like I do not want to watch F1 at all next weekend.

#56 Wander

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:07

I think it's way more disrespectful this:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104175

He knows his car is better than the Ferrari, he's leading the championship... He has the WDC in his bag. So really, I don't understand why he needed to point out this when the WDC still has not finished. Perhaps the second paragraph of the article is the problem so he needs to announce that him winning would be as worthy as if Alonso won it? I mean, he may be right but that he needs to announce it like that is really arrogant.


What did you expect him to say? "Alonso deserves the championship more than me"??

#57 The Kanisteri

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:10

Vettel

#58 BackOnTop

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:22

Posted Image

Translation please, anyone.

Edited by BackOnTop, 14 November 2012 - 08:25.


#59 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:31

You add up all the negatives of Alonso ... personal behaviour, attitude to other drivers/teams, blackmail history, lack of competitive teammates, team orders when they were illegal, huge team budget compared to others (and funnelled into 1 driver/car), illegal tobacco sponsorship, etc etc...

He even invented the finger waving in the 2005/6 seasons that people give Vettel so much shit about.

It's a real enigma to me how fans and especially Brits will gloss over all those negatives yet lay it thick on SV. This season Alonso has been fantastic, but Vettel has had less crashes, more mechanical issues and time after time pulled off clinical overtaking moves when he really had to get ahead of someone, when we have seen Alonso, Webber, etc. repeatedly getting stuck behind someone for a whole stint.

Yes, Alonso was to blame for all his crashes... And when did Alonso get stuck behind for an entire stint in a faster car?

Anyway, I'm Ferrari all the way so I want Alonso to win.

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#60 BackOnTop

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:52

While some suggest Massa’s teammate Alonso is the more ‘deserving’ champion of 2012, the Brazilian thinks Red Bull’s Sebastian Vettel would also be a worthy winner.


Felipe Massa
“I think Fernando did an incredible job up to now, Sebastian as well, especially in the second part of the championship,” said Massa.

“So I think we are not talking about one guy who has many victories and the other one not. I think we are talking about two drivers, one of which will win and who we will say deserved it.”

#61 Sakae

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:41

While some suggest Massa’s teammate Alonso is the more ‘deserving’ champion of 2012, the Brazilian thinks Red Bull’s Sebastian Vettel would also be a worthy winner.


Felipe Massa
“I think Fernando did an incredible job up to now, Sebastian as well, especially in the second part of the championship,” said Massa.

“So I think we are not talking about one guy who has many victories and the other one not. I think we are talking about two drivers, one of which will win and who we will say deserved it.”

Massa could be many things to different people, but at least with this he has decency to be respectful to his rivals. I can't see any problem with him particular.

#62 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:43

Seems everybody has an opinion on the matter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk.../11/benson.html



#63 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:00

Alonso. Not because VET would deserve it less, but because it will break the balance of the forces and will introduce noise in the Matrix :)

#64 BigBadBless

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:15

Fernando Alonso or Adrian Newey? Hmm, think I'll go with Alonso.

#65 karlth

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:20

Alonso. Vettel has enjoyed the faster car for most of the season.

#66 Sakae

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:26

A lot of so called "analyses" simply declare RBR to be a faster car, but is that really a fact? Gut feeling I am afraid is sometimes misleading, especially if a rival driver can circle tracks in metronomic precision, unappreciated by most.

#67 H2H

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:35

Seems everybody has an opinion on the matter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk.../11/benson.html


Indeed and sometimes a funny one....

In Malaysia, he cost himself a fourth place by sweeping too early across the front of Narain Karthikeyan’s HRT while lapping it. There was a hint of frustration and a sense of entitlement about the move – as there was in his post-race comments in which he called Karthikeyan an “idiot”.


:lol:

Just one of the instances when you see biased Benson coming through.

Edited by H2H, 14 November 2012 - 10:37.


#68 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:40

A lot of so called "analyses" simply declare RBR to be a faster car, but is that really a fact? Gut feeling I am afraid is sometimes misleading, especially if a rival driver can circle tracks in metronomic precision, unappreciated by most.

Let me ask this then... Do you think Hamilton and Alonso are the type of drivers to qualify between 3 tenths and a second off pole consistently?

#69 H2H

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:42

Let me ask this then... Do you think Hamilton and Alonso are the type of drivers to qualify between 3 tenths and a second off pole consistently?


Hamilton certainly did not and enjoyed mostly the fastest car. McLaren as a team did certainly not deliver as well as Red Bull Racing and Ferrari. Race pace is a different story and Red Bull and especially Ferrari were more competitive there.

Edited by H2H, 14 November 2012 - 10:43.


#70 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:55

Hamilton certainly did not and enjoyed mostly the fastest car. McLaren as a team did certainly not deliver as well as Red Bull Racing and Ferrari. Race pace is a different story and Red Bull and especially Ferrari were more competitive there.

I was talking about since Singapore. When Red Bull became the class of the field...

I agree about the race pace but often Alonso has been to far back to do anything with it.

#71 Zava

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:56

So giving praise and admiting other team's strengths is arrogant. Amazing.

Don't forget Alonso said we are NOT ONLY FIGHTING VETTEL, we are also fighting Newey. That's not taking anything away from Vettel but admitting Newey's designs are being extremely competititve and hard to race against.

after abu dhabi:
Alonso is quoted by Switzerland's Blick: "When your competitor climbs from last place to the podium next to you, then it is clear that we are fighting against the best car."
giving credit to the opponent at its best, especially considering mclaren was the fastest car of the weekend.


#72 Atreiu

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:02

Hamilton followed by not Alonso.

#73 UPRC

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:13

Alonso, he deserves a third championship more than Vettel.


What he said. Alonso seems to have to work harder in a car that is clearly inferior to the Red Bull. Mad props to him for accomplishing what he's managed to do so far this year. :up:

#74 KiloWatt

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:15

Anyone but Vettel, pretty much. His face annoyes me. And his finger. And his face.

But yeah, both deserve it.

#75 joshb

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:22

Vettel, because it pi$$es a lot of people off, and it would be nice to see 3 in a row.
and because I support him!

#76 BorkoF2012

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:54

Alonso, of course.

#77 mattferg

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:22

Yes you did since Alonso has not said such things in the time frame you pointed out.

And this thread isn't about what bothers me or not. It's about the driver you prefeer to win, only that since you brought along an argument to put down Alonso I felt the need to debate it. It's nothing personal, it's just a forum thing.


Creepy, why do you start an argument in praise of Alonso and insulting Vettel fan whatever thread you're on?

I swear I've seen you accuse RBR of cheating, saying Newey is the only reason Vettel is winning/it's the car, Vettel doesn't deserve it etc. on the Vettel thread, the Alonso thread, the RB8 thread, the F2012 thread and a hell of a lot of others. Grow up.

#78 ACooperF1

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 16:53

Yes, never mind the 20 seconds gap Vettel had before the safety car. It is funny how Vettel fans twist the Valencia result all the time. On any other thread, Alonso only won because the safety car and because Vettel retired, hence Alonso the inheritor. Now, you are using the Valencia result in favor of "Alonso having equal or better car". Genius :drunk:


Not a Vettel fan, and I never said his car was equal or better I just said he won the race.
If I wanted to say he had an equal or better car I'd have said it, I didn't, I said he won the race, that's a fact.

#79 Skinnyguy

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 17:03

By the start of the season I wouldn´t give a shit about who wins if it was between these two, but now I want Vettel to win with all my soul. It would piss all the people trying to take credit away from him. I want to hear Lobato, I want to see Hamilton´s face, I want to listen what Alonso has to say.

But hey, if Alonso takes it, it will be well deserved too.

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#80 RedOne

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 19:36

I hope it's his English (a lot of us don't have English as mother tongue) but I fail to understand why he believes our problem is with him wanting Vettel to win instead of Alonso when we clearly pointed out what our problem was.

I really think this issue is slightly off-topic but since it was used "as an argument" to support either driver I felt the need to debate it...



Not sure if sarcasm, but in case it isn't, I don't understand why throwing such praise to a car designer is so disrespectful.

I think it's way more disrespectful this:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104175

He knows his car is better than the Ferrari, he's leading the championship... He has the WDC in his bag. So really, I don't understand why he needed to point out this when the WDC still has not finished. Perhaps the second paragraph of the article is the problem so he needs to announce that him winning would be as worthy as if Alonso won it? I mean, he may be right but that he needs to announce it like that is really arrogant.


It's just a classic case of people putting words into Alonso's mouth and using any means possible to make him the evil guy. It doesn't matter we know its BS anyway.


#81 choyothe

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 19:46

Vettel of course. Better driver, better person, more deserving.

#82 choyothe

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 19:50

Not sure if sarcasm, but in case it isn't, I don't understand why throwing such praise to a car designer is so disrespectful.

I think it's way more disrespectful this:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104175

He knows his car is better than the Ferrari, he's leading the championship... He has the WDC in his bag. So really, I don't understand why he needed to point out this when the WDC still has not finished. Perhaps the second paragraph of the article is the problem so he needs to announce that him winning would be as worthy as if Alonso won it? I mean, he may be right but that he needs to announce it like that is really arrogant.


:rotfl: This is just too good.

#83 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 19:50

Vettel of course. Better driver, better person, more deserving.


Do you know any of them?

#84 TurboF1

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:00

I think Alonso deserves the title over Vettel, especially considering the difference in machinery between the 2. But then, in my obviously biased opinion, I think Lewis has performed just as well as Fred from a driving standpoint and equally wouldve deserved the title, but poor reliability and poor teamwork has put paid to any chance of that happening. That said, from a fan of F1 in general, I'd much rather see Alonso get his 3rd crown... He's been there all year and thoroughly deserves it. Red Bull has done a great job maximizing their potential, not letting too many opportunities slip away and generally has performed as a top team should. I wouldn't begrudge Seb if he sealed the deal either, but I feel Fred has edged him this year, unquestionably.

#85 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:02

Alonso, because he's taken that car to places it should never have been on more than 1 occasion.

#86 choyothe

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:04

Do you know any of them?


Yes.

#87 ayali

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:05

Hmm difficult both were outstanding this season.
Exceptional drives of both men, never giving up and scoring max points whenever possible.

I'll enjoy either of them scoring a 3rd WDC :up:
Forced to choose I'll pick Fernando because of his team and how he lost it in 2010

Really looking forward to those 2 greats battling for the WDC




#88 Kingshark

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:07

Meh, Alonso being gifted one victory in Europe doesn't change the fact that he had to fight tooth and nail for his wins in Malaysia and Germany. On the other hand, Vettel was gifted the win in Singapore by Hamilton and gifted the 3 others by Red Bull's dominant car. The only win he's actually had to fight for was Bahrain. Alonso is more deserving.

#89 Jejking

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:11

Yes.

Pics or it didn't happen.

#90 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:14

Sean baby ( :p), just out of curiosity, how have you managed to keep posting/following the forum when Sandy had it's say where you live?

Street was slightly flooded, yard was a mess with small branches, but that was about the worst of it for us.

#91 swerved

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:30

Vettel, for many reasons, one being that i think he's done the best job with the minimum of fuss and drama, one of which is that i've found it extremely tedious reading about the other two heroes blowing smoke up each others arses, and another being that it might go some way to shutting up those who think he can't handle pressure, personally i think he handles it as well as any other driver, if not better than quite a few of them, Alonso gets a lot of praise for never giving up, and rightfully so, but i think thats an attribute Vettel also has in spades.

I think both Hamilton and Alonso have been extremely disingenuous about Vettel as the season has progressed, no surprise really as he's the greatest threat either of them face, but it would be great if he wins it, if only to rub their noses in it, statistically speaking.

#92 choyothe

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:31

Pics or it didn't happen.


This was the question:

Do you know any of them?


Not "Do you know any of them personally?"

I have watched, listened and read about Alonso in all aspects and points of his racing life for the last 8-9 years and done the same for Vettel in the last 5-6. During that time I have come to the definite conclusion that Sebastian Vettel is a much "better" person than Fernando Alonso, if one can quantify such thing.

Edited by choyothe, 14 November 2012 - 20:31.


#93 BetaVersion

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 20:49

Somebody famous say on the matter of the thread:

Sebastian Vettel still an immature F1 driver - Jacques Villeneuve
By Michele Lostia and Pablo Elizalde Wednesday, November 14th 2012, 10:35 GMT

Sebastian Vettel still needs to mature as a Formula 1 driver according to former world champion Jacques Villeneuve, who believes the German "reacts like a child".

The Canadian, who won the Formula 1 title in 1997 with Williams, believes Vettel's Ferrari rival Fernando Alonso is a stronger driver when it comes to dealing with adverse situations.

Villeneuve, however, reckons Vettel is nearly invincible when he can lead a race from the front.

"I have no doubts: Fernando Alonso is the best, that's why I root for him," Villeneuve told Autosprint magazine.

"Seb is super quick, but there is a difference with Fernando that emerges in case of an unfavourable situation.

"Alonso remains calm, cool, and rational, while Vettel most of times gets upset, angry, screams and flicks the middle finger. He reacts like a child.



#94 August

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 21:01

I'd dislike Ferrari winning WDC even more than RBR winning.

#95 EVO2

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 22:04

On sheer effort Alonso surely deserves the title more.

I can hardly believe myself saying it, though !

When it comes to the WCC it has to be Red Bull. On the basis of the car they produced, Ferrari definitely don't deserve it.

McLaren ruled themselves out on recent unreliability and dodgy pit work at the start of the year.

#96 Creepy

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 22:18

What did you expect him to say? "Alonso deserves the championship more than me"??


I just expected him to say nothing, as I said. It's pointless.

after abu dhabi:
Alonso is quoted by Switzerland's Blick: "When your competitor climbs from last place to the podium next to you, then it is clear that we are fighting against the best car."
giving credit to the opponent at its best, especially considering mclaren was the fastest car of the weekend.


He may be slightly wrong at times, but I don't see how what he said was a bad thing to Vettel.

Alonso also said in Italy that he had the fastest car but that he didn't take full potential of it. And in 2007 he also pointed out he had the fastest car. Alonso points out stuff about the car no matter if sometimes it favors him or it makes him look bad, because that isn't the point. And so the same for the rivals.

It has nothing to do with showing lack of respect for himself or his rivals.

Edited by Creepy, 14 November 2012 - 22:19.


#97 Tardis40

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 22:29

Gotta root for the underdog, although I'm happy to see either one take it.


#98 DaddyCool

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 22:54

In 2011 Vettel didn't deserve the title because he had a rocketship
In 2010 Vettel didn't deserve the title because Alonso was very unlucky to get stuck behind Petrov
In 2009 Button didn't deserve the title because he had an illegal car which was dominant
In 2008 Hamilton didn't deserve the title because he was just extremely lucky that Glock didn't make it till the end on those tyres
In 2007 Raikkonen didn't deserve the title because Hamilton was told to switch off his engine

...

Therefore, no matter the WDC outcome, the winner eventually will not deserve the title.

QED

#99 rijole1

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 22:58

My vote goes to Sebastian Vettel

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#100 Skinnyguy

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 23:03

He may be slightly wrong at times, but I don't see how what he said was a bad thing to Vettel.


Where have you been living the last 2´9 years? Under a rock?