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Gary Hartstein


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#51 Darth Sidious

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:36

Well, that doesn't paint the FIA in a good light, now does it.


Agreed. Thank you for this fascinating interview.

:up:

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#52 olliek88

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:57

Brilliant interview. Of course there are two side to every story but it very much sounds like JT has wanted him out for a while and looked for any excuse possible.

#53 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:48

I haven't had time to watch the whole interview, but it appears to be great.

The only problem I see is that *he's an anesthetist*. He's got more experience in the field than anyone else, but it would appear that he's not "Sid Watkins". I would think they would want to keep him on from that angle, as well as the angle that - as he says, and others have said here - it's not going to be easy to find good people that are going to want to run their life around the F1 circus.

So, I would presume this means they've got a world class surgeon contracted to do the entire F1 season. Otherwise, there has been a fundamental change in attitude towards safety I would surmise.

If it's based on his tweets - that's ridiculous and grounds for a lawsuit IMO.




#54 olliek88

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 20:57

If it's based on his tweets - that's ridiculous and grounds for a lawsuit IMO.


Unlikely, that's where the FIA have the advantage, he was on a 12 month rolling contract so every year they renewed it, last year they just never took up that option. He wasn't sacked or made redundant his contract of employment just expired.

#55 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 21:03

Thanks for posting the link to the interview, looking forward to getting a chance to watching it.

#56 bourbon

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 21:09

He made a great contribution and has a lot to be proud of. Now it is time to move forward and look to the future.

If you keep looking back, you'll never see what is right before your eyes.

#57 Disgrace

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 21:13

Okay?

#58 superdelphinus

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 21:13

Unlikely, that's where the FIA have the advantage, he was on a 12 month rolling contract so every year they renewed it, last year they just never took up that option. He wasn't sacked or made redundant his contract of employment just expired.


depending on the jurisdiction (though it's most likely European of some nature, so probably not relevant), it's not really that simple. generally fixed terms appointments are expected to be extended if they are for 12 months - you have to give written reasons if they are not. it's very unlikely he was engaged in an employer/ employee type way, on that basis

#59 superdelphinus

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 21:14

...but great interview - i'd love to meet him

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#60 packapoo

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 05:22

That was a fascinating interview; seems a very decent chap.

The insight imparted highlights why we have the present tyre debacle.

(And that El Presidente asserts a very insidious influence. Come back Max, all is forgiven.)

#61 olliek88

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:32

I noticed on his tweeter feed another story which he missed out from the interview, JT wanted him fired after Japan 2010 when Webber broke his shoulder blade (I think it was his shoulder blade) and Gary took care of him, on a completely privately/independent basis so it was nothing to do with the FIA etc but Todt was furious that Gary didn't tell the FIA's medical delegate, even though patient confidentiality applied.

I'm beginning to dislike Jean more and more as each day goes on at the moment.

#62 peroa

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:43

There is also the story on his twitter that the Ferrari seats couldn't be extracted with the driver in case of an accident at the end of last year.

I agree, it just reinforces my negative opinion of the FIA and particularly Jean Todt.

Edited by peroa, 19 May 2013 - 08:45.


#63 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:14

I noticed on his tweeter feed another story which he missed out from the interview, JT wanted him fired after Japan 2010 when Webber broke his shoulder blade (I think it was his shoulder blade) and Gary took care of him, on a completely privately/independent basis so it was nothing to do with the FIA etc but Todt was furious that Gary didn't tell the FIA's medical delegate, even though patient confidentiality applied.

I'm beginning to dislike Jean more and more as each day goes on at the moment.


I don't know that Jean is the 'bad guy' here. That seems like a conflict of interest on Harstein's part.

#64 Myrvold

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:10

I don't know that Jean is the 'bad guy' here. That seems like a conflict of interest on Harstein's part.


How? Medical guy, giving medical help/advice on a private basis. It's not like he have any actually way to influence the result. If is contract doesn't say that he cannot to anything privately, there shouldn't be any problems. If it was completely safe for Webber to drive, I cannot see the problem.

#65 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:22

But if he's treating him privately/confidentially we don't know what impact it has. I'm not saying Harstein covered anything up or gave substandard treatment but there could be a conflict, or at least the impression of one. What if he treats a driver privately and he has an injury he shouldn't be driving with? Would patient confidentiality prevent him from doing his proper job as the FIA/F1 doctor to approve/disqualify that driver?

#66 scheivlak

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:30

There is also the story on his twitter that the Ferrari seats couldn't be extracted with the driver in case of an accident at the end of last year.

I agree, it just reinforces my negative opinion of the FIA and particularly Jean Todt.

I think it's plain wrong to twitter something like that.
Adress it to the FIA.

Only if they won't take action it makes sense to make it public.
But in that case there are more appropriate ways than just twitter something around.....

#67 olliek88

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 14:30

I think it's plain wrong to twitter something like that.
Adress it to the FIA.

Only if they won't take action it makes sense to make it public.
But in that case there are more appropriate ways than just twitter something around.....


As i understand it he did, they did nothing about it.

Its not his problem now and he's no longer a FIA employee so its his prerogative to tweet it if he so wishes.

#68 scheivlak

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 14:39

As i understand it he did, they did nothing about it.

Its not his problem now and he's no longer a FIA employee so its his prerogative to tweet it if he so wishes.

I understood from peroa's post that he tweeted it while still being a FIA employee.

#69 peroa

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 15:21

I understood from peroa's post that he tweeted it while still being a FIA employee.

No, he tweeted it earlier this week.

Gary Hartstein ‏@former_f1doc 13 May
You know that F1 cars are equipped with extricable seats. This allows the driver to be removed from his car IN HIS SEAT, minimising movement

Gary Hartstein ‏@former_f1doc 13 May
A Sid Watkins inspired advance, may I add. Anyway, to show how lax the supervision of this critical component of thw safety package is...

Gary Hartstein ‏@former_f1doc 13 May
...was informed on Thursday of the GP of India that mods during the season rendered both Ferrari seats impossible to remove from the chassis

Gary Hartstein ‏@former_f1doc 13 May
This situation was not corrected by Brazil. No idea (obviously) if he's on top of the situation by now.

Gary Hartstein ‏@former_f1doc 13 May
Sorry Fernando and Felipe, but this wasn't on the list of what I was allowed to do!

Edited by peroa, 19 May 2013 - 15:24.


#70 scheivlak

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 15:29

No, he tweeted it earlier this week.

OK, my bad!

#71 FLB

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 16:20

How? Medical guy, giving medical help/advice on a private basis. It's not like he have any actually way to influence the result. If is contract doesn't say that he cannot to anything privately, there shouldn't be any problems. If it was completely safe for Webber to drive, I cannot see the problem.

Harstein's mentor was Sid Watkins, who also sometimes saw drivers on a private basis. Ayrton Senna consulted with Pr. Watkins when he suffered from Bell's Palsy in 1984.

#72 Talisman

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 16:33

The only problem I see is that *he's an anesthetist*. He's got more experience in the field than anyone else, but it would appear that he's not "Sid Watkins". I would think they would want to keep him on from that angle, as well as the angle that - as he says, and others have said here - it's not going to be easy to find good people that are going to want to run their life around the F1 circus.

So, I would presume this means they've got a world class surgeon contracted to do the entire F1 season.


Actually if you want one type of doctor to be first on scene it isn't a surgeon but an anaesthetist/intensivist which is what Hartstein is. Surgeons are pretty useless outside a hospital setting and you want the driver to be stabilised at the scene so they are fit for transport to a proper medical facility for definitive treatment which is what anaesthetists/intensivists have the right skill mix for.

From Hartstein's account it would appear that any replacement would be appointed on political grounds, not due to their experience or skills but then again we only have his side of the story.

Very interesting interview about the political machinations at work at the FIA though Hartstein comes across as being rather naive.

#73 Talisman

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 16:47

How? Medical guy, giving medical help/advice on a private basis. It's not like he have any actually way to influence the result. If is contract doesn't say that he cannot to anything privately, there shouldn't be any problems. If it was completely safe for Webber to drive, I cannot see the problem.


This is a legal minefield and he was taking a big risk seeing a patient privately who he had come to meet through his employment with the fia. Most medical contracts regulate and highly limit the freedom of a physician to see a patient in another facility or organisation. It is the kind of transgression an employer will overlook if they like you and use to get rid of you if they don't.

In my own practice to avoid this type of situation I never transfer patients between different private healthcare providers even if the patient requests it. If they insist they can see someone else even if I work at the organisation they want their care transferred to