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US GP: Pirelli defends conservative selection of tyres for Austin


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#1 f1fastestlap

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:57

When asked by AUTOSPORT what the downside of bringing soft tyres to the race would have been, Hembery said: "It would be a few more pitstops.

"But you have to bear in mind that we are at the business end of the season and we have to make decisions based on that as well, and we're making the choices two months prior to getting to these races.

"If there was anything we were unsure about, it was about continuing to be aggressive at the business end of the season, because we didn't want the media coming here and asking us if we were deciding the championship."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104313


Nice, so they only decide the championship earlier in the season, now that we are at the end of the season, tyres aren't going to decide nothing, infact, tyres aren't even on the cars anymore... :rolleyes:


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#2 Snic

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:04

Sounds fair enough..

#3 korzeniow

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:04

i can't stand this Hembery recently? Too much BS :mad:

#4 boldhakka

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:10

:down: He shouldn't be talking about the championship at all.

Tyres should be selected based on technical factors such as the asphalt, temperature, length of the pit-stop and other matters. The tyre selection should be optimized so that cars can finish the race in the quickest possible time including the pit stops.

Pirelli is a component supplier for crying out loud. Bring the best component for the task at hand. Do this over the whole season. Simple.

Edited by boldhakka, 17 November 2012 - 13:10.


#5 toxicfusion

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:28

They sort of are affecting the championship by removing any influence mechanical grip has and allowing the aero to rule supreme.

#6 Sith

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:30

What a Fckn crock of shit!!!! This race is gona be so boring due to the tyres!!! Being a new venue, & being back in the U.S.. This really needed to be an exciting race, with lots of overtaking!!! That would set the platform for the success of this event in the coming years.. They should've at least brought the med-soft combo.. Instead, we're gona get another dull 1 stop race!!!

#7 Number62

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:32

:down: He shouldn't be talking about the championship at all.

Tyres should be selected based on technical factors such as the asphalt, temperature, length of the pit-stop and other matters. The tyre selection should be optimized so that cars can finish the race in the quickest possible time including the pit stops.

Pirelli is a component supplier for crying out loud. Bring the best component for the task at hand. Do this over the whole season. Simple.


Hear hear. We don't have to listen to the man who supplies the petrol banging on all the time, so why the Tyres?

#8 Lukin

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:32

An unknown track, with hard to predict weather conditions for the first race in one of the most important markets to F1 in 6 years (where they ballsed it up 7 years ago) on the second last round of a great championship.

And you blame them for being a bit conservative?

... Fair shake of the sauce bottle!

#9 bub

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:36

Is there a reason they have to make the tyre choice 2 months in advance?
Could they/did they test the tyres on this track?

#10 ayali

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:43

Is there a reason they have to make the tyre choice 2 months in advance?
Could they/did they test the tyres on this track?

Do you think tyres just fall out of thin air and rain down on whatever track they are needed??
Batches of tyres for a race need to be produced and shipped to the venue.

Fair play of Pirelli to play it conservative :up:

Edited by ayali, 17 November 2012 - 13:52.


#11 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:46

An unknown track, with hard to predict weather conditions for the first race in one of the most important markets to F1 in 6 years (where they ballsed it up 7 years ago) on the second last round of a great championship.

And you blame them for being a bit conservative?

... Fair shake of the sauce bottle!

Yea, seems reasonable enough to me.

#12 Risil

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:48

Hmm. I suppose they made conservative tyre choices at the end of last year because there wasn't a close championship?

#13 nordschleife

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:49

Perhaps his choice of the term "business end" reveals an overriding concern that the nuance of engineering tires that degrade and wear according to the entertainment factor (no small achievement) will be lost on the doofus US media and will be seen as Pirelli's shortcoming.

#14 bub

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:59

Do you think tyres just fall out of thin air and rain down on whatever track they are needed??
Batches of tyres for a race need to be produced and shipped to the venue.

Fair play of Pirelli to play it conservative :lol:


Didn't think it would need that much time. I thought they could test out the different compounds with their test car before hand (depending on how long the track's been ready) and see which one's would be best suited. Obviously not the case though.

#15 olliek88

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:01

i can't stand this Hembery recently? Too much BS :mad:


Seriously? An unknown circuit, with a pretty quick layout with temps that are usually far higher than they are right now (The average for Austin in October is 28ºC), how can you blame Pirelli for being conservative? They had to make this decision two months ago so they could get the tyres manufactured and shipped to the circuit in time before the surface was laid.

Can you imagine if they turned up with softer tyres and they couldn't have coped with the high speed first sector! If that had of happened, in the US of all places, it would of been a HUGE PR disaster for Pirelli, they had no choice but to play it safe.

#16 Risil

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:02

Perhaps his choice of the term "business end" reveals an overriding concern that the nuance of engineering tires that degrade and wear according to the entertainment factor (no small achievement) will be lost on the doofus US media and will be seen as Pirelli's shortcoming.


:lol:

#17 D.M.N.

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:04

Seriously? An unknown circuit, with a pretty quick layout with temps that are usually far higher than they are right now (The average for Austin in October is 28ºC), how can you blame Pirelli for being conservative? They had to make this decision two months ago so they could get the tyres manufactured and shipped to the circuit in time before the surface was laid.

Can you imagine if they turned up with softer tyres and they couldn't have coped with the high speed first sector! If that had of happened, in the US of all places, it would of been a HUGE PR disaster for Pirelli, they had no choice but to play it safe.


Even worse if there had been a high speed failure (unlikely, but possible) in sector 1. Then everyone would be saying "why didn't Pirelli go conservative?"

So they can't win, really. First year, new track, no data, logic tells you to bring your most durable tyres to cover all possibilities.

#18 boldhakka

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:06

Seriously? An unknown circuit, with a pretty quick layout with temps that are usually far higher than they are right now (The average for Austin in October is 28ºC), how can you blame Pirelli for being conservative? They had to make this decision two months ago so they could get the tyres manufactured and shipped to the circuit in time before the surface was laid.


He should just say that then, why is he talking about the championship?

I personally think the tyre choices for this weekend are fine, but I don't like his philosophy and approach to the season and Formula 1 as a whole.

#19 dau

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:34

We haven't even seen qualifying yet. How about you guys wait for a bit longer before starting this inevitable complain-a-thon about tyres being too aggressive, too conservative, favouring certain teams, not favouring your team or Hembery having a stupid face.

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#20 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:39

This time it is understandable that they went conservative because it was a new track. Other times less so.

#21 pingu666

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:58

why do media people act like theres a "chase" system in f1?


#22 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 15:07

An unknown track, with hard to predict weather conditions for the first race in one of the most important markets to F1 in 6 years (where they ballsed it up 7 years ago) on the second last round of a great championship.

And you blame them for being a bit conservative?

... Fair shake of the sauce bottle!

Well put. I agree.

#23 Clatter

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 15:09

Sounds fair enough..


Sounds like a poor excuse to me. Being conservative is just as much an aid to deciding the championship as going aggressive would be.

#24 Clatter

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 15:15

Seriously? An unknown circuit, with a pretty quick layout with temps that are usually far higher than they are right now (The average for Austin in October is 28ºC), how can you blame Pirelli for being conservative? They had to make this decision two months ago so they could get the tyres manufactured and shipped to the circuit in time before the surface was laid.

Can you imagine if they turned up with softer tyres and they couldn't have coped with the high speed first sector! If that had of happened, in the US of all places, it would of been a HUGE PR disaster for Pirelli, they had no choice but to play it safe.


I don't for one minute believe that would have happened, I can however understand about being conservative due to the unknown factors, but as soon as they start talking about the media and deciding the championship then I think the decision was made not for this reason.




#25 djparky

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:10

wow- alot of folk moaned earlier in the year about tyres going off etc- you may well get your wish for another Bridgestone era race- I'nm quite sure if they#d bought tyres that dropped off quickly they would moan about that as well- I don't think Pirelli can win

#26 SpaMaster

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:11

Non-sense! Irrespective of what they say, they do like to influence the championship. At least stick to one particular stance.

#27 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:03

Hear hear. We don't have to listen to the man who supplies the petrol banging on all the time, so why the Tyres?


The tyres are the only parts of the car connecting it to the asphalt. Everything the car designers do ultimately is aimed at making that connection as strong as possible. People who refuse to have information about the tyre have a faulty understanding of racing. End of.

That said, I briefly thought the pinnacle of motorsport should bring all 4 choices to such a new track. But then I realized the shitstorm that would break out if RBR was better on, say, soft + medium, and Ferrari better on another choice, like medium+hard. I don't think Pirelli had another option really. It's not ideal, but if F1 was run professionally they would have had laid the asphalt in time and hired a bunch of sports cars & drivers to let them run there for a week.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 17 November 2012 - 17:08.


#28 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:08

He should just say that then, why is he talking about the championship?

I personally think the tyre choices for this weekend are fine, but I don't like his philosophy and approach to the season and Formula 1 as a whole.


He is talking about the championship because the media would ask them about it and the unreasonable faction of this very BB would be all over them if they got it in their minds that somehow Pirelli had undue influence.

Also you don't know the questions Autosport asked, they are not quoted. All you got to see was his answers.

#29 toxicfusion

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:17

It doesn't help that the choices for the last two races were conservative to.

Last year they took soft and hard to India, said it was conservative (as the hard tyre lasted most of the race and could have done it all over again) said they'd look to change for next year but roll on 2012 at India and they bought soft and hard.

Creating lots of pitstops at the start of year is apparently fine and doesn't hurt anyone (other than McLaren ;)) but carrying that through the season is wrong because it could have an effect.

Edited by toxicfusion, 17 November 2012 - 17:18.


#30 prty

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:21

Sounds fair enough..


It doesn't. If they were not conservative during the whole year as it has been the case, and now they are, the tyre variable changes, therefore interfering with the championship.

#31 RedOne

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:29

So are they saying indirectly they were influencing the championship before this whole conservative thing or what? Tyres are the same for everyone right? So why now change your stance? It's a strange statement, someone must be pulling the strings.

Edited by RedOne, 17 November 2012 - 17:30.


#32 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:41

So are they saying indirectly they were influencing the championship before this whole conservative thing or what? Tyres are the same for everyone right? So why now change your stance? It's a strange statement, someone must be pulling the strings.


It's not so hard to understand if you read what Hembery said. In the end, it's nothing more sinister than the asphalt cover being done too late (and being super slippery), and unusually low temperatures.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 17 November 2012 - 17:41.


#33 OSX

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:49

Even Hembry himself knows he's talking complete nonsense in the name of PR. Sometimes though it's better PR to admit a mistake rather than try to spin it and someone should tell Hembry that.

#34 BigCHrome

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:51

What a clown.

#35 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 17:51

It's not so hard to understand if you read what Hembery said. In the end, it's nothing more sinister than the asphalt cover being done too late (and being super slippery), and unusually low temperatures.

He just shouldn't have said anything. He's in a lose-lose situation with most fans.

#36 Nonesuch

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 18:21

Of course they're not deciding the championship, but putting aside for a moment the dubious nature of the commentary provided by this Hembry throughout the season, Pirelli is definitely influencing the championship. The teams are all forced to use the stuff they come up with, and it's always going to work better for some than others. By not allowing the teams to run the tyres best suited to their car, they are (strongly) influencing the championship at every session and race.

Anyway, it's a bit silly to blame Pirelli for these shenanigans. The teams wanted this situation with one supplier and horrible tyres; it's their own fault.

#37 natureboy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:29

Is there a rule that says that teams can only use 2 types of dry tyres during a GP weekend?

Couldn't Pirelli take all their tyres to a GP and make a decision there, especially a new circuit?

Edited by natureboy, 17 November 2012 - 19:35.


#38 Clatter

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:35

Is there a rule that says that teams can only use 2 sets of tyres during a GP weekend?

Couldn't Pirelli take all their tyres to a GP and make a decision there, especially a new circuit?


Yes.


#39 Youichi

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:45

Couldn't Pirelli take all their tyres to a GP and make a decision there, especially a new circuit?


I´m firmly of the opinion that Pirelli should take all four types to each race, and let the teams decide which ones to use.



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#40 chrcol

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:12

I thought it was great.

Start of year tryes too soft, degradation screwing races up.

Now drivers need more skill to drive on cold tryes, so we see the most skilful drivers do better aka vettel and lewis, lots of sliding around etc. Also will be a low pitstop race where drivers can push without worrying about tryes falling apart. Way way better than soft tryes.

Instead of watching cars sit in garage for most of quali they stayed out.

Edited by chrcol, 17 November 2012 - 22:12.


#41 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:50

Is there a rule that says that teams can only use 2 types of dry tyres during a GP weekend?

Couldn't Pirelli take all their tyres to a GP and make a decision there, especially a new circuit?


Yes there is a rule saying that, and put simply, cost will prohibit Pirelli from taking all their tyres to a GP.

#42 itsademo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:56

Seriously? An unknown circuit, with a pretty quick layout with temps that are usually far higher than they are right now (The average for Austin in October is 28ºC), how can you blame Pirelli for being conservative? They had to make this decision two months ago so they could get the tyres manufactured and shipped to the circuit in time before the surface was laid.

Can you imagine if they turned up with softer tyres and they couldn't have coped with the high speed first sector! If that had of happened, in the US of all places, it would of been a HUGE PR disaster for Pirelli, they had no choice but to play it safe.

too many people either wernt following F1 the last time it was in America or have problems with their memory.
No way Pirelli or F1 were going to risk another indy fiasco especially as the track was not even laid when they had to decide which tyres to make.

It amazes me just a few short moths ago we had people complaining the tyres only lasted a few laps now they are complaining about 1 stop races.
they do say you can please some of the people most of the time and most of the people some of the time but never all of the people all of the time.
Well autosport proves with F1 you never please some of the people any of the time.

Edited by itsademo, 17 November 2012 - 22:57.


#43 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:59

He just shouldn't have said anything. He's in a lose-lose situation with most fans.


That wouldn't change if he refused interviews with the press :wave:

#44 travbrad

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:52

Now drivers need more skill to drive on cold tryes, so we see the most skilful drivers do better aka vettel and lewis, lots of sliding around etc.


I think we have seen this season that the most skillful drivers do better no matter what tyres they are given. The drivers who are widely regarded as the best have been at or near the top this entire season, regardless of how soft/durable the tyres were.

Edited by travbrad, 17 November 2012 - 23:52.


#45 turssi

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:56

I´m firmly of the opinion that Pirelli should take all four types to each race, and let the teams decide which ones to use.


Could be fun if the teams could select one tire to run after the free practices are done.


#46 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:06

AMuS reporting that the new asphalt is bleeding oil, which is what makes it so slippery. Tilke saying that it's the same asphalt as in India and Korea, but drivers (PdlR, FA, SV) say they don't believe it, comparing it to Portimao. The oil and little running apart from F1 keep the track green, and Williams team manager Dickie Stanford is saying that they will be lucky if there is grip in 2013.

As I said earlier, it's the usual incompetency in F1. But I am sure someone will find a way to blame crappy asphalt on Hembery

#47 Risil

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:11

Nah, low-grip asphalt is part of the fun, like Philip Island.

#48 engel

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:18

Same thing happened in Korea, nobody remembers Maylander loosing the car before FP? Korea just got lucky, there was rain which masked the problem

Here's Tilke from 2010, just to refresh memories:
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/87545

Q. For Formula 1 fans who will turn on their television over the weekend to see the new Korean track – what sort of experience are they going to get?

HT: I think on Friday the track surface will be very, very slippery because it is brand new. That means you will probably see some spinning. And, it will not be easy to find the set-up for Saturday and Sunday because the track will change a lot. That means some drivers will make the wrong set-up choice, because you are going to have to second guess what is the right way to go.

Q. So it will be a little bit like Monaco where the track surface is changing all the time?

HT: It will be more extreme than that.

Q. There has been a lot of talk in the build-up to the weekend about the problems that could be caused by the asphalt being laid so late. Will that produce any problems in breaking up or rippling?

HT: No, it will not. The only problem it will cause – and to me that is not actually a problem – is in terms of grip. A lack of grip should not be a problem because we have the best drivers in the world here. Plus, it will be the same conditions for everybody. There will not a problem that the track will break up.

Q. Is it the oils in the asphalt that will make it slippery then?

HT: Not only the oils, but the bitumen chemicals in it. Normally with new asphalt over the first six months the chemicals on the top surface wear down to expose the stones – which is what produce the grip. Normally these stones are freely exposed on the surface, but here there is bitumen covering them. After some time that will be removed, the stones will be free and the track will have some grip. But that will not happen this weekend.

Q. So it could be a spectacular weekend then?

HT: Yes, especially at the beginning. After some practice the track will improve a lot, because they lay down their rubber, and that will produce some grip. But off the ideal line it will be very slippery – a big challenge for drivers.



#49 loki

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:21

Can you imagine if they turned up with softer tyres and they couldn't have coped with the high speed first sector! If that had of happened, in the US of all places, it would of been a HUGE PR disaster for Pirelli, they had no choice but to play it safe.


Some of the same people decrying the tire choice now would perhaps be decrying the choice if there were another Michelinesque scenario in Austin. It surely wouldn't have pleased those of us that remember what happened back in Indianapolis. It was a good call. The race will be fine.


#50 loki

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:29

AMuS reporting that the new asphalt is bleeding oil, which is what makes it so slippery. Tilke saying that it's the same asphalt as in India and Korea, but drivers (PdlR, FA, SV) say they don't believe it, comparing it to Portimao. The oil and little running apart from F1 keep the track green, and Williams team manager Dickie Stanford is saying that they will be lucky if there is grip in 2013.

As I said earlier, it's the usual incompetency in F1. But I am sure someone will find a way to blame crappy asphalt on Hembery


The oil seepage issue is normal when a track has a fresh surface. It can take a few seasons for it to get racy. The Tres Hombres ( ;-) ) on Speed were thinking that it would have been a good idea if there would have been time to have at least a club sports car race so it wasn't so green but I don't know how much that would have done. The fact its unseasonably cold in Austin isn't helping either.