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US GP: Pirelli defends conservative selection of tyres for Austin


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#51 baddog

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:30

I saw nothing about the surface that was wrong in any session so far. Drivers arent supposed to find it easy they are supposed to shut up and drive it.

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#52 BigCHrome

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:32

This wouldn't have been anything like Indy 2005 if they brought the medium and the soft.

It was a horrible choice and it DOES effect the championship as RB seems to be the only car that can get the required grip in the tires early on. Vettel will have a 4-5 sec lead by lap 3 as everyone else is struggling with useless tires while his ridiculous DF advantage lets him carry on.

#53 loki

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:41

This wouldn't have been anything like Indy 2005 if they brought the medium and the soft.

It was a horrible choice and it DOES effect the championship as RB seems to be the only car that can get the required grip in the tires early on. Vettel will have a 4-5 sec lead by lap 3 as everyone else is struggling with useless tires while his ridiculous DF advantage lets him carry on.


sounds to me like the other teams need to step up their programs so they can compete. This isn't like during the tire wars where the Bridgestones were engineered for the Ferarri. The tires are the same for everyone these days. Some teams have done a better job getting the most out of them. While sticky tires would get to temp quicker, I'm not convinced it would change the issue of the the track surface "seasoning" as we call it in circle track. There would also be a great deal more klag off line and that certainly isn't going to help the grip off line. Not that there is any grip there in the first place... :smoking:


#54 Sakae

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:44

Perhaps his choice of the term "business end" reveals an overriding concern that the nuance of engineering tires that degrade and wear according to the entertainment factor (no small achievement) will be lost on the doofus US media and will be seen as Pirelli's shortcoming.

Very much so. What I do not understand is why FOTA/FiA/FOM do not issue tire specs to the tire supplier for each race (say about four months in advance)? After all it's FOTA who has invested in various technical solutions, only to look inept due to new rubber. I find constant manipulation of tire-strategy by this supplier rather annoyng and hard to swallow.

Edited by Sakae, 18 November 2012 - 06:46.


#55 korzeniow

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:05

This wouldn't have been anything like Indy 2005 if they brought the medium and the soft.

It was a horrible choice and it DOES effect the championship as RB seems to be the only car that can get the required grip in the tires early on. Vettel will have a 4-5 sec lead by lap 3 as everyone else is struggling with useless tires while his ridiculous DF advantage lets him carry on.


This!

Not affecting the championship my ass :rolleyes:

#56 korzeniow

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:07

sounds to me like the other teams need to step up their programs so they can compete. This isn't like during the tire wars where the Bridgestones were engineered for the Ferarri. The tires are the same for everyone these days. Some teams have done a better job getting the most out of them. While sticky tires would get to temp quicker, I'm not convinced it would change the issue of the the track surface "seasoning" as we call it in circle track. There would also be a great deal more klag off line and that certainly isn't going to help the grip off line. Not that there is any grip there in the first place... :smoking:


It could change the picture as we clearly could see in quali.

RBR is the only team that can bring the tyres up to temperature quickly. When for the others is takes a lot of laps to do so. Just look at Hamilton Q3 time. If he could switch his tyres as quickly as Vettel then he would be a bigger threaat

#57 Peter Perfect

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:09

This wouldn't have been anything like Indy 2005 if they brought the medium and the soft.

It was a horrible choice and it DOES effect the championship as RB seems to be the only car that can get the required grip in the tires early on. Vettel will have a 4-5 sec lead by lap 3 as everyone else is struggling with useless tires while his ridiculous DF advantage lets him carry on.

Surely it's up to the other drivers to adapt their driving styles?

#58 BigCHrome

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:14

Surely it's up to the other drivers to adapt their driving styles?


It's not about the driver, it's about the car and the setup.

#59 Peter Perfect

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:16

It's not about the driver, it's about the car and the setup.


You might want to post that in the Hamilton-Button thread. There are some very vocal posters there who would disagree with you.

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#60 Henrik B

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:35

RBR is the only team that can bring the tyres up to temperature quickly. When for the others is takes a lot of laps to do so.


Traditionally, if you switch the tyres on early you suffer horrible degradation. If Red Bull has solved that problem, you can simply say that Red Bull are doing a much better job than the rest of the teams and leave Pirelli out of it.

#61 Craven Morehead

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:42

I really enjoyed Pirelli's more "aggressive" tire selection in the early part of the season. I don't relish watching another processional one stopper.

Edited by Craven Morehead, 18 November 2012 - 09:43.


#62 Jejking

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:54

I´m firmly of the opinion that Pirelli should take all four types to each race, and let the teams decide which ones to use.

Would be, cost-wise, a no-brainer... (for Pirelli :rolleyes: )

#63 Kelateboy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:55

I really enjoyed Pirelli's more "aggressive" tire selection in the early part of the season. I don't relish watching another processional one stopper.

But it will be a processional one stopper for the majority of the drivers.


#64 muramasa

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:54


all those talks about Austin's fresh track surface, but Suzuka circuit, 2009 its first half of the track surface was fresh, and 2012 the 2nd half the track was fresh surface but there never was issue.

#65 f1fastestlap

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:03

Pirelli IS manipulating the champioship.
At the beginning of the season we had some uncertainty about the outcome of the race which was great, teams had to think hard and adapt to the circumstances of multiple pitstops.
Now with more than half the season over Pirelli had the time to know which team is best with each tyre, and guess what, they changed their approach...
Coincidence?
Why on earth he had to say they don't want to influence the championship? What were they doing int the first half of the season? Not influencing the championship?



Circuit 2012 Option 2012 Prime 2011 Option 2011 Prime
Melbourne Soft Medium Soft Hard
Sepang Medium Hard Soft Hard
Shanghai Soft Medium Soft Hard
Bahrain Soft Medium No race No race
Catalunya Soft Hard Soft Hard
Monte-Carlo Super-soft Soft Super-soft Soft
Montreal Super-soft Soft Super-soft Soft
Valencia Soft Medium Soft Medium
Silverstone Soft Hard Soft Hard
Hockenheimring Soft Medium No race No race
Hungaroring Soft Medium Super Soft Soft
Spa-Francorchamps Medium Hard Soft Medium
Monza Medium Hard Soft Medium
Singapore Super Soft Soft Super Soft Soft
Suzuka Soft Hard Soft Medium
Korea Super Soft Soft Super soft Soft
Buddh Soft Hard Soft Hard
Abu Dhabi Soft Medium Soft Medium
Austin Medium Hard No race No race
Brazil Medium Hard Soft Medium


#66 muramasa

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:32

Pirelli IS manipulating the champioship.
At the beginning of the season we had some uncertainty about the outcome of the race which was great, teams had to think hard and adapt to the circumstances of multiple pitstops.
Now with more than half the season over Pirelli had the time to know which team is best with each tyre, and guess what, they changed their approach...
Coincidence?
Why on earth he had to say they don't want to influence the championship? What were they doing int the first half of the season? Not influencing the championship?

not sure.

If they had known beforehand that the Austin's track surface is this poor quality and slippery, they wouldve brought softer tyres.

About which team is best with each tyre, it's quite simple, that with softer and fragile tyres cars with high downforce tend to suffer coz there's more chance that high downforce bully and use up the tyres quick, while that gives cars with less downforce advantage in long run pace. last couple of races tyres got more durable which works in favor of RedBull which in itself is not so strange.

Not sure manipulating tho, coz first half of the season they overdone it abit and the race got bit too much of a gamble so they learnt from it. It now looks closer to "traditional" F1, but one's take on it, whether manipulating or coincide, good thing or bad thing, it's up to u i suppose.


#67 jk

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:43

The slippery surface is fun. I like watching the cars struggling for grip instead of being on rails.
But tires that do not warm up is a problem, Pirelli screwed up. But it is the same for everybody and the teams need to adapt.

Since RB is betting at generating heat, they have an advantage at this stage of the season with the cooler temps. In the summer with the higher temps, it was Ferrari who had the advantage. Teams needs to make the best out of the situation, and the tire selection is part of that.

#68 korzeniow

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:44

not sure.

If they had known beforehand that the Austin's track surface is this poor quality and slippery, they wouldve brought softer tyres.

About which team is best with each tyre, it's quite simple, that with softer and fragile tyres cars with high downforce tend to suffer coz there's more chance that high downforce bully and use up the tyres quick, while that gives cars with less downforce advantage in long run pace. last couple of races tyres got more durable which works in favor of RedBull which in itself is not so strange.


Didn't Tilke said Austin have the same asphalt type as Korea and India? Couldn't Hembrey simply ask him? It's not an excuse

Not sure manipulating tho, coz first half of the season they overdone it abit and the race got bit too much of a gamble so they learnt from it. It now looks closer to "traditional" F1, but one's take on it, whether manipulating or coincide, good thing or bad thing, it's up to u i suppose.


They should change their approach and introduce durable tyres, then bringing them to the half of the races

Edited by korzeniow, 18 November 2012 - 11:46.


#69 Clatter

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:59

I saw nothing about the surface that was wrong in any session so far. Drivers arent supposed to find it easy they are supposed to shut up and drive it.


I agree. They have it far too easy with every slight bump etc being ground down. So what if the track is a bit slippery and they have to use a bit of that driving skill that the best drivers in the world are supposed to have.


#70 ViMaMo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 13:08

I dont think brining a softer tyre would have helped. Hard was the way to go. Colder temp, smoother track, sliding around. Only thing is that RBR have enough downforce to offset the hard tyre-temp imbalance.

#71 muramasa

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 14:08


Kobayashi said sth along the lines of " the quality of asphalt is so inconsistent that it almost look as if manufacturing error or sth, there're many such places, quite astounding actually. For example, in the same corner, on the apex side it's so smooth with stones ground down too much that it's almost like concrete, whereas on the outside it's quite rough with those un-ground stones intact".


#72 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 14:21

Didn't Tilke said Austin have the same asphalt type as Korea and India? Couldn't Hembrey simply ask him? It's not an excuse


They should change their approach and introduce durable tyres, then bringing them to the half of the races


Maybe you didn't see my recent post with the AMuS story: Tilke is saying this, but some drivers say they can't believe it. Even if it is the same material, there are other influences (edit: see post directly above by muramasa) to how it will finally turn out, and it was finished after Pirelli needed to know. So no, Hembery asking Tilke is not a simple solution that Pirelli missed.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 18 November 2012 - 14:23.


#73 chrcol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:29

brilliant race so far, harder tryes much better than soft as I said year+ ago.

soft too much grip and too much degradation. one stop race better so overtakes on track and less grip.

#74 Snic

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:10

Low grip and longer tyre warmup > fast degradation with sticky tyres... Definitely in my book :)

Edited by Snic, 18 November 2012 - 21:11.


#75 Henrik B

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:13

The tyre choice wasn't too bad was it? Excessive degradation on top of this would have been too much...

#76 Atreiu

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:16

Low grip and longer tyre warmup > fast degradation with sticky tyres... Definitely in my book :)



Definitely.

#77 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:01

Low grip and longer tyre warmup > fast degradation with sticky tyres... Definitely in my book :)


Don't wait for the Pirelli haters to come back here and admit they were wrong.

#78 paulrobs

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 13:15

:down: He shouldn't be talking about the championship at all.

Tyres should be selected based on technical factors such as the asphalt, temperature, length of the pit-stop and other matters. The tyre selection should be optimized so that cars can finish the race in the quickest possible time including the pit stops.

Pirelli is a component supplier for crying out loud. Bring the best component for the task at hand. Do this over the whole season. Simple.


Can't disagree with this