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Webber missed weigh check in Q1


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#1 tarmac

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:42

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104324

Red Bull's Mark Webber is under investigation by the United States Grand Prix stewards for allegedly missing a weight check in qualifying.

Race officials said the incident happened at 12:19 local time, near the end of Q1.

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#2 race addicted

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:44

ooops. :|

#3 nada12

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:45

Back of the grid?

#4 Absulute

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:46

More Red Bull cheating :well:

#5 encircled

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:46

Weight check meaning the car right?

#6 Kvothe

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:47

What's the penalty if he's deemed to have missed it?

#7 H2H

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:47

More Red Bull cheating :well:


:lol:

More like another potential shot into the knee :rolleyes:

#8 TheSaltire

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:47

5 place grid penalty

#9 Kvothe

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:48

OK

26.2 In the event of any breach of these provisions for the weighing of cars the stewards may drop the driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate or exclude him from the race.



#10 sharo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:48

Can't imagine how one would miss a weight call if there has been a clear and unambiguous one.

#11 fisssssi

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:48

As an Australian and Webber fan, I never thought I'd say this, but please, a 5-place penalty would do wonders for the championship.

#12 sniper80

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:48

Too bad it' not Vettel :rotfl:

#13 kartinhero

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:49

His Q1 will be vitiated (so that means Q2 and Q3 times also)

#14 olliek88

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:49

Is there a precedent for such an event? One doesn't spring to mind.

#15 encircled

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:50

Is there a precedent for such an event? One doesn't spring to mind.

Yeah, this is the first time I have ever heard of such a thing. And according to what Kvothe quoted, the penalty is open to the interpretation of the stewards.

#16 korzeniow

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:51

Kimi P3? I hope so!

#17 george1981

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:54

JEV missed one earlier this year and was let off with a reprimand:
http://motorsport.ne...idge,40504.html

However as a stone cold cynic I think the FIA could give Webber a 10 place grid drop. That would make Alonso a net 7th and put him on the clean side of the grid.

#18 choyothe

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:54

If so, WTF are RB doing lately? Amateurish.

#19 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:54

Probably back of the grid I think.

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#20 PapaD

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:55

If so, WTF are RB doing lately? Amateurish.


Designing rocket ships son.

#21 H2H

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:56

JEV missed one earlier this year and was let off with a reprimand:
http://motorsport.ne...idge,40504.html

However as a stone cold cynic I think the FIA could give Webber a 10 place grid drop. That would make Alonso a net 7th and put him on the clean side of the grid.


Well let us hope that they are for once consistent with their ruling.

#22 encircled

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:56

JEV missed one earlier this year and was let off with a reprimand:
http://motorsport.ne...idge,40504.html

However as a stone cold cynic I think the FIA could give Webber a 10 place grid drop. That would make Alonso a net 7th and put him on the clean side of the grid.

Thanks for the info!

#23 tarmac

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:57

JEV missed one earlier this year and was let off with a reprimand:
http://motorsport.ne...idge,40504.html

However as a stone cold cynic I think the FIA could give Webber a 10 place grid drop. That would make Alonso a net 7th and put him on the clean side of the grid.


But Vergne was out of Q2 so Toro Rosso brought the car to FIA

"upon realizing the error, the team, under supervision of a scrutineer, brought the car back to the FIA garage." With a grid penalty the possible alternate decision for the FIA, Vergne is lucky to be able to retain his 19th grid position for tomorrow’s race.


Edited by tarmac, 17 November 2012 - 19:58.


#24 Kvothe

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:58

JEV missed one earlier this year and was let off with a reprimand:
http://motorsport.ne...idge,40504.html

However as a stone cold cynic I think the FIA could give Webber a 10 place grid drop. That would make Alonso a net 7th and put him on the clean side of the grid.


His punishment will depend on if Red Bull did something similar to this:

The FIA decided to only reprimand the Toro Rosso driver, with the FIA stating that "upon realizing the error, the team, under supervision of a scrutineer, brought the car back to the FIA garage."


Considering the relationship between the teams I don't see what anything different would be done, but if not he may get more than a reprimand.

#25 D.M.N.

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:59

JEV missed one earlier this year and was let off with a reprimand:
http://motorsport.ne...idge,40504.html

However as a stone cold cynic I think the FIA could give Webber a 10 place grid drop. That would make Alonso a net 7th and put him on the clean side of the grid.

Note the reasoning though, Toro Rosso took the car back to the FIA. As Red Bull didn't, a grid drop could be likely.

#26 korzeniow

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:59

Designing rocket ships son.


:lol: :up:

#27 korzeniow

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:00

Note the reasoning though, Toro Rosso took the car back to the FIA. As Red Bull didn't, a grid drop could be likely.


Exactly, they moved forward into Q2 and Q3

#28 D A

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:01

I believe I saw a Red Bull near the weight bridge at some point during qualifying, not sure if it was Webber though.

#29 Sakae

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:01

If so, WTF are RB doing lately? Amateurish.

Whose responsibility is it to comply with regs?

Edited by Sakae, 17 November 2012 - 20:03.


#30 SamH123

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:02

Oh wow, if Webber gets penalised could Raikonnen have had a better day?

No good for Q3 according to Lotus before qualifying, then gets 5th, then Grosjean penalty, then maybe Webber penalty.

#31 sv401

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:04

Designing rocket ships son.


I wonder if Webber will now also start from the pit lane with a racing optimized setup to take advantage of the alleged rocket ship, if he receives a serious penalty ?

#32 Jackmancer

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:06

Was this why Webber looked so grumpy when he stepped out of the car?

#33 showtime

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:08

I wonder if Webber will now also start from the pit lane with a racing optimized setup to take advantage of the alleged rocket ship, if he receives a serious penalty ?


They will be idiots if they don't do it.

#34 Longtimefan

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:13

Was this why Webber looked so grumpy when he stepped out of the car?


Mark is an ozzy, his default setting is 'grumpy' so, no. its normal :D


#35 sheSgoTthElooK

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:16

Mark is an ozzy, his default setting is 'grumpy' so, no. its normal :D


Really? What about their sunnyboy image :D

#36 SpaMaster

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:17

In Vergne's case, he drove the car to the garage instead of parc ferme. I think in Webber's case, he did park the car in parc ferme and the forgotten weight check is his own weight check. In that case, Vergne's incident would be irrelevant to this. I think he could be disqualified since there is no way to know if he did the qualy on legal weight. But Red Bull may be able to argue that a human being could not have gained weight so quickly and may make a case for helmet too. So, probably a 5 place penalty.

Edited by SpaMaster, 17 November 2012 - 20:19.


#37 Jackmancer

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:19

I wonder if Webber will now also start from the pit lane with a racing optimized setup to take advantage of the alleged rocket ship, if he receives a serious penalty ?


maybe ask Pirelli for special -off-the-ideal-line- tyres.

#38 Jackmancer

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:22

But Red Bull may be able to argue that a human being could not have gained weight so quickly and may make a case for helmet too.


True, very true - but if there will be no punishment, then why is the weigh-checkin there in the first place? -.^

#39 shonguiz

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:25

Can someone enlighten me on this procedure ? Who is weighed ? The car or driver ? How and when ?

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#40 SamH123

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:27

I didn't realise they were weighed after every part of qualifying?

#41 Goron3

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:31

Can someone enlighten me on this procedure ? Who is weighed ? The car or driver ? How and when ?


Both I believe. There's a minimum weight that they must adhere too throughout the weekend in order for the car to be legal. If Webber made it out of a qualifying session without being weighed, the car can't be proved to have been legal during that session.

Strange mistake.

#42 Goron3

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:31

Can someone enlighten me on this procedure ? Who is weighed ? The car or driver ? How and when ?


Both I believe. There's a minimum weight that they must adhere too throughout the weekend in order for the car to be legal. If Webber made it out of a qualifying session without being weighed, the car can't be proved to have been legal during that session.

Strange mistake.

#43 Shiroo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:32

smn with any twitter rumors?

#44 Atreiu

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:32

More Red Bull cheating :well:

Lets miss the weight check and hope they dont notice.

Briliant.

#45 SpaMaster

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:33

Can someone enlighten me on this procedure ? Who is weighed ? The car or driver ? How and when ?

Drivers are weighed after they finish the qualy. If they exit in Q1, it is after Q1. If they proceed to Q3, it is after Q3. Just once.

The weight is the combined weight of car, driver and helmet.

EDIT: I am wrong on this. After looking at the regulations, only the Q3 drivers are weighed by default and all drivers may be chosen randomly during Q1 and Q2. If it is true that Webber missed it only after Q1, he may escape with a reprimand.

Edited by SpaMaster, 17 November 2012 - 20:59.


#46 mnmracer

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:35

26.2 In the event of any breach of these provisions for the weighing of cars the stewards may drop the driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate or exclude him from the race.

So the question is, what would be a appropriate punishment for Webber for Q1?
I don't think you'll find anyone in the world trying to argue that Webber needed to cheat to get through Q1, so I don't see it being more than a warning.

#47 fisssssi

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:37

So the question is, what would be a appropriate punishment for Webber for Q1?
I don't think you'll find anyone in the world trying to argue that Webber needed to cheat to get through Q1, so I don't see it being more than a warning.


Yes, but the championship. The championship!

#48 scheivlak

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:38

Can someone enlighten me on this procedure ? Who is weighed ? The car or driver ? How and when ?

From the Sporting Regulations:

26) WEIGHING
26.1 a) During the qualifying practice session cars will be weighed as follows :
i) The FIA will install weighing equipment in the first pit garage (the FIA garage)
which will be used for the weighing procedure.
ii) Cars taking part in Q1 and Q2 will be selected at random to undergo the weighing
procedure.
iii) When signalled to do so the driver will proceed directly to the FIA garage and stop
his engine.
iv) The car will then be weighed with driver and the result given to the driver or a
team representative in writing.

v) At the end of the qualifying session all cars which took part in Q3 will be weighed.
If a driver wishes to leave his car before it is weighed he must ask the technical
delegate to weigh him in order that this weight may be added to that of the car.
vi) If the car is unable to reach the FIA garage under its own power it will be placed
under the exclusive control of the marshals who will take the car to be weighed.
vii) A car or driver may not leave the FIA garage without the consent of the FIA
technical delegate.
viii) If a car stops on the circuit and the driver leaves the car, he must go to the FIA
garage immediately on his return to the pit lane in order for his weight to be
established.
b) After the race every classified car will be weighed. If a driver wishes to leave his car
before it is weighed he must ask the technical delegate to weigh him in order that this
weight may be added to that of the car.
c) The relevant car may be excluded should its weight be less than that specified in Article
4.1 of the Technical Regulations when weighed under a) or b) above, save where the
deficiency in weight results from the accidental loss of a component of the car.
d) No substance may be added to, placed on, or removed from a car after it has been
selected for weighing or has finished the race or during the weighing procedure. (Except
by a scrutineer when acting in his official capacity).
e) No one other than scrutineers and officials may enter or remain in the FIA garage
without the specific permission of the FIA technical delegate.

26.2 In the event of any breach of these provisions for the weighing of cars the stewards may drop
the driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate or exclude him from the race.


#49 pRy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:38

It's not as if Vettel needs Webber's help with that.

#50 Snic

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:40

Michael Wise ‏@SkySportsMike
Stewards currently seeing @AussieGrit, allegation being that he failed to stop for his car to be weighed at the end of Q1 #AustinGP #skyf1