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Lewis Hamilton - Part IV


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#101 moorsey

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:24

That article about Dennis and Hamilton was interesting, very interesting. Thanks for posting it. I'm beginning to see where some of the pressure on Whitmarsh is coming from. Some of the things he's said recently have been out of chracter for him I feel. He was such a breath of fresh air at McLaren when he took over from Ron Dennis but this year, especially during and after the contract discussions, he's been out of characer for me. I wonder wat strings Ron is pulling behind the scenes.

Dennis is not inept though and certainly not an idiot. He has been exceptionally successful and has built McLaren up to be quite something in terms of a race team, rsearch and development, electronics specialists, and car compay. There was an excellent article in a recent issue of Motorsport about Dennis and when I read it, many times in fact, I was in awe of what he has achieved. You may not like his style or even like him but he has been more successful in his chosen field than anyone on this forum for sure.


Are you absolutely sure? :cool:

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#102 P123

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:39

It's becoming increasingly clear that it was Dennis who pushed Lewis out rather than Whitmarsh.


I don't think anybody pushed him out, and I've never really understood what exactly the problem with Whitmarsh is meant to be? I've never heard LH say a bad word about him; quite the opposite in fact. I'd say RD is frustrated more than anything else. He's replacing Hamilton with Perez.

#103 TomNokoe

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:41

I think part of Alonso's respect for Hamilton may come from the fact that he see's some the ruthlessness from Hamilton that Alonso so often exerts. e.g Hungary 2007 quali when Hamilton didn't let him by.

#104 Lazy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:43

I don't think anybody pushed him out, and I've never really understood what exactly the problem with Whitmarsh is meant to be? I've never heard LH say a bad word about him; quite the opposite in fact. I'd say RD is frustrated more than anything else. He's replacing Hamilton with Perez.


Ok, annoyed him enough to make him leave.

#105 speng

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:57

It's becoming increasingly clear that it was Dennis who pushed Lewis out rather than Whitmarsh.

:lol: with all the news available concerning Hamilton's move to MB you are not able come to a logical conclusion

#106 jrg19

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:59

Thank you McLaren on Lewis' helmet.

#107 slmk

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:59

Nice onboard from LH throughout the famous Lap 42 of the US GP.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#108 F1ultimate

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:06

Thank you McLaren on Lewis' helmet.


Yupp just saw it. Looks sweet. I see more red on the sides but need to see more angles.

Btw: Did Lewis use Comic Sans at the font for "thank you"???

Edited by F1ultimate, 23 November 2012 - 12:10.


#109 Absulute

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:08

Posted Image

#110 jrg19

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:19

Posted Image

#111 study

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:35

not much different from current Vettel bashing or Fernando bashing back in 05/06


No where near, not even close.

#112 bub

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:53

Really liking the new latest helmet design. :love:

#113 Force Ten

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 13:05

I don't think anybody pushed him out, and I've never really understood what exactly the problem with Whitmarsh is meant to be?

Bonaventura and some others really didn't like Whitmarsh. My best guess is it is that.

#114 Nahnever

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 13:07

Lewis Hamilton Part I A New Hope - http://forums.autosp...howtopic=159278

Actually, part IV in Star Wars was 'A New Hope'. Part I was the beginning of the new terrible Episodes. This is actually fitting considering he's moving onto Mercedes. Looks like this thread came just in time  ;)

Edited by Nahnever, 23 November 2012 - 13:10.


#115 Sinceref189

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 13:14

Actually, part IV in Star Wars was 'A New Hope'. Part I was the beginning of the new terrible Episodes. This is actually fitting considering he's moving onto Mercedes. Looks like this thread came just in time ;)

Remeber there's new sequel's in the pipeline aswell that start in 2015 :lol:

#116 F1ultimate

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 16:16

A chronicle of Lewis' career at Mclaren by yours Daily:

http://www.dailymail...-Prix-2012.html

#117 jjcale

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 17:54

Posted Image


This is a very nice touch ...

#118 Fatgadget

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 18:28

Found this quote from March 2008 while digging in older threads about Lewis.



http://forums.autosp...howtopic=100033

Staggering, the amount of hate Lewis received!

More like the interest Lewis generated that was staggering. I remember this board achieving melt down and new members being prevented from signing up.Such was the deluge of interest in him.


#119 OoxLox

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 18:32

After being fastest in the two sessions so far the pole seems like it could be on for Lewis. How cool would it be if he could bow out of McLaren with his first Grand Chelem :smoking:

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#120 paulrobs

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 18:37

Are you absolutely sure? :cool:


I am as sure as I can be without having proof so yes :)

#121 slmk

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:09

After being fastest in the two sessions so far the pole seems like it could be on for Lewis. How cool would it be if he could bow out of McLaren with his first Grand Chelem :smoking:


It's going to be really hard. Rain is the big unknown.

I think Lewis can definitely get pole.

By far his best car (since 2007) around Interlagos.

Edited by slmk, 23 November 2012 - 19:09.


#122 garoidb

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:09

It's becoming increasingly clear that it was Dennis who pushed Lewis out rather than Whitmarsh.


I am not sure how you have concluded that, but I would be interested to know.

#123 garoidb

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:12

Probably because of the stellar team performance.


Going to Mercedes for this reason would not make sense. I doubt this was the reason.

#124 garoidb

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:14

Yes but it's frustrating to think that at the end of 2013, Fred & Seb probably will be on 3 WDC each and Lewis still with only 1, fighting for a podium here & there with the silver grey donkey :(
A driver with Lewis talent deserves so much more


Or possibly 4 for Seb, not that this would be any more palatable for Lewis.

#125 Slackbladder

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:19

Rachel Brookes ‏@RachelBrookesTV

Martin Whitmarsh tells sky sports news Mclaren would have Lewis back and he hopes Lewis "is just on a gap year" #Ssn #skyf1


Is this Martin just realising he's let the very best thing currently about the mclaren team slip through his fingers, and theres a good chance they'll be crap next year, with Button and Perez not being on the same level?

#126 Clatter

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:27

Is this Martin just realising he's let the very best thing currently about the mclaren team slip through his fingers, and theres a good chance they'll be crap next year, with Button and Perez not being on the same level?


Simply means there is no bad feeling and they would have him back again.

#127 Lazy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:28

I am not sure how you have concluded that, but I would be interested to know.


http://www.dailymail...dbye-party.html

That article and much more anecdotal evidence.

As you say it's unlikely he's leaving for team mistakes and certainly not for car performance.

His relationship with Whitmarsh seems to be as good as ever.



#128 paulrobs

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:31

Did anyone see Whitmarsh and Brawn in deep discussion during today's final practice session? At least I think it was the second one. I'd givemy right testicle to know what they were talking about. Whitmarsh was talking with his hands a little too.

Ok, take that back. Maybe not my testicle. I'd like to know though.

Edit: Pertinent to this thread because I was wondering if Hamilton was the topic. I'm sure not but did wonder

Edited by paulrobs, 23 November 2012 - 20:07.


#129 Clatter

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:32

http://www.dailymail...dbye-party.html

That article and much more anecdotal evidence.

As you say it's unlikely he's leaving for team mistakes and certainly not for car performance.

His relationship with Whitmarsh seems to be as good as ever.


Yeah, because it would be really good for business to blow off a sponsors do at which you are the guest of honour. :rolleyes:

But Dennis instead chose to attend what a team spokesman described as β€˜an important cocktail reception hosted by Exxon Mobil executives at which he was guest of honour’.



#130 Lazy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:46

Yeah, because it would be really good for business to blow off a sponsors do at which you are the guest of honour. :rolleyes:


Sure, but that's not the only thing they mention in the article and, as I said there is plenty more evidence.
:rolleyes:

#131 garoidb

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:51

Is this Martin just realising he's let the very best thing currently about the mclaren team slip through his fingers, and theres a good chance they'll be crap next year, with Button and Perez not being on the same level?


Simply means there is no bad feeling and they would have him back again.


And a bit of PR thrown in. McLaren would be more potent with Lewis on the team, but they will be fine anyway. Jenson has won races every year he has been on the team, and they have survived not winning WDCs, even with Lewis on the team, for several years now anyway.

There is a possibility, by the way, that the McLaren will be very competitive next year with Jenson able to have a tilt at a second title.

#132 P123

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:52

Did anyone see Whitmarsh and Brawn in deep discussion during today's final practice session? At least I think it was the second one. I'd givemy right testicle to know what they were talking about. Whitmarsh was talking with his hands a little too.

Ok, take that back. Maybe not my testicle. I'd like to know though.


Apparently it was filmed between the sessions, which would make sense as they would be on the pitwall during the session. No doubt discussing an early release for Hamilton from his McLaren contract. Or maybe the weather. Or anything.

#133 Clatter

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:55

Sure, but that's not the only thing they mention in the article and, as I said there is plenty more evidence.
:rolleyes:


Such as?

#134 garoidb

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:56

http://www.dailymail...dbye-party.html

That article and much more anecdotal evidence.


Yes, that is interesting. I would love to know Ron's perspective on the negotiations (before and after) and on keeping Lewis in the team.

His relationship with Whitmarsh seems to be as good as ever.


I originally read that as "as good as over" but it does seem that relations with MW may not be the issue.

#135 Kvothe

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:57

http://www.sportingl...aren-exit-looms


In an interview with the BBC as part of their review package looking back on the current campaign, Hamilton became teary-eyed when asked about his exit from a team he has been associated with for the last 14 years.



#136 Lazy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:02

Such as?


Lewis surprisingly not being able to contact Ron even after he announced he's leaving and stating that he had been trying.

The Monza GP where something was clearly amiss.

Lewis going to RBR in Canada last year was bound to have pissed Ron off no end.

Ron twice not joining their victory celebrations when Lewis won.

The pay cut remarks from Ron.

etc



#137 Lazy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:04

As surprising as it is, Jenson has never been a "strong" contender for the WDC with McLaren. As long as he can't put that McLaren on pole (or at least where it "doesn't belong", like Alonso has done this season), he won't be challenging for titles. That's where Lewis' forte was. On most occasions, you could always count on a McLaren in very good shape come race day.

Lewis' departure will put a lot more pressure on the engineering team. Of course, they'll manage without him, like Ferrari has managed without MSC and Kimi. Like McLaren also managed without Mika, Senna, Prost, etc. A driver is never bigger than the team.

To me it speaks volumes that Button, Perez and Hamilton nearly have the same odds of being 2013 WDC, despite Mercedes' dismal form in the second half of 2012 and McLaren's excellent form in the second half of 2012.


Wrong thread.

#138 BernieEc

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:08

Lewis surprisingly not being able to contact Ron even after he announced he's leaving and stating that he had been trying.

The Monza GP where something was clearly amiss.

Lewis going to RBR in Canada last year was bound to have pissed Ron off no end.

Ron twice not joining their victory celebrations when Lewis won.

The pay cut remarks from Ron.

etc


does it matter if Ron pushed him out or not. Bottom line is he's leaving. I would have thought you would be happy.

#139 Clatter

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:09

Lewis surprisingly not being able to contact Ron even after he announced he's leaving and stating that he had been trying.

The Monza GP where something was clearly amiss.

Lewis going to RBR in Canada last year was bound to have pissed Ron off no end.

Ron twice not joining their victory celebrations when Lewis won.

The pay cut remarks from Ron.

etc


I don't think any of those point to RD pushing LH out.

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#140 garoidb

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:13

As surprising as it is, Jenson has never been a "strong" contender for the WDC with McLaren. As long as he can't put that McLaren on pole (or at least where it "doesn't belong", like Alonso has done this season), he won't be challenging for titles. That's where Lewis' forte was. On most occasions, you could always count on a McLaren in very good shape come race day.


I detect from some quarters a premature schadenfreude for how terribly McLaren will suffer next year. All I am saying is - it may not happen.

Lewis' departure will put a lot more pressure on the engineering team. Of course, they'll manage without him, like Ferrari has managed without MSC and Kimi. Like McLaren also managed without Mika, Senna, Prost, etc. A driver is never bigger than the team.


I don't see how.

To me it speaks volumes that Button, Perez and Hamilton nearly have the same odds of being 2013 WDC, despite Mercedes' dismal form in the second half of 2012 and McLaren's excellent form in the second half of 2012.


It will be interesting to see how the odds look after three to five races of the 2013 championship. There are a lot of unknowns about the Lewis-Mercedes partnership, particularly the impression given that Mercedes are set to make a big step forward which may prove to be empty PR (these promises usually do).

#141 speng

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:19

Lewis surprisingly not being able to contact Ron even after he announced he's leaving and stating that he had been trying.

The Monza GP where something was clearly amiss.

Lewis going to RBR in Canada last year was bound to have pissed Ron off no end.

Ron twice not joining their victory celebrations when Lewis won.

The pay cut remarks from Ron.

etc

and yet the final offer from Mclaren would have made Hamilton the best paid driver in F1
I understand your bias and you want to spin the story your way however it does seem that Ron is not happy Hamilton is leaving and showing his displeasure.

Edited by speng, 23 November 2012 - 20:19.


#142 slmk

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:20

I detect from some quarters a premature schadenfreude for how terribly McLaren will suffer next year. All I am saying is - it may not happen.



I don't see how.



It will be interesting to see how the odds look after three to five races of the 2013 championship. There are a lot of unknowns about the Lewis-Mercedes partnership, particularly the impression given that Mercedes are set to make a big step forward which may prove to be empty PR (these promises usually do).


Let's take this to the JB - LH thread... but my post wasn't premature schadenfreude - if you can't recognize that Lewis has been outstanding in qualifying this year, then I don't know what to say. Button has never been a good qualifier with McLaren, something he will have to fix as team leader next year (and especially paired with a driver not known for his 1-lap pace.

Lewis' departure will put pressure on the engineering team for that exact reason (Lewis can drive around problems better than Jenson). They will need a balanced car that can warm tyre easily and that has a wide setup range.

Re: 2013 odds, ... interesting that you take the side of "Mercedes 2013 campaign is an empty PR spiel"... conversely, I could say bookies have 1) no trust in McLaren to turn it around operationally and in terms of reliability and 2) don't think JB is WDC material with such a tight field.


#143 Kvothe

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:22

I detect from some quarters a premature schadenfreude for how terribly McLaren will suffer next year. All I am saying is - it may not happen.



I don't see how.



It will be interesting to see how the odds look after three to five races of the 2013 championship. There are a lot of unknowns about the Lewis-Mercedes partnership, particularly the impression given that Mercedes are set to make a big step forward which may prove to be empty PR (these promises usually do).


Mercedes have promised nothing; in fact both they and Lewis have been quick to downplay the competitiveness of the car next year, by stating that they don't expect to fight for the championship next year, instead insisting that the focus is more towards 2014 and the big regulation changes.

What I did think was interesting was that during the team principle press conference when asked about DDRS and it not being used next year, Ross (to paraphrase) said that the team already had solutions in place to compensate for this, and seemed quite smug when saying it. I hope one of those solutions helps them to understand the tyres more, since that, and not a lack of raw pace, has been their actual problem this year.

#144 slmk

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:23

http://www1.skysport..._medium=twitter

Interesting... seems Whippy wouldn't mind Lewis back...

#145 speng

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:25

Is there any extenuating circumstances why Button 8th in the 2nd practice?

#146 Kvothe

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:31

Low downforce set-up

#147 slmk

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:32

Is there any extenuating circumstances why Button 8th in the 2nd practice?


Wrong wing angle it seems. Low DF set-up doesn't work too well. He will revert to Lewis's settings (as in FP1).

#148 speng

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:34

thanks guys

#149 jrg19

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 20:56

http://www1.skysport..._medium=twitter

Interesting... seems Whippy wouldn't mind Lewis back...


Lewis win WDC in 2014 when manufacturer counts then back to McLaren for his final years picking up a few more title :up:


Please?

#150 garoidb

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 21:08

Let's take this to the JB - LH thread...


I posted a response there.