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#1 motorhead

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:09

I have heard that if the driver or team don´t want us to hear the radio messages they swear a lot. That´s how they avoid the broadcasting messages in public. I don´t remember the source but this sound quite logical to me. Especially after what we saw after Abu Dhabi interviews.

So if Seb just have said the f -word no one would write here about it. I wonder how much there is unheard bad language during the races :D

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#2 akshay380

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:19

I have heard that if the driver or team don´t want us to hear the radio messages they swear a lot. That´s how they avoid the broadcasting messages in public. I don´t remember the source but this sound quite logical to me. Especially after what we saw after Abu Dhabi interviews.

So if Seb just have said the f -word no one would write here about it. I wonder how much there is unheard bad language during the races :D

Good logic but I doubt teams/drivers bother about what arm chair experts hear :). AFAIK, teams can listen to each others communication continuously?

Edited by akshay380, 22 November 2012 - 09:21.


#3 alfa1

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:58

I wonder how much there is unheard bad language during the races :D


In my years of listening to radio transmissions via scanners at races, F1 drivers almost without exception, never swear at all.
This is in contrast to Australian V8 supercar drivers, who are certainly not family friendly.

There are exceptions, and I give you this transcript I made of Juan Pablo Montoya's (who had a reputation for swearing) 2003 race in Melbourne, in which you will see one or two things...

Edit - actually two other examples spring to mind.
1. Webber finishing in 5th place in the Minardi, 2002. A few celebratory F's as he thanks the crew.
2. Villeneuve and Clear getting frustrated over radios that dont work properly in qualifying, 1999.
(But as I said, generally no swearing at all in F1)

----

Montoya radio transcript.
Melbourne 2003

TR: is Montoya's race engineer, Tony Ross.
Pits: is other williams engineers.
JMP: is Juan Pablo Montoya

The transcript starts 3 minutes before the formation lap.
Since it was made from a poor quality recording, and the
signal strength was not good, there are several parts which
are inaudible or garbled.


-3:00
TR: Ok Juan, radio check? Ok? you might need... (inaudible)
Ok, perfect. ok. So, front wing setting, we go back to a
dry front wing setting, or stay wet?
JPM: Wet. We want wet.
TR: Ok, we stay wet. Remember, go dry on the tyres, and FSC3,
Juan. Dry on the tyres, and FSC3. We got 2 minutes left,
or three minutes left.

-2:00
Pits: 2 minutes. 2 minutes to go.
Blankets on top, car on the ground please.

JPM: Sorry, (inaudible question) oil pump, diff pressure.
TR: It wont work. Thats right. It wont work.
The other thing is, the brake balance, at the moment its
fifty two five, maybe it should stay like that to start off
with. I'll leave it to you, yeah?

-1:00
Pits: 1 minute. 1 minute to go.

JPM: What LIFT position are we in?
TR: Say that one again?
JPM: LIFT. LIFT 3, yeah?
TR: Its DIFF 3, so when you do the burnout, remember go TC off.
Just so that you know, Panis directly behind you is on dry
tyres also. Panis is on dry tyres. All the Bridgestone
runners are still on intermediates.
JPM: LIFT. LIFT position 3, was in position 1 before.
TR: LIFT, should be in position 1. LIFT in position 1.

0:00 (cars start to move off on formation lap)

JPM: LIFT, position 1, thats what I have, yeah. DIFF 1 or 3?
TR: (shouting over the noise of the cars)
DIFF, DIFF position 3 DIFF position 3 DIFF position 3 DIFF
position 3, and then LIFT position 1, LIFT position 1.
So L for LIFT is 1, D for DIFF is 3, Juan.


TR: Now remember on your burnout... (inaudible)

TR: Think about your brake balance as well, Juan, think about
your brake balance.

JPM: Got a little bit more grip (than?) the other side, but
still, theres not really a lot of grip in it.
TR: Ok, well, we've got what we've got now. Just remember,
warm up those rears, warm up those rears.

TR: ...cars are still forming up.
...last cars are coming to the grid.


------------------ Race start -------------------

Juan moves to 3rd, but makes a mistake at turn 12 and is passed
by Heidfeld. In the next lap, Juan retakes Heidfeld.
Order lap 2 is Michael, Rubens, and a small gap to Juan.

TR: Ok, you're catching them at least a second a lap.
Think about your brake balance. Think about your brake
balance.

Rubens crashes lap 6.
Not long after that, Firman crashes, Michael pits and DaMatta
ends up in the gravel. Juan is leader, and the safety car
is deployed.

TR: Ok, Juan, you're leading by (inaudible).
Just keep and eye on debris. Keep an eye out for debris.

Pits: Tony, oil pump in the next main straight, please.

JPM: (inaudible) safety car.
TR: (inaudible)

Pits: (impatient) Tony, oil pump.
TR: Oil pump Juan, oil pump.

TR: Remember Juan, stay (inaudible) with the safety car, save fuel.

Pits: Fuel update, Tony.

TR: (inaudible) ... everything ok with the car, Juan?
JPM: (inaudible)

TR: At the moment, you've obviuosly got 2 Renaults directly behind
you, then Webber and Raikonnen. Raikonnen's (inaudible) at
the moment (inaudible) stop.
JPM: (inaudible) with everybody else?
TR: At the moment, Alonso is reasonably quick, you are probably
about half a second slower over a lap. He was picking up
some time on you. Just a couple of tenths each sector.

TR: Ok, just think about your restart, Juan. When the safety car
lights go out. Think about your restart.
JPM: (inaudible)

10 laps
TR: Juan, the safety car will be in this lap, in this lap.
TR: Juan, are the lights out on the safety car?
JPM: (inaudible)

Safety car comes in. Order is Juan, Jarno, Ralf.

Pits: Fuel update, tony.

Pits: (inaudible)
Pits: Tony, fuel update.


Webber stops on the side of the track with a rear suspension
problem, which brings out the safety car once more.
Juan pits immediately.


TR: Stand by for Juan, stand by for Juan, he'll be getting
set 11 and fuel (inaudible).
TR: Box, Juan. Box, Juan, now.
TR: Stand by for Juan. It'll be set 11, set 11.
TR: It'll be Juan first. Set 11 and fuel. Set 11 and fuel.

Juan pits under safety car.

TR: Watch the white line on the exit, Juan. Watch the white line.


TR: The slicks for Juan is set 15. Still 107 for wets.

JPM: (inaudible) in the pits. Very good call, very good.
TR: 10-4, you're in a good place.

JPM: What can you tell me about the guys in front of me?
How many have been in? How far do you think they
can go?
TR: Ok, Panis is immediately in front of you. He's pitted
once. He started on slicks, so I guess he can go, maybe
not as long as you, its difficult to judge. The only
person who hasnt stopped in front of you is Raikonnen.
He's, I guess, its going to be fairly tight I would guess.
Michael we dont think put much fuel in. He's second.
DC stopped immediately for slicks on about the second lap.

JPM: (inaudible) try to drive(?) forward, yeah?
TR: I think we should go for that. (inaudible)
JPM: 10-4 (inaudible)

JPM: Save fuel, or be ok?
TR: Yeah, you need to save fuel, Juan, to enable us to go
a little bit longer before the stop.

TR: What is the general balance like?
JPM: Good or very good.
TR: Ok, copy that. Safety car is in this lap. Safety car will
be in this lap.


Lap 20 - Safety car comes in.

Pits: Tony, oil pump please.
TR: (inaudible) on the next straight.
TR: Oil pump Juan, oil pump.

JPM: On the last set (inaudible) rear. Pressure on this (inaudible).
TR: Copy that. Copy that.

Pits: (inaudible) drop the rear point five.
Pits: Ok, (Gil?/Jim?)

Pits: Fuel update, Tony.
TR: (inaudible)

Pits: Tony, oil pump on the next main straight, please.
TR: Oil pump Juan, oil pump.

JPM: (inaudible) rear tyres.
TR: Keep it up, Juan. Keep it up.
TR: Move the brake balance forward. Move the brake balance forward.
Juan, everyone has done one stop in front of you.
Keep pushing. Keep pushing. You are on target (inaudible).
Just keep pushing.

Pits: Fuel update, Tony.
TR: (inaudible)

TR: Ok Juan, DC is in this lap, so keep pushing.

With the pit stops of DC and Kimi, Juan moves to P1.

TR: Ok Juan, push (inaudible). P1, P1. So push hard now,
push hard now.

TR: (inaudible)
Pits: Negative, Tony.
TR: Copy that.


Pits: (inaudible) Juan will be in first, obviously, and
he'll be set 15. Set 15, and he'll be 3 laps
longer than the sheet.

Pits: Tony, oil pump on the next main straight, please.
TR: Oil pump Juan. Oil pump.

Lap 35

Pits: Fuel update, Tony.
TR: (inaudible)

Lap 40

Pits: Fuel update, Tony.
TR: (inaudible)

JPM: (inaudible)
TR: 10-4, Juan.

Pits: Tony, can you get him to activate the oil pump on the
back straight now, please.

Pits: One minute 'till Juan's in.

JPM: I want to keep the tyres (inaudible)
TR: Ok, fuel only for Juan. Box now Juan.
30 seconds. Are you sure, Juan?
JPM: The balance of the tyres (inaudible) really bad.
This set is much better.
TR: 10-4, no tyres for Juan. No tyres for Juan. Ok, do not
set tyres, fuel only.
Pits: He's in the pit lane.
Pits: Pit lane is clear, Carl. Pit lane is clear.

TR: Watch for the yellow line on the exit, Juan. Watch for the
line on the exit.
Michael just went through. Coulthard's behind him. P2.
Michael's about 10 seconds down the road.

Pits: Tony, I need the oil pump on the next main straight.
TR: Ok, he's gonna have it on the main pit straight now.
TR: Oil pump Juan, oil pump.

After running wide, Michael's car bodywork is damaged.
Air deflectors / bargeboards start falling off.

TR: Caution, Michael is losing bodywork. He is losing
bodywork. Caution.
JPM: Is he ahead?
TR: Copy that, he is 12 seconds ahead at the moment, but he
is losing bodywork. (inaudible) all over the place.


Pits: Fuel update, Tony.

With Michael pitting to remove damaged parts, Juan is now
the leader. Order is Juan, DC, Kimi, Michael.

TR: Ok Juan, you are P1. Michael's in the pit lane, you're
racing 4 or 5 seconds (inaudible).

Juan spins it at turn 1, but rejoins.

JPM: (what sounds like) !$(%*#& sorry.
TR: Allright, just get it back together. Cars allright isnt
it? Touched anything?
JPM: I ****ed up (inaudible)
TR: Get it together. Raikonnen's behind you, P2.

Pits: All ok, Sam
Pits: Ok Carl, stand down. Didnt touch anything.

JPM: Sorry guys, my fault completely.
TR: 10-4, just keep pushing. Keep Raikonnen behind you.


Pits: Tony, message.
TR: Ok, yeah?
Pits: Tony, need an oil pump on the next straight as well, please.
TR: (inaudible)
TR: Oil pump, Juan. Oil pump.


TR: Fuel position 3, Juan. Fuel position (3?).

JPM: Can I do anything more for the rear tyres?
TR: Try going up on LIFT. If the rear tyres is locking going
into corners, LIFT 2.

Lap 53

Pits: Tony, oil pump on the next main straight please.
TR: ok
TR: Oil pump, Juan. Oil pump.

--- FINISH --- Order was DC, Juan, Kimi.

JPM: (inaudible) dunno what happened. When I picked up the
throttle, the car just turned, turned itself on me.
TR: Ok, copy that, Juan. Remember pick up plenty of rubber
on the in lap. P2, not bad for the start race.
Remember the shutdown sequence.
JPM: You guys, ****.

-----

Edited by alfa1, 22 November 2012 - 10:04.


#4 Costaz

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:29

In my years of listening to radio transmissions via scanners at races, F1 drivers almost without exception, never swear at all.
This is in contrast to Australian V8 supercar drivers, who are certainly not family friendly.

There are exceptions, and I give you this transcript I made of Juan Pablo Montoya's (who had a reputation for swearing) 2003 race in Melbourne, in which you will see one or two things...

-----


Thanks for sharing this, a great read :up: :up:

#5 motorhead

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:38

In my years of listening to radio transmissions via scanners at races, F1 drivers almost without exception, never swear at all.
This is in contrast to Australian V8 supercar drivers, who are certainly not family friendly.

There are exceptions, and I give you this transcript I made of Juan Pablo Montoya's (who had a reputation for swearing) 2003 race in Melbourne, in which you will see one or two things...
-----



Ok interesting, my bad :up: . If I remember correctly it was Mika Salo who said that the drivers swear tactically not to be aired during the race. Well it is not worth swearing if everything is available to other teams during the race anyway. I don´t understand Salo´s statement, he should know something about F1

Edited by motorhead, 22 November 2012 - 12:40.


#6 MightyMoose

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 13:29

I'm sure it's not quite as explicit as the good ol' boys in Nascar, but there's no doubt plenty of curse words get used.

Browsing a well-known video sharing website can show you clips of Montoya cussing out Raikkonen as an easy example.

I've heard before (maybe on a season review DVD?) the RE gives a warning to the driver on the cool down lap something along the lines of "Ok Kimi, next time I speak we'll be live on air so a reminder to be careful what you say"..... then it goes into the congrats message that is aired for all the world to hear.


#7 robefc

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 13:48

Thanks for sharing this, a great read :up: :up:


:up: x 2

Got an adrenaline rush reading that, as if I was involved in a race!

#8 DrProzac

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 22:26

Great post alfa1 :)

I wonder what was up with his oil pump :)

#9 spacekid

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 22:41

Really good stuff alfa1, thanks for taking the time to transcribe all that!!! I really enjoyed reading it.

It would actually be cool to be able to read more 'whole race' transcripts of drivers races, I really like the technical aspects of managing a F1 car through the race.

#10 alfa1

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 00:53

I wonder what was up with his oil pump



Nothings wrong with the oil pump.
As I understand it, F1 engines have some kind of a separate reserve for topping up the main oil tank during the race.
Calls to operate the oil transfer are common, but boring enough that you wont hear them on TV.

Here, as a random example, black button on the left hand side, quarter of the way down "Oil"...
Example1

Or this one, lower left "Pump"...
Example2

And for those who love transcripts, I just found another one, Brazil Grand Prix 2006, Renault team, in which several calls for an oil transfer are seen...
CF1


#11 gm914

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:26

Great read Alfa1. :up:

As Mighty Moose mentioned, the NASCAR boys (and a potty-mouth girl) curse up a storm in their cars. Occasionally one will slip through to live live broadcast before they get a chance to bleep it, but usually we'll get a *bleepin* Kyle or Kurt mother*bleeping* Busch rant just on every week.

Here's a great (uncensored) recap of the 2012 NASCAR season. Watch it through. Cover granny's ears though, especially after 8 mins. :blush:

Edited by gm914, 23 November 2012 - 01:34.


#12 jonpollak

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:36

My fav this season was..
Danica Patrick: "Fcuk Fcukity Fcuk"
Jp

#13 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:54

:up: x 2

Got an adrenaline rush reading that, as if I was involved in a race!


Absolutely, and thanks to alfa1 for sharing! Like you, robefc, I got all excited reading that, especially the pre-race stuff which reads like the launch preparations for a rocket start. If FOM had any sense they would use stuff like this - they should have a look at Red Bull's stratosphere jump to learn how to create suspense.

#14 john_smith

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:46

on the abu dhabi debrief episode of the flying lap, it was mentioned that teams get a final veto power over any radio transmissions that FOM wants to broadcast. this was noted in the context of kimi's response during the abu dhabi race. not sure if this is correct.

i also think FOM should do something about ferrari's radio transmissions in italian. the other teams can easily translate what they say, and all it achieves is denying the viewers the opportunity to listen to their messages.

#15 wacktifosi

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:33

Absolutely, and thanks to alfa1 for sharing! Like you, robefc, I got all excited reading that, especially the pre-race stuff which reads like the launch preparations for a rocket start. If FOM had any sense they would use stuff like this - they should have a look at Red Bull's stratosphere jump to learn how to create suspense.


They absolutely should. There really isn't anything that needs to be said during the parade lap that can't be said earlier.

OT: Who is it in that NASCAR review that yells "holy balls that was awesome"? I can't figure that one out, Biffle maybe?

Also, just once, I would like to hear an F1 driver describe their car as a "wrecked bucket of f*ck".

Edited by wacktifosi, 23 November 2012 - 06:34.


#16 FirstWatt

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:03

[...]i also think FOM should do something about ferrari's radio transmissions in italian. the other teams can easily translate what they say, and all it achieves is denying the viewers the opportunity to listen to their messages.

Sorry what??
1. Radio messages are not for the viewers primarily
2. Not all world is speaking english, so...

Thats linguistic chauvinism.


#17 darkkis

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:16

Sorry what??
1. Radio messages are not for the viewers primarily
2. Not all world is speaking english, so...

Thats linguistic chauvinism.

Lol... No it isn't.. Most of the F1 viewers speak english as their primary or at least secondary language. Italian more rarely... I'm finnish and it pisses me off that they keep playbacking those messages in italian when no one understands single crap. Did you know that english is the "world" language, not Italian.

Edited by darkkis, 23 November 2012 - 09:16.


#18 Rinehart

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:28

I don't understand why, provided you click an acceptance button (to say your over 18 or whatever), that all feeds from all cars aren't permanently available from F1.com.

Sometimes I wonder if Bernie et all have realised the internet has been invented.

#19 FirstWatt

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:51

[...]I'm finnish and it pisses me off that they keep playbacking those messages in italian when no one understands single crap. Did you know that english is the "world" language, not Italian.

Of course it's not italian. World languages in the strictest sense are, according to Wikipedia, English, Spanish and French.

OTOH this doesn't imply that you can dictate in which language a driver and an engineer are talking to each other, only to have a bigger audience. Radio messages are for the driver and team, to maximise th outcome.

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#20 SpartanChas

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:55

Also, just once, I would like to hear an F1 driver describe their car as a "wrecked bucket of f*ck".

Definitely :up:

#21 03011969

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:10

i also think FOM should do something about ferrari's radio transmissions in italian. the other teams can easily translate what they say, and all it achieves is denying the viewers the opportunity to listen to their messages.

Wow! I'm an English speaker, with no other languages (to any level), but I cannot think if any good reason to force teams to use a particular language.



#22 armchair expert

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:22

Good logic but I doubt teams/drivers bother about what arm chair experts hear :). AFAIK, teams can listen to each others communication continuously?


Actually, the teams consult with me on a host of matters, but don't you worry about that. ; )

#23 Disgrace

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:27

on the abu dhabi debrief episode of the flying lap, it was mentioned that teams get a final veto power over any radio transmissions that FOM wants to broadcast. this was noted in the context of kimi's response during the abu dhabi race. not sure if this is correct.

i also think FOM should do something about ferrari's radio transmissions in italian. the other teams can easily translate what they say, and all it achieves is denying the viewers the opportunity to listen to their messages.


Chauvinistic nonsense. You don't have to go too far back to times whereby teams scrambled their radio, and all they would broadcast was the post-victory gushing.

Frankly, team radio doesn't contribute very much to my ability to dissect a race and therefore my viewing experience. FOM predominantly broadcast trivial items such as drivers moaning and calling for penalties.

Edited by Disgrace, 23 November 2012 - 12:28.


#24 gm914

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 15:01

Also, just once, I would like to hear an F1 driver describe their car as a "wrecked bucket of f*ck".


That was my favorite one. :lol:

#25 Clatter

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 16:18

Wow! I'm an English speaker, with no other languages (to any level), but I cannot think if any good reason to force teams to use a particular language.


Same here. The whole notion that a team should be forced into speaking English is ridiculous. If it's such a problem for some then those complaining should sit down and learn a bit of Italian.

#26 BillBald

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 18:23

Actually, the teams consult with me on a host of matters, but don't you worry about that. ; )


Yes, armchair design is not straightforward, it's particularly important to get the right colour.



#27 DrProzac

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 18:25

Nothings wrong with the oil pump.
As I understand it, F1 engines have some kind of a separate reserve for topping up the main oil tank during the race.
Calls to operate the oil transfer are common, but boring enough that you wont hear them on TV.

Thanks for the explenation, I knew some things about the arrangment but I didn't know its a normal procedure.

#28 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 18:56

Lol... No it isn't.. Most of the F1 viewers speak english as their primary or at least secondary language. Italian more rarely... I'm finnish and it pisses me off that they keep playbacking those messages in italian when no one understands single crap. Did you know that english is the "world" language, not Italian.


Many Spanish speakers (Portuguese as well maybe?) will understand it quite ok, I think, and there's lots of those. Edit: and there are far more Spanish and Portuguese native speakers combined than English. Spanish alone has more

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 23 November 2012 - 18:58.


#29 g1n

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:20

My fav this season was..
Danica Patrick: "Fcuk Fcukity Fcuk"
Jp


Do you have a link for it? I couldn't find it on Utube.

#30 darkkis

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 19:30

Many Spanish speakers (Portuguese as well maybe?) will understand it quite ok, I think, and there's lots of those. Edit: and there are far more Spanish and Portuguese native speakers combined than English. Spanish alone has more

Native yeah, combined... not so much. Besides, most of the spanish speaking people live in poor south american countries, and I doubt that they hold that much interest for F1 (except for Brasil..).

#31 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 08:44

Native yeah, combined... not so much. Besides, most of the spanish speaking people live in poor south american countries, and I doubt that they hold that much interest for F1 (except for Brasil..).


I don't understand the "combined ... not so much" part of your first sentence.

Mexicans (from US and from Mexico) seem to have been a major part of the Austin audience. I have no idea about F1 in other south american countries, but what does poverty have to do with fandom? All you need is a TV and maybe internet access, and even poor communities have those. Poor people watch football a lot as well.

Anyway, my point was not the amount of interest there. What I opposed was the view that English is the undisputed world language and that talking in any other language unduly excludes most of the world. It isn't and it doesn't.

Edit: and if you want to talk about total number of speakers (as opposed to native speakers) you are also wrong: http://en.wikipedia....ber_of_speakers
It's the most widely taught language of course, but it's dominance is not such that you could force F1 teams to use it.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 24 November 2012 - 08:53.


#32 sergeym

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:08

Radio is used for communication between driver and pits. It's not for viewers. Besides they are not shown real time anyway, if broadcasters think it is interesting enough they can translate it.

Personally i think they can use any language they want.