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Kimi Raikkonen - Part IV


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#701 2ms

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 18:20

Why? There's lot of past between Ferrari and Kimi Raikkonen. One of the worst back-stabbing episodes. The guy was so upset that he left F1 altogether for two years.


Not really. According to mainstream press, Kimi was bored and wanted to go drive rally. He was the highest paid driver in F1 2010, even though he never stepped on a race track. He took the option of contract buyout. It's amazing how widely people don't know the basics on this.


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#702 eronrules

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 18:26

His contract at Ferrari was through 2010. So of course he had a seat in F1 -- at Ferrari. Santander came along he got offered a contract buyout because they wanted an opening for Alonso but they wanted to keep Massa. It was his choice whether or not he wanted to accept it. These are the facts. There was no anyone getting "fired".



i'm sorry, but where were u in 2009?? earth??? they wanted Alonso to be there since 2008, the contract signed in 2008, but due to performance clause kimi took 2009 option (though ferrari wanted alonso badly in that seat) and they wanted massa in the 2nd seat as santander was sponsoring him already . in 2010, even if kimi wanted to drive, he had to sit out due to alonso being there. so what santander offered was to give a seat at mclaren which would've set kimi back 10 million quids, so kimi was so disgusted with all these crap that he chose to leave f1 altogether. many kimi fans have anger towards ferrari because it's a team that almost ruined perhaps one of the greatest natural born racer's carrer for shits ... we missed 2 years of iceman, now he's back and showing the world what BS ferrari is.

#703 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 18:31

His contract at Ferrari was through 2010. So of course he had a seat in F1 -- at Ferrari. Santander came along he got offered a contract buyout because they wanted an opening for Alonso but they wanted to keep Massa. It was his choice whether or not he wanted to accept it. These are the facts. There was no anyone getting "fired".


Are you implying that Kimi could have raced for Ferrari in 2010, but he chose to take the money and leave? -- If so, we sure have read different history books on this one.

Contract buyout isn't exactly a term I would use when reflecting on the said episode.

#704 Taxi

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 18:50

Are you implying that Kimi could have raced for Ferrari in 2010, but he chose to take the money and leave? -- If so, we sure have read different history books on this one.

Contract buyout isn't exactly a term I would use when reflecting on the said episode.

Actually I believe he's right: Kimi himself said he had a contract and he would drive for Ferrari in 2010 had he wanted. But he knew the team didn't want him and decided to accept the deal. He acted like a true gentleman.


You know, sometimes we forget that this driver is an human being: he has feelings and in that occasion it was clear our boy was suffering. You just need to see the interview post confirmation. In his Ferrari clothes this man was really sad with the way the team treated him. He tried to hide it, but it was not possible.

In that moment, and even if i'm just a guy that he will never meet, i felt sadness with him, and that's also why i'm glad Alonso [who is a different person but i think a respectable one] isn't doing any better than Kimi at Maranello.



#705 darkkis

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:03

Are you implying that Kimi could have raced for Ferrari in 2010, but he chose to take the money and leave? -- If so, we sure have read different history books on this one.

Contract buyout isn't exactly a term I would use when reflecting on the said episode.

Maybe it isn't directly said that it was so, but for example here you hear Kimi implying that:

0:16 --> "There was always different options and then we decided altogether to.. to make this option."

#706 beefree88

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:14

Actually I believe he's right: Kimi himself said he had a contract and he would drive for Ferrari in 2010 had he wanted. But he knew the team didn't want him and decided to accept the deal. He acted like a true gentleman.


You know, sometimes we forget that this driver is an human being: he has feelings and in that occasion it was clear our boy was suffering. You just need to see the interview post confirmation. In his Ferrari clothes this man was really sad with the way the team treated him. He tried to hide it, but it was not possible.

In that moment, and even if i'm just a guy that he will never meet, i felt sadness with him, and that's also why i'm glad Alonso [who is a different person but i think a respectable one] isn't doing any better than Kimi at Maranello.

Well, as he said he felt he drove the best that year. Besides saved the team from embarrasment in the first half of the year, and held the fort almost alone in the second half.He made big efforts to keep them ahead of McLaren. Ferrari bosses took his results as the achievement of the company and let the press bullying him with accusations of being unmotivated etc, and told him they want to replace him before his contract ends. No wonder he felt disillusioned, and considered even giving up racing. I think rally was a great opportunity to regroup and find out what he wants to do

#707 eronrules

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:16

Maybe it isn't directly said that it was so, but for example here you hear Kimi implying that:

0:16 --> "There was always different options and then we decided altogether to.. to make this option."



even if kimi had the option to race in 2010 (highly unlikely, alonso was already in the team thus kimi had to sit out as a 3rd driver anyway), it would've been if Alonso continurd 2008 with mclaren even if the team loathed him ... don't try to molly-coddle what ferrari did.

#708 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:16

Actually I believe he's right: Kimi himself said he had a contract and he would drive for Ferrari in 2010 had he wanted. But he knew the team didn't want him and decided to accept the deal. He acted like a true gentleman.


You know, sometimes we forget that this driver is an human being: he has feelings and in that occasion it was clear our boy was suffering. You just need to see the interview post confirmation. In his Ferrari clothes this man was really sad with the way the team treated him. He tried to hide it, but it was not possible.

In that moment, and even if i'm just a guy that he will never meet, i felt sadness with him, and that's also why i'm glad Alonso [who is a different person but i think a respectable one] isn't doing any better than Kimi at Maranello.


You make some good points, but Kimi had two options offered by Ferrari: $10 million, if he drives for another team or $17 million, if he opted to miss the season. Driver line-up for 2010 was Alonso and Massa. The neat term offered by one of the posters was a contract buyout.

By the way, I am not that stuck on this matter, as what is done is done, but I do like history being told relatively straight. I do not mind at all if Alonso is successful with Ferrari though. He is a top driver -- and, I keep saying this, but -- I am not really a fan of anyone in particular.


#709 beefree88

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:23

Maybe it isn't directly said that it was so, but for example here you hear Kimi implying that:

0:16 --> "There was always different options and then we decided altogether to.. to make this option."

He pretty directly said that he could have stay, but there's no point if you're not wanted. Actually the end of that season kinda proved his point. Ferrari could have kept third place in the championhip, but they rolled all of their resources and put most of their efforts into preparing for Alonso. Kimi was left a bit alone in his fight.

#710 BackOnTop

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:42

Maybe it isn't directly said that it was so, but for example here you hear Kimi implying that:

0:16 --> "There was always different options and then we decided altogether to.. to make this option."

Good one! Raikkonen had this whole thing planned in 2007.

#711 Dsilence

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:43

His contract at Ferrari was through 2010. So of course he had a seat in F1 -- at Ferrari. Santander came along he got offered a contract buyout because they wanted an opening for Alonso but they wanted to keep Massa. It was his choice whether or not he wanted to accept it. These are the facts. There was no anyone getting "fired".



Here is a very detailed blogpost about kimi's struggle with ferrari in 2008.
http://f1bias.com/20...santander-2008/

Worth reading as there are some facts and some interesting stuff to think about. It is a biased blog, so you take it with a bit of salt. However if even part of it is true it's pretty evident Kimi didn't quit because he was bored or unmotivated.





#712 BackOnTop

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:45

the Golden Era continues- The 2012 Season Review
Formula1.com

Reborn as Lotus, the old Renault team restructured around an exciting driver line-up as Raikkonen returned from rally exile, and team boss Eric Boullier brought Grosjean back from the wilderness after he won the 2011 GP2 championship.

That was inspired, and the Lotus E20 (named after the team’s Enstone base and the fact that it was the 20th design to emanate from there) was a very good car. At times, such as in Bahrain, Canada and Hungary it was probably the best car. Raikkonen admits that he should have been more aggressive pushing the change Vettel home in Bahrain, and Grosjean should have won in Valencia but for a faulty alternator.

In the meantime, victory often seemed imminent but somehow it never happened - until Abu Dhabi. There, in one of the best races of the season, Raikkonen finally broke through and set the seal on his comeback with a great victory. 303 points and fourth place overall showed just how far Lotus had come - the only pity was that Robert Kubica was no longer a part of the team too.

#713 BackOnTop

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 19:52

50 things that made the 2012 F1 season great
http://www.f1fanatic...-f1-great-2012/


Kimi Raikkonen’s comeback
Making a comeback as a world champion is a tricky thing to get right – just ask Michael Schumacher. But Kimi Raikkonen was swiftly up to speed at Lotus, was back on the podium within four races and emulated Niki Lauda’s feat of winning a Grand Prix in his comeback season.

Love him or loathe him, Raikkonen’s distinctive personality brings variety to the field. Not to mention he’s a cracking racing driver.


Kimi Raikkonen using James Hunt’s helmet
Very appropriate.

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Edited by BackOnTop, 06 December 2012 - 20:22.


#714 eronrules

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 20:00

50 things that made the 2012 F1 season great
http://www.f1fanatic...-f1-great-2012/


Kimi Raikkonen’s comeback

Making a comeback as a world champion is a tricky thing to get right – just ask Michael Schumacher. But Kimi Raikkonen was swiftly up to speed at Lotus, was back on the podium within four races and emulated Niki Lauda’s feat of winning a Grand Prix in his comeback season.

Love him or loathe him, Raikkonen’s distinctive personality brings variety to the field. Not to mention he’s a cracking racing driver.



lauda jumped into a good car, in a era when there were 3 top teams, the field was wide open and competition not like today. what kimi has achieved in basically 4th fastest car should be remembered as a benchmark of comeback ... just wonder what if he had the mclaren or Red Bull under him ... just wonder :love:

#715 2ms

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 20:36

I'm just amazed at how many people, even his fans, don't have the history straight on Kimi's departure from Ferrari. It's not as if there is any ifs ands or buts. It's very simple. He was offered a contract buyout via Santander money and he took it. If he had wanted, he would have driven in 2010.

The only mystery surrounds how Ferrari could have gone from moving the earth to try to get Kimi out of McLaren, choosing him over every other driver in F1 to the extent that they even pushed out their 7x champion for him, making him the highest paid athlete in the world other than Tiger, to then letting him run off to rally two years later. It certainly wasn't his performance, as he beat everyone in 2007 and led the WDC half the season 2008 till they made design error in front suspension.

I personally believe it is quite evident that he somehow got on the bad side of LdM. As someone living in Italy who, to say the least, has a lot of experience with customs of how people in positions like LdM traditionally expect to be treated, I feel that Kimi would have been extremely difficult for LdM to not feel insulted by. I basically am 100% sure this is the explanation. Besides, of course, the Santander money. Between the bailout money during recession, LdM's ego, and the laughable illogic (particularly considering how much more successful he was than anyone else in last 8 years at Ferrari) of arguments that Kimi didn't succeed enough to keep his job, there is no doubt in my mind that the brevity of Kimi's term at F was dictated by such external factors. It is sad for Ferrari as it is their biggest failing as a team. That they go through these periods of stupidness.

#716 2ms

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 20:47

If Lotus is receiving big cash right now from generous new sponsors, then I am very optimistic for Kimi next year. If they are not, I expect similar to last season, which was still very enjoyable.

If Lotus has big cash for next season, then they can hire in the necessary people to step up the consistency and professionalism of the race operations. The driving and engineering is there. Now they just need better team execution and organization in other areas. Fortunately, if I am correct in my assumptions, such other areas are more readily addressed through relatively quick hiring/firing maneuvers facilitated by enhanced financial strength. It is much more difficult to start building fast cars simply by grafting in new hires. See MGP for example of that. Red Bull went from Lotus-level operations to champions in 1 year by hiring a few key organizational people. Here's hoping Lotus can do the same and that all the best talent in these areas hasn't already been scooped up by MGP and The Big 3.

#717 beefree88

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 21:26

I'm just amazed at how many people, even his fans, don't have the history straight on Kimi's departure from Ferrari. It's not as if there is any ifs ands or buts. It's very simple. He was offered a contract buyout via Santander money and he took it. If he had wanted, he would have driven in 2010.

The only mystery surrounds how Ferrari could have gone from moving the earth to try to get Kimi out of McLaren, choosing him over every other driver in F1 to the extent that they even pushed out their 7x champion for him, making him the highest paid athlete in the world other than Tiger, to then letting him run off to rally two years later. It certainly wasn't his performance, as he beat everyone in 2007 and led the WDC half the season 2008 till they made design error in front suspension.

I personally believe it is quite evident that he somehow got on the bad side of LdM. As someone living in Italy who, to say the least, has a lot of experience with customs of how people in positions like LdM traditionally expect to be treated, I feel that Kimi would have been extremely difficult for LdM to not feel insulted by. I basically am 100% sure this is the explanation. Besides, of course, the Santander money. Between the bailout money during recession, LdM's ego, and the laughable illogic (particularly considering how much more successful he was than anyone else in last 8 years at Ferrari) of arguments that Kimi didn't succeed enough to keep his job, there is no doubt in my mind that the brevity of Kimi's term at F was dictated by such external factors. It is sad for Ferrari as it is their biggest failing as a team. That they go through these periods of stupidness.

It wasn't necessarily personal. He was reportedly just collateral damage. Caught in the crossfire of intra team battle between bosses. Didn't help, that Kimi is totally apolitical

#718 swerved

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 21:34

If Lotus is receiving big cash right now from generous new sponsors, then I am very optimistic for Kimi next year. If they are not, I expect similar to last season, which was still very enjoyable.

If Lotus has big cash for next season, then they can hire in the necessary people to step up the consistency and professionalism of the race operations. The driving and engineering is there. Now they just need better team execution and organization in other areas. Fortunately, if I am correct in my assumptions, such other areas are more readily addressed through relatively quick hiring/firing maneuvers facilitated by enhanced financial strength. It is much more difficult to start building fast cars simply by grafting in new hires. See MGP for example of that. Red Bull went from Lotus-level operations to champions in 1 year by hiring a few key organizational people. Here's hoping Lotus can do the same and that all the best talent in these areas hasn't already been scooped up by MGP and The Big 3.



Lets hope that next years car is at least as good as this years, relative to the others, and with the same levels of reliability, I think Kimi appreciated the fact that he completed every race,

"I have never before made it through races with so little technical problems. There was always something that banged and broke at some point. We drive tests and practices so that we get all possible problems solved. They are supposed to appear in them."

One area that should be able to be improved upon is the pitstops, they ended up the season 5th in the Sky pitstop tables, but only a few points above the 6th placed team, surely thats an area that shouldn't be a drain in financial terms, assuming that the equipment is fairly standard throughout the pitlane and its an area might pay dividends.

It'll be interesting to see just what an impact the new sponsor(s) will have on the livery as well.


#719 swerved

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 21:37

It feels almost like from rags to riches -story. The parents didn´t have no money but they believed that Kimi can make it oneday - and he sure did.



Yeah it does, definitely a case of "The boy did well", and in spite of the fame and fortune his outlook and approach seems hardly to have changed, something to admire. :up:


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#720 bbobeckyj

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 22:06

...
One area that should be able to be improved upon is the pitstops, they ended up the season 5th in the Sky pitstop tables, but only a few points above the 6th placed team, surely thats an area that shouldn't be a drain in financial terms, assuming that the equipment is fairly standard throughout the pitlane and its an area might pay dividends. ...

The equipment isn't standard. Boullier talked about earlier in the season, similar story to the steering rack, they can't afford to develop many things simultaneously.

#721 swerved

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 22:14

The equipment isn't standard. Boullier talked about earlier in the season, similar story to the steering rack, they can't afford to develop many things simultaneously.



Thanks :up: , I dont recall Boulliers comments on that so i must have missed them, obviously some have lights instead of lollipops etc, and/or lollipops with lights but i was thinking more of the guns and the method of securing the wheels etc, I recall at least one, and possibly two races where they were slower in the pitstops than Marussia for instance, I'd find it hard to imagine they have better equipment/systems than Lotus, but you never know, Obviously there are other things to consider, like the driver hitting the marks spot on etc but i can faintly recall the rear jack seeming to be slow going down on a couple of occasions.


#722 eronrules

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 22:49

Thanks :up: , I dont recall Boulliers comments on that so i must have missed them, obviously some have lights instead of lollipops etc, and/or lollipops with lights but i was thinking more of the guns and the method of securing the wheels etc, I recall at least one, and possibly two races where they were slower in the pitstops than Marussia for instance, I'd find it hard to imagine they have better equipment/systems than Lotus, but you never know, Obviously there are other things to consider, like the driver hitting the marks spot on etc but i can faintly recall the rear jack seeming to be slow going down on a couple of occasions.


if i'm not mistaken, lotusF1 doesn't have wheel nut integrated with rim. which most of the top teams have. also design of hydraulic jack and air compressor for wheel gun also makes difference. the front jack of Lotusf1 is primitive compared to say Ferrari's which is slanted so that the front jackman can release the car without jumping out of the way ... etc etc etc

#723 Vesuvius

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 22:52

i'm sorry, but where were u in 2009?? earth??? they wanted Alonso to be there since 2008, the contract signed in 2008, but due to performance clause kimi took 2009 option (though ferrari wanted alonso badly in that seat) and they wanted massa in the 2nd seat as santander was sponsoring him already . in 2010, even if kimi wanted to drive, he had to sit out due to alonso being there. so what santander offered was to give a seat at mclaren which would've set kimi back 10 million quids, so kimi was so disgusted with all these crap that he chose to leave f1 altogether. many kimi fans have anger towards ferrari because it's a team that almost ruined perhaps one of the greatest natural born racer's carrer for shits ... we missed 2 years of iceman, now he's back and showing the world what BS ferrari is.



you are wrong, there was no option. It was completely new contract and this was revealed by Kimi and Ferrari.

#724 Creepy

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 22:59

I see OK if you guys want to talk about Kimi in regards to his past at Ferrari, problem is when you guys bring out Alonso in a demeaning way. I thought this thread wasn't for Kimi's fans to gather and talk about F1 in general, but to talk about Kimi's career only? That's what I read from mods oftenly. I honestly don't understand the diggin on Alonso here, it's unrelated and off-topic!

He was the lucky dude to have a Spanish bank to back him up, that's all.


That's all? Ferrari already wanted him in 2001, in case you didn't know. But what Todt wanted him to do to Giancarlo Minardi made Alonso to choose Flavio, therefore, the traditional bitterness of Todt on Alonso.
So sorry, Kimi being rejected by Ferrari cannot be explained by luck. And unlike some here, I don't say this to put down any driver in particular, I respect Kimi a lot and I'm glad he came back, but the things people tend to say in this thread about Alonso (and some other drivers) is incredibly unfair.


btw, talk about alonso and firing up team moral, isn't it boullier that said alonso was the reason the team lost motivation in developing the car post 2008, it seems kimi is good at firing people up in the team ... go Lotus :wave:


You don't know Boullier? He just needed to blame someone and he did to the guy he never had links with and who was departing from Renault...

Why? There's lot of past between Ferrari and Kimi Raikkonen. One of the worst back-stabbing episodes. The guy was so upset that he left F1 altogether for two years.


Blah blah, read what you're quoting. I didn't say it wasn't OK to bring out Ferrari since Kimi raced for them. My point was about this constant fashion here of talking shit about Ferrari because of their re-newed preference for other driver in 2009. I agree Ferrari wasn't as elegant as they should have been on Kimi, but this doesn't mean their choice was "a stupidity" or "an episode of stupidty" in regards to his replacement as 2ms said.

Edited by Creepy, 06 December 2012 - 23:18.


#725 eronrules

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 23:19

I see OK if you guys want to talk about Kimi in regards to his past at Ferrari, problem is when you guys bring out Alonso in a demeaning way. I thought this thread wasn't for Kimi's fans to gather and talk about F1 in general, but to talk about Kimi's career only? That's what I read from mods oftenly. I honestly don't understand the diggin on Alonso here, it's unrelated and off-topic!



That's all? Ferrari already wanted him in 2001, in case you didn't know. But what Todt wanted him to do to Giancarlo Minardi made Alonso to choose Flavio, therefore, the traditional bitterness of Todt on Alonso.
So sorry, Kimi being rejected by Ferrari cannot be explained by luck. And unlike some here, I don't say this to put down any driver in particular, I respect Kimi a lot and I'm glad he came back, but the things people tend to say in this thread about Alonso (and some other drivers) is incredibly unfair.




You don't know Boullier? He just needed to blame someone and he did to the guy he never had links with and who was departing from Renault...



pardon me. but why do you then posted all these stuff defending alonso in Kimi's thread??? we weren't bashing alonso here, just stating what boullier said. we love kimi and feel that it's wrong the way ferrari handled him. lotus understands him, let's him roam free and just drive the wheel off the car, no politics, no ass licking of LDM, and no samurai quotes. next time any one of us mentions alonso, remind us, but don't post huge ass articles on him.

I agree Ferrari wasn't as elegant as they should have been on Kimi, but this doesn't mean their choice was "a stupidity" or "an episode of stupidty" in regards to his replacement as 2ms said.


on regards to ferrari's choice, i'd just say this, when kimi was there, they chose to follow equality, concentrating on a driver that needs molly coddling instead of a driver who is blindingly fast ... if the team had understood him (and yes, it's failure of the team, not the driver) as proven in 2012, and since 2010, they've put their resources behind one particular driver and made the other one his bitch. i dont' know what 'stupidity' is but letting a talent like kimi waste due to internal favoritism (schumi - massa) is darn stupid i'd say. we don't hold anything against Alonso, but we do hold a lot against santander, SD, LDM.

Edited by eronrules, 06 December 2012 - 23:29.


#726 bbobeckyj

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 23:47

Thanks :up: , I dont recall Boulliers comments on that so i must have missed them, obviously some have lights instead of lollipops etc, and/or lollipops with lights but i was thinking more of the guns and the method of securing the wheels etc, I recall at least one, and possibly two races where they were slower in the pitstops than Marussia for instance, I'd find it hard to imagine they have better equipment/systems than Lotus, but you never know, Obviously there are other things to consider, like the driver hitting the marks spot on etc but i can faintly recall the rear jack seeming to be slow going down on a couple of occasions.

I think that the only equipment which is standard for all teams is the ECU and tyres. Fuel rigs used to be standard (even fuel is different for each team) but their performance doesn't matter anymore.
Maybe someone else with better knowledge can add to that list, or, if you're curious enough you could check the technical regulations on the FIA website.

There is a good documentary on Williams, available on YouTube, in which they show some of their manufacturing process. Essentially they can design any part in a computer, and their machines will cut it from a block of metal or print it, for example. There is no need for them to buy parts from another company. Williams used to be one of the top two or three spenders in the sport, so they may have better facilities than Lotus/Enstone, and I doubt that the back of the grid can do as much. But even if the regulations don't require certain equipment to be standard, there probably isn't anything which is the same (or which the poorer teams coincidentally buy from the same company).

#727 Rybo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:22

Wasn't Kimi paid a kings ransom to not drive in 2010?

#728 2ms

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:50

Wasn't Kimi paid a kings ransom to not drive in 2010?


Yes, he was the highest paid driver in F1 and he signed again with Ferrari to drive in 2010. Unfortunately for Santander, in order to get their own driver/the countryman of their primary market into the team and not have him face driving against Kimi, it was necessary to pay Kimi his entire 2010 wage. If you ask me, not the most impressive use of bank bailout money, but at least it facilitated us seeing Kimi do rally.

#729 motorhead

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:31

Not hijacking, It's just that I'm tired that every single time I decide to visit this thread I see bitching against Alonso. It's been a "one side comment" after "one side comment"... for months.


Don´t feed it yourself either, that is the only way to stop trolling. Of course if that is not want you want, then keep on going  ;)

#730 2ms

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:31

Exactly. When we talk about merits or handicaps of a driver, it's inevitable to talk about others. I always been clear about this: I don't like Alonso [the driver, not the person] but I know he's a fantastic driver a bit better than kimi overall IMO. Funny enough i kind of agree with Domenicali, Alonso is better developing the car and motivating the team. Note that he did not say kimi was bad, he just said Alonso was better.


They are both great drivers and I have the feeling, for example, that kimi in equal circumstances would win 2010 championship if he was at Ferrari and Fernando would have won 2008 at Ferrari. NO one needs to be offended if the Word Alonso/Massa/Hamilton is mentioned here.


Domenicali also said that Kimi is the fastest driver he's ever seen. And as long as everyone seems to want to talk about Alonso, I will just say that I think he along with Hamilton are perhaps the two most overrated drivers in F1, as the only two years of an entire career where he was able to win were the two years he had the very clearly most championship-competitive car on the grid. All the other years he's done either poorly or not as well as others. He got beaten in one of his best seasons by a rookie who has gone on to only barely win a championship once in the 5 years since and was outscored over 3 years by a driver everyone had previously thought was washed up and had been a disappointment in F1. But I would prefer we not let this thread constantly get derailed by Kimi-haters and turned into a discussion of other drivers.

#731 D.M.N.

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:32

Posts removed, including follow-on posts. We have been extremely clear on where the Driver threads currently stand.

This is not a Kimi Raikkonen fan thread. This is a Kimi Raikkonen discussion thread. Positive and negative opinions are welcome here from any user, you do not have to be a 'fan' or 'fanboy' to post in this thread. Anyone with any allegiance may post here and elsewhere.

That applies for any driver thread in this forum. They are not 'fan threads', they are 'discussion threads' where the drivers strengths and weaknesses are discussed. The assumption that this is a 'fan thread' is wrong.

As always, if you have a problem with any of the moderation on this forum, you are welcome to communicate with us privately via PM.

Thank you.

#732 race addicted

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:24

I'm just amazed at how many people, even his fans, don't have the history straight on Kimi's departure from Ferrari. It's not as if there is any ifs ands or buts. It's very simple. He was offered a contract buyout via Santander money and he took it. If he had wanted, he would have driven in 2010.

The only mystery surrounds how Ferrari could have gone from moving the earth to try to get Kimi out of McLaren, choosing him over every other driver in F1 to the extent that they even pushed out their 7x champion for him, making him the highest paid athlete in the world other than Tiger, to then letting him run off to rally two years later. It certainly wasn't his performance, as he beat everyone in 2007 and led the WDC half the season 2008 till they made design error in front suspension.

I personally believe it is quite evident that he somehow got on the bad side of LdM. As someone living in Italy who, to say the least, has a lot of experience with customs of how people in positions like LdM traditionally expect to be treated, I feel that Kimi would have been extremely difficult for LdM to not feel insulted by. I basically am 100% sure this is the explanation. Besides, of course, the Santander money. Between the bailout money during recession, LdM's ego, and the laughable illogic (particularly considering how much more successful he was than anyone else in last 8 years at Ferrari) of arguments that Kimi didn't succeed enough to keep his job, there is no doubt in my mind that the brevity of Kimi's term at F was dictated by such external factors. It is sad for Ferrari as it is their biggest failing as a team. That they go through these periods of stupidness.


Good post. I think you could be right, 'cause I too believe that having a correct hierarchy is much more important in Italy (than in Finland? -atleast much more important to LdM than it is to Räikkönen.)

#733 Wolfie

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:36

I'm just amazed at how many people, even his fans, don't have the history straight on Kimi's departure from Ferrari. It's not as if there is any ifs ands or buts. It's very simple. He was offered a contract buyout via Santander money and he took it. If he had wanted, he would have driven in 2010.

The only mystery surrounds how Ferrari could have gone from moving the earth to try to get Kimi out of McLaren, choosing him over every other driver in F1 to the extent that they even pushed out their 7x champion for him, making him the highest paid athlete in the world other than Tiger, to then letting him run off to rally two years later. It certainly wasn't his performance, as he beat everyone in 2007 and led the WDC half the season 2008 till they made design error in front suspension.

I personally believe it is quite evident that he somehow got on the bad side of LdM. As someone living in Italy who, to say the least, has a lot of experience with customs of how people in positions like LdM traditionally expect to be treated, I feel that Kimi would have been extremely difficult for LdM to not feel insulted by. I basically am 100% sure this is the explanation. Besides, of course, the Santander money. Between the bailout money during recession, LdM's ego, and the laughable illogic (particularly considering how much more successful he was than anyone else in last 8 years at Ferrari) of arguments that Kimi didn't succeed enough to keep his job, there is no doubt in my mind that the brevity of Kimi's term at F was dictated by such external factors. It is sad for Ferrari as it is their biggest failing as a team. That they go through these periods of stupidness.


With all due respect there are many question marks regarding Kimi's departure from Ferrari still hanging in the air. That is also the reason why it always pops up, since so many 'explanations' and 'justifications' were given from many directions and they just kept on changing. The negative adjectives that the media so skillfully connected with Räikkönen, they started living their own life and even people in high positions bought them.

On one hand I'm furious over the way a driver's reputation was so systematically destroyed by the media and others involved, but on the other hand some people had to actually pay for believing in them, lol.

Lopez was convinced that he had been told the truth about Kimi and it makes one wonder who gave that 'information' to him? EB? Anyhow they thought they had come up with a brilliant master plan to get Kimi cheap by basing the contract they made with him on bonuses.

Now Lopez tells how shocked he was when Kimi wasn't supposed to score so many points and how they now are in trouble paying his salary. Did they really believe that Grosjean would get the points and that they would not have to pay much to the 'seen-his-best-days'-driver - EB even told that Kimi is driver nr. 1 when it comes to the media, that he was supposed to bring the attention and practically saying out loud that Grosjean was the future Champion.

How long did it take for Lotus to get rid of the myth they had built around Grosjean? He was 'fast and talented' all season long, it was as if they didn't comprehend how costly RG's so called 'talent' was to them. One front wing costs about 100.000 euros. Not to talk about the other parts he destroyed many times. Didn't they do the math in Lotus?!?

I'm not interested in knowing if a faceless corporation like Ferrari capitalized or not, it's irrelevant. But the smearing campaign went further than that, like I already mentioned how Lotus thought they got Kimi cheap and when remembering how the majority in the paddock and on forums were all singing the same chant about Kimi's non-existent talents. Now the tune has changed and all of a sudden even Domenicali is praising how he always knew Kimi was fast... I remember different statements from him after season 2008, lol.

Kimi coming back to F1 was a big thing, he got the opportunity to come back and prove people wrong and hence all the question marks about his departure aren't that important anymore.

Seriously, there were very few F1-reporters who saw Kimi's talent and didn't fall for the mass brainwash that took place - and I have to take a deep bow to the Kimi-community for not leaving him alone or turning against him, thanks to you guys his retirement years have been much much much easier to live through!

One reason why we still harp on about the sacking from Ferrari is that we were never given truthful answers and justifications - it's the same in every matter in life; if something 'feels' wrong inside of you no matter how it's explained to you, then you either go against yourself and start to believe in the numerous wishy-washy explanations - or you have that nagging feeling inside of you that effectively prevents you from getting a closure so that you can finally move on. Or in my case; I don't care about getting closure anymore, what's done is done and now I can enjoy it when Kimi cleans his smeared reputation on the track. No words needed.

Finally; there was a time when I thought that if I ever hear the word 'unmotivated' again, then I will explode!!!! But even that doesn't bother me anymore. It's word vs. action and the latter wins clearly. But it was sort of surprising to see that even the Lotus-management had fallen for the negative myth built around Kimi. And they are now paying for their mistake.

Sorry for the long rant :blush:

Oh and Wander... thanks for the correction, it was "fluit" but I just couldn't find the word the other day :kiss:


#734 2ms

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:52

Good post. I think you could be right, 'cause I too believe that having a correct hierarchy is much more important in Italy (than in Finland? -atleast much more important to LdM than it is to Räikkönen.)


People like Raikkonen can bewilder some people in Italy. There also can be expectations of how people should treat their bosses. Certain things (in particular I have in mind types of little shows of respect) can be considered absolutely unacceptable even if unrelated to performance of job in itself. Unless LdM had had personal experience with a person from Raikkonen's very different culture before, and been cognizant of how heavily our perceptions are determined by the conventions of the environments in which we have come up, my hunch is that he could have felt very insulted and infuriated by Raikkonen doing things like, for example, he did in the following couple videos.

None of this is to say that I think LdM is stupid and would let personal stuff of the sort cause him to shoot himself in the foot (although I don't rule it out). I only think he was very vulnerable to fresh offers of big money from Santander at a time where financials were a problem area.

(4:24)
Well, I can't find the video of him and LdM after the Brazil win where he basically blows off LdM's invitations to hugging etc -- for Finns I think it is not natural for them to do a lot of touching to people they respect, whereas to LdM I think it was disrespectful that Kimi didn't hug him, but I can't find that video now...

Edited by 2ms, 07 December 2012 - 12:54.


#735 darkkis

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 13:23

People like Raikkonen can bewilder some people in Italy. There also can be expectations of how people should treat their bosses. Certain things (in particular I have in mind types of little shows of respect) can be considered absolutely unacceptable even if unrelated to performance of job in itself. Unless LdM had had personal experience with a person from Raikkonen's very different culture before, and been cognizant of how heavily our perceptions are determined by the conventions of the environments in which we have come up, my hunch is that he could have felt very insulted and infuriated by Raikkonen doing things like, for example, he did in the following couple videos.

None of this is to say that I think LdM is stupid and would let personal stuff of the sort cause him to shoot himself in the foot (although I don't rule it out). I only think he was very vulnerable to fresh offers of big money from Santander at a time where financials were a problem area.

(4:24)
Well, I can't find the video of him and LdM after the Brazil win where he basically blows off LdM's invitations to hugging etc -- for Finns I think it is not natural for them to do a lot of touching to people they respect, whereas to LdM I think it was disrespectful that Kimi didn't hug him, but I can't find that video now...

That's true... I account myself for a typical Finn and it would be completely awkward if my boss would try to hug me... Hell, I don't do that to even my good (male) friends. :rotfl: No wonder Räikkönen felt awkward.

Edited by darkkis, 07 December 2012 - 13:26.


#736 swerved

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 13:37

The best thing to take from Kimi's years at Ferrari is that 5 years after being their latest WDC he's still their last WDC, and that may still be true in another 5 years, no-one knows, but all the other stuff really doesn't matter. :)

#737 The Kanisteri

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 13:56

Swerved,

Out of topic, but your "If the sword breaks, attack with the hands,If they cut off your hands, push the enemy with your shoulders, If they cut off your shoulders then bite the seal off Felipes gearbox with your teeth" made me to burst coffee on work computer. You bastard! :D

Edited by The Kanisteri, 07 December 2012 - 13:56.


#738 Jovanotti

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:04

Swerved,

Out of topic, but your "If the sword breaks, attack with the hands,If they cut off your hands, push the enemy with your shoulders, If they cut off your shoulders then bite the seal off Felipes gearbox with your teeth" made me to burst coffee on work computer. You bastard! :D

Haha, I missed that one :lol:

Thought I'd share this also here: 99 days left til a the new and hopefully great season for our boy in 2013 :up:

Posted Image

#739 SpaMaster

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:08

Blah blah,

What a baeutiful response. Well noted.

read what you're quoting. I didn't say it wasn't OK to bring out Ferrari since Kimi raced for them. My point was about this constant fashion here of talking shit about Ferrari because of their re-newed preference for other driver in 2009. I agree Ferrari wasn't as elegant as they should have been on Kimi, but this doesn't mean their choice was "a stupidity" or "an episode of stupidty" in regards to his replacement as 2ms said.

What is so difficult to understand in this? Kimi fans have every reason to be bitter about Ferrari because of the bad ditching episode. If this is so tough to comprehend, I would just have to assume that you are in some la-la land and decide that there is no point discussing this with you.

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#740 Creepy

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:15

The best thing to take from Kimi's years at Ferrari is that 5 years after being their latest WDC he's still their last WDC, and that may still be true in another 5 years, no-one knows, but all the other stuff really doesn't matter. :)


Taking into account Ferrari's been title contender in 2 years out of the last 3 I would not take as granted that Kimi will be the last Ferrari champion for long. Anyway, I think what's more relevant for Kimi is whether he'll be champion again in the future.

What a baeutiful response. Well noted.

What is so difficult to understand in this? Kimi fans have every reason to be bitter about Ferrari because of the bad ditching episode. If this is so tough to comprehend, I would just have to assume that you are in some la-la land and decide that there is no point discussing this with you.


That wasn't the point, once again, but I think I'm gonna let it go this time. I'll take motorhead tip. :)

Domenicali also said that Kimi is the fastest driver he's ever seen. And as long as everyone seems to want to talk about Alonso, I will just say that I think he along with Hamilton are perhaps the two most overrated drivers in F1, as the only two years of an entire career where he was able to win were the two years he had the very clearly most championship-competitive car on the grid. All the other years he's done either poorly or not as well as others. He got beaten in one of his best seasons by a rookie who has gone on to only barely win a championship once in the 5 years since and was outscored over 3 years by a driver everyone had previously thought was washed up and had been a disappointment in F1. But I would prefer we not let this thread constantly get derailed by Kimi-haters and turned into a discussion of other drivers.


Replied in the Alonso's thread. But seriously, your last part is quite ironical, since it's you who's derailing the thread.

Edited by Creepy, 07 December 2012 - 14:25.


#741 wrcva

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:20

I'm just amazed at how many people, even his fans, don't have the history straight on Kimi's departure from Ferrari. It's not as if there is any ifs ands or buts. It's very simple. He was offered a contract buyout via Santander money and he took it. If he had wanted, he would have driven in 2010.

The only mystery surrounds how Ferrari could have gone from moving the earth to try to get Kimi out of McLaren, choosing him over every other driver in F1 to the extent that they even pushed out their 7x champion for him, making him the highest paid athlete in the world other than Tiger, to then letting him run off to rally two years later. It certainly wasn't his performance, as he beat everyone in 2007 and led the WDC half the season 2008 till they made design error in front suspension.

I personally believe it is quite evident that he somehow got on the bad side of LdM. As someone living in Italy who, to say the least, has a lot of experience with customs of how people in positions like LdM traditionally expect to be treated, I feel that Kimi would have been extremely difficult for LdM to not feel insulted by. I basically am 100% sure this is the explanation. Besides, of course, the Santander money. Between the bailout money during recession, LdM's ego, and the laughable illogic (particularly considering how much more successful he was than anyone else in last 8 years at Ferrari) of arguments that Kimi didn't succeed enough to keep his job, there is no doubt in my mind that the brevity of Kimi's term at F was dictated by such external factors. It is sad for Ferrari as it is their biggest failing as a team. That they go through these periods of stupidness.


I'll try to fill in the blanks... technically it did appear like he could have stayed at Ferrari for 2010, but I think he exercised the extension option for 2010 after he could not settle with them (Ferrari/Santander) for leaving at the end of 2008. it was more like a legal maneuvering on his part to gain better negotiation position because he knew it was over with Ferrari by the end of Sept 2008. He fulfilled the auto renewal condition in his original contract (wdc points > ~ 42) by the end of June 08, post French GP, but he did not exercise the option until the renewal deadline ~ mid Sep, as he was negotiating to leave by the end of 2008 (yes, a year earlier than his original contract to give the seat to Fred as soon as he could), provided they paid up. In addition to what you said in your 3rd paragraph, his relationship with LdM went south after he triggered the 2010 extension (because - speculating on amounts -- they could not agree on full 2009 pay + additional year's pay as severance). So, LdM did not want him to trigger the renewal but settle for less than two years pay -- even though it was within Kimi's rights to unilaterally take the option given his WDC point accumulation but they could not agree over $. If you look at Fred's press statements between July-Sep 08 he was referring to September for deciding where he will drive (Renault vs. Ferrari) for 2009, when significance of Sep was only relevant to Kimi's contract. So, LdM, Santander and Fred were waiting to see what Kimi would do by the Sep deadline. After they could not reach an agreement, the whole thing (Ferrari leave) was pushed another year but as a part of his Sep 08 negotiations for driving another year (2009), and not driving in 2010 despite having a recently renewed contract, among other things, he had Ferrari remove restrictions on other sports activities (rallying permission). Time crunch is interesting that everything was shaped by the September date after Fred's signing in Monaco which was a bit surprise to Kimi because he just won the WDC 6 months ago and was leading in WDC points coming out of Turkish GP (May 11 2008).

That also is the point, I think, Ferrari/Santander counteroffer for 2009 departure terms were put on the table. option 1) 2 year full pay (2010+severance) provided he walked away from F1 for 1.5 years. option 2) 1 years pay (2010) + some severance + get the McLaren seat. I think the delta was 17-25M (speculating). LdM was not pleased with any of this and at one point in 2009 he even said he'll be happy if Kimi just shows up for races. I presume that was a part of their PR strategy, keep reiterating his lack of motivation issues for the upcoming Alonso move. After Massa's accident they tried to go easy on anti-Kimi PR. In any event, Kimi did not like the Santander bundle idea (Ferrari leave + Mclaren seat in the same package), so he took option 1. So, contrary to belief, McLaren seat issue was a part of discussions in 2008, but did not surface until the end of 2009, and was a tentative situation for McLaren to facilitate Santander request. If you recall, because option 2 created a "Santander subsidized seat" situation for other teams (other than McLaren), Brawn also showed interest around Button negotiations, for getting Kimi 1/2 price. Robertsons were not amused with Brawn's opportunistic approach...

I think by the end of 2008 he was mentally drained, so he probably said the hell with you and F1 decided to go rallying. In that context, 2009 was a cold war year in Ferrari for both sides, hating each other but still living in the same house. That said, officially, as far as Ferrari or Santander releases none of this stuff took place in 2008 but late 2009, so the whole thing is like a maze. Either way, Kimi's moves, and agreements (end of 2009 leave, rallying so on...) were final by the end of Sept 08, to be announced at various points in 2009. :drunk: As Bernie says, it really is a circus, and (I guess) all F1 followers (us) are the clowns for believing in their PR... given the amount of politics and non-racing background stuff that goes on in secrecy, it is not that surprising that people have difficulty sifting through what is real, what is planted misinformation to paint their version of reality. If you keep saying the same thing 4000 times -- "stick with the message" -- people eventually start believing in it, see it as a fact... here is a James Allen's Nov, 2009 article on the Kimi problem...


#742 bsrf1

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:46

After all he is doing the job for the company and it is an expected reaction (assuming the four letter word is not any disrespect) if any one comes and disturb you even if the other heads the company. If boss expects some thing different it does mean that boss wants every one work for him than to the company, which is unacceptable in professional terms.

#743 primus

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:46

I'll try to fill in the blanks... technically it did appear like he could have stayed at Ferrari for 2010, but I think he exercised the extension option for 2010 after he could not settle with them (Ferrari/Santander) for leaving at the end of 2008. it was more like a legal maneuvering on his part to gain better negotiation position because he knew it was over with Ferrari by the end of Sept 2008. He fulfilled the auto renewal condition in his original contract (wdc points > ~ 42) by the end of June 08, post French GP, but he did not exercise the option until the renewal deadline ~ mid Sep, as he was negotiating to leave by the end of 2008 (yes, a year earlier than his original contract to give the seat to Fred as soon as he could), provided they paid up. In addition to what you said in your 3rd paragraph, his relationship with LdM went south after he triggered the 2010 extension (because - speculating on amounts -- they could not agree on full 2009 pay + additional year's pay as severance). So, LdM did not want him to trigger the renewal but settle for less than two years pay -- even though it was within Kimi's rights to unilaterally take the option given his WDC point accumulation but they could not agree over $. If you look at Fred's press statements between July-Sep 08 he was referring to September for deciding where he will drive (Renault vs. Ferrari) for 2009, when significance of Sep was only relevant to Kimi's contract. So, LdM, Santander and Fred were waiting to see what Kimi would do by the Sep deadline. After they could not reach an agreement, the whole thing (Ferrari leave) was pushed another year but as a part of his Sep 08 negotiations for driving another year (2009), and not driving in 2010 despite having a recently renewed contract, among other things, he had Ferrari remove restrictions on other sports activities (rallying permission). Time crunch is interesting that everything was shaped by the September date after Fred's signing in Monaco which was a bit surprise to Kimi because he just won the WDC 6 months ago and was leading in WDC points coming out of Turkish GP (May 11 2008).

That also is the point, I think, Ferrari/Santander counteroffer for 2009 departure terms were put on the table. option 1) 2 year full pay (2010+severance) provided he walked away from F1 for 1.5 years. option 2) 1 years pay (2010) + some severance + get the McLaren seat. I think the delta was 17-25M (speculating). LdM was not pleased with any of this and at one point in 2009 he even said he'll be happy if Kimi just shows up for races. I presume that was a part of their PR strategy, keep reiterating his lack of motivation issues for the upcoming Alonso move. After Massa's accident they tried to go easy on anti-Kimi PR. In any event, Kimi did not like the Santander bundle idea (Ferrari leave + Mclaren seat in the same package), so he took option 1. So, contrary to belief, McLaren seat issue was a part of discussions in 2008, but did not surface until the end of 2009, and was a tentative situation for McLaren to facilitate Santander request. If you recall, because option 2 created a "Santander subsidized seat" situation for other teams (other than McLaren), Brawn also showed interest around Button negotiations, for getting Kimi 1/2 price. Robertsons were not amused with Brawn's opportunistic approach...

I think by the end of 2008 he was mentally drained, so he probably said the hell with you and F1 decided to go rallying. In that context, 2009 was a cold war year in Ferrari for both sides, hating each other but still living in the same house. That said, officially, as far as Ferrari or Santander releases none of this stuff took place in 2008 but late 2009, so the whole thing is like a maze. Either way, Kimi's moves, and agreements (end of 2009 leave, rallying so on...) were final by the end of Sept 08, to be announced at various points in 2009. :drunk: As Bernie says, it really is a circus, and (I guess) all F1 followers (us) are the clowns for believing in their PR... given the amount of politics and non-racing background stuff that goes on in secrecy, it is not that surprising that people have difficulty sifting through what is real, what is planted misinformation to paint their version of reality. If you keep saying the same thing 4000 times -- "stick with the message" -- people eventually start believing in it, see it as a fact... here is a James Allen's Nov, 2009 article on the Kimi problem...


Good post, I think we will only know the full truth if Kimi/others want to open up this when he is fully retired! :)

#744 swerved

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 15:27

Swerved,

Out of topic, but your "If the sword breaks, attack with the hands,If they cut off your hands, push the enemy with your shoulders, If they cut off your shoulders then bite the seal off Felipes gearbox with your teeth" made me to burst coffee on work computer. You bastard! :D




:lol: :up: Thats cool, F1 drivers surely dont do themselves any favours with all these profound statements.

#745 Vesuvius

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 16:56

I'll try to fill in the blanks... technically it did appear like he could have stayed at Ferrari for 2010, but I think he exercised the extension option for 2010 after he could not settle with them (Ferrari/Santander) for leaving at the end of 2008. it was more like a legal maneuvering on his part to gain better negotiation position because he knew it was over with Ferrari by the end of Sept 2008. He fulfilled the auto renewal condition in his original contract (wdc points > ~ 42) by the end of June 08, post French GP, but he did not exercise the option until the renewal deadline ~ mid Sep, as he was negotiating to leave by the end of 2008 (yes, a year earlier than his original contract to give the seat to Fred as soon as he could), provided they paid up. In addition to what you said in your 3rd paragraph, his relationship with LdM went south after he triggered the 2010 extension (because - speculating on amounts -- they could not agree on full 2009 pay + additional year's pay as severance). So, LdM did not want him to trigger the renewal but settle for less than two years pay -- even though it was within Kimi's rights to unilaterally take the option given his WDC point accumulation but they could not agree over $. If you look at Fred's press statements between July-Sep 08 he was referring to September for deciding where he will drive (Renault vs. Ferrari) for 2009, when significance of Sep was only relevant to Kimi's contract. So, LdM, Santander and Fred were waiting to see what Kimi would do by the Sep deadline. After they could not reach an agreement, the whole thing (Ferrari leave) was pushed another year but as a part of his Sep 08 negotiations for driving another year (2009), and not driving in 2010 despite having a recently renewed contract, among other things, he had Ferrari remove restrictions on other sports activities (rallying permission). Time crunch is interesting that everything was shaped by the September date after Fred's signing in Monaco which was a bit surprise to Kimi because he just won the WDC 6 months ago and was leading in WDC points coming out of Turkish GP (May 11 2008).

That also is the point, I think, Ferrari/Santander counteroffer for 2009 departure terms were put on the table. option 1) 2 year full pay (2010+severance) provided he walked away from F1 for 1.5 years. option 2) 1 years pay (2010) + some severance + get the McLaren seat. I think the delta was 17-25M (speculating). LdM was not pleased with any of this and at one point in 2009 he even said he'll be happy if Kimi just shows up for races. I presume that was a part of their PR strategy, keep reiterating his lack of motivation issues for the upcoming Alonso move. After Massa's accident they tried to go easy on anti-Kimi PR. In any event, Kimi did not like the Santander bundle idea (Ferrari leave + Mclaren seat in the same package), so he took option 1. So, contrary to belief, McLaren seat issue was a part of discussions in 2008, but did not surface until the end of 2009, and was a tentative situation for McLaren to facilitate Santander request. If you recall, because option 2 created a "Santander subsidized seat" situation for other teams (other than McLaren), Brawn also showed interest around Button negotiations, for getting Kimi 1/2 price. Robertsons were not amused with Brawn's opportunistic approach...

I think by the end of 2008 he was mentally drained, so he probably said the hell with you and F1 decided to go rallying. In that context, 2009 was a cold war year in Ferrari for both sides, hating each other but still living in the same house. That said, officially, as far as Ferrari or Santander releases none of this stuff took place in 2008 but late 2009, so the whole thing is like a maze. Either way, Kimi's moves, and agreements (end of 2009 leave, rallying so on...) were final by the end of Sept 08, to be announced at various points in 2009. :drunk: As Bernie says, it really is a circus, and (I guess) all F1 followers (us) are the clowns for believing in their PR... given the amount of politics and non-racing background stuff that goes on in secrecy, it is not that surprising that people have difficulty sifting through what is real, what is planted misinformation to paint their version of reality. If you keep saying the same thing 4000 times -- "stick with the message" -- people eventually start believing in it, see it as a fact... here is a James Allen's Nov, 2009 article on the Kimi problem...


Once again there never ever was any option for 2010, it was a completely new contract Ferrari and Kimi did. This was confirmed by Steve Robertson, Kimi and Luca Colajanni from Ferrari.

For 2010 kimi wanted McLaren deal but it didn't happend and he decided to go rally and turned down Red Bull and Mercedes deals.


#746 eronrules

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 17:07

Once again there never ever was any option for 2010, it was a completely new contract Ferrari and Kimi did. This was confirmed by Steve Robertson, Kimi and Luca Colajanni from Ferrari.

For 2010 kimi wanted McLaren deal but it didn't happend and he decided to go rally and turned down Red Bull and Mercedes deals.


as WRCVA :kiss: said, everyone back then wanted to take advantage of getting kimi cheaply , perhaps fueled by continuous kimi-motivation talks, no wonder kimi mentions forced to sign contract stuff these days, he must've been referring to those days. he was bitter by all the BS. i still genuinely believe whitmarsh admires kimi and would want to have him in macca. but i'd wanna see him in the RB alongside SV battling and rattling him and winning WDC :cool:


#747 Raikkonen94

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:55

Kimi at FIA Gala in Istanbul, Turkey, to celebrate his P3 in the Drivers' Championship. Our Kimster is looking good as always!


Posted Image

Posted Image




#748 eronrules

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:04

Kimi at FIA Gala in Istanbul, Turkey, to celebrate his P3 in the Drivers' Championship. Our Kimster is looking good as always!



:up: :love:

he's looking much younger for some reason. nice to see him and Todt getting along.

Btw, who's the Snob looking bloke in the middle of kimi and latvala???

#749 Aateli

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:07

:up: :love:

he's looking much younger for some reason. nice to see him and Todt getting along.

Btw, who's the Snob looking bloke in the middle of kimi and latvala???


I think that's Juho Hänninen, finnish rally driver. With shorter hair.

Kimi looking good as always. Shame he can't drink tonight since he's going to snowmobile race tomorrow. Or can he?

#750 artista

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:07

:up: :love:

he's looking much younger for some reason. nice to see him and Todt getting along.

Btw, who's the Snob looking bloke in the middle of kimi and latvala???

Did you just called Juho Hänninen "snob"?
Ehem!

PS. yes, it's Juho Hänninen, also a rally driver